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Hey guys I'm working on a presentation and I wasn't able to figure out how to get TLPD to show me OSL win-loss records for TvP PvZ and ZvT
That is, is there a (mostly) completed win-loss statistic for every OSL game played (in Brood War)?
Thanks!
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Thanks Cryoc! Yeah if nobody knows of a better way to query the data I'm looking for then I might just write my own script to go through each OSL separately and aggregate the data.
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United States2948 Posts
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Koreans have a 95 percent winrate
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On March 21 2016 06:07 prech wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2016 02:00 StarN wrote:
Hey guys I'm working on a presentation and I wasn't able to figure out how to get TLPD to show me OSL win-loss records for TvP PvZ and ZvT
That is, is there a (mostly) completed win-loss statistic for every OSL game played (in Brood War)?
Alas, didn't separate based on the league itself (OSL, MSL, etc,), but cumulatively for the Korean leagues -- For individual standard leagues (non-show matches):  v  1254-1042 or 54.6% v  1192-1139 or 51.1% v 1871-1597 or 54.0% For team standard leagues (non-show matches) v 709-644 or 52.4% v 742-702 or 51.4% v 800-684 or 53.9%
Yup, there's still a bit of imba. Not a whole lot, but some.
I thought maps were supposed to take care of ALL of that? Some ppl say so, anyway. 
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not all maps are created equal. not sure what you want to prove, but there are too many variables in these statistics to draw some kind of concrete evidence of anything.
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On March 21 2016 14:35 art_of_turtle wrote:
not all maps are created equal. not sure what you want to prove, but there are too many variables in these statistics to draw some kind of concrete evidence of anything.
I dunno... the larger the sample size, the more valid the results, all else being equal. The sample sizes do seem large enough, though of course the data is not granular at all.
On the plus side, TvP looks pretty much balanced at the pro level, very broadly-speaking of course.
What would be nice if there were a graph that showed win rates over time, so one could see how the meta effects shifted through the years, and if said meta changes removed imbalances successfully long-term, or if it was just a temporary phenomenon, as counter-strats evolved (example: ZvP win rates pre-Bisu build, then during the height of the Bisu build years, and then 'post-Bisu build' as the counter builds appeared and became commonplace).
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I mean to be fair to get exactly 50% is going to be near impossible.
Let's hypothetically say all the races are balanced and on all the maps being played. If the best player in the world is a Zerg or a Terran, that's going to skew the statistics. If a Terran player is winning 75% of his games, the statistics aren't going to be 50/50/50.
The win rates being shown I think prove that the game is pretty balanced, of course we know it depends on the map. However 54% really isn't that much more.
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Actually I'm pretty impressed by these numbers. Less than 55% in all match ups including ZvP. I guess ideal would be less than 5% difference in any match up, so 52.5/47.5, but less than 10% is already what we can call balanced winrates imo.
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On March 21 2016 06:07 prech wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2016 02:00 StarN wrote:
Hey guys I'm working on a presentation and I wasn't able to figure out how to get TLPD to show me OSL win-loss records for TvP PvZ and ZvT
That is, is there a (mostly) completed win-loss statistic for every OSL game played (in Brood War)?
Alas, didn't separate based on the league itself (OSL, MSL, etc,), but cumulatively for the Korean leagues -- For individual standard leagues (non-show matches): v 1254-1042 or 54.6% v 1192-1139 or 51.1% v 1871-1597 or 54.0% For team standard leagues (non-show matches) v 709-644 or 52.4% v 742-702 or 51.4% v 800-684 or 53.9%
It shows PvT is the most balanced non-mirror matchup, while TvZ and PvZ are the most broken non-mirror matchups. Terrans have had it good over the years....the "P>T>Z>P" doesn't really affect them very much because PvT is so balanced.
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On March 21 2016 13:29 [[Starlight]] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2016 06:07 prech wrote:On March 21 2016 02:00 StarN wrote:
Hey guys I'm working on a presentation and I wasn't able to figure out how to get TLPD to show me OSL win-loss records for TvP PvZ and ZvT
That is, is there a (mostly) completed win-loss statistic for every OSL game played (in Brood War)?
Alas, didn't separate based on the league itself (OSL, MSL, etc,), but cumulatively for the Korean leagues -- For individual standard leagues (non-show matches): v 1254-1042 or 54.6% v 1192-1139 or 51.1% v 1871-1597 or 54.0% For team standard leagues (non-show matches) v 709-644 or 52.4% v 742-702 or 51.4% v 800-684 or 53.9% Yup, there's still a bit of imba. Not a whole lot, but some. I thought maps were supposed to take care of ALL of that? Some ppl say so, anyway.
This is over the course of what, 13 years of competitive play? How much has the meta shifted in one race's favor, how much have the maps changed? Lol.
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I would like to see the race statistics of iccup games :3
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On March 21 2016 20:45 [[Starlight]] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2016 14:35 art_of_turtle wrote:
not all maps are created equal. not sure what you want to prove, but there are too many variables in these statistics to draw some kind of concrete evidence of anything. I dunno... the larger the sample size, the more valid the results, all else being equal. The sample sizes do seem large enough, though of course the data is not granular at all. On the plus side, TvP looks pretty much balanced at the pro level, very broadly-speaking of course. What would be nice if there were a graph that showed win rates over time, so one could see how the meta effects shifted through the years, and if said meta changes removed imbalances successfully long-term, or if it was just a temporary phenomenon, as counter-strats evolved (example: ZvP win rates pre-Bisu build, then during the height of the Bisu build years, and then 'post-Bisu build' as the counter builds appeared and became commonplace).
Actually there is a lot of truth to what he says because there are a lot of shitty imbal maps that were used throughout the OSL, MSL, WCG, and GSL.
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On March 22 2016 11:22 puppykiller wrote:
I would like to see the race statistics of iccup games :3
http://www.fightingspirit.nz/iccup-reranked/map
At the very bottom of the page you can see stats from ~6 months ago that were a total of the previous few months.
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On March 22 2016 10:52 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2016 13:29 [[Starlight]] wrote:On March 21 2016 06:07 prech wrote:On March 21 2016 02:00 StarN wrote:
Hey guys I'm working on a presentation and I wasn't able to figure out how to get TLPD to show me OSL win-loss records for TvP PvZ and ZvT
That is, is there a (mostly) completed win-loss statistic for every OSL game played (in Brood War)?
Alas, didn't separate based on the league itself (OSL, MSL, etc,), but cumulatively for the Korean leagues -- For individual standard leagues (non-show matches): v 1254-1042 or 54.6% v 1192-1139 or 51.1% v 1871-1597 or 54.0% For team standard leagues (non-show matches) v 709-644 or 52.4% v 742-702 or 51.4% v 800-684 or 53.9% Yup, there's still a bit of imba. Not a whole lot, but some. I thought maps were supposed to take care of ALL of that? Some ppl say so, anyway. This is over the course of what, 13 years of competitive play? How much has the meta shifted in one race's favor, how much have the maps changed? Lol.
Was way ahead of ya there, mon Capitaine Obvious. See post #8. 'Lol'. 
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On March 22 2016 11:28 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2016 20:45 [[Starlight]] wrote:On March 21 2016 14:35 art_of_turtle wrote:
not all maps are created equal. not sure what you want to prove, but there are too many variables in these statistics to draw some kind of concrete evidence of anything. I dunno... the larger the sample size, the more valid the results, all else being equal. The sample sizes do seem large enough, though of course the data is not granular at all. On the plus side, TvP looks pretty much balanced at the pro level, very broadly-speaking of course. What would be nice if there were a graph that showed win rates over time, so one could see how the meta effects shifted through the years, and if said meta changes removed imbalances successfully long-term, or if it was just a temporary phenomenon, as counter-strats evolved (example: ZvP win rates pre-Bisu build, then during the height of the Bisu build years, and then 'post-Bisu build' as the counter builds appeared and became commonplace). Actually there is a lot of truth to what he says because there are a lot of shitty imbal maps that were used throughout the OSL, MSL, WCG, and GSL.
Wouldn't that tend to cancel out over time?, i.e. the imba maps wouldn't all be imbalanced in the same direction.
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On March 22 2016 16:21 [[Starlight]] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2016 10:52 Jealous wrote:On March 21 2016 13:29 [[Starlight]] wrote:On March 21 2016 06:07 prech wrote:On March 21 2016 02:00 StarN wrote:
Hey guys I'm working on a presentation and I wasn't able to figure out how to get TLPD to show me OSL win-loss records for TvP PvZ and ZvT
That is, is there a (mostly) completed win-loss statistic for every OSL game played (in Brood War)?
Alas, didn't separate based on the league itself (OSL, MSL, etc,), but cumulatively for the Korean leagues -- For individual standard leagues (non-show matches): v 1254-1042 or 54.6% v 1192-1139 or 51.1% v 1871-1597 or 54.0% For team standard leagues (non-show matches) v 709-644 or 52.4% v 742-702 or 51.4% v 800-684 or 53.9% Yup, there's still a bit of imba. Not a whole lot, but some. I thought maps were supposed to take care of ALL of that? Some ppl say so, anyway. This is over the course of what, 13 years of competitive play? How much has the meta shifted in one race's favor, how much have the maps changed? Lol. Was way ahead of ya there, mon Capitaine Obvious. See post #8. 'Lol'.
But you ignored the maps doe. We all know that if the maps had been more balanced, Jaedong would win 8 finals in a row.
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On March 22 2016 16:42 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2016 16:21 [[Starlight]] wrote:On March 22 2016 10:52 Jealous wrote:On March 21 2016 13:29 [[Starlight]] wrote:On March 21 2016 06:07 prech wrote:On March 21 2016 02:00 StarN wrote:
Hey guys I'm working on a presentation and I wasn't able to figure out how to get TLPD to show me OSL win-loss records for TvP PvZ and ZvT
That is, is there a (mostly) completed win-loss statistic for every OSL game played (in Brood War)?
Alas, didn't separate based on the league itself (OSL, MSL, etc,), but cumulatively for the Korean leagues -- For individual standard leagues (non-show matches): v 1254-1042 or 54.6% v 1192-1139 or 51.1% v 1871-1597 or 54.0% For team standard leagues (non-show matches) v 709-644 or 52.4% v 742-702 or 51.4% v 800-684 or 53.9% Yup, there's still a bit of imba. Not a whole lot, but some. I thought maps were supposed to take care of ALL of that? Some ppl say so, anyway. This is over the course of what, 13 years of competitive play? How much has the meta shifted in one race's favor, how much have the maps changed? Lol. Was way ahead of ya there, mon Capitaine Obvious. See post #8. 'Lol'. But you ignored the maps doe. We all know that if the maps had been more balanced, Jaedong would win 8 finals in a row.
So Flash never beat Jaedong, it was all just the mean ol' maps' doing??? 
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On March 22 2016 17:46 [[Starlight]] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2016 16:42 Jealous wrote:On March 22 2016 16:21 [[Starlight]] wrote:On March 22 2016 10:52 Jealous wrote:On March 21 2016 13:29 [[Starlight]] wrote:On March 21 2016 06:07 prech wrote:On March 21 2016 02:00 StarN wrote:
Hey guys I'm working on a presentation and I wasn't able to figure out how to get TLPD to show me OSL win-loss records for TvP PvZ and ZvT
That is, is there a (mostly) completed win-loss statistic for every OSL game played (in Brood War)?
Alas, didn't separate based on the league itself (OSL, MSL, etc,), but cumulatively for the Korean leagues -- For individual standard leagues (non-show matches): v 1254-1042 or 54.6% v 1192-1139 or 51.1% v 1871-1597 or 54.0% For team standard leagues (non-show matches) v 709-644 or 52.4% v 742-702 or 51.4% v 800-684 or 53.9% Yup, there's still a bit of imba. Not a whole lot, but some. I thought maps were supposed to take care of ALL of that? Some ppl say so, anyway. This is over the course of what, 13 years of competitive play? How much has the meta shifted in one race's favor, how much have the maps changed? Lol. Was way ahead of ya there, mon Capitaine Obvious. See post #8. 'Lol'. But you ignored the maps doe. We all know that if the maps had been more balanced, Jaedong would win 8 finals in a row. So Flash never beat Jaedong, it was all just the mean ol' maps' doing??
It's really KeSPA and mapmaker's fault, but Flash is not free of blame either.
Source
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On March 22 2016 17:49 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2016 17:46 [[Starlight]] wrote:On March 22 2016 16:42 Jealous wrote:On March 22 2016 16:21 [[Starlight]] wrote:On March 22 2016 10:52 Jealous wrote:On March 21 2016 13:29 [[Starlight]] wrote:On March 21 2016 06:07 prech wrote:On March 21 2016 02:00 StarN wrote:
Hey guys I'm working on a presentation and I wasn't able to figure out how to get TLPD to show me OSL win-loss records for TvP PvZ and ZvT
That is, is there a (mostly) completed win-loss statistic for every OSL game played (in Brood War)?
Alas, didn't separate based on the league itself (OSL, MSL, etc,), but cumulatively for the Korean leagues -- For individual standard leagues (non-show matches): v 1254-1042 or 54.6% v 1192-1139 or 51.1% v 1871-1597 or 54.0% For team standard leagues (non-show matches) v 709-644 or 52.4% v 742-702 or 51.4% v 800-684 or 53.9% Yup, there's still a bit of imba. Not a whole lot, but some. I thought maps were supposed to take care of ALL of that? Some ppl say so, anyway. This is over the course of what, 13 years of competitive play? How much has the meta shifted in one race's favor, how much have the maps changed? Lol. Was way ahead of ya there, mon Capitaine Obvious. See post #8. 'Lol'. But you ignored the maps doe. We all know that if the maps had been more balanced, Jaedong would win 8 finals in a row. So Flash never beat Jaedong, it was all just the mean ol' maps' doing?? It's really KeSPA and mapmaker's fault, but Flash is not free of blame either. Source
Ah, okay, so you're just mad at that guy in the other thread and want to rub it in. Got it.
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On March 22 2016 17:49 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2016 17:46 [[Starlight]] wrote:On March 22 2016 16:42 Jealous wrote:On March 22 2016 16:21 [[Starlight]] wrote:On March 22 2016 10:52 Jealous wrote:On March 21 2016 13:29 [[Starlight]] wrote:On March 21 2016 06:07 prech wrote:On March 21 2016 02:00 StarN wrote:
Hey guys I'm working on a presentation and I wasn't able to figure out how to get TLPD to show me OSL win-loss records for TvP PvZ and ZvT
That is, is there a (mostly) completed win-loss statistic for every OSL game played (in Brood War)?
Alas, didn't separate based on the league itself (OSL, MSL, etc,), but cumulatively for the Korean leagues -- For individual standard leagues (non-show matches): v 1254-1042 or 54.6% v 1192-1139 or 51.1% v 1871-1597 or 54.0% For team standard leagues (non-show matches) v 709-644 or 52.4% v 742-702 or 51.4% v 800-684 or 53.9% Yup, there's still a bit of imba. Not a whole lot, but some. I thought maps were supposed to take care of ALL of that? Some ppl say so, anyway. This is over the course of what, 13 years of competitive play? How much has the meta shifted in one race's favor, how much have the maps changed? Lol. Was way ahead of ya there, mon Capitaine Obvious. See post #8. 'Lol'. But you ignored the maps doe. We all know that if the maps had been more balanced, Jaedong would win 8 finals in a row. So Flash never beat Jaedong, it was all just the mean ol' maps' doing?? It's really KeSPA and mapmaker's fault, but Flash is not free of blame either. Source
yes he is. and you have no way of proving that JD lost all those finals just becouse of maps
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On March 22 2016 17:56 [[Starlight]] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2016 17:49 Jealous wrote:On March 22 2016 17:46 [[Starlight]] wrote:On March 22 2016 16:42 Jealous wrote:On March 22 2016 16:21 [[Starlight]] wrote:On March 22 2016 10:52 Jealous wrote:On March 21 2016 13:29 [[Starlight]] wrote:On March 21 2016 06:07 prech wrote:On March 21 2016 02:00 StarN wrote:
Hey guys I'm working on a presentation and I wasn't able to figure out how to get TLPD to show me OSL win-loss records for TvP PvZ and ZvT
That is, is there a (mostly) completed win-loss statistic for every OSL game played (in Brood War)?
Alas, didn't separate based on the league itself (OSL, MSL, etc,), but cumulatively for the Korean leagues -- For individual standard leagues (non-show matches): v 1254-1042 or 54.6% v 1192-1139 or 51.1% v 1871-1597 or 54.0% For team standard leagues (non-show matches) v 709-644 or 52.4% v 742-702 or 51.4% v 800-684 or 53.9% Yup, there's still a bit of imba. Not a whole lot, but some. I thought maps were supposed to take care of ALL of that? Some ppl say so, anyway. This is over the course of what, 13 years of competitive play? How much has the meta shifted in one race's favor, how much have the maps changed? Lol. Was way ahead of ya there, mon Capitaine Obvious. See post #8. 'Lol'. But you ignored the maps doe. We all know that if the maps had been more balanced, Jaedong would win 8 finals in a row. So Flash never beat Jaedong, it was all just the mean ol' maps' doing?? It's really KeSPA and mapmaker's fault, but Flash is not free of blame either. Source Ah, okay, so you're just mad at that guy in the other thread and want to rub it in. Got it.
Guess I shoulda added a /s at the end of the initial post to be more obvious ):
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On March 22 2016 17:58 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2016 17:56 [[Starlight]] wrote:On March 22 2016 17:49 Jealous wrote:On March 22 2016 17:46 [[Starlight]] wrote:On March 22 2016 16:42 Jealous wrote:On March 22 2016 16:21 [[Starlight]] wrote:On March 22 2016 10:52 Jealous wrote:On March 21 2016 13:29 [[Starlight]] wrote:On March 21 2016 06:07 prech wrote:On March 21 2016 02:00 StarN wrote:
Hey guys I'm working on a presentation and I wasn't able to figure out how to get TLPD to show me OSL win-loss records for TvP PvZ and ZvT
That is, is there a (mostly) completed win-loss statistic for every OSL game played (in Brood War)?
Alas, didn't separate based on the league itself (OSL, MSL, etc,), but cumulatively for the Korean leagues -- For individual standard leagues (non-show matches): v 1254-1042 or 54.6% v 1192-1139 or 51.1% v 1871-1597 or 54.0% For team standard leagues (non-show matches) v 709-644 or 52.4% v 742-702 or 51.4% v 800-684 or 53.9% Yup, there's still a bit of imba. Not a whole lot, but some. I thought maps were supposed to take care of ALL of that? Some ppl say so, anyway. This is over the course of what, 13 years of competitive play? How much has the meta shifted in one race's favor, how much have the maps changed? Lol. Was way ahead of ya there, mon Capitaine Obvious. See post #8. 'Lol'. But you ignored the maps doe. We all know that if the maps had been more balanced, Jaedong would win 8 finals in a row. So Flash never beat Jaedong, it was all just the mean ol' maps' doing?? It's really KeSPA and mapmaker's fault, but Flash is not free of blame either. Source Ah, okay, so you're just mad at that guy in the other thread and want to rub it in. Got it. Guess I shoulda added a /s at the end of the initial post to be more obvious ):
Sarcasm can be a tough art to master.
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Thank you Prech for helping me! Very interesting findings.
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On March 22 2016 11:22 puppykiller wrote:
I would like to see the race statistics of iccup games :3
2009
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rm91OAF.png)
2016
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oiY1ftc.png)
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EPT
