I've had this theory for some time now, and have not expressed it until now. I'm not sure if any of you others have ever wondered what an overlord exactly does, and how it sustains the Zerg armies, such that more overlords are required for a hive to expand.
I always assumed that overlords emitted psi, a psychic energy which comes up often in Starcraft lore. I assumed that they, like the Overmind and like Kerrigan, sent out some kind of brain waves that keep Zerg armies informed and purposed and conscious and moving. Perhaps they do that as well.
I've also looked it up online just now, and some lore, not sure whether official, has it that Zerg somehow absorb nutrients through the creep. My little cousin was watching me play the other year and I told him some version of "I dunno. They just fly around and do stuff." I've since wondered how it might be better explained in a way which is interesting, imaginative, gross as the Zerg ought to be, and which actually sort of makes sense.
What I've come up with is that overlords are giant flying space squids (obviously), and their tentacles that hang down like spaghetti hair are actually feeding tubes. You see, the overlord vigilantly floats overhead, miles high in the sky, perhaps, like a meaty hot air balloon, and it stays with the armies. When the workers and the soldiers get hungry, they reach up their sucking little bug lips and grab a tentacle tit, and draw forth sweet essence. Sometimes they are able to do this without even stopping their work, as if they had a beer helmet full of meat puree.
This is one of the many ways the Zerg are such efficient, such graceless, such prideless, such voracious killing machines.
Maybe ZergNeedsFood knows more about this. His username suggests he's been contemplating this issue for an extended period of time, but you seem to be on to something. If they need to travel through the vastness of space, and can't take creep with them, overlords seem like the only option of transporting and supplying the swarm with nourishment.
On November 15 2016 17:46 zobz wrote: I've also looked it up online just now, and some lore, not sure whether official, has it that Zerg somehow absorb nutrients through the creep.
That's even explained in the good old StarCraft manual and in the Zerg Campaign (the first mission it is, i think). Which is the reason why Zerg structures can only be built on creep because it gives the living organisms aka buildings the nutrients they need. Which again is why in SC2 Zerg structures end up dying when there's no creep providing structure around anymore.
On November 15 2016 19:53 Jae Zedong wrote: I'm more interested in how Zerg can fly through open space. How do they propel themselves?
IIRC they found small space-faring animals that could generate wormholes and assimilated them into the hive, enlarging them in the process to use as transports.
Must be some sort of sailing on cosmic, hyperspace-particle winds they anchor themselves to by generating the necessary anchorage molecules in their cell structure. One thing is floating through space, with moderate propulsion, but traveling at multiples of c to actually get somewhere within a reasonable timeframe is something else entirely.
Maybe zerg are a rip-off of the biological race which the borg were losing to, at one point, in star trek next gen and probably voyager, and we should ask Eugene Wesley „Gene“ Roddenberry's ghost or his successors.
I'm sticking with interstellar tachyon winds, resulting from matter - void matter recycle transactions and the resulting particle streams, that are generated as a byproduct. They are more sensible to the gravitational pull of stars than regular matter, and immune to energy into mass equivalence. Maybe their evolved cell structures can somehow trap them by generating insulating molecules of the same polarity, so they can diffuse along with the tachyons like marry Poppins .
This is actually addressed in the manual/campaign story.
Zerg supply isn't really food like for terran, it's control. The overmind controls all zerg units and to assert its control over smaller groups, they use overlords. If an overmind is killed, all zerg units under its control become mindless and just wander around aimlessly.
On November 15 2016 22:05 razorsuKe wrote: This is actually addressed in the manual/campaign story.
Zerg supply isn't really food like for terran, it's control. The overmind controls all zerg units and to assert its control over smaller groups, they use overlords. If an overmind is killed, all zerg units under its control become mindless and just wander around aimlessly.
That is why you should lose control over your units when you get negative supply as Zerg. Lore wise.
On November 15 2016 22:49 riotjune wrote: What they do is put it in their mouth and let the meat slide down their throat hole.
Whoa. But what if the meat isn't perfectly tender? Then they might need "teeth" and a "digestive system". Glad I'm not a zerg
Some zerg species do have teeth, don't they?
You are right, I just checked some official BW artwork. I wouldn't count anything SC2 related as official since that's basically fanfiction as far as I'm concerned.
Terran armies are limited by logistics (supply) Protoss armies are limited by psionic power (psi) Zerg armies are limited by how many controllers there are (control)
Terran armies eat food but not the other stuff they collect at depots.
Protoss armies don't eat psi, they photosynthesize.
Zerg don't consume control for nourishment, they consume creep (even structures do.) How? Maybe, they take handfuls of it then stuff it into their feeding orifices.
On November 15 2016 22:05 razorsuKe wrote: This is actually addressed in the manual/campaign story.
Zerg supply isn't really food like for terran, it's control. The overmind controls all zerg units and to assert its control over smaller groups, they use overlords. If an overmind is killed, all zerg units under its control become mindless and just wander around aimlessly.
That is why you should lose control over your units when you get negative supply as Zerg. Lore wise.
This is too real. How I salivate at the thought of Corsairs making the entire Zerg army useless.
overlords do not constraint control of units, but creation of units (same mechanic as supply depots or pylons). More exactly, larvae cannot be morphed into other units if without enough overlords present. But how to explain the correlation between required overlords and army size?
In an intermediate step it makes sense to imagine an overlord holding some resource which depletes after usage ("one-time usage"). Let's briefly examine terran, because it follows the same principle while it is easier to follow: A supply depot does not only provide food to existing units, but contains the supply required to train additional units. For example, it contains rifles for marines. If you construct a new supply depot it comes with the material to build 8 rifles.
You might ask "if that is true, why can I train 8 marines with 1 depot, and if they all die, train another 8?" Well, that's obvious: because you can re-use the 8 rifles you collected on the battlefield from the 8 dead marines. You might ask: "But how is it possible to maintain an army (of say 100 units) with negative supply (e.g. 0 supply depots?" That is a very good question. The answer lies in the fact that the required supply to create a new unit is a function of the size of the existing army. This can be visualized as follows: Assembling a weapon from raw materials requires a workbench. Every unit gets its own personal workbench to work with. If suddenly supply depots get destroyed and we're required to rebuild them, the existing units, being seniors and veterans, have priority when assigning the new workbenches. After all, they need a place to clean their weapons, polish their shields, and refill ammunition (but unlike food, workbenches are not required for an army to remain operational). Only when each existing unit has a workbench again we can proceed to assemble weapons for new units. Of course workbenches can be inherited from heroes who fell in battle.
Much like the behavior of light can only be explained by two models of light as a wave and light as a particle the nature of the supply depot can be described as a container of supply required to create units and a container required to maintain units.
Now back to the overlord, the same principle applies. You can imagine them holding an ingredient required for morphing in a container. After a unit has morphed, it still owns its now empty container.
The fact that overlords are natural detectors hints that they are responsible for providing the swarm with intelligence. This attribute can be observed in both models, independent of the "wave" or "particle" view. The terran analogy is the secondary function of a supply depot as a wall.
On November 16 2016 09:40 imp42 wrote: if we forget about SC2 and look at BW only:
overlords do not constraint control of units, but creation of units (same mechanic as supply depots or pylons). More exactly, larvae cannot be morphed into other units if without enough overlords present. But how to explain the correlation between required overlords and army size?
In an intermediate step it makes sense to imagine an overlord holding some resource which depletes after usage ("one-time usage"). Let's briefly examine terran, because it follows the same principle while it is easier to follow: A supply depot does not only provide food to existing units, but contains the supply required to train additional units. For example, it contains rifles for marines. If you construct a new supply depot it comes with the material to build 8 rifles.
You might ask "if that is true, why can I train 8 marines with 1 depot, and if they all die, train another 8?" Well, that's obvious: because you can re-use the 8 rifles you collected on the battlefield from the 8 dead marines. You might ask: "But how is it possible to maintain an army (of say 100 units) with negative supply (e.g. 0 supply depots?" That is a very good question. The answer lies in the fact that the required supply to create a new unit is a function of the size of the existing army. This can be visualized as follows: Assembling a weapon from raw materials requires a workbench. Every unit gets its own personal workbench to work with. If suddenly supply depots get destroyed and we're required to rebuild them, the existing units, being seniors and veterans, have priority when assigning the new workbenches. After all, they need a place to clean their weapons, polish their shields, and refill ammunition (but unlike food, workbenches are not required for an army to remain operational). Only when each existing unit has a workbench again we can proceed to assemble weapons for new units. Of course workbenches can be inherited from heroes who fell in battle.
Much like the behavior of light can only be explained by two models of light as a wave and light as a particle the nature of the supply depot can be described as a container of supply required to create units and a container required to maintain units.
Now back to the overlord, the same principle applies. You can imagine them holding an ingredient required for morphing in a container. After a unit has morphed, it still owns its now empty container.
The fact that overlords are natural detectors hints that they are responsible for providing the swarm with intelligence. This attribute can be observed in both models, independent of the "wave" or "particle" view. The terran analogy is the secondary function of a supply depot as a wall.
The Overmind generates directives, which are interpreted more generally by Cerebrates, which are then more specifically relayed by Overlords (to the Zerg units).
Overlords were evolved from the Gargantis proximae, a species of giant space-faring and semi-intelligent creatures[1] which volunteered to be assimilated in order to avoid extinction.[2] Once assimilated, they were used to help cerebrates control and coordinate their broods and scout using their enhanced senses.
Overlords possess a large, bulbous brain which is protected by a heavily armored weave of bone and cartilage. It is a large organ, with millions of nerves and synaptic contacts.[3] The overlord's cerebral structure is complex with neural pathways woven throughout the body;[4] but is heavily concentrated in its lower section and legs. It is through this system that overlords relay commands to the Swarm.
Unlike most other zerg breeds, overlords have a greater capacity to act on their own judgement, though their mental flexibility is still severely limited.[6] Overlords typically only relay orders. They are technically capable of directly controlling lesser zerg, but only with extreme difficulty. After Kerrigan's defeat at Char, some overlords attempted to form pockets of organized zerg in the same manner as broodmothers. However, this was a token effort, and most zerg regressed to a feral state.[7]
The way I see it, zergs absorb creep in a similar fashion to how frogs breathe through their skin. The bigger units can chew at the creep to eat it, or maybe creep colonies really are big zerg restaurants
On November 15 2016 23:51 c3rberUs wrote:Protoss armies don't eat psi, they photosynthesize.
So why aren't Protoss green?
I don't think photosynthesis is the correct word here. According to the Dark Templar trilogy (by Christie Golden i think), Protoss units have to be outside at night to absorb some kind of energy from the stars in the sky, otherwise they starve after a while (I don't know how long they would survive without the stars though).
On November 16 2016 20:33 Heartland wrote: So why aren't Protoss green?
Even on Earth, not all plants are green but they all use photosynthesis for their energy needs. There are trees with red leaves. Also, red seaweed is abundant. The green pigment, Chlorophyll, is what absorbs the light. But I don't remember which spectrum now. But chlorophyll is still there, in the red leaves too, it's just that our eyes can't see it, it is kind of hiding.
On November 16 2016 21:07 IntoTheStorm wrote: The green pigment, Chlorophyll, is what absorbs the light. But I don't remember which spectrum now. But chlorophyll is still there, in the red leaves too, it's just that our eyes can't see it, it is kind of hiding.
On November 15 2016 22:49 riotjune wrote: What they do is put it in their mouth and let the meat slide down their throat hole.
Whoa. But what if the meat isn't perfectly tender? Then they might need "teeth" and a "digestive system". Glad I'm not a zerg
Some zerg species do have teeth, don't they?
You are right, I just checked some official BW artwork. I wouldn't count anything SC2 related as official since that's basically fanfiction as far as I'm concerned.
Warcraft is a plagiarism from warhammer, which is based on Tolkien, based on Nordic mythology. Starcraft is also based on the futuristic warhammer which is probably inspired by multiple sci-fi books. I remember reading an interview about Blizzard wanting to use the warhammer universe but did not for whatever reason. So all in all you could probably find a reasonnable answer by an original author but I don't think it will be better than yours.
This thread is the kind of quality posting i like to see on tl. Even do it arises more questions than it answers, those questions drive to new horizons of consider-rings, therefore propelling the circle of life foward;
What i reached as a conclusion about the 3 races is this: Protoss represents higher counciousness Zerg represents higher animal counciousness Terran represents the middle ground of the two
On November 17 2016 02:40 pebble444 wrote: This thread is the kind of quality posting i like to see on tl. Even do it arises more questions than it answers, those questions drive to new horizons of consider-rings, therefore propelling the circle of life foward;
What i reached as a conclusion about the 3 races is this: Protoss represents higher counciousness Zerg represents higher animal counciousness Terran represents the middle ground of the two
Going by what I learned about lore from playin the campaigns partly:
On November 17 2016 01:04 nojok wrote: Warcraft is a plagiarism from warhammer, which is based on Tolkien, based on Nordic mythology. Starcraft is also based on the futuristic warhammer which is probably inspired by multiple sci-fi books. I remember reading an interview about Blizzard wanting to use the warhammer universe but did not for whatever reason. So all in all you could probably find a reasonnable answer by an original author but I don't think it will be better than yours.
There is actually a lot more than just warhammer in the game. I was going to make a blog about the sci-fi influences (and the nods, the parodies, etc) that went into specific units, the storylines in the campaigns and stuff.
This eating theory looks cool but if starcraft zergs are like tyranids/aliens/starship trooper bugs then there is billions of these things crawling around on zerg territory. I doubt using overlords would work well to feed such a big number of things.
On November 17 2016 04:48 Highgamer wrote:Going by what I learned about lore from playin the campaigns partly: Protoss represents homeless, perfidious, bigheaded scum. Zerg represents scum. And Terran represents mankind in all their vain and glory.
I don't see how Protoss are any more scummy than Terran. Protoss certainly has a moral high ground over Terran in the campaigns.
Who sacrificed his own life to slay the Overmind again?
Yeah, moral highground sure makes one a better person, that's a very protossish way to think.
There are some good Protoss guys in the campaign, but that one toad-faced prick hating on Terrans in the midst of the biggest threat from the Swarm really stuck in my head as the protoypal Protoss... going on hating on sort of his own kind, the DTs.... the DTs... hating on DTs... wait a minute, what a likeable little toad...
But maybe you see how I got my prejudice...
Also: "futuristic technology" (aka: someone at Blizz wanted to add something magic), shared consciousness, honorable traditions... a lot of things about Protoss are really creepy... they're like a disappointed human's utopian fallacy.
Well, I guess you're arguing from within the lore, and I'm looking at the lore...
On November 17 2016 07:41 Jae Zedong wrote: Protoss only fought for higher ideals while Terran was busy breeding Zerg, backstabbing their own kind and being selfish and scheming in general.
Even the Protoss who happened to be a nuisance only did so because they were misguided, not because they were genuinely evil like many Terrans.
That are two ways how shit can happen with moral highgrounds per se...
No. It's actually one of the strongest points of the real campaigns (aka SC1 and BW) that they dared to flesh out an alien race and give them proper motives, instead of turning them into silly one dimensional caricatures like in SC2.
Anything Protoss does in the campaigns is for pure survival or for the destruction of Zerg. The same cannot be said for Terran.
"No" what? I didn't say Protoss are caricatures or have no reasonable motives, just that they're designed like a failing utopia, I think we even agree on that.. Given that, I think you're just a bit over the top with your admiration for them.
How does it help their survival that they discriminate against the DTs because of some old sayings? or sit out the threat that Zerg is until they lose their home planet? Or look down at the reasonable humans they should be working together with? Remember toad-face who first has to be ruled out before Protoss' heroes can shine, how'd he get to power in the first place? The Protoss are not noble creatures because they say they are all the time (but maybe I formulated my critique a little too sharp and one-sided initially... that's because of TvP, u know?).
I just don't like the race's design as 'morally sublime, technologically advanced, tragically threatened to death'... I think psychic/telepathic-powers are as cheap as magic is in fiction, I think shared consciousness is a very, very dubious thing, and the Protoss get into deep shit for being too traditional and 'pure'.
Terrans act like humans, humans aren't perfect but have personal goals and an idea of what good life is for themselves, even the baddies. I can relate to that, even if it's not pretty.. it's realistic. Some humans even found out how dangerous 'higher morals' per se are, that insisting on higher morals is one of the main reasons for ethical failure... maybe you despise the fallible, sceptical humans and glorify Protoss a bit too much for that reason because they still try hard...
And remember my point about arguing inside the lore and outside of the lore... Blizzard gave you these tragic heroes to admire... I just cannot fall for that.
PS TL/DR: Didn't want to high-jack the thread, I guess most people are keen on going back to the zerg eating stuff... My guess is, like some others mentioned, that they don' eat at all, they're just biologically engineered fighters or supporters who eventually fall over and die (should they live long enough, which doesn't happen often as they're only produced when necesarry, and if, used quite lavishly)... they are probably just reabsorbed by the creep, sounds really efficient.
According to the lore, Protoss fought each other in bloody wars for thousands of years, which is why the Xel'Naga abandoned them. It wasn't until much later that the tribes stopped fighting and formed the council, so they have a very dark history. Even during the campaign, Tassadar defies the wishes of the elders and oh my god I sound like a fucking nerd
On November 17 2016 12:33 ninazerg wrote: According to the lore, Protoss fought each other in bloody wars for thousands of years, which is why the Xel'Naga abandoned them. It wasn't until much later that the tribes stopped fighting and formed the council, so they have a very dark history. Even during the campaign, Tassadar defies the wishes of the elders and oh my god I sound like a fucking nerd
might wanna be a bit more careful with the word "nerd" over here. next to the word "fucking" might not be the best place to put it. You know there's a lot of us here. We can hur--- we can hack you.
On November 17 2016 12:33 ninazerg wrote: According to the lore, Protoss fought each other in bloody wars for thousands of years, which is why the Xel'Naga abandoned them. It wasn't until much later that the tribes stopped fighting and formed the council, so they have a very dark history. Even during the campaign, Tassadar defies the wishes of the elders and oh my god I sound like a fucking nerd
On November 17 2016 12:33 ninazerg wrote: According to the lore, Protoss fought each other in bloody wars for thousands of years, which is why the Xel'Naga abandoned them. It wasn't until much later that the tribes stopped fighting and formed the council, so they have a very dark history. Even during the campaign, Tassadar defies the wishes of the elders and oh my god I sound like a fucking nerd
You stole that from the Big Bang Theory!
Pretty sure Protoss are not mentioned in BBT.
My theory on how zergs eat:
Having an entire digestive metabolism for each subspecies seems very inefficient for a biologically engineered race creating weapons of war.
I'm sticking to the theory that whatever nutrition they need is absorbed in some manner from creep and that overlords just act as coordinators. Maybe the overlords are just janitors, sweeping up the leftover junk amidst the creep.
On November 17 2016 19:57 DarkNetHunter wrote: My theory on how zergs eat:
Having an entire digestive metabolism for each subspecies seems very inefficient for a biologically engineered race creating weapons of war.
I'm sticking to the theory that whatever nutrition they need is absorbed in some manner from creep and that overlords just act as coordinators. Maybe the overlords are just janitors, sweeping up the leftover junk amidst the creep.
Yup, that's my theory as well. It is "official" that creep contains nutritions in order to keep zerg structures alive, so why shouldn't zerg units benefit from that as well. And yes, anytime Overlords come into play (lore wise) they're only there to coordinate the swarm guided by the overmind or Kerrigan respectively.
On November 17 2016 19:57 DarkNetHunter wrote: Except defilers, they're hungry as fuck.
That is so true. Sometimes they even consume an Ultralisk (or even more than just one as you can see in some old Pro League match xD) without defilers changing their slim appearance. On the other hand, anything they consume generates energy for them, although it doesn't matter, if their victims are small or large. I wonder what happens though when their energy capacity exeeds...
On November 17 2016 12:33 ninazerg wrote: According to the lore, Protoss fought each other in bloody wars for thousands of years, which is why the Xel'Naga abandoned them. It wasn't until much later that the tribes stopped fighting and formed the council, so they have a very dark history. Even during the campaign, Tassadar defies the wishes of the elders and oh my god I sound like a fucking nerd
You stole that from the Big Bang Theory!
I don't watch the Big Bang Theory. That show makes me cringe too hard.
I was just saying that Protoss aren't above PvP warfare in the lore -- they're kind of a race that sees themselves as enlightened, but are still susceptible to the most basic instincts of killing for control/survival. As social commentary, I suspect the Protoss are kind of an idea of what an intelligent race could be after a long era of peace.
But lore is in the past, they may well have evolved both genetically and societally by the time of the actual campaigns.
On November 18 2016 00:27 ninazerg wrote: they're kind of a race that sees themselves as enlightened
They are more enlightened than Terrans by any conceivable measurement. Remember, Terrans aren't "us", you need to view them as independent from contemporary humans.
On November 18 2016 00:27 ninazerg wrote: but are still susceptible to the most basic instincts of killing for control/survival
In the lore maybe, not in the campaigns. And there's nothing wrong with having an instinct for survival.
The weirdest thing about Protoss, if we think influence-wise, is that they got inspiration coming from Predator (think about the Zealot sounds in BW, the invisibility, etc)
They are more enlightened than Terrans by any conceivable measurement. Remember, Terrans aren't "us", you need to view them as independent from contemporary humans.
Anything, you name it. Much more advanced tech for one. Terran tech "plays by the rules". With the exception of warp (which Protoss has too of course), almost all Terran technology are conceivable extensions of current tech after centuries of refinement. Meanwhile much protoss technology and psionics might as well be magic. Countless things like Purification, Psionic Storm, Mind Control etc etc are far beyond human and Terran comprehension.
In fact Terran actively suppressed technology advances. I quote: "The new government believed in the divinity of mankind and worked to eliminate anyone who had undergone genetic engineering or used non-essential cybernetic equipment." Yeah, 'divinity of mankind' doesn't sound arrogant at all.
Then there's the obvious moral high ground. The Protoss leadership may be inept at times, but not in a malicious way. Anything Protoss does has pure intentions even if they happen to be slightly misguided at times. By the time of the campaigns the Protoss is a race of significant harmony and intelligence.
Meanwhile Terran is basically just an alien invader coming to the Protoss' backyard to fuck shit up, making things worse at every turn with their Zerg experiments and misinterpretations of Protoss intentions. They're hardly any better than the Zerg, and significantly dumber than the Zerg. The Overmind gave Zerg considerable intelligence and cohesion that Terran never had.
If StarCraft has a social commentary it's that familiarity does not equal superiority. We're culturally and psychologically conditioned to view anything alien as worse, but here Terrans are scum while the "alien" Protoss are the good guys. StarCraft is inviting you to challenge your own superiority complex aka "divinity of mankind". It seems you have not yet succeeded.
On November 18 2016 05:02 Jae Zedong wrote: Anything, you name it. Much more advanced tech for one. Terran tech "plays by the rules". With the exception of warp (which Protoss has too of course), almost all Terran technology are conceivable extensions of current tech after centuries of refinement. Meanwhile much protoss technology and psionics might as well be magic. Countless things like Purification, Psionic Storm, Mind Control etc etc are far beyond human and Terran comprehension.
In fact Terran actively suppressed technology advances. I quote: "The new government believed in the divinity of mankind and worked to eliminate anyone who had undergone genetic engineering or used non-essential cybernetic equipment." Yeah, 'divinity of mankind' doesn't sound arrogant at all.
Then there's the obvious moral high ground. The Protoss leadership may be inept at times, but not in a malicious way. Anything Protoss does has pure intentions even if they happen to be slightly misguided at times. By the time of the campaigns the Protoss is a race of significant harmony and intelligence.
Meanwhile Terran is basically just an alien invader coming to the Protoss' backyard to fuck shit up, making things worse at every turn with their Zerg experiments and misinterpretations of Protoss intentions. They're hardly any better than the Zerg, and significantly dumber than the Zerg. The Overmind gave Zerg considerable intelligence and cohesion that Terran never had.
If StarCraft has a social commentary it's that familiarity does not equal superiority. We're culturally and psychologically conditioned to view anything alien as worse, but here Terrans are scum while the "alien" Protoss are the good guys. StarCraft is inviting you to challenge your own superiority complex aka "divinity of mankind". It seems you have not yet succeeded.
I don't know if you actually believe what you wrote, but I'm hoping you don't.
First of all I don't think you know what enlightenment means. Technological development and advancement have never been a measure of enlightenment, and technology has most rapidly developed in times of war (see our own history, or + Show Spoiler [Technology implies belligerence, From…] +
Once there were three tribes. The Optimists, whose patron saints were Drake and Sagan, believed in a universe crawling with gentle intelligence. Surely, said the Optimists, space travel implies peaceful intentions, for it requires the control of great destructive energies. Any race that can't rise above its own brutal instincts will wipe itself out long before it learns to bridge the interstellar gulf.
Across from the Optimists sat the Pessimists, who genuflected before graven images of St. Fermi and a host of lesser lightweights. The Pessimists envisioned a lonely universe full of dead rocks and prokaryotic slime. The odds are just too low, they insisted. Too many rogues, too much radiation, too much eccentricity in too many orbits. If the galaxy were alive with intelligence, wouldn't it be here by now?
Equidistant from the two tribes sat the Historians. They didn't have many thoughts on the probable prevalence of intelligent, spacefaring extraterrestrials. But if there are any, they said, they're not just going to be smart. They're going to be mean. The reason wasn't merely Human history, the ongoing succession of greater technologies griding lesser ones beneath their boots. No, the real issue was what tools are for. To the Historians, tools existed for only one reason: to force the universe into unnatural shapes. They treated nature as an enemy, they were by definition a rebellion against the way things were.
Technology is a stunted thing in benign environments, it never thrived in any culture gripped by belief in natural harmony. Why invent fusion reactors if your climate is comfortable, if your food is abundant? Why build fortresses if you have no enemies? Why force change upon a world that poses no threat?
Human civilization had a lot of branches, not so long ago. Even into the twenty-first century, a few isolated branches had barely developed stone tools. Some settled down with agriculture. Others weren't content until they had ended nature itself. Still others had built cities in space. We all rested eventually, though. Each new technology trampled lesser ones, climbed to some complacent asymptote, and stopped. But history never said that everyone had to stop where we did. There could be other, more hellish worlds where the best Human technology would crumble, where the environment was still the enemy.
The threats contained in those environments would not be simple ones. Harsh weather and natural disasters either kill you or they don't, and once conquered — or adapted to — they lose their relevance. No, the only environmental factors that continued to matter were those that fought back, that countered strategies with newer ones, that forced their enemies to scale ever-greater heights just to stay alive. Ultimately, the only enemy that mattered was an intelligent one.
And if the best toys do end up in the hands of those who've never forgotten that life itself is an act of war against intelligent opponents, what does that say about a race whose machines travel between the stars?
Then there's the obvious moral high ground. The Protoss leadership may be inept at times, but not in a malicious way. Anything Protoss does has pure intentions even if they happen to be slightly misguided at times. By the time of the campaigns the Protoss is a race of significant harmony and intelligence.
Harmony? What would you call the schism between High and Dark Templar? As far as I'm concerned they're a depiction of Christianity split along Catholic / Protestant lines with the only thing bringing them together the destruction of their home and the existential threat they face from a foreign entity. Certainly doesn't imply harmony or intelligence.
Terrans peacefully expanded and how would they know they were in the Protoss backyard, they had never had first contact with the Protoss. Not to mention 'misinterpretations' of Protoss intentions is because the Protoss never explained their intentions, they just opened up with beams of death!
I think Starcraft is not inviting you to that, it's showing that even in the future humanity will basically be the same shit show it is today and religious fanaticism (protoss) is just as bad in thousands of years as it is now. I certainly didn't grow up to view anything alien/different as worse and I don't think playing Starcraft made me think aliens were worse than humans, the Protoss can be respected and so can the Zerg, they're just different.
On November 18 2016 03:14 Heartland wrote: The weirdest thing about Protoss, if we think influence-wise, is that they got inspiration coming from Predator (think about the Zealot sounds in BW, the invisibility, etc)
They were much cooler then with their psi-blade sound, battle cries, death sounds... actually everything just sounded darker and cooler in BW. Now it's like, "oh some zealots are waving their glow sticks around."
Terrans peacefully expanded and how would they know they were in the Protoss backyard, they had never had first contact with the Protoss. Not to mention 'misinterpretations' of Protoss intentions is because the Protoss never explained their intentions, they just opened up with beams of death!
I think Starcraft is not inviting you to that, it's showing that even in the future humanity will basically be the same shit show it is today and religious fanaticism (protoss) is just as bad in thousands of years as it is now. I certainly didn't grow up to view anything alien/different as worse and I don't think playing Starcraft made me think aliens were worse than humans, the Protoss can be respected and so can the Zerg, they're just different.
I should point three things: First, Aiur is very far away from Koprulu. This means that the Terrans aren't actually in the Protoss' backyard, per se. The Zerg want to assimilate the Terran race to obtain the Terran race's emerging psychic powers. The Protoss stayed hidden, but watched over other races, and were forced to reveal themselves when the Zerg attacked.
Second, Chau Sara was already gone when the Protoss nuked it. That's why Tassadar later decided not to hit bigger planets like Tarsonis, because there was still a lot of humanity intact on those planets.
Third, it's important to note where the Terrans came from. They were coming off of prison ships from the Human race, so you essentially have a race of redneck criminals starting their own civilization. In a sector completely isolated from Earth, and with limited resources, of course they're going to end up fighting each other. And when rebels get so out-of-hand that nuclear weapons can't keep them tame, the prospect of taming savage aliens that reproduce quickly seems like a possibly good way to enforce the government's power over the Koprulu Sector. Even the UED's ultimate goal was to control the Zerg.
You can split hairs over words all you want, but you've entered the wrong word into your little dictionary. I did not use the verb form of enlightened, I used the adjective. Which means "factually well-informed and guided by rational thought", which can certainly translate into superior technology.
And it's a fact that Protoss do have superior technology over terrans. The fact that you didn't dispute this, and that you dedicated 50% of your post to bickering about the definition of that one word doesn't bode well for the intellectual integrity of the rest of your argument.
their first contact was to wipe out a human colony. Instead of educating humanity about the Zerg and their dangers, they just eradicated a human colony.
Lol no, Chau Sara was not a "human colony", it was by that point completely overrun by zerg with isolated pockets of terrans who were doomed either way. The good far outweighed the bad, and these types of decisions are made all the time in war.
When you have a giant honeypot filled to the brim with killer ants, you don't care that a single butterfly got in there, you take a flamethrower to that shit. The terrans themselves did as much to their own kind in the intro film to Brood War, remember? Let me refresh your memory:
"The game opened with a few terrans in a trench, defending themselves from a bloody zerg assault. A battlecruiser which appeared overhead was hailed as promised air support, though the ship did not open fire on the zerg forces.
As the zerg began to overrun the colony, a UED crew member asked if they should intervene to save the remaining terrans; DuGalle declined and ordered the battlecruiser to leave the area."
And unlike the Protoss they didn't even have a reason to, they just enjoy being sociopathic dicks!
Harmony?
Harmony relative to Terrans. The Dark Templar way of life is simply incompatible with the Khalai, and they live separately for the mutual benefit of both. There is no bloody civil war (unlike the constant civil wars ravaging the Terran race), they simply keep to their own.
Thanks to the enlightenment of the Protoss in general, Dark Templar don't even hold much of a grudge toward the Khalai. Let me quote: "Despite their persecution, the majority of Dark Templar do not hold anything against their estranged brethren, seeking to defend Aiur in any way they can." Terran infighting is on a whole other level.
I certainly didn't grow up to view anything alien/different as worse and I don't think playing Starcraft made me think aliens were worse than humans, the Protoss can be respected and so can the Zerg, they're just different.
The fact that you're trying to rationalize the Zerg as "just different" proves that you're desperate to be contrarian. The Zerg are fucking ruthless killing machines that would gladly annihilate all humanity in an instant if they could. They're not "charming", "quaint" or "exotic". They're literally a caricature of Evil.
You trying to put the Zerg on par with Protoss disqualifies your entire disposition. Good day.
The fact that you're trying to rationalize the Zerg as "just different" proves that you're desperate to be contrarian. The Zerg are fucking ruthless killing machines that would gladly annihilate all humanity in an instant if they could. They're not "charming", "quaint" or "exotic". They're literally a caricature of Evil.
You brought up a lot of points that I also brought up, but this is wrong. Zerg is love.
You can split hairs over words all you want, but you've entered the wrong word into your little dictionary. I did not use the verb form of enlightened, I used the adjective. Which means "factually well-informed and guided by rational thought", which can certainly translate into superior technology.
And it's a fact that Protoss do have superior technology over terrans. The fact that you didn't dispute this, and that you dedicated 50% of your post to bickering about the definition of that one word doesn't bode well for the intellectual integrity of the rest of your argument.
You selectively took out 'tolerant of alternative opinions' from the definition which the Protoss clearly are not. I never argued that Protoss do not have superior technology, because they do. I just explained that Technology does not imply enlightenment (which you wrote a whole paragraph on), but rather belligerence, which you nicely ignored, way to go intellectual integrity.
Lol no, Chau Sara was not a "human colony", it was by that point completely overrun by zerg with isolated pockets of terrans who were doomed either way. The good far outweighed the bad, and these types of decisions are made all the time in war.
As far as most of humanity was concerned it was a human colony, outside of Confederate elites, humans had not heard of the Zerg or were even aware of their existence, so again, Protoss doing shit without explaining shit obviously leads to misinformed opinions. You can't rationalize away what the Protoss do just because humanity is stupid.
When you have a giant honeypot filled to the brim with killer ants, you don't care that a single butterfly got in there, you take a flamethrower to that shit. The terrans themselves did as much to their own kind in the intro film to Brood War, remember? Let me refresh your memory:
"The game opened with a few terrans in a trench, defending themselves from a bloody zerg assault. A battlecruiser which appeared overhead was hailed as promised air support, though the ship did not open fire on the zerg forces.
As the zerg began to overrun the colony, a UED crew member asked if they should intervene to save the remaining terrans; DuGalle declined and ordered the battlecruiser to leave the area."
And unlike the Protoss they didn't even have a reason to, they just enjoy being sociopathic dicks!
That was BW, where as chau sara which we're talking about is from the original Starcraft and thus the introduction of the races. I fail to see how terrans being shit (which is what I said) makes Protoss any less dicks.
Harmony?
Harmony relative to Terrans. The Dark Templar way of life is simply incompatible with the Khalai, and they live separately for the mutual benefit of both. There is no bloody civil war (unlike the constant civil wars ravaging the Terran race), they simply keep to their own.
Thanks to the enlightenment of the Protoss in general, Dark Templar don't even hold much of a grudge toward the Khalai. Let me quote: "Despite their persecution, the majority of Dark Templar do not hold anything against their estranged brethren, seeking to defend Aiur in any way they can." Terran infighting is on a whole other level.
Let me quote this for you then
A number of protoss, called the Rogues, refused to submit to the Khala and tried to hide themselves from the Conclave. Eventually the Conclave ordered the leader of the Templar, young Executor Adun, to terminate them. Adun taught them how to hide themselves from the Conclave instead. However, the Rogues were unable to control their powers without the Khala and their presence was revealed when they accidentally created massive psionic storms over Aiur. Unable to hide their presence any longer, the Conclave ordered them banished from Aiur. Over time, they became known as the Dark Templar for their habit of cutting their psionic appendages to separate themselves from the Khala.
Ordering execution and when that fails banishing them your homeworld because you believe something different, really harmonious.
Here's another bit of Protoss rational harmony for you
Tassadar finally managed to contact Aiur and explain his recent activities. The former executor's admission of cooperating with the Dark Templar sparked outrage in the conservative Conclave. Ultimately the Conclave ordered Artanis and the Fleet of the Executor to arrest Tassadar at Char. It was a diversion of force the defenders could ill afford; contrary to the Conclave's beliefs, the zerg were winning the war. Tassadar was dismayed that an entire fleet was sent from the beleaguered homeworld just to arrest him because of an ideological issue.
The fact that you're trying to rationalize the Zerg as "just different" proves that you're desperate to be contrarian. The Zerg are fucking ruthless killing machines that would gladly annihilate all humanity in an instant if they could. They're not "charming", "quaint" or "exotic". They're literally a caricature of Evil.
You trying to put the Zerg on par with Protoss disqualifies your entire disposition. Good day.
They are different, the Zerg fundamentally show a different paradigm of existence. The Protoss are intent on eradicating the Zerg because they are also offspring of the Xel'Naga (which is a fact the Protoss recognized) and think them an abomination (rational?). The Zerg are actually trying to incorporate the best biological components of every species they encounter in order to create one united and stronger species, killing off leftover components of races they've already adapted the essentials from might seem cold hearted to a human, but is a perfectly rational decision in order to use planetary resources for their own development and remove opposition. The Zerg go after the Protoss, because Zerg recognize the biological potential of the protoss and want to assimilate them. They assimilate humanity as a stepping stone for getting to the Protoss. I never implied that any of the species were 'charming, quaint or exotic.' Evil is a human moral term, it has no meaning for an alien race.
Anyway if you want to debate further feel free to PM, so the thread can return to its pure origins of what Zergs eat =)
On November 18 2016 12:20 riotjune wrote: Oh no please don't take it to PM, I'm enjoying the thread as is.
Same, haha :D
@DNH, where did you quote that from? From the campaign or the novels which were written? I've played the campaign a million times but only in German (same with the books), so I can't really relate them 100%. Just curious where exactly you quoted that from
Terrans peacefully expanded and how would they know they were in the Protoss backyard, they had never had first contact with the Protoss. Not to mention 'misinterpretations' of Protoss intentions is because the Protoss never explained their intentions, they just opened up with beams of death!
I think Starcraft is not inviting you to that, it's showing that even in the future humanity will basically be the same shit show it is today and religious fanaticism (protoss) is just as bad in thousands of years as it is now. I certainly didn't grow up to view anything alien/different as worse and I don't think playing Starcraft made me think aliens were worse than humans, the Protoss can be respected and so can the Zerg, they're just different.
I should point three things: First, Aiur is very far away from Koprulu. This means that the Terrans aren't actually in the Protoss' backyard, per se. The Zerg want to assimilate the Terran race to obtain the Terran race's emerging psychic powers. The Protoss stayed hidden, but watched over other races, and were forced to reveal themselves when the Zerg attacked.
Second, Chau Sara was already gone when the Protoss nuked it. That's why Tassadar later decided not to hit bigger planets like Tarsonis, because there was still a lot of humanity intact on those planets.
Third, it's important to note where the Terrans came from. They were coming off of prison ships from the Human race, so you essentially have a race of redneck criminals starting their own civilization. In a sector completely isolated from Earth, and with limited resources, of course they're going to end up fighting each other. And when rebels get so out-of-hand that nuclear weapons can't keep them tame, the prospect of taming savage aliens that reproduce quickly seems like a possibly good way to enforce the government's power over the Koprulu Sector. Even the UED's ultimate goal was to control the Zerg.
Really the Protoss are a metaphor for the follies of unilateral military intervention. See, the Zerg began infesting the Terrans, and rather than approach the Terrans as equals and cooperate in defeating the Swarm, the Protoss decided that, as the biggest and baddest military power in the sector, they would take the easier approach and just evaporate everything. Never mind the loss of innocent lives; it's for everyone's greater good (well, except the Zerg, but everyone hates them). The fact that some Terran elements were experimenting on the Zerg probably reaffirmed their self-righteousness.
This absurd self-importance facilitates the collapse of the existing Terran political structure, enabling Arcturus Mengsk's rise to power (sound familiar?). It also leads to what probably seemed at the time like a fairly insignificant skirmish on board a Terran space platform called New Gettysburg - the event which led to the rise of the Queen of Blades. Tassadar finally disobeys the Conclave because he is troubled by their disregard for Terran lives, and they ostracize him in return - a move which prompts a civil war and allows the Overmind to manifest on Aiur. By the time they've come together and acknowledged their follies, their homeworld is destroyed and their hegemony is ended - even with the assistance of two Terran armies, they can't defeat the now dominant forces of Kerrigan.
Also I always just assumed lower-level Zerg don't need to eat since they die so quickly, like just swap out the digestive system for something spikier and throw them at a siege tank line
Terrans peacefully expanded and how would they know they were in the Protoss backyard, they had never had first contact with the Protoss. Not to mention 'misinterpretations' of Protoss intentions is because the Protoss never explained their intentions, they just opened up with beams of death!
I think Starcraft is not inviting you to that, it's showing that even in the future humanity will basically be the same shit show it is today and religious fanaticism (protoss) is just as bad in thousands of years as it is now. I certainly didn't grow up to view anything alien/different as worse and I don't think playing Starcraft made me think aliens were worse than humans, the Protoss can be respected and so can the Zerg, they're just different.
I should point three things: First, Aiur is very far away from Koprulu. This means that the Terrans aren't actually in the Protoss' backyard, per se. The Zerg want to assimilate the Terran race to obtain the Terran race's emerging psychic powers. The Protoss stayed hidden, but watched over other races, and were forced to reveal themselves when the Zerg attacked.
Second, Chau Sara was already gone when the Protoss nuked it. That's why Tassadar later decided not to hit bigger planets like Tarsonis, because there was still a lot of humanity intact on those planets.
Third, it's important to note where the Terrans came from. They were coming off of prison ships from the Human race, so you essentially have a race of redneck criminals starting their own civilization. In a sector completely isolated from Earth, and with limited resources, of course they're going to end up fighting each other. And when rebels get so out-of-hand that nuclear weapons can't keep them tame, the prospect of taming savage aliens that reproduce quickly seems like a possibly good way to enforce the government's power over the Koprulu Sector. Even the UED's ultimate goal was to control the Zerg.
Really the Protoss are a metaphor for the follies of unilateral military intervention. See, the Zerg began infesting the Terrans, and rather than approach the Terrans as equals and cooperate in defeating the Swarm, the Protoss decided that, as the biggest and baddest military power in the sector, they would take the easier approach and just evaporate everything. Never mind the loss of innocent lives; it's for everyone's greater good (well, except the Zerg, but everyone hates them). The fact that some Terran elements were experimenting on the Zerg probably reaffirmed their self-righteousness.
This absurd self-importance facilitates the collapse of the existing Terran political structure, enabling Arcturus Mengsk's rise to power (sound familiar?). It also leads to what probably seemed at the time like a fairly insignificant skirmish on board a Terran space platform called New Gettysburg - the event which led to the rise of the Queen of Blades. Tassadar finally disobeys the Conclave because he is troubled by their disregard for Terran lives, and they ostracize him in return - a move which prompts a civil war and allows the Overmind to manifest on Aiur. By the time they've come together and acknowledged their follies, their homeworld is destroyed and their hegemony is ended - even with the assistance of two Terran armies, they can't defeat the now dominant forces of Kerrigan.
That's a very oversimplified version of a very complex situation. If the Zerg were to ever successfully assimilate a Terran ghost into their ranks -- which they eventually did on a smaller scale -- it would be impossible to deal with the Zerg. The Protoss had to destroy the colony at Chau Sara, but by that time, the Zerg had already sent forces to Mar Sara.
I've never claimed that the Protoss were above making mistakes. I've said the opposite, which is that the Protoss are flawed and their history reflects that. Their mistakes during both campaigns are numerous. The Zerg would not have located Aiur, ironically, if Zeratul had not killed Zasz. In a way, this kind of validates the Conclave's persecution of the Dark Templar, who saw the Dark Templar's reality-bending psionics to be dangerous and unpredictable. But how could Tassadar foresee that the Overmind would be able to find the location of Aiur through the loss of a cerebrate? It's clear that he made this decision after trying several methods to deal with the Zerg unsuccessfully. A Protoss-Confederacy alliance would likely have made little difference since neither knew exactly how to kill the Zerg.
The Zerg commit completely to their attack on Aiur, which saves humanity. Nine of the fourteen Terran worlds were wiped out completely by the Zerg, and if the Zerg had not pulled back to attack Aiur, there would be no Koprulu Sector to return to in the Brood War campaign. As we know, though, the Overmind manifests itself on Aiur and is eventually killed by Tassadar. With the Overmind dead, I think it was assumed that the Zerg would die off, but we all know in hindsight that this was not the case.
The Brood War campaign introduces us to the Zerg's resiliency as a race, and the campaign focuses on who will ultimately rule over the Zerg now that the Overmind is dead. The UED has a big stake in controlling the Zerg, as does Kerrigan. The cerebrates in the Koprulu sector merged themselves into a new Overmind on the lava world of Char, and while the Protoss and Terran Dominion see the Zerg as their primary enemy, they are forced into an unlikely alliance with Kerrigan once it becomes clear that the UED is the biggest threat to all of them.
Everyone has their own agenda and Kerrigan backstabs all her allies. She kills the Overmind on Char, and that sets up the final battle on the space platform above Char. The reason the UED, Dominion, and Artanis cannot defeat the Zerg in the Omega battle is not because the Zerg are too strong. It is an unlikely victory, as a majority of the Zerg were on the surface of Char. The UED has lost huge numbers throughout the campaign, and went from being the biggest threat in the galaxy to a pathetic force trying to salvage a victory that they almost certainly should have won. It is because of this victory that the Zerg re-emerge as the strongest faction in the sector, and perhaps, the galaxy.
On November 19 2016 06:29 Zergneedsfood wrote: I've been waiting my whole life for this thread.
Thread complete.
Posts were getting a bit unnecessarily aggressive, but please dont take it to PM guys. Enjoying the silliness in general. Fun (yet become surprisingly interesting) threads like this are good.
Terrans peacefully expanded and how would they know they were in the Protoss backyard, they had never had first contact with the Protoss. Not to mention 'misinterpretations' of Protoss intentions is because the Protoss never explained their intentions, they just opened up with beams of death!
I think Starcraft is not inviting you to that, it's showing that even in the future humanity will basically be the same shit show it is today and religious fanaticism (protoss) is just as bad in thousands of years as it is now. I certainly didn't grow up to view anything alien/different as worse and I don't think playing Starcraft made me think aliens were worse than humans, the Protoss can be respected and so can the Zerg, they're just different.
I should point three things: First, Aiur is very far away from Koprulu. This means that the Terrans aren't actually in the Protoss' backyard, per se. The Zerg want to assimilate the Terran race to obtain the Terran race's emerging psychic powers. The Protoss stayed hidden, but watched over other races, and were forced to reveal themselves when the Zerg attacked.
Second, Chau Sara was already gone when the Protoss nuked it. That's why Tassadar later decided not to hit bigger planets like Tarsonis, because there was still a lot of humanity intact on those planets.
Third, it's important to note where the Terrans came from. They were coming off of prison ships from the Human race, so you essentially have a race of redneck criminals starting their own civilization. In a sector completely isolated from Earth, and with limited resources, of course they're going to end up fighting each other. And when rebels get so out-of-hand that nuclear weapons can't keep them tame, the prospect of taming savage aliens that reproduce quickly seems like a possibly good way to enforce the government's power over the Koprulu Sector. Even the UED's ultimate goal was to control the Zerg.
Really the Protoss are a metaphor for the follies of unilateral military intervention. See, the Zerg began infesting the Terrans, and rather than approach the Terrans as equals and cooperate in defeating the Swarm, the Protoss decided that, as the biggest and baddest military power in the sector, they would take the easier approach and just evaporate everything. Never mind the loss of innocent lives; it's for everyone's greater good (well, except the Zerg, but everyone hates them). The fact that some Terran elements were experimenting on the Zerg probably reaffirmed their self-righteousness.
This absurd self-importance facilitates the collapse of the existing Terran political structure, enabling Arcturus Mengsk's rise to power (sound familiar?). It also leads to what probably seemed at the time like a fairly insignificant skirmish on board a Terran space platform called New Gettysburg - the event which led to the rise of the Queen of Blades. Tassadar finally disobeys the Conclave because he is troubled by their disregard for Terran lives, and they ostracize him in return - a move which prompts a civil war and allows the Overmind to manifest on Aiur. By the time they've come together and acknowledged their follies, their homeworld is destroyed and their hegemony is ended - even with the assistance of two Terran armies, they can't defeat the now dominant forces of Kerrigan.
That's a very oversimplified version of a very complex situation. If the Zerg were to ever successfully assimilate a Terran ghost into their ranks -- which they eventually did on a smaller scale -- it would be impossible to deal with the Zerg. The Protoss had to destroy the colony at Chau Sara, but by that time, the Zerg had already sent forces to Mar Sara.
I've never claimed that the Protoss were above making mistakes. I've said the opposite, which is that the Protoss are flawed and their history reflects that. Their mistakes during both campaigns are numerous. The Zerg would not have located Aiur, ironically, if Zeratul had not killed Zasz. In a way, this kind of validates the Conclave's persecution of the Dark Templar, who saw the Dark Templar's reality-bending psionics to be dangerous and unpredictable. But how could Tassadar foresee that the Overmind would be able to find the location of Aiur through the loss of a cerebrate? It's clear that he made this decision after trying several methods to deal with the Zerg unsuccessfully. A Protoss-Confederacy alliance would likely have made little difference since neither knew exactly how to kill the Zerg.
The Zerg commit completely to their attack on Aiur, which saves humanity. Nine of the fourteen Terran worlds were wiped out completely by the Zerg, and if the Zerg had not pulled back to attack Aiur, there would be no Koprulu Sector to return to in the Brood War campaign. As we know, though, the Overmind manifests itself on Aiur and is eventually killed by Tassadar. With the Overmind dead, I think it was assumed that the Zerg would die off, but we all know in hindsight that this was not the case.
The Brood War campaign introduces us to the Zerg's resiliency as a race, and the campaign focuses on who will ultimately rule over the Zerg now that the Overmind is dead. The UED has a big stake in controlling the Zerg, as does Kerrigan. The cerebrates in the Koprulu sector merged themselves into a new Overmind on the lava world of Char, and while the Protoss and Terran Dominion see the Zerg as their primary enemy, they are forced into an unlikely alliance with Kerrigan once it becomes clear that the UED is the biggest threat to all of them.
Everyone has their own agenda and Kerrigan backstabs all her allies. She kills the Overmind on Char, and that sets up the final battle on the space platform above Char. The reason the UED, Dominion, and Artanis cannot defeat the Zerg in the Omega battle is not because the Zerg are too strong. It is an unlikely victory, as a majority of the Zerg were on the surface of Char. The UED has lost huge numbers throughout the campaign, and went from being the biggest threat in the galaxy to a pathetic force trying to salvage a victory that they almost certainly should have won. It is because of this victory that the Zerg re-emerge as the strongest faction in the sector, and perhaps, the galaxy.
Fair enough. But I maintain that the unilateral mentality of the Protoss in the first campaign is a major factor in their eventual fall from galactic police to outcasts on a strange planet.
Terrans peacefully expanded and how would they know they were in the Protoss backyard, they had never had first contact with the Protoss. Not to mention 'misinterpretations' of Protoss intentions is because the Protoss never explained their intentions, they just opened up with beams of death!
I think Starcraft is not inviting you to that, it's showing that even in the future humanity will basically be the same shit show it is today and religious fanaticism (protoss) is just as bad in thousands of years as it is now. I certainly didn't grow up to view anything alien/different as worse and I don't think playing Starcraft made me think aliens were worse than humans, the Protoss can be respected and so can the Zerg, they're just different.
I should point three things: First, Aiur is very far away from Koprulu. This means that the Terrans aren't actually in the Protoss' backyard, per se. The Zerg want to assimilate the Terran race to obtain the Terran race's emerging psychic powers. The Protoss stayed hidden, but watched over other races, and were forced to reveal themselves when the Zerg attacked.
Second, Chau Sara was already gone when the Protoss nuked it. That's why Tassadar later decided not to hit bigger planets like Tarsonis, because there was still a lot of humanity intact on those planets.
Third, it's important to note where the Terrans came from. They were coming off of prison ships from the Human race, so you essentially have a race of redneck criminals starting their own civilization. In a sector completely isolated from Earth, and with limited resources, of course they're going to end up fighting each other. And when rebels get so out-of-hand that nuclear weapons can't keep them tame, the prospect of taming savage aliens that reproduce quickly seems like a possibly good way to enforce the government's power over the Koprulu Sector. Even the UED's ultimate goal was to control the Zerg.
Really the Protoss are a metaphor for the follies of unilateral military intervention. See, the Zerg began infesting the Terrans, and rather than approach the Terrans as equals and cooperate in defeating the Swarm, the Protoss decided that, as the biggest and baddest military power in the sector, they would take the easier approach and just evaporate everything. Never mind the loss of innocent lives; it's for everyone's greater good (well, except the Zerg, but everyone hates them). The fact that some Terran elements were experimenting on the Zerg probably reaffirmed their self-righteousness.
This absurd self-importance facilitates the collapse of the existing Terran political structure, enabling Arcturus Mengsk's rise to power (sound familiar?). It also leads to what probably seemed at the time like a fairly insignificant skirmish on board a Terran space platform called New Gettysburg - the event which led to the rise of the Queen of Blades. Tassadar finally disobeys the Conclave because he is troubled by their disregard for Terran lives, and they ostracize him in return - a move which prompts a civil war and allows the Overmind to manifest on Aiur. By the time they've come together and acknowledged their follies, their homeworld is destroyed and their hegemony is ended - even with the assistance of two Terran armies, they can't defeat the now dominant forces of Kerrigan.
That's a very oversimplified version of a very complex situation. If the Zerg were to ever successfully assimilate a Terran ghost into their ranks -- which they eventually did on a smaller scale -- it would be impossible to deal with the Zerg. The Protoss had to destroy the colony at Chau Sara, but by that time, the Zerg had already sent forces to Mar Sara.
I've never claimed that the Protoss were above making mistakes. I've said the opposite, which is that the Protoss are flawed and their history reflects that. Their mistakes during both campaigns are numerous. The Zerg would not have located Aiur, ironically, if Zeratul had not killed Zasz. In a way, this kind of validates the Conclave's persecution of the Dark Templar, who saw the Dark Templar's reality-bending psionics to be dangerous and unpredictable. But how could Tassadar foresee that the Overmind would be able to find the location of Aiur through the loss of a cerebrate? It's clear that he made this decision after trying several methods to deal with the Zerg unsuccessfully. A Protoss-Confederacy alliance would likely have made little difference since neither knew exactly how to kill the Zerg.
The Zerg commit completely to their attack on Aiur, which saves humanity. Nine of the fourteen Terran worlds were wiped out completely by the Zerg, and if the Zerg had not pulled back to attack Aiur, there would be no Koprulu Sector to return to in the Brood War campaign. As we know, though, the Overmind manifests itself on Aiur and is eventually killed by Tassadar. With the Overmind dead, I think it was assumed that the Zerg would die off, but we all know in hindsight that this was not the case.
The Brood War campaign introduces us to the Zerg's resiliency as a race, and the campaign focuses on who will ultimately rule over the Zerg now that the Overmind is dead. The UED has a big stake in controlling the Zerg, as does Kerrigan. The cerebrates in the Koprulu sector merged themselves into a new Overmind on the lava world of Char, and while the Protoss and Terran Dominion see the Zerg as their primary enemy, they are forced into an unlikely alliance with Kerrigan once it becomes clear that the UED is the biggest threat to all of them.
Everyone has their own agenda and Kerrigan backstabs all her allies. She kills the Overmind on Char, and that sets up the final battle on the space platform above Char. The reason the UED, Dominion, and Artanis cannot defeat the Zerg in the Omega battle is not because the Zerg are too strong. It is an unlikely victory, as a majority of the Zerg were on the surface of Char. The UED has lost huge numbers throughout the campaign, and went from being the biggest threat in the galaxy to a pathetic force trying to salvage a victory that they almost certainly should have won. It is because of this victory that the Zerg re-emerge as the strongest faction in the sector, and perhaps, the galaxy.
Fair enough. But I maintain that the unilateral mentality of the Protoss in the first campaign is a major factor in their eventual fall from galactic police to outcasts on a strange planet.
Who were they supposed to partner with? The Confederacy? The Confederacy knew about the Chau Sara attack before Tassadar's fleet even arrived, had knowledge of the Zerg, and still did nothing.
On November 19 2016 07:22 ninazerg wrote: As we know, though, the Overmind manifests itself on Aiur and is eventually killed by Tassadar. With the Overmind dead, I think it was assumed that the Zerg would die off, but we all know in hindsight that this was not the case.
On November 19 2016 07:22 ninazerg wrote: The cerebrates in the Koprulu sector merged themselves into a new Overmind on the lava world of Char
I wonder how that must've felt like for a cerebrate.
On November 16 2016 05:27 Jerubaal wrote: Zerglings don't live long enough to need to eat.
Also, how do Protoss get nutrients? Just because you photosynthesize doesn't mean you don't need nutrients.
I dont get it. If you can provide energy for an intelligent being on another basis as a human digestive system, you don't need nutrients.. thats the whole sense behind it otherwise you dont need another concept to produce energy.
I wish blizzard would release some protoss cooking 101 or zerg cooking basics, but I'm afraid that the zerg one will be filled with how to cook marine fillet, while the protoss one will be filled with grilled hydra skulls
On November 16 2016 05:27 Jerubaal wrote: Zerglings don't live long enough to need to eat.
Also, how do Protoss get nutrients? Just because you photosynthesize doesn't mean you don't need nutrients.
I dont get it. If you can provide energy for an intelligent being on another basis as a human digestive system, you don't need nutrients.. thats the whole sense behind it otherwise you dont need another concept to produce energy.
Protoss draw their energy directly from the Khala, which is why they need pylons.
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/10/21/1445424736885/13e7bfe7-4f5b-4270-938b-b6616af995fc-1020x612.jpeg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TErNX1m.gif)
![[image loading]](http://web.qbi.uq.edu.au/ecovis/Images/stomatopods/O%20scyllarus%20eye.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://media.giphy.com/media/ws1eTpLPkYKoU/giphy.gif)
