EPTOmg.. Sea is just awesome.. this video def. helps me out with all things that I have trouble with in TvP. Esp on Fighting Spirit. This is a must watch if your a Terran player that gets owned by Protoss all the time.
Sea vs. Bisu Fighting Spirit (fpvod)
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nobot87
United States23 Posts
Omg.. Sea is just awesome.. this video def. helps me out with all things that I have trouble with in TvP. Esp on Fighting Spirit. This is a must watch if your a Terran player that gets owned by Protoss all the time. | ||
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Filco
France154 Posts
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nobot87
United States23 Posts
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salito
1647 Posts
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KameZerg
Sweden1764 Posts
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SolaR-
United States2685 Posts
On December 10 2014 07:53 ICanFlyLow wrote: What the hell? Look at 20:55, the arbiter got hit by the EMP but still recalled... ? Yea that has happened to me before. Bisu must of hit recall as it was getting emped so it did anyways. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10673 Posts
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Yaqoob
Canada3328 Posts
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ArmadA[NaS]
United States347 Posts
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Jaded.
United States125 Posts
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prech
United States2948 Posts
 Here's the rest of this Bo5 series http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=23412785 | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19240 Posts
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wmb
Sweden282 Posts
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On December 10 2014 07:53 ICanFlyLow wrote: What the hell? Look at 20:55, the arbiter got hit by the EMP but still recalled... ? If you remove the arbiter's energy when it has already started the recall sequence, it is too late. There's a delay between starting the sequence, and any graphical signs being given. I actually like that it is this way. It's good for the game's balance, and makes both stasis and recall stronger. Recalls especially become less of a gimmick and more of a solid option because of this. If EMP instantly stopped arbiters, then recalls would never work if the Terran was paying attention, but always work if he was not That wouldn't be very good. | ||
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zimp
Hungary951 Posts
On December 10 2014 13:01 vOdToasT wrote: If you remove the arbiter's energy when it has already started the recall sequence, it is too late. There's a delay between starting the sequence, and any graphical signs being given. I actually like that it is this way. It's good for the game's balance, and makes both stasis and recall stronger. Recalls especially become less of a gimmick and more of a solid option because of this. If EMP instantly stopped arbiters, then recalls would never work if the Terran was paying attention, but always work if he was not That wouldn't be very good. lol. Protoss users miss common sense and logic too often. You like it because you are a protoss and you like that it helps you. I really dislike how emp works because it makes stasis imbalanced, and it worsens the already imbalanced recall. Recalls SHOULD be more of a gimmick, and not a race-threatening tactic, a "solid option". If EMP instantly stopped arbiters, then recalls would never work if the Terran was paying attention, but always work if he was not. Why wouldn't that be very good? That would be very good and fair. Let me explain. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9BeIFgR.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/doFt1sW.gif) Even if the terran pays attention and reacts faster, the recall may be casted because of the delay between the start of the emp animation and the empwave hitting. So the terran player reacts faster, but still the protoss player "wins". How is that good and fair ROFL If EMP worked instantly, that would be fair. The game should favorize the player with the faster reaction. In bw, now, the terran player not only has to see the arbiter on the minimap, go there, hit a moving target with a moving delayed emp, but also he has to do it way faster than the protoss. It's clearly not right this way LOL Not to mention stasis, cause that's even worse. It often happens that the vessel starts to go towards an arbiter, so the terran already casted his spell, but later than that, the arbiter casts a stasis, which has basicly instant casting time and even greater radius, so the vessel is stopped (and the emp casted into nothing after the freeze) or often times killed. so the terran had a way faster reaction, but still the toss won the "spell battle". | ||
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Probemicro
3708 Posts
in the gif the vessel should ideally be nearer to the cliff edge when the arbiter arrives which would allow the terran to spot and land the emp on the arbiter faster. the problem is even for a single base there are lot of angles of entry to cover and its much easier on the toss side to spot a gap in the turret/vessel defence. which can still be shored up with preemptive mines on probable recall spots. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On December 10 2014 14:31 zimp wrote: lol. Protoss users miss common sense and logic too often. You like it because you are a protoss and you like that it helps you. I really dislike how emp works because it makes stasis imbalanced, and it worsens the already imbalanced recall. Recalls SHOULD be more of a gimmick, and not a race-threatening tactic, a "solid option". If EMP instantly stopped arbiters, then recalls would never work if the Terran was paying attention, but always work if he was not. Why wouldn't that be very good? That would be very good and fair. Let me explain. Even if the terran pays attention and reacts faster, the recall may be casted because of the delay between the start of the emp animation and the empwave hitting. So the terran player reacts faster, but still the protoss player "wins". How is that good and fair ROFL If EMP worked instantly, that would be fair. The game should favorize the player with the faster reaction. In bw, now, the terran player not only has to see the arbiter on the minimap, go there, hit a moving target with a moving delayed emp, but also he has to do it way faster than the protoss. It's clearly not right this way LOL Not to mention stasis, cause that's even worse. It often happens that the vessel starts to go towards an arbiter, so the terran already casted his spell, but later than that, the arbiter casts a stasis, which has basicly instant casting time and even greater radius, so the vessel is stopped (and the emp casted into nothing after the freeze) or often times killed. so the terran had a way faster reaction, but still the toss won the "spell battle". Except Voddy has played all races as his main, not to mention as far as I know he currently mains terran as well. Not to mention just because you play a certain race doesn't have any impact on rational thoughts on whether something is good or bad...unless you use "is it good for ME?" as your basis, but if you do that then at that point you're not being rational. | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On December 10 2014 14:31 zimp wrote: lol. Protoss users miss common sense and logic too often. You like it because you are a protoss and you like that it helps you. I really dislike how emp works because it makes stasis imbalanced, and it worsens the already imbalanced recall. Recalls SHOULD be more of a gimmick, and not a race-threatening tactic, a "solid option". If EMP instantly stopped arbiters, then recalls would never work if the Terran was paying attention, but always work if he was not. Why wouldn't that be very good? That would be very good and fair. Even if the terran pays attention and reacts faster, the recall may be casted because of the delay between the start of the emp animation and the empwave hitting. So the terran player reacts faster, but still the protoss player "wins". How is that good and fair ROFL If EMP worked instantly, that would be fair. The game should favorize the player with the faster reaction. In bw, now, the terran player not only has to see the arbiter on the minimap, go there, hit a moving target with a moving delayed emp, but also he has to do it way faster than the protoss. It's clearly not right this way LOL Not to mention stasis, cause that's even worse. It often happens that the vessel starts to go towards an arbiter, so the terran already casted his spell, but later than that, the arbiter casts a stasis, which has basicly instant casting time and even greater radius, so the vessel is stopped (and the emp casted into nothing after the freeze) or often times killed. so the terran had a way faster reaction, but still the toss won the "spell battle". I play Terran Get rid of your baseless preconceived notions As for your second point, I don't like gimmicks. I like for every thing to be solid. The way EMP and spells work now, gives a higher skill ceiling than the alternative. Dropships shouldn't be a gimmick that destroy all probes if the Protoss is out of position, but completely worthless if he is ready. Same with storm drops, mutalisks, and, yes, recalls. Your argument about reaction time is invalid, because Protoss needs to fly in to position in order to recall. Therefor, if EMP negated spells instantly, the Terran would be able to defend vs recalls every single time just by paying attention, since the arbiter needs to fly a long way to a good spot. It would literally be that simple. The way it is now, there are more variables, more depth, a higher skill ceiling, and it's more interesting. It's very satisfying to position a science vessel very far out, so that the arbiter couldn't possibly fly past it - despite the delay. This makes the Protoss want to fly around the vessel and approach from an other angle, since the further out you are, the more defended that angle is, but the less defended other angles are. What the protoss doesn't know, is that the other spots have mines everywhere. You lure the Protoss to recall on to mines. You can also use an opposite method. You can have vessels close to the base, so that every angle is defended decently, but not well enough to deal with the delay. However, this forces the protoss to recall on the edge, and not at the center, which means that if you have mines and turrets around the edge, he has to recall on to mines. By the way, in the GIF that you posted, the science vessel was massively out of posiiton. | ||
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zimp
Hungary951 Posts
but i don't get how can you think that way, i mean i get your points, and these could be right if things happened like that in practice. but in reality, on the level of an average bw player, "just by paying attention", its almost impossible to spot an incoming arbiter and react to it in time. it happens maybe 1 out of 5 or 10 times. a lot of times you don't even have emp yet when the first recall comes. the point with the positioning and mines are similar too. you can position your vessel somewhere, but the arbiters can come from a lot of directions. you can mine some part of your base, but don't have time for all, and even if you lay some mines, most of his units survive even if landing on top of it. all these things require high input of apm and skill from the terran and low level of apm and skill from the toss. i get that on pro level, it might be different, but thats not all that matters, i rather think it's less important than the games of the masses. if there's no balance on D-C level, the game is not right. and thats my experience of it as a player too, i am a C rank terran, and sometimes C-/D+ tosses beat me with recalls, or achieve a close game. AND i recently started playing toss and i achieved C even easier against T than with my original race, raping lower level terrans, and even winning vs C, sometimes higher ranked terrans with recall. and by the way, the vessel was not "massively out of position". it was in the middle of the base (12 oclock). if it was more to the south, than an arbiter from the left would be even worse. | ||
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zimp
Hungary951 Posts
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