EPTFlash vs Jaedong Rivalry Explored - Page 2
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Peeano
Netherlands5928 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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ruypture
United States367 Posts
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Jealous
10391 Posts
"There were no other players that could consistently match Flash or Jaedong in their prime – at best, a map or series here and there, but nothing more." Looking at Bisu and Stork's record vs. Flash and Jaedong, it is clear that they "consistently matched Flash or Jaedong." I do appreciate the history you told and that you painted a great picture, helped along with the inclusion of Bisu, Stork, Savior, Boxer, Yellow, etc. for comparison. I think this is a great post. Thank you for this! | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4188 Posts
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1170 Posts
On January 16 2017 11:38 FlaShFTW wrote: if there's a power outage i will fly to korea and slap whoever is doing the circuit systems in that building. Could say you'd be blaming it on a Circuit Breaker 7 years since Korean Air S2 finals; I'm not going to resist the hype at all. Hopefully there'll be at least one memorable game. Almost relevant NukeTheStars hype: + Show Spoiler + | ||
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okum
France5779 Posts
On January 16 2017 09:09 duke91 wrote: Jaedong vs Flash is what Jangbi vs Fantasy could have been That was never going to be more entertaining than Fantasy vs Calm, aka "the poor man's Flash vs Jaedong". | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On January 16 2017 12:47 Jealous wrote: I do believe you don't give enough credit to Bisu and Stork in your closing statement: "There were no other players that could consistently match Flash or Jaedong in their prime – at best, a map or series here and there, but nothing more." Looking at Bisu and Stork's record vs. Flash and Jaedong, it is clear that they "consistently matched Flash or Jaedong." I do appreciate the history you told and that you painted a great picture, helped along with the inclusion of Bisu, Stork, Savior, Boxer, Yellow, etc. for comparison. I think this is a great post. Thank you for this! During Flash's 6 straight finals, Bisu wasn't able to make it past the Ro16 a single time. Stork did better in individual leagues, but the one time he did make it to the semis, he was knocked out by Jaedong. From September 2009 to September 2010, when Flash and Jaedong made a combined 10 finals (excluding WCG), Bisu played Flash and Jaedong a single time each, losing to Flash and beating Jaedong. Stork played Flash 3 games, going 1-2, and played Jaedong 6 times, going 3-3. Yes, Bisu and Stork took games off Flash and Jaedong, and on very rare occasion even took a series, as the article said. But, if you look at the grand scheme of things, it was Flash and Jaedong who were consistently making finals, while Bisu for years only saw success in Proleague, and the few times Stork faced Flash or Jaedong in a Bo5, he lost every time. | ||
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Jeremy Reimer
Canada1225 Posts
To see these two legends battling each other again in the ASL is just awesome. I know Jaedong is an underdog but I want him to win so badly, I can't even describe it. Thanks for the article! I'm looking forward to the next one! | ||
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Jealous
10391 Posts
On January 16 2017 14:07 GolemMadness wrote: During Flash's 6 straight finals, Bisu wasn't able to make it past the Ro16 a single time. Stork did better in individual leagues, but the one time he did make it to the semis, he was knocked out by Jaedong. From September 2009 to September 2010, when Flash and Jaedong made a combined 10 finals (excluding WCG), Bisu played Flash and Jaedong a single time each, losing to Flash and beating Jaedong. Stork played Flash 3 games, going 1-2, and played Jaedong 6 times, going 3-3. Yes, Bisu and Stork took games off Flash and Jaedong, and on very rare occasion even took a series, as the article said. But, if you look at the grand scheme of things, it was Flash and Jaedong who were consistently making finals, while Bisu for years only saw success in Proleague, and the few times Stork faced Flash or Jaedong in a Bo5, he lost every time. Neither the original quote nor I argued that Flash and JaeDong weren't far more successful in individual leagues in the time period of their dominance. The quote asserts that no one could see them eye-to-eye, which is simply untrue when you consider that Stork has a winning record against Jaedong, for example (I'm on mobile so I can't check, but I feel like Bisu does as well; at worst it's very close to 50%). My point is that having 50%+ win rate against Jaedong and Flash over the course of 20+ games should qualify those players as consistently matching them. Jaedong and Flash already have enough to brag about, as you pointed out; there is no need to spread untrue statements that diminish the presence and victories of other players. | ||
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maitiky
Czech Republic54 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2755 Posts
On January 16 2017 15:19 Jealous wrote: "There were no other players that could consistently match Flash or Jaedong in their prime – at best, a map or series here and there, but nothing more."Neither the original quote nor I argued that Flash and JaeDong weren't far more successful in individual leagues in the time period of their dominance. The quote asserts that no one could see them eye-to-eye, which is simply untrue when you consider that Stork has a winning record against Jaedong, for example (I'm on mobile so I can't check, but I feel like Bisu does as well; at worst it's very close to 50%). My point is that having 50%+ win rate against Jaedong and Flash over the course of 20+ games should qualify those players as consistently matching them. Jaedong and Flash already have enough to brag about, as you pointed out; there is no need to spread untrue statements that diminish the presence and victories of other players. I believe the writer referred to Jaedong & Flash's ability to repeatedly go deep in tournaments. Back in their prime, J&F were a given in Top 4 of every OSL and MSL. At the same time. Sure if you look strictly at H2H records then Stork = or > every other TBLS. Stardust (m18m) had a winning H2h against Flash. ForGG had a winning H2h against Jaedong. H2H only speaks for the matchup | ||
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Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
 If somebody still has that video, i would be happy..... | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1030 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21247 Posts
On January 16 2017 15:19 Jealous wrote: Neither the original quote nor I argued that Flash and JaeDong weren't far more successful in individual leagues in the time period of their dominance. The quote asserts that no one could see them eye-to-eye, which is simply untrue when you consider that Stork has a winning record against Jaedong, for example (I'm on mobile so I can't check, but I feel like Bisu does as well; at worst it's very close to 50%). My point is that having 50%+ win rate against Jaedong and Flash over the course of 20+ games should qualify those players as consistently matching them. Jaedong and Flash already have enough to brag about, as you pointed out; there is no need to spread untrue statements that diminish the presence and victories of other players. All games are not created equal. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On January 16 2017 15:19 Jealous wrote: Neither the original quote nor I argued that Flash and JaeDong weren't far more successful in individual leagues in the time period of their dominance. The quote asserts that no one could see them eye-to-eye, which is simply untrue when you consider that Stork has a winning record against Jaedong, for example (I'm on mobile so I can't check, but I feel like Bisu does as well; at worst it's very close to 50%). My point is that having 50%+ win rate against Jaedong and Flash over the course of 20+ games should qualify those players as consistently matching them. Jaedong and Flash already have enough to brag about, as you pointed out; there is no need to spread untrue statements that diminish the presence and victories of other players. Neither Stork nor Bisu played 20+ games against Flash or Jaedong when they were in their prime. Being able to consistently match someone means that you're going deep in the same tournaments that they are, and at least occasionally beating them. Neither Bisu nor Stork were able to do this. Sure, Bisu and Stork performed well against Jaedong in regular season Proleague games, and Stork even managed to knock Jaedong out of WCG one time. However, winning some regular season Proleague games is the very definition of taking a map here and there. Can you really say that someone who for years couldn't make it past the Ro16 was consistently matching the players who were making every final just because of a few regular season Proleague games? Incidentally, once Flash began his prime in the 2009-2010 season, his record was 4-2 against Bisu, and 7-2 against Stork. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24604 Posts
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