TvT has to be my most boring and worst matchup in S.C. right now. The games are always so long and tedious, and all I usually end up doing is mass expanding and hoping to outlast him money wise.

I would like some tips/strategies on this matchup. Sometimes I try a quick cloak wraith rush, which works sometimes, but you get siege-mode late and leaves you vulnerable earlier. Are there any interesting strats/tricks you use in this matchup or just general tips you can give me.

Thanks.

Rekrul

Korea (South)17174 Posts

June 29 2003 15:04 GMT

I haven't seen them, but download the Elky vs. FroZ replays. Copy them! <--Cyrax Logic

Personally I think TvT is one of the best MU's in the game.

bASesinAtOR

Bhutan1295 Posts

June 29 2003 15:05 GMT

harass, secure your expands, don't let him be a dousche and mass contain..

NoNameLoser

United States1508 Posts

June 29 2003 15:24 GMT

tvt is the most chess related MU in the game, if you have a problem.....

ImaGe

Netherlands233 Posts

June 29 2003 15:30 GMT

TvT is about outsmarting your opponent

Cresfy

Israel977 Posts

June 29 2003 15:37 GMT

agreed, TvT is the best of the same race match ups, as it requires the most.. Understanding? I can't really think of a word that would fit

ZyPhReX

1192 Posts

June 29 2003 15:52 GMT

Non stop pressure. Securing expos. Recon is also VERY imperitive if you're to have succesful attacks. Watching reps as Rek mentioned is a good suggestion if you really have no clue.

pheered.user

United States2603 Posts

June 29 2003 16:15 GMT

On June 30 2003 00:37 Cresfy wrote:
agreed, TvT is the best of the same race match ups, as it requires the most.. Understanding? I can't really think of a word that would fit

zergvszerg is about 20x better than terran vs terran

lastscv

Australia1 Post

June 29 2003 16:27 GMT

i love tvt
i recommend to be mobile n change strat constantly
eg.2 fac vults,then tanks,then wraiths

tvt gas is most important,n most the time game ends with bc

Eatme

Switzerland3919 Posts

June 29 2003 16:41 GMT

#10

TvT is one of the funniest match ups in the game. I would say anything mech works depending on maps. A classic is goliaths and dropships.

InFiNitY[pG]

Germany3474 Posts

June 29 2003 16:53 GMT

#11

imo there are 4 good starts
2port wraiths
2fac gols+drop
fast expand
2fac vultures

from there on it's just about experience, cleverness and micro/macro

roCh

Sweden870 Posts

June 29 2003 17:02 GMT

#12

i like 2 port wraith. =)
but i hardly play tvt..

collegeBored

United States1524 Posts

June 29 2003 17:07 GMT

#13

On June 30 2003 01:15 PheeRed.User wrote:

Show nested quote +

zergvszerg is about 20x better than terran vs terran

hows zvz a good matchup? its boring as hell and not flexible at all, muta/ling are the only 2 units used in the whole game?

Morphling13

United States7 Posts

June 29 2003 17:12 GMT

#14

Concerning the harrassment, or attacking. Their tanks are already in siege so you cannot really move yours up. With turrets and/or goliaths w/range, dropping is tough. So the matchup is basically a stalemate; the map gets divided up with tanks marking the borders, until somebody breaks through. I find this to be the case in most of my games (I'm far from pro, but pretty good), and I find it boring

.

Thank you all for the tips. I'll try to harrass more with dropships and use more control. Normally I just double expand, and slowly push my way into his base (crossmap), which is just long and tedious. I'll take up more aggressive tactics. Keep the tips/strats coming!

MPXMX

Canada4309 Posts

June 29 2003 18:43 GMT

#15

Morphling13, you say the game is a stalemate... well it eventually comes out of the stalemate when one or both players get BCs, because once players have a fair amount of bcs, one mistake, lost battle, miscalculated attack, and you basically lose the game. The point is not to let your opponent to put you into that stalemate - deny expansion, while expanding on your own. If you cannot finish him with harass early on and big drops in middle game, and you ARE brought into the position where it's very hard to attack by ground or drops, and both you and your opponent are stuck with many expansions, get cruisers and the situation will change in the near 15 minutes - for sure. I think TvT is the longest-lasting (on average) match-up in the game. You'll have to get used to that aspect of it or play dangerously aggressively.

PheeRed.User, thank you for stating your opinion (afterall that's all the "evidence" you can provide in this kind of argument) but just for your note, zvz about 99% of the time uses 4 units - drones, lings, scourges, and mutas. TvT has more difference between games and can feature all terran units except, maybe, firebats and medics, on often occassions.

Crash[tw]

United States58 Posts

June 29 2003 18:52 GMT

#16

ive seen nada use medics for restore vs lockdown
=)

HovZ

United States1917 Posts

June 29 2003 19:36 GMT

#17

morphling v certian players yes it is boring and tedious because they simply take their nat and an island and turtle till they have some bcs.

but most bette rplayers know that wont get them a win v a good player and they play properly, my tvts v most players are never stalemates. its hard to give tips and strategies in general for tvt cuz its not an MU with set strats like tvp or tvz, if u can narrow it down a bit to some scenarios i can help u out

DarkIceWolf

Canada2 Posts

June 29 2003 19:50 GMT

#18

Morphling13 it all depands on you oppent if you both are at the same skill level then most likely it will end up as tank work and drawing of line on the battle field but this in it self can be fun beucase you have to realy thing of a way to win. but some TvT arnt lonf if you play extremly aggresive means 4 min into the game you start to attack with a tank or two if on lt you could start hiting you oppents gass from the side and do a denial on resource's stagey keep him boxed in
ontill you can over power you oppent .

proefkonijntje

Netherlands92 Posts

June 30 2003 05:56 GMT

#19

2 factory vults makes for an interesting highspeed opening that might
win you the game fast and you can change it into a tank contain/mass expand
if a straightforward kill is stopped. or when he has a wallin you
still have the option to go the standard gol drop.

the standard gol drop that is very cool versus a double sp wraith
usually advisable to keep it in the air defensively vs a mirror build(take range in
this case; for an easy advantage) its somewhat weak vs a tankpush -contain
build but if you threaten his base to keep him from bringing all
forces to your base then return you can deal with it and still be
ok.

from the standard gol drop you slide very easily into a 3 dropship
4 tank/4 gol attack force that brings you to an interesting aspect
of tvt. the placement of your drops. scanner sweep is very nice
(make sure to scan right before arriving not way ahead; that will
be devastating to your drops from time to time) try to drop his factories
or the spot between his main and expand. many times defense is on the
side of the expansion ridge.

switching tech from mainly tank to wraith midgame is also nice.

Casper...

Liberia4948 Posts

June 30 2003 06:19 GMT

#20

tanks beat gols
gols beat vults
vults beat tanks
(in general)

dropships
wraiths
seige
expansions
(are we having fun yet?)

micro
timing
economy
mass
(i bet you're having fun now)

N.sL)_CirCle

New Zealand478 Posts

June 30 2003 06:54 GMT

#21

Im Mostly P player, but TVT IS the best MU in the game, it is total strategy art. every move has to be calculated, the fight (esp early to mid game) is very important. If you are sitting on ur ass powering all game you are doing something fundamentally wrong :O

**I think scouting is vitally important (as with all MU's but in tvt its an area that alot of players drop off in - they think they can predict). Dont just scan the persons base, constantly scan seige lines, cliffs, exps and regular dropship paths.

**Learn how to micro properly in tvt, this is very important, especially early/mid game when gas is critical and units can be wasted

**Learn the unit vs unit strenghts/weaknesses

I think a major reason ppl find tvt boring is because they dont understand it; micro, scanning and lots of other techniques are completely different in tvt so the typically executed tank push/cliff drop dosnt work the same in this matchup.

Watch lots of MODERN tvt reps, you wont see a single idle moment. take note of the areas people scan, the micro techniques, what each player takes as a signal to move up the tech tree.

PunkSkeleton

Poland226 Posts

June 30 2003 11:54 GMT

#22

How should I micro properly in TvT? I just don't untderstand it

.
What should I do against mass turret users (I really hate them)?

Yarertz

Djibouti1891 Posts

June 30 2003 12:02 GMT

#23

do some tankz and use cliffs ;p

Bleww

United States1080 Posts

June 30 2003 12:56 GMT

#24

vultures do not beat tanks, mines do.

FridayLove

United States1478 Posts

July 01 2003 20:14 GMT

#25

Bleww you have the _MOST_ homosexual profile I have ever seen.

DV8

United States1623 Posts

July 01 2003 20:23 GMT

#26

HovZ is right, the MU is more about terran intuition than anything and the only general piece of advice I can think of is, Gas is good :D, Yeah I know its lame advice...

l2uShMarine

United States168 Posts

July 01 2003 21:04 GMT

#27

if they mass turret a island i build a building that i already have/that is cheap as close as i can to the island, then wait until i got enough drop / units to kill the expo , send ur building over the turret, it will distract the turrets until building is dead,by that time most of ur units have been dropped