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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Hi. I've recently gotten into StarCraft and there seems to be so many things to focus on! My micro is alright (for a newbie), but my macro is all over the place, mostly non-existent. I always forget to expand too. 
So naturally, I turn to the Liquid community  . Can you give me some tips on how to get better in general, how to remember to keep producing units, build production buildings, etc. other than to practice over and over?
Thanks in advance. 
edit: Please don't just say "play lots of games". I realize that I have to do that. But, I was referring to tips on how to remember to macro, expand, etc. better because I always forget. There's got to be a better way than just play over and over, cause I know a lot of people who play a lot but don't know wth they're doing (hence they suck, and even I can beat them).
edit2: if you think that practice, practice, and practice is the only way to go (no shortcuts), please say so. I want to see how many people think that.
edit3: ok, so I posted 2 games that I've played today. Please don't comment on how crappy my friends are... I know they're not that good, but I honestly don't have a replay where I lose... Just try to look at the million things I'm doing wrong. I'm lotus.leaf, btw.
Game before I started practicing against the comp a little:
First Replay
Game after I practiced:
Second Replay
Any constructive criticism would be appreciated
edit4!: if you watched my replay, how was my build order? did I scout too late? what's the one thing I neglected to do during the game that you want to point out? (two's better)
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On November 09 2006 19:35 alffla wrote:
play lots of games
Other than that. I know I have to do that, but I would like to make my practice sessions more efficient. So I need tips, advices. Thanks
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infinity21 you can start by not making shitty threads. Otherwise practice a lot, the way to make your practice sessions more efficient is if you know what you have to work on, so work on that. If you have a replay to post, post it in the strategy section.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Gee, thanks for the tip -___-;
Is anyone actually interested in helping me, or are you all going to flame me for asking for help?
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infinity21 playing a lot of games is the answer. There isn't a shortcut or magic wand to make you good at BW automatically. You already know what your weakness is, so just focus more on it during games, and you will gradually get better. The only advice I'd give is to hotkey your troops and buildings so you can switch back and forth more easily
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Play games, watch your replays.
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On November 09 2006 19:50 infinity21 wrote:
Gee, thanks for the tip -___-;
Is anyone actually interested in helping me, or are you all going to flame me for asking for help?
Well this type of thread deserves a flame. Theres SO much information on this site, that a simple search should yield everything, or most everything, you need. Read up on the recommended threads, and read Chills (I believe?) general help thread for newbies. Practicing, watching your own reps, and watching reps of pros also is a huge help.
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zulu -__- its a fair question, don't jump on the bandwagon eh?
there are ways to make practice more effective, i'm still learning too, but I found doing one build over and over agaisnt the comuter to be good... i did 9 pool speedlings rush agaist computer protoss... thats good for getting practice with keeping you forces moving while keeping building back home.
good thing with the computer is you can save at the point where you start to have trouble... for me, say it was when my mutas came out and i go to attack... i forget about macroing. so save it before that point and go back and do it over and over untill you get it
another thing to do is to make a map in campain editor that create a huge army and attack moves it towards your base if you go over 500 mins. make it give you at text warning at 400mins. that really makes you keep spending your money 
edit: wow, everyone here jumps too much
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Thanks StarcraftNewb and teh leet newb. I do hotkey my troops and buildings, but I always forget to use them later on... maybe it's a concentration problem.
Edit: Yay people are responding~ Oh, and I did watch a lot of pro replays. It definitely helped me out.
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On November 09 2006 19:50 infinity21 wrote:
Gee, thanks for the tip -___-;
Is anyone actually interested in helping me, or are you all going to flame me for asking for help?
It was perfectly good advice, many people follow that method. If you're asking for advice, at least come with an open mind and not reject anything which you don't liek so quickly.
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On November 09 2006 19:57 infinity21 wrote:
Thanks StarcraftNewb and teh leet newb. I do hotkey my troops and buildings, but I always forget to use them later on... maybe it's a concentration problem. I might offend some people, but Americans seem a lot nicer than Chinese people... .
Don't flame me for that. It's just a limited and biased observation within this thread.
haha......I am Chinese though........lol
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CONSTANT PEON PRODUCTION! =D Make it your only goal for the whole game, the rest will follow. Also, try to accomplish one thing every game, like proper scouting, or proper expanding, good building placement etc, so that you're only focusing on one thing and it's on the tip of your mind. Then, when you've done it successfully, make a new goal, the old goal should still be achieved, without you even thinking much about it.
Try to tap into your cognitive thought all the time though. If you're going through the motions, you're a less active minded player, just hoping your first plan will work.
Good luck, and have fun with this amazing game ^^
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infinity21 if you want some more on-the-spot help, pm me and i can help ^^
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On November 09 2006 19:57 skyglow1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2006 19:50 infinity21 wrote:
Gee, thanks for the tip -___-;
Is anyone actually interested in helping me, or are you all going to flame me for asking for help? It was perfectly good advice, many people follow that method. If you're asking for advice, at least come with an open mind and not reject anything which you don't liek so quickly.
I'm not rejecting the idea. I recall saying asking for advice "other than to practice over and over".
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On November 09 2006 19:44 zulu_nation8 wrote:
infinity21 you can start by not making shitty threads. Otherwise practice a lot, the way to make your practice sessions more efficient is if you know what you have to work on, so work on that. If you have a replay to post, post it in the strategy section.
stfu ;d
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I'd be happy if I were you, it took me about 1.5 years of playin SC before I realized how bad I actually sucked at it.
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On November 09 2006 19:50 infinity21 wrote:
Gee, thanks for the tip -___-;
Is anyone actually interested in helping me, or are you all going to flame me for asking for help?
Do you honestly expect anything else when you say: "I am a newb, and I want to get better, what should I do?"
Answer: Play more
Next time at least provide a replay.
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On November 09 2006 20:01 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2006 19:44 zulu_nation8 wrote:
infinity21 you can start by not making shitty threads. Otherwise practice a lot, the way to make your practice sessions more efficient is if you know what you have to work on, so work on that. If you have a replay to post, post it in the strategy section. stfu ;d
you stfu ;D
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On November 09 2006 19:55 Silver wrote:zulu -__- its a fair question, don't jump on the bandwagon eh? there are ways to make practice more effective, i'm still learning too, but I found doing one build over and over agaisnt the comuter to be good... i did 9 pool speedlings rush agaist computer protoss... thats good for getting practice with keeping you forces moving while keeping building back home. good thing with the computer is you can save at the point where you start to have trouble... for me, say it was when my mutas came out and i go to attack... i forget about macroing. so save it before that point and go back and do it over and over untill you get it another thing to do is to make a map in campain editor that create a huge army and attack moves it towards your base if you go over 500 mins. make it give you at text warning at 400mins. that really makes you keep spending your money edit: wow, everyone here jumps too much
dont play vs the computer please
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Unfortunately, I really don't have decent replays.. I know you guys don't like replays where I win. And all the replays I have are replays of me kicking my friends' asses. -__-; I hardly ever play B.Net any more because I don't have that much time... Instead I play during lunch period at school.
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[QUOTE]On November 09 2006 19:58 StarcraftNewb wrote:
[QUOTE]On November 09 2006 19:57 infinity21 wrote:
Thanks StarcraftNewb and teh leet newb. I do hotkey my troops and buildings, but I always forget to use them later on... maybe it's a concentration problem. I might offend some people, but Americans seem a lot nicer than Chinese people... .
Don't flame me for that. It's just a limited and biased observation within this thread.[/QUOTE]
are you fucking serious? ban this fucker please, i dont care if you edited it
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On November 09 2006 20:04 infinity21 wrote:
Unfortunately, I really don't have decent replays.. I know you guys don't like replays where I win. And all the replays I have are replays of me kicking my friends' asses. -__-; I hardly ever play B.Net any more because I don't have that much time... Instead I play during lunch period at school.
the only way to get better is to play a lot of games, meaning practice over and over and over and over again and not vs people you don't have trouble beating. There is no way around it.
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How do you get better at the piano? Practice.
How do you get better at math? Practice.
How do you get better at soccer? Practice.
Sure, you can break those down into playing scales, doing number theory problems, and working on your kicking, but it's still practice.
On the other hand, if you want strats to study, go to the strategy section. You'll find loads of info there.
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Just keep in mind what you need to work on when you're playing. What type of answer did you expect, a magic way to practice? Of course you got flamed.
Know the basics, then play against decent opponents. After every game, watch the replay and consider what you should have done instead, what you could have done better. Focus on doing that the next game you play.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On November 09 2006 20:13 thedeadhaji wrote:for macro, doing a team melee and handling all the macro with a decent partner is good. Locked would flame th ehell out of me when he was my partner PP
Thanks ^^; that's the kind of tip I was looking for
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On November 09 2006 20:15 azndsh wrote:
Just keep in mind what you need to work on when you're playing. What type of answer did you expect, a magic way to practice? Of course you got flamed.
Know the basics, then play against decent opponents. After every game, watch the replay and consider what you should have done instead, what you could have done better. Focus on doing that the next game you play.
Ok, thanks. I'll try to watch more of my replays. But, for the record, I wasn't expecting a magical way to practice, just tips on how to remember macro, expanding, etc. better during games.
Frankly, I'm surprised at the number of people who decided to just attack me for asking for a tip..
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On November 09 2006 20:00 infinity21 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2006 19:57 skyglow1 wrote:On November 09 2006 19:50 infinity21 wrote:
Gee, thanks for the tip -___-;
Is anyone actually interested in helping me, or are you all going to flame me for asking for help? It was perfectly good advice, many people follow that method. If you're asking for advice, at least come with an open mind and not reject anything which you don't liek so quickly. I'm not rejecting the idea. I recall saying asking for advice "other than to practice over and over".
Read the posts more carefully. Practising over and over without any aim isn't going to get you far. He specifically made clear what you have to do while practising and not just mindless mass gaming.
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Oh, that's another thing you need to be aware of. The only way to get better is to constantly challange yourself and play people who are better than you.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Since some of you guys are asking for replays, I'll post the most recent one that I played, but I don't know how. Where do I post replays? Mind you, my friend sucks....
edit: My friends think I'm "amazing" just because I can beat them every time. I'd also like to help them get better so we can have more enjoyable games.
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United States20661 Posts
http://www.battlereports.com/
You can go there to upload replays.
I think less people would flame if you put a replay. Actually, no, if it was a terrible replay, more people would flame - but you'd also get more constructive feedback as well, if you're willing to take the flaming.
As for me, there's just so much to tell you right now, since I don't even know your race -_-;;
I would say, though, that it is hardest to start as T. I'd start as P and switch races later - one mistake I made was starting as Z. Very sharp learning curve, since Z has the most elastic build orders, and can't really go by food numbers. T is hard just because macroing as T is difficult. P has expensive, strong units, so it's easier to keep money down.
But if you want to start as any race, go ahead. Bar random.
"play more games" it actually does help, even playing against computer helps to a degree. However, a few games against human where you have some idea of what you want to try is much better than several dozen games vs comp where you don't know what you're doing at all T-T;;
So yeah, upl a rep, I'll watch it, some other people will watch it, you'll get comments, you'll implement comments, and get better.
Gogo~
Edit: Upl your three best reps against all three races, for best results ^^V
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Zulu get off your high horse, congrats you have an inflated post count, but that doesn't make glory shine from your asshole -__-
I though you of all people might have some good advie to give, seeing as how you often ask for help in a similar fashion.
...and the computer is excellent practice for complete noobs imporving their basic macro and mulitasking abilities, it really helped me alot.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Oh... crap.. I saved all my replays with WGT Launcher thing with Penguin Plug so basically all my replays are over 300kb. T__T
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On November 09 2006 20:35 Silver wrote:
Zulu get off your high horse, congrats you have an inflated post count, but that doesn't make glory shine from your asshole -__-
I though you of all people might have some good advie to give, seeing as how you often ask for help in a similar fashion.
...and the computer is excellent practice for complete noobs imporving their basic macro and mulitasking abilities, it really helped me alot.
Thanks for that. So it was ok for me to practice agains the comp a lot. ^^;
edit: I found that most of my old replays are less than 300kb but I want to submit a recent one because I suck even more in the older replays.
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On November 09 2006 20:41 infinity21 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2006 20:35 Silver wrote:
Zulu get off your high horse, congrats you have an inflated post count, but that doesn't make glory shine from your asshole -__-
I though you of all people might have some good advie to give, seeing as how you often ask for help in a similar fashion.
...and the computer is excellent practice for complete noobs imporving their basic macro and mulitasking abilities, it really helped me alot. no. zulu is right. the guy should just play more, there isn't much to it. Thanks for that. So it was ok for me to practice agains the comp a lot. ^^; edit: I found that most of my old replays are less than 300kb but I want to submit a recent one because I suck even more in the older replays.
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Here is probably the most simple way to work keep your mind on these things.
Step 1) Get yourself some sticky notes
Step 2) write on them as follows 1. Macro
2. Micro
3. Expand
Step 3) Put this newfound sticky an upper corner of your screen
BAM BAM SHABANG ther ya go that should remind you to do the things.
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this thread is an abomination. Rule #1: SEARCH, Rule #2: search, Rule #3: don't make retarded comments like "american people are generally nicer than the chinese," Rule #4, don't practice against the computer no matter how bad you are, Rule #5, respect forum members who have been here 10x longer than you, i don't mean me since i didn't try to help you, but skyglow did and you acted like a retard
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On November 09 2006 20:35 Silver wrote:
Zulu get off your high horse, congrats you have an inflated post count, but that doesn't make glory shine from your asshole -__-
I though you of all people might have some good advie to give, seeing as how you often ask for help in a similar fashion.
...and the computer is excellent practice for complete noobs imporving their basic macro and mulitasking abilities, it really helped me alot.
im not being an asshole, im trying to discourage shitty threads such as this from appearing. When I ask for help I usually either post a replay or describe in specific detail what I need help with rather than asking people to help me with the area of "General BW". The computer is not excellent practice for complete noobs because it's a million times dumber than you and gives you no pressure at all. If you ever want to play multiplayer in starcraft don't play vs the computer.
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On November 09 2006 20:15 infinity21 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2006 20:13 thedeadhaji wrote:for macro, doing a team melee and handling all the macro with a decent partner is good. Locked would flame th ehell out of me when he was my partner PP Thanks ^^; that's the kind of tip I was looking for
This is not a good idea in my opinion. If you use team melee and some handles the scouting/micro/everything except for macro it doesn't simimulate the pressure you are under in a real game. You'll macro alot better, but its too far off what a real game is like.
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On November 09 2006 20:41 infinity21 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2006 20:35 Silver wrote:
Zulu get off your high horse, congrats you have an inflated post count, but that doesn't make glory shine from your asshole -__-
I though you of all people might have some good advie to give, seeing as how you often ask for help in a similar fashion.
...and the computer is excellent practice for complete noobs imporving their basic macro and mulitasking abilities, it really helped me alot. Thanks for that. So it was ok for me to practice agains the comp a lot. ^^; edit: I found that most of my old replays are less than 300kb but I want to submit a recent one because I suck even more in the older replays.
Next time you use it type "/fprecord off" in a game so its normal size if you didn't know.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On November 09 2006 20:58 skyglow1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2006 20:15 infinity21 wrote:On November 09 2006 20:13 thedeadhaji wrote:for macro, doing a team melee and handling all the macro with a decent partner is good. Locked would flame th ehell out of me when he was my partner PP Thanks ^^; that's the kind of tip I was looking for This is not a good idea in my opinion. If you use team melee and some handles the scouting/micro/everything except for macro it doesn't simimulate the pressure you are under in a real game. You'll macro alot better, but its too far off what a real game is like.
:S so what do you suggest? Write sticky notes like someone suggested, or keep these things in mind?
replays are up, btw.
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wheres the replay, im gonna watch it
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On November 09 2006 21:04 zulu_nation8 wrote:
wheres the replay, im gonna watch it
in the original post as an edit
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On November 09 2006 21:03 infinity21 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2006 20:58 skyglow1 wrote:On November 09 2006 20:15 infinity21 wrote:On November 09 2006 20:13 thedeadhaji wrote:for macro, doing a team melee and handling all the macro with a decent partner is good. Locked would flame th ehell out of me when he was my partner PP Thanks ^^; that's the kind of tip I was looking for This is not a good idea in my opinion. If you use team melee and some handles the scouting/micro/everything except for macro it doesn't simimulate the pressure you are under in a real game. You'll macro alot better, but its too far off what a real game is like. :S so what do you suggest? Write sticky notes like someone suggested, or keep these things in mind? replays are up, btw.
The stuff the first guys said. Just practise with a focus in mind of what you want to improve. Perhaps not that many things at once, say only macro for a number of games (50 games about) and if you really can't remember to macro then a sticky note with maco may help.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On November 09 2006 21:07 skyglow1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2006 21:03 infinity21 wrote:On November 09 2006 20:58 skyglow1 wrote:On November 09 2006 20:15 infinity21 wrote:On November 09 2006 20:13 thedeadhaji wrote:for macro, doing a team melee and handling all the macro with a decent partner is good. Locked would flame th ehell out of me when he was my partner PP Thanks ^^; that's the kind of tip I was looking for This is not a good idea in my opinion. If you use team melee and some handles the scouting/micro/everything except for macro it doesn't simimulate the pressure you are under in a real game. You'll macro alot better, but its too far off what a real game is like. :S so what do you suggest? Write sticky notes like someone suggested, or keep these things in mind? replays are up, btw. The stuff the first guys said. Just practise with a focus in mind of what you want to improve. Perhaps not that many things at once, say only macro for a number of games (50 games about) and if you really can't remember to macro then a sticky note with maco may help.
Thanks. Finally, this thread is going the way I wanted it to.. Maybe I just asked in a wrong way. I played about 20-30 games against the comp where I just tried to expand and macro, so it's a tad better now. But since you say, 50, I'll play 50.
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ok i don't know why i even bothered, infinity21 here are some things to remember if you're actually trying to get better at starcraft, don't play people worse than you, watch replays and copy build orders, practice practice practice as there's no substitute. For other more specific help please go to the strategy section instead of making useless threads. Someone please close this thread.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On November 09 2006 21:11 zulu_nation8 wrote:
ok i don't know why i even bothered, infinity21 here are some things to remember if you're actually trying to get better at starcraft, don't play people worse than you, watch replays and copy build orders, practice practice practice as there's no substitute. For other more specific help please go to the strategy section instead of making useless threads. Someone please close this thread.
Zulu, I don't think you understand my situation... 99% of the games I play are against my friends so I don't have much option. That's the point of this thread: to help me and my friends get better at SC. And also, I wish you would stop calling this thread useless. I got a lot of good tips from other guys, you know. Just because you know these things already, you can't call this thread useless.
Do you have any constructive criticism for me? Because you're being pretty redundant. I'm pretty sure I asked for criticism in things I did wrong, and not to look at my friends.
edit: for example, "hey, it looks like your macro did improve a little but you're still not producing enough units. go build units before you get into a battle so you keep producing units while fighting." or "you should have been more aggressive that game" or "in game 2, you could have expanded like iloveoov and win"
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so you cant play bnet? then how do you wish to get better playing the same people who are a lot worse than you over and over again? What good advice have you gotten from this thread that you couldn'tve thought of by yourself? My constructive criticism for you is to stop being an attention whore + retard.
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watch good friends play.
watch good pro's replays.
maybe watching good VODS and FPVODS would also help.
and remember.. play people who are equal or better than you
gl ^^
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On November 09 2006 21:18 infinity21 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2006 21:11 zulu_nation8 wrote:
ok i don't know why i even bothered, infinity21 here are some things to remember if you're actually trying to get better at starcraft, don't play people worse than you, watch replays and copy build orders, practice practice practice as there's no substitute. For other more specific help please go to the strategy section instead of making useless threads. Someone please close this thread. edit: for example, "hey, it looks like your macro did improve a little but you're still not producing enough units. go build units before you get into a battle so you keep producing units while fighting." or "you should have been more aggressive that game" or "in game 2, you could have expanded like iloveoov and win"
Oh I see then, Infinity after watching the replays I think it looks like your macro did improve a little but you're still not producing enough units. go build units before you get into a battle so you keep producing units while fighting, and you should have been more aggressive that game and also you could have expanded like iloveoov and win? Happy? now stop ruining teamliquid
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You aren't going to get better if you don't have the option of playing people better than you. A computer is far too predictable and is extremely noob after you can figure out how to beat it every time. Your friends sound even worse than the computer so they're not even a challenge either. Playing someone better than you really makes your mistakes show up, but this is not the case if you're stuck playing with your friends for 99% of the time.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On November 09 2006 21:23 zulu_nation8 wrote:
so you cant play bnet? then how do you wish to get better playing the same people who are a lot worse than you over and over again? What good advice have you gotten from this thread that you couldn'tve thought of by yourself? My constructive criticism for you is to stop being an attention whore + retard.
Oh I see then, Infinity after watching the replays I think it looks like your macro did improve a little but you're still not producing enough units. go build units before you get into a battle so you keep producing units while fighting, and you should have been more aggressive that game and also you could have expanded like iloveoov and win? Happy? now stop ruining teamliquid
You're just downright rude. If you don't want to actually help me, don't reply. FYI, I can play bnet, I just don't have enough time, plus the connection's pretty unstable and I end up wasting lots of time just trying to get into a game. I wish to get better at macro, expanding, etc. by playing the comp, which you think is a retarded idea. And some other people think is a good idea for newbies. I did get some good advice like try to write it on a sticky note, focus on these things one at a time. And although I already knew some of these advices, like watch pro replays, at least these people tried to HELP me, not to curse at me.
edit:
{
I noticed that you called me an "attention whore + retard". I'm not asking for attention, I'm asking for help. If you can't get through your thick skull, just stop replying. And I seriously doubt you're smarter than me. You have no right to call me a retard when I'm simply asking for help.
}
In Korea, people would call you 초딩. (came up with a more fitting word: 호로자식)
Thanks to all the people who genuinely care about helping out new people.
edit: people who contributed to this thread positively would be
skyglow1
PaeZ
thedeadhaji
azndsh
penitent exile
PsycHOTemplar
Silver
_PulSe_
StarcraftNewb
teh leet newb
lawl mart
Read their replies and try to figure out their tone of voice and the way they give advice. Why can't you be more like them?
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I see i'm sorry then, so you wish to get better by playing the computer, and some people think its a good idea while some people including me think its a bad idea. Naturally you would listen to the people who think its a good idea. Either way my point is, your situation doesn't warrant itself a brand new thread in the brood war section, in other words, you're not worth helping. And yes I'm all for the writing "MACRO" on a sticky note idea, it's a classic method that has been practiced by KTF Korean starcraft team for years, however recently korea placed an embargo on the import of all "post-it" notes so therefore the players of KTF have not been able to have their secret reminder during their proleague games, hence their poor record. But I'm sorry for straying, cuz this thread is about you, but for you unfortunately I have nothing more to say other than that, I'm chinese american too? OOO DOESN'T THAT MAKE YOU LOOK STUPID
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On November 09 2006 21:33 infinity21 wrote:
Read their replies and try to figure out their tone of voice and the way they give advice. Why can't you be more like them?
ha, ha, fuck you retard
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Why are you replying? You definitely read other people's posts and you're definitely not sorry. You think I'm not worth helping? Who are you to judge that? A lot of people have come out gave many tips and advices that helped them get through the newbie stage and lawl mart even offered help in real life (i.e. bnet). Obviously, they think I'm worth helping. I'm a fellow SC player who simply started much later than others. I created this thread in hopes that people will help me out, and many people did. Except a retard like you decided to categorize this thread as useless/shit. I don't see how your post makes me look stupid. You know about who started the sticky notes, that's great. I don't see your point.
You're ruining team liquid, not me. Now stop making replies in this thread.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On November 09 2006 21:45 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2006 21:33 infinity21 wrote:
Read their replies and try to figure out their tone of voice and the way they give advice. Why can't you be more like them? ha, ha, fuck you retard
a witty reply -__-;
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Your situation isn't too bright then in terms of geting better at bw. If bnet is really a problem then either you find an alternative to play someone decent, or you are simply not going to be able to get anywhere in terms of skill. Hamachi might work for you (search it up, its easy to run) so that you can find someone to train you and teach you (and of course theyll be better than you so you have the chance to play someone better than you). What sorta skill do you look to get to? I don't think you could get very far at all without playing someone better than you.
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121212121212
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rally rally rally
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On November 09 2006 21:53 skyglow1 wrote:
Your situation isn't too bright then in terms of geting better at bw. If bnet is really a problem then either you find an alternative to play someone decent, or you are simply not going to be able to get anywhere in terms of skill. Hamachi might work for you (search it up, its easy to run) so that you can find someone to train you and teach you (and of course theyll be better than you so you have the chance to play someone better than you). What sorta skill do you look to get to? I don't think you could get very far at all without playing someone better than you.
Thanks for the insight, skyglow1. I'll try out Hamachi.. maybe I'll be able to connect to more games. I'd be honoured if a member from team liquid decided to help me out, except zulu. If anyone would like to take some time out of their busy lives to help a newbie, it would be very much appreciated. I just want to be good enough so I can hold my own against other BNet players. Of course, the better I am, the happier I get, but that's my current goal now.
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well your position is dificult since little time means little advance... and the part where you cant play bnet is worse. If you are looking for some advice to beat your friends... mmm really go to the recommended section and try to use some of these strategies playing with them. Otherwise if you want to get better overall then forget about playing with your friends find a way to connect battlenet at least two hours a day, make an organized way to train and play better ppl. Basically define your main interest about starcraft before asking help and get used to retards, starcraft has millions so dont get frustrated...
edit: skyglow is right, sad he wroted faster
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On November 09 2006 22:06 malongo wrote:
well your position is dificult since little time means little advance... and the part where you cant play bnet is worse. If you are looking for some advice to beat your friends... mmm really go to the recommended section and try to use some of these strategies playing with them. Otherwise if you want to get better overall then forget about playing with your friends find a way to connect battlenet at least two hours a day, make an organized way to train and play better ppl. Basically define your main interest about starcraft before asking help and get used to retards, starcraft has millions so dont get frustrated... :D
Ok, thanks ^^;
It's hard to get used to retards... Usually I just ignore them, but kinda hard to ignore someone calling my thread useless & calling me an attention whore + retard
I'll try to squeeze in as many hours as I can, but since I'm in grade 12 now, I doubt I could put in more than 10 hrs per week not including my lunch periods, where I just play with my friends.
edit: regarding Hamachi, it is called "LogMeIn Hamachi"? Just making sure.
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Its this: http://www.hamachi.cc/
Might not work well if your connection is crap or if the person you're connecting with is far away from you.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Hmm ok thanks. I have a good enough connection, just BNet in general has been pretty gay recently, especially on Diablo 2 X. I just logged on to prevent my characters from being deleted but it wouldn't let me connect to bnet after my 3rd character.. -__-;
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I'll train you - msn me or msg me on bnet
qG.Dawn all servers
[MSN is better choice]
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One of the wierd things about sc is the whole idea about what people are doing if they arent building units. i mean you watch a replay and you look around and not much is going on, no units are really building and nothing is happening. why does this happen? i mean what could possibly be more important than building units? whenever im in a game i try to think about what really matters most and do it. it always nice to look back at my natural and see 6 fresh lurks and a round of lings runnin' down the ramp ^^. just think about what you have to do logically and dont click too much on things you dont need to click on. about a month ago i would always overclik and it slowed me down+fucked me up. do everything deliberately and try not to missclick. i think one of your problems is not "forgetting" its being too slow. for example if you are microing your mutas you have to learn when to send em in a straight path so they dont get attacked while you quickly go back and macro for a second. its these kind of timing/clicking skills that you learn from playing many games.
i just came out of "semi-noobishness" so you can pm me and i can give you some tips on what to think about during a game.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Thanks XDawn. It's so nice to see people who are willing to help. ^^;
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You seem nice enough.... if you want il game with ya too =). l[w]l-PulSe on east. P.S. that spelled like L[w]L. =)
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PURPOSE.
That's what'll make you better.
If you know what you want to do and when to do it, the only thing limiting you is your apm.
How do you learn what you want to do?
Watch reps, read strategy guides, develop your own strategies, plan your game!
REMEMBER: IF YOU FAIL TO PLAN, YOU PLAN TO FAIL!!!
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On November 09 2006 22:52 [jOyO] wrote:
One of the wierd things about sc is the whole idea about what people are doing if they arent building units. i mean you watch a replay and you look around and not much is going on, no units are really building and nothing is happening. why does this happen? i mean what could possibly be more important than building units? whenever im in a game i try to think about what really matters most and do it. it always nice to look back at my natural and see 6 fresh lurks and a round of lings runnin' down the ramp ^^. just think about what you have to do logically and dont click too much on things you dont need to click on. about a month ago i would always overclik and it slowed me down+fucked me up. do everything deliberately and try not to missclick. i think one of your problems is not "forgetting" its being too slow. for example if you are microing your mutas you have to learn when to send em in a straight path so they dont get attacked while you quickly go back and macro for a second. its these kind of timing/clicking skills that you learn from playing many games.
i just came out of "semi-noobishness" so you can pm me and i can give you some tips on what to think about during a game.
Wow. I never thought of it like that. Thanks for the insight. I've been trying not to over-click too much, but it's a bad habit. Still, very nice tips. Thanks ^^;
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
thanks. MaZza[KIS] Straight to the point. ^^;
edit: omg I wish all the comments made by zulu were deleted... that would make this thread amazing. So many people offering to help... T__T
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United States20661 Posts
I'll be willing to take you up on West or Hamachi, PM me and I'll give you my AIM
Mostly, just playing better players will make you better. I remember when I first went on op tl-west - I felt I was a pretty bad player, but I thought I could at least win a game or two. Got trashed pretty terribly, 0:3 that day. I went for something like seven games before winning.
It was nice, though. After every loss, I'd ask opponent/obs what went wrong, watch rep, and I'd improve a little. So, now, while I'm still not a great player, I'm passable enough to consider myself average.
So that method seemed to work best for me: game with someone better, ask what they did well, what I did wrong, what I should improve, watch replay, and then re if possible ^^V
Also, playing on standard maps [Luna T-T] may be boring, but it's easiest way to improve. Then can move to non-standard maps like Blitz, SinBaekduDaegan, Arkanoid, etc.
It's good that you're zerg, my understanding of zerg is probably a bit better than the other two races, so I can help you more ^^
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Thanks penitent exile!! Hopefully I can meet you on BNet this weekend ^^;
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On November 09 2006 19:31 infinity21 wrote:
Hi. I honestly don't have a replay where I lose...
And you dare ask for help?
On November 09 2006 20:27 infinity21 wrote:
edit: My friends think I'm "amazing" just because I can beat them every time. I'd also like to help them get better so we can have more enjoyable games.
Haha, talk about blind leading blind.
Let me get this straight:
- You want to get better, but you play against people who apparently have no idea how to play Starcraft
- You do not have ONE replay where you lose, so you have never played anybody above your level
- You can only play "during lunch period in school", so you have no hope for improvement
- You flame when we tell you what you don't want to hear, and act arrogantly when you should be lurking more, newbie
Do you have any fucking idea how stupid you sound? Zulu_nation is one of the best players posting in this thread, but apparently instead of having a modicum of humility you call the people who attack you "retards". Good job.
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First of all, are you really sure becoming pro at sc is something desirable for you? A lot of people here are addicted to the game, and that's not something you want to be.
When trying to improve I think you need to differ between theory and execution. As a lot of people have already told you in this thread, execution can only really be improved by playing a lot. There are certain tricks (some mentioned in this thread), but the key is just playing, playing, playing.
Theory on the other hand isn't just attainable through mass practice (although it helps of course), and here is where good and bad practice differ. A lot of people are stuck on a semi-bad level because of this.
- The most important thing to do is to watch your own replays. It helps a LOT to spot flaws in your play.
- Watch progamer replays. Watching them from the point of view of only one player is a nice alternative to watching it normally, to see the player's scouting patterns for example. Try to roughly memorize their build orders (and more importantly, understand their purpose), and other little things like overlord placement (you're zerg right?).
- Generalize. Try to come up with rules for whole matchups or even for all of sc, which you can go by in games. This is fundamental for your understanding of the game. (I just tried to write up an example for you (for tvp), but my English isn't good enough for that unfortunately. :/)
- Don't put _too_ much time into these things. Playing games is still the main thing you should be doing, you don't want to become like me, I did nothing but watch replays and analyze. Now I might know some theory, but I can't play for shit. : (
Whatever you do, if you just keep playing with your friends, you'll never reach a good level. Generally it's best to play people equal or a little better than you. If you get to play people better than you, ask them for advice after a game, they'll be able to help a lot with your play.
If you want theoretical advice, I can obb some games if you want, pm me if you want my msn.
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On November 09 2006 23:00 infinity21 wrote:
thanks. MaZza[KIS] Straight to the point. ^^;
edit: omg I wish all the comments made by zulu were deleted... that would make this thread amazing. So many people offering to help... T__T
youre a fucking idiot. there your thread sucks more now.
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dude play lots of games, its the simple answer, if your into the game make it your lief, then ur human body/brain will adapt to everything that this game is. GL HF GOGO!
go pro even if ur not too old to start turning into a full fledge nerd.
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google or tl search for strategical/mental aspects [when to expand, when to attack, when to turtle, when to power drones, etc.]
mass games for improving physical aspects such as speed & timing [apm/reaction time/hotkeying/micro/macro]
if you want to get better just use some common sense and build up your physical aspects (dunno if thats the right word lol) first get mouse speed up, get some basic build orders down, develop habits of switching between micro and macro, etc.
by the time you get all that down you should have developed some sense of the game, and even at that level you can just learn more by massing games and reading guides/threads here
IMO, there shouldn't be a reason for you to create a new thread just asking "how to get better" -_-;
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chineses are crazy, they only think about training = D
infinity21, when you play your chobos friends, don't try to kill them with your micro but with your macro. If really you have no macro, just don't micro and macro the best you can (so you learn how to hotkey and get used). Then you will learn how to multitask micro / macro.
another point is when you play, play at least 5-8 games in a row, and watch all the replays of yours loses (x1 speed)
gl
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On November 09 2006 23:00 infinity21 wrote:
thanks. MaZza[KIS] Straight to the point. ^^;
edit: omg I wish all the comments made by zulu were deleted... that would make this thread amazing. So many people offering to help... T__T
"infinity21 Canada. November 09 2006 19:31. "
"infinity21 Canada. November 09 2006 23:32. "
I would recommend you to play more instead of replay every 20 minutes, specialy not if your reply like this, or you would not have a chance anymore to ask anyone for anything
(in 99,9% zulu was right even with sometimes "rude" answers)
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It's not "rude" in quotations when someone calls your posts shit etc, it's rude without quotations.
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Vatican City State1176 Posts
practise, practise, practise....most important thing: have fun^^
watching vods does help a lot...I never thought so until Ifigured it out myself (me=stupid kid)
I didn't watch the replays, but generally said it's more important to macro than to micro...I mean troops without any micro won't help you alot
micro normally won't win you a game (at newb level), normally it's macro
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worker split at beginning. workers will begin mining immediately without wasting time.
-highlight all workers and right click on mineral, then as they are goign there select each one and right click on other minerals.
keep building workers
-hotkey nex/cc/hatch 1 or 0 (i use 1) and keep an eye on the building bar, when it gets close to done que in another worker so you dont lose time inbetween workers.
macro
-i use numbers 5 6 7 8 for my buildings to build so it is much faster to press the numbers and then the hotkey for the unit, rather than clicking the building and then clicking the unit icon.
managing ur army
- i hotkey army to 1 2 3 4 (at this point you can move main building hotkey to 0 or other) because they are closer to the \"a\" key. use right click to run and \"a\" left click ground near enemy to do an aggresive move.
watch your minerals
-in game your minerals should ideally be under 500, if it exceeds this number then use it up on buildings or units or expanding. minerals left by itself will not turn into units magically >_o
watch your replays
-when you lose a game, go back and watch the game. you can learn alot, such as maybe you spent too much time and money on static defence while ur opponent was expanding, maybe you didnt attack when he was weak and let him build up forces, maybe you should be more defensive until your FE economy kicks in. things like this can be picked up. as long as you understand why you lost, you didnt lose anything. you only found a thousand ways NOT to play the game >_o
other than that I dont really know haha you just need to get out there and play =D
can pm me for more detailed help, sorry i didnt watch ur replays =P
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find one matchup from the 12 and stick to it. you said you liked zerg, so ZvP imho is the simplest matchup for that. if you really want to start easy, I suggest being protoss and practicing only PvZ which is great for noobs. tell your friend to stick the one race too. playing random vs random basically means you need to get good at 12 different gaming styles (ZvZ, ZvP, ZvT, ZvRandom, etc x3). when you decide to focus on just 1 matchup (ex: ZvP), you automatically increase your learning efficiency by 12x. Then after you get better, you can apply some of the general concepts to other matchups.
go to http://azeroth.ru for videos of professional gamers playing. Find ones that are doing the matchup you are working on. get a general idea of how quickly the game needs to run. look at the gamers while they are playing and see how fast their hands move.
find replays of professional gamers that do the matchup you want. If you are Zerg, try some of ipxzerg (also known as savior). if you are Terran, try boxer. if you are protoss, try Reach. There's also tons of replays in the replays section on tl.net. just find a matchup that is the one you are doing. make sure the game version is right or else the replay stops working in the middle. Try to copy some of their build orders and practice vs ur friends. if you are doing the same matchup, and pretty much the same game over and over and over again, you will get better at that specific thing very quickly. within 30 games of the same fucking thing over and over again, you'll have that one build order down pretty pat. (build order refers to the order that you make your buildings) (good replays are hard to find. for some of the people who are helping you through pm, ask them if they can send you a replay pack they have for your matchup, and see if htey can help you to get the sc version to match the replay version)
go to http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=25292 to read recommended threads that answer basically everything you are asking now. that is why people are flaming you. I can't say i agree with the flaming because that's just not how my personality is, they could put it nicer, but then again, what do you expect from a bunch of middle/high schoolers who play a competitive game as their favorite activity which fosters competition and in some cases, frustration. I come to this forum as much to socialize as to talk about sc ^__^.
don't give up ^_^. i agree that "practice makes perfect" is not right because more correct is "perfect practice makes perfect", but nonetheless, if u don't practice enough, u wont improve fast enough, but hoepfully, this post help you somewhat with the time that you do have. Just keep on being nice and people will always help you after the flamers get bored and find another thread to flame. it's sad that there's people who think their seniority allows them to disregard common etiquette, but at least these people are lurking on starcraft forum and not in the business world. it could be a lot worse. =} . it's been a long time since some of the players on this forum were noobs, some of the things that are hard for beginners they take for granted. i feel bad for their children.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Thank you everyone for your help. Maybe I should have just searched for guides, but I thought creating a thread would have yielded more responses (that I need).
I should have been really straight with my point: efficient methods of training. But the message didn't go through quite well.
Again, thanks for all your help. ^^;
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On November 10 2006 13:16 infinity21 wrote:
Thank you everyone for your help. Maybe I should have just searched for guides, but I thought creating a thread would have yielded more responses (that I need).
I should have been really straight with my point: efficient methods of training. But the message didn't go through quite well.
Again, thanks for all your help. ^^;
No shit, you fucking genius. Maybe you should work on your attitude?
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On November 10 2006 14:21 MarcX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2006 13:16 infinity21 wrote:
Thank you everyone for your help. Maybe I should have just searched for guides, but I thought creating a thread would have yielded more responses (that I need).
I should have been really straight with my point: efficient methods of training. But the message didn't go through quite well.
Again, thanks for all your help. ^^; No shit, you fucking genius. Maybe you should work on your attitude?
I think you're the one who needs to work your attitude. -__-;
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Am I the one pleading for help?
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
No, I'm not pleading for help, I'm asking for help. There's a difference. And I thanked everyone who tried to help me. Plus, if you have nothing positive to say, please don't post. What do you achieve by flaming?
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On November 09 2006 23:50 exalted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2006 19:31 infinity21 wrote:
Hi. I honestly don't have a replay where I lose... And you dare ask for help? Show nested quote +On November 09 2006 20:27 infinity21 wrote:
edit: My friends think I'm "amazing" just because I can beat them every time. I'd also like to help them get better so we can have more enjoyable games. Haha, talk about blind leading blind. Let me get this straight: - You want to get better, but you play against people who apparently have no idea how to play Starcraft - You do not have ONE replay where you lose, so you have never played anybody above your level - You can only play "during lunch period in school", so you have no hope for improvement - You flame when we tell you what you don't want to hear, and act arrogantly when you should be lurking more, newbie Do you have any fucking idea how stupid you sound? Zulu_nation is one of the best players posting in this thread, but apparently instead of having a modicum of humility you call the people who attack you "retards". Good job.
noobs don't understand what they say in a sc forum. your acting like he knows the sc scene. we have all been here, him just a little bit more than others --;. don't help him if you don't want to and how does anything in your post help him in any way?
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On November 10 2006 14:43 [jOyO] wrote:
noobs don't understand what they say in a sc forum. your acting like he knows the sc scene. we have all been here, him just a little bit more than others --;. don't help him if you don't want to and how does anything in your post help him in any way?
It's pointing out exactly what he needs to change to get better. The only problem is that he refuses to listen, because he has his head too far up his own ass. People haven't been the most polite, so perhaps his behavior is understandable, but his attitude towards SC and the people on this forum sends out a clear message: "I don't deserve your respect or help". The behavior of people replying is perfectly understandable as well. Except perhaps for those that actually help him.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
For the record, the first thing zulu said in his reply is that my thread is shitty. Do you think I would have any respect for someone who does that? The only person I called a retard was zulu. He kept flaming me even though I sent him a PM, apologizing for the insult that was uncalled for, tried to explain my situation more clearly, but he seems to think that asking for help in BW in general is a stupid idea and won't just leave me alone. -__-;
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On November 10 2006 14:56 MarcX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2006 14:43 [jOyO] wrote:
noobs don't understand what they say in a sc forum. your acting like he knows the sc scene. we have all been here, him just a little bit more than others --;. don't help him if you don't want to and how does anything in your post help him in any way? It's pointing out exactly what he needs to change to get better. The only problem is that he refuses to listen, because he has his head too far up his own ass. People haven't been the most polite, so perhaps his behavior is understandable, but his attitude towards SC and the people on this forum sends out a clear message: "I don't deserve your respect or help". The behavior of people replying is perfectly understandable as well. Except perhaps for those that actually help him.
I'm not refusing to listen. I've tried to use a lot of the tips that members of team liquid gave me during games. How does my attitude say: "I don't deserve your respect or help"? I came to team liquid to get better at SC even in conditions that are not that great for improving. Of course, I didn't really know this until people told me, but don't I deserve some credit for wanting to get better? All of my friends are content just sitting at where they are and not improving. I, on the other hand, want to get better. So I asked for advice, people gave them, and I thanked them.
I don't think I did anything that says "I don't deserve your respect or help". If you can point out a specific quote of me saying something along those lines, please post it. And also, people wanting to help newbies is not understandable? Everyone was a newbie once.
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The change is for the best.
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ok, i reread the thread and watched the replay. Infinity this is what I was angry about besides the chinese comment, you made a thread asking for "general advice" on how to improve besides playing a lot of games, you don't specify your skill level, don't specify what race you're playing, who you can play with, what you're having problems with, "My micro is alright (for a newbie), but my macro is all over the place, mostly non-existent. I always forget to expand too", you don't post a replay. This would qualify as "A Shitty Thread" because you don't specify what you need help with and you never searched.
Then you post a replay, I watch it, and it's your friend sending 7 zealots at you while you fight it off and kill all his probes later. The replay is bad because, you're a lot better than your friend and it was an extremely one sided and short game. So naturally after that my response would be, play people better than you, then you tell me you can't play battle.net. My reaction was WHY ARE YOU POSTING HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. By then I had already lost all my patience. Because you should've realized that you can never get better if you only play people 10x worse than you + the computer, no matter how many games you play or what kind of advice you receive. Naturally you ignore everything I say because I cursed at you, and that's understandable, and I apologize for losing my patience so early but as you can see, I usually don't have a lot.
Now as my last word, I hope you understand that, if you don't play other people, you're never going to improve, I was just starting out like you not too long ago, everything I say is from experience. So please, LISTEN. All the advice you get hear is useless without worthy opponents. And you're not really a beginner per se, most of the advice here i'm sure you already know, like how to macro, how to hotkey etc, you do hotkey your fact and units from your replay. And also, please listen, I maybe rude but that doesn't make what I say false. You can't just choose to believe in what sounds the best to you. good luck
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Thank you for putting your words that way. Being a newbie at SC and at TL, I didn't realize that not specifying EXACTLY what I need help on would get me flamed like that. I thought that asking for tips on how to remember things better was specific enough.
And yes, I realized that my friend sucks so much, but since people asked for replays, and I only play against my friends, I had no choice to put up those replays, did I? That night, I did manage to play against one of tl's players, and got lots of helpful advice, like pulling my M&M forces back as soon as I see Spire, focusing on macro more, not letting my mineral count go over 500, etc.
I understood everything you said, I just didn't like how you started off your reply. As a fellow human being, I'd just like to add that if you're rude to someone, chances are, they won't listen to you.
But point taken. I'll try to take in all the things you said to help me.
edit: is it needless to mention that I got raped in last night's game?
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its totally ok for your mineral to go over 500, dont listen to skyglow
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On November 10 2006 15:31 zulu_nation8 wrote:
its totally ok for your mineral to go over 500, dont listen to skyglow
XD
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
lol I dunno who to listen to. >__<;
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
ah, bnet works, but I can't join that many games and nobody can get into my room because my "latency is too high". I don't really like playing strangers on bnet because 1. they kick my ass so fast I dunno what I did wrong 2. 80% of the time, something happens and they leave the game or I get disconnected.
I did try out Hamachi and it seemed to work without any problems though ^^;
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dont play strangers, start on east or west and find friends to play with. It's ok to get raped even when you don't know whats wrong, just by losing you'll be better next game
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Hm ok. Should just ask the people on op tl-west?
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On November 10 2006 15:56 infinity21 wrote:
ah, bnet works, but I can't join that many games and nobody can get into my room because my "latency is too high". I don't really like playing strangers on bnet because 1. they kick my ass so fast I dunno what I did wrong 2. 80% of the time, something happens and they leave the game or I get disconnected.
I did try out Hamachi and it seemed to work without any problems though ^^;
Well just join korean public games on west. If you don't know what you did wrong, thats where advice from other people comes in.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
I'm getting lots of help from friendly tl members :D so thanks tl ^^;
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If you don't want to/can't play bnet (which as stated above is by far the best alternative if you want to improve) and your friends suck too much, challenge them to a 1on2. At least that should push your macro and multitasking a bit. And it may give you some excellent bragging posibilities...
And I would have offered games if we were in more or less the same time zone...
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Ahh that's a good idea, Cascade. Thanks ^^;
It's not often that we have 3 laptops during lunch though.. Usually 2. Maybe I should give them a 30 second head start.. lol
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Good luck infinity21 in getting better - you remind me a lot of skyglow1, and he ended up being an extremely contributing member who taught the entire community a few things (putting a unit on the "hexagon" on the ramp, magic squares). Anyway, I linked to my TvP guide earlier in this thread, try to find it, I think it'll be useful for you to understand some of the underlying economic concepts in the game.
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EPT
