DisclaimerI understand that there is a lot of frustration which revolves around me and I accept full responsibility for any uncompleted works and bad manner which I may have presented in the past. I do not expect that this be taken extraordinarily seriously, because evidently, I deserve some flak for certain actions which were taken.
This post is being made primarily because I discussed with some people with whom I am in contact within the Brood War community and we came to an understanding that it would probably be best if I introduced my intent on doing some small projects here and there before actually posting the project itself. This is for several reasons, so that more of the issues are resolved here as opposed to littering a tournament thread.
I don't expect anyone to fully appreciate the person, all I ask is that you focus on the product, I will put on some Brood War for you guys and I hope that is simply enough and we can otherwise go on with minimal association between that product and myself.
This is a presentation post to let you guys know that I will be active on a part time bases in certain projects with players and team leaders to bring you more Brood War. I will not be running anything big and I will not be operating in the realm of aesthetics (simply due to time restrictions). The focus of the time I spend on Brood War will be on providing tournaments and Brood War streams for those tournaments.
I have obtained sponsorship for a mini-series of three events and will be posting a thread about it after the thread has passed through an auditing process. This should be early in the week. For credibility reasons, this mini-series had to be invite only, I will try to do something with more players in the future, but in this scenario, that doesn't seem possible. Understand the restrictions on this as I can't ask people to go for an open sign up, quite simply, the event would not happen or would be restricted to a similar player pool anyway.
I hope that you guys don't all want to kill me, I know some of you do, but I will do everything within my power to not step on your toes.
Penny for your thoughts?
P.S. I would like to thank Teamliquid for allowing me to post this, in consideration for them, I will keep my posting to a minimal and strictly on event related stuff until further time where my reputation is improved.
Final Note: I still don't have a caster for the games which are accounted for in the mini-series event, if anyone wants to help out, please send me a private message on TL. We will work on your schedule for casting, no time has been set as of yet.
You got a lot of hate in the past for way over promising, but nobody can deny that if it weren't for you the scene would be way more inactive if it weren't for you.
So if you manage to actually run something with realistic expectations...
Sayle was probably the biggest contributor to keep bw going after sc2 went live, alot of those tournaments were ran buy you. And you should be proud of that.
So I heard that MTG cards fetch a good price, I don't suppose you have the Power Nine and plan on elaborating on your scheme of selling them to fund a massive LAN?
If you actually host or organize tournaments, give prize money, or contribute in any substantial way, then that speaks for itself. So go for it. All of us will appreciate it.
On February 03 2014 14:38 thezanursic wrote: You got a lot of hate in the past for way over promising, but nobody can deny that if it weren't for you the scene would be way more inactive if it weren't for you.
So if you manage to actually run something with realistic expectations...
Sorry but that's not correct. Sayle was already casting and this was the time when people were more active. There had already been a Gambit Cup season 1 which was ran much more smoothly than when Eywa came along. Eywa then became exceedingly arrogant for no reason (since he didn't run a particularly good league and he had many excuses/reasons for under performing instead of just not promising stuff he couldn't live up to). Ultimately people who knew his true nature didn't even waste time when he announced "the biggest foreign tour of all time" which crashed and burned.
Very curious who would accept an "invite-only" tour unless the money was upfront to a third party, not handled by Eywa or there was some actual credibility to this claim, once again by another party.
On February 03 2014 14:38 thezanursic wrote: You got a lot of hate in the past for way over promising, but nobody can deny that if it weren't for you the scene would be way more inactive if it weren't for you.
So if you manage to actually run something with realistic expectations...
Very curious who would accept an "invite-only" tour unless the money was upfront to a third party, not handled by Eywa or there was some actual credibility to this claim, once again by another party.
He offered TL to hold the prize pool to increase the legitimacy of the tournament.
Also, we desperately need more foreign BW events and yet most people are still being bitter and negative all the time. I don't get it.
On February 03 2014 14:38 thezanursic wrote: You got a lot of hate in the past for way over promising, but nobody can deny that if it weren't for you the scene would be way more inactive if it weren't for you.
So if you manage to actually run something with realistic expectations...
Sorry but that's not correct. Sayle was already casting and this was the time when people were more active. There had already been a Gambit Cup season 1 which was ran much more smoothly than when Eywa came along. Eywa then became exceedingly arrogant for no reason (since he didn't run a particularly good league and he had many excuses/reasons for under performing instead of just not promising stuff he couldn't live up to). Ultimately people who knew his true nature didn't even waste time when he announced "the biggest foreign tour of all time" which crashed and burned.
Very curious who would accept an "invite-only" tour unless the money was upfront to a third party, not handled by Eywa or there was some actual credibility to this claim, once again by another party.
On February 03 2014 14:38 thezanursic wrote: You got a lot of hate in the past for way over promising, but nobody can deny that if it weren't for you the scene would be way more inactive if it weren't for you.
So if you manage to actually run something with realistic expectations...
Very curious who would accept an "invite-only" tour unless the money was upfront to a third party, not handled by Eywa or there was some actual credibility to this claim, once again by another party.
He offered TL to hold the prize pool to increase the legitimacy of the tournament.
Also, we desperately need more foreign BW events and yet most people are still being bitter and negative all the time. I don't get it.
It's not really all the time, neither do I think this is an "obviously well intioned thread" or however you phrased it. This smells like repeating mistakes over and over again. Judging from history this has little to nothing to do with supporting the existing scene, more like making himself a name by "organizing" a tournament or a smaller series. He comes in, promises, hands over money, but apparently has not really a plan yet besides invites (of whom I might ask, draw already said he wouldn't trust him, I'm sure there's plenty more who won't).
If he would've really changed, there'd be a few persons he could just hire and hand over the money; SBWI, Yoda/Defiler asked for promotion, they're neutral and I'm sure they'd be happy; there'd be the option to hire somebody else, any of the old reps.ru guys might help, the netwars scene comes to mind, even increasing the upcoming TSL prize pool, yet here we are, he has to run it himself. He still considers money as thing you can buy yourself into the community. Why is money this important? Money never got us far, this isn't what inspires people. Other portals started out without any money and still exist or at least existed for more than ten years.
He could simply start as ordinary user, swallow the mean posts (if there any you wouldn't shoot at directly, because he's apparently important cause promised $$$$) and invest his own time. It's not like doesn't have a giant moderation history he has to work against. Accepting him only because he promises things, doesn't convince people. If you're really going to defend him, better be prepared for the answers. I respect you for the decision to back him up and give him a chance, but please do that for everyone around here. I haven't seen moderation defending the likes of Pucca (who argueably did not offend anybody on this page or elsewhere the ways the OP did), I haven't seen you shutting down the apparently well-meant commentary of other people throwing phrases like "piss poor judgement" at the entire SBWI - no, closing a thread doesn't equal handing out warnings. It really doesn't. Maybe these skewed (not saying biased) moderation hints are the reason for "the negativity". Tolerating him not a second or third, but a fourth or fifth time makes this dangerous.
On February 04 2014 07:07 dRaW wrote: Very curious who would accept an "invite-only" tour unless the money was upfront to a third party, not handled by Eywa or there was some actual credibility to this claim, once again by another party.
I'm not sure I understand. The tournament is, afaik, online; in other words there are no expenses involved. What reason would there to be not to participate? Worst possible case is there was no prize pool and you got to play some decent series against good players much like any other day on icc/fish.
Eh, I would say give Eywa the benefit of the doubt and see how the first "event" goes. Because in this case, why not? He's circulating money into the scene, which is always motivation enough for players to play, and as long as he doesn't want to start up some rebellion against Teamliquid or something, I'd say let him get all the recognition he longs for, if he's successful.
Nobody says he should be banned. However, giving him an additional moderation bonus because he has $$$ should not happen. That happened already over and over again. Quality > Quantity.
On February 04 2014 09:21 GeckoXp wrote: Nobody says he should be banned. However, giving him an additional moderation bonus because he has $$$ should not happen. That happened already over and over again. Quality > Quantity.
What moderation bonus? Seriously, what the hell are you talking about. Your whole previous post reeks of some non-important propaganda and has very little to do with things OP is saying.
All you're doing here is posting your biased unconstructive opinion and derailing the thread, which contributes nothing.
Maybe someone can explain to me why Eywa seems to have some haters. I wasn't as involved in the scene back then although I do recall a blog from Nina challenging him and such way back. From what I understand, he made promises and couldn't keep them. That's all I'm getting from the posts above at least.
On February 04 2014 09:21 GeckoXp wrote: Nobody says he should be banned. However, giving him an additional moderation bonus because he has $$$ should not happen. That happened already over and over again. Quality > Quantity.
What moderation bonus? Seriously, what the hell are you talking about. Your whole previous post reeks of some non-important propaganda and has very little to do with things OP is saying.
All you're doing here is posting your biased unconstructive opinion and derailing the thread, which contributes nothing.
So, basically, the guys promises shit all day long, doesn't live up to it. He has a monstrous list of flaming against other organizations, whenever he felt like it and got little to no bans. He proceeds and announces the biggest LAN people would ever see, which apparently never happened, because it was a hoax to begin with. Last notion he left was how we could all go screw ourselves. Then he started to hand out money for LRM to buy Sziky for a team league, a project he was incapable of running. This is the pattern, he was incapable of smoothly organizing anything. He comes back, all is well? Suddenly it's forbidden to make a slight remark about all that, that alone is worth a warning. This list isn't an opinion, these are facts. Look it up if you want, the posts are all here.
Now, consider Pucca's case, I'm still really angry about it when I come to think about it. You know what the guy invested (non monetarely) into this scene well after he was exposed so hard on this site. I don't know how many people indirectly had a benefit off his work and still ridicule him over nothing. I know you know, because I know in which Skype groups you were. Still, it's etiquette to summon his name around here, you get away with it, because he apparently doesn't randomly throw money around. I really don't get that.
This isn't only about the moderation, it's about the naive way people are having when they welcome back their fallen "heroes". That's where my "negativity" and "derailing" comes from. People should know who they're asked to trust again. It's not even the first time he publicly apologizes and then starts to fall back into his old behaviour. Hell, HE HIMSELF SAID IN THE OP THAT THIS ISN'T GOING TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.
This reminds me so much at the avalanche of people welcoming back the most notorious hackers, just to get screwed again.
On February 04 2014 09:45 BigFan wrote: Maybe someone can explain to me why Eywa seems to have some haters. I wasn't as involved in the scene back then although I do recall a blog from Nina challenging him and such way back. From what I understand, he made promises and couldn't keep them. That's all I'm getting from the posts above at least.
As I said in the OP, I have no intention of hiding or pretending I didn't do what happened before. The division of haters was created before most of the things which I knock myself for. Not that I can say I didn't play a part in that, the division of haters is as much a feat of mine as it is of theirs, I did not come back to make war with them. For a very brief and summarized history:
First event was a king of the hill which probably no one remembers hosted on iCCup with the help of the iCCup staff
I offered my services to LRM)Game in ISL1 for write ups and interviews at the semi-final level. - This is the point where Nina, Gecko and I became opposed... Just getting more severe over the ages because there was ultimatum offered from both sides, and I chose one over the other. There was unnecessary bm on both sides, worsening over the years.
I was interested in organizing and so, I partnered with Game to benefit from his skill set making the justin.tv king of the hill
Following the good reception of that, I created twitch.tv king of the hill
After that, joe kim was going to make a clan league, but didn't think it had enough steam to take off, so he abandoned the project. This was a project that I took on, beginning the first season of Gambit's Cup... 2 Other seasons would follow, increasing in prize pool, however, in terms of season, the order of quality was probably 3, 1, 2... The second season was a disaster due to length, there is no denying that. in terms of playoffs, the best season was 2, 3, 1 in my opinion however... which is unfortunate that I believe the best potential was lost.
In between Gambit's Cup 2 and 3 I also played a major organization role in Altitude Nation Wars.
Despite popular belief, I have done the majority of my work on my own, the development in skill of organization would be credited majorly to game, which in of itself is a huge time saver. Unfortunately, due to this association, I would also gain a lot of enemies because generally, teams thought that I favored LRM in clan events, which to be fair... I wanted them to win, which made me have to moderate them extra hard in most cases. This ended up creating a lot of enemies, including some on LRM itself because they were generally the ones feeling the stress.
Past this point, things get really rocky...
I started up several leagues simultaneously, which didn't work because I had no time to run them (Ladder league) and (European LAN). I met a ton of controversy and eventually (becoming my biggest mistake to the BW community) essentially told them to screw themselves.
After this, I went ahead and started the Liquid Pasture Community League which is a community Dota 2 league which was taken over by leloup (much thanks to him) at season 2 due to my inability to remain active. This is the only league which I built the foundation for remaining it is currently in season 4.
On July 17th, 2013... I requested to Heyoka to terminate my account.
I am a strong believer in that for my case, 80% of success is just showing up applies... Coming into the scene, I was a nobody with no experience in running anything, I learned what I could and when things worked out, people cheer, when they don't, people boo. The problem I had before was that there was no detachment, as you can see by what I have above + the fact that I used to play Brood War, Brood War was a lifestyle for me... My temperament got progressively worse to the point where I convinced people to do stuff for the sole sake of mocking them for it, one more famous than any others involving iCCup.
On February 04 2014 09:47 GeckoXp wrote: Suddenly it's forbidden to make a slight remark about all that, that alone is worth a warning.
No, it's not suddenly forbidden to derail the threads with unconstructive comments; it has always been, especially the ones that try to be positive.
On February 04 2014 09:47 GeckoXp wrote: Now, consider Pucca's case, I'm still really angry about it when I come to think about it. You know what the guy invested (non monetarely) into this scene well after he was exposed so hard on this site. I don't know how many people indirectly had a benefit off his work and still ridicule him over nothing. I know you know, because I know in which Skype groups you were. Still, it's etiquette to summon his name around here, you get away with it, because he apparently doesn't randomly throw money around. I really don't get that.
What does this have to do with anything in the OP. Read my above comment.
On February 04 2014 09:47 GeckoXp wrote: This isn't only about the moderation, it's about the naive way people are having when they welcome back their fallen "heroes". That's where my "negativity" and "derailing" comes from. People should know who they're asked to trust again. It's not even the first time he publicly apologizes and then starts to fall back into his old behaviour. Hell, HE HIMSELF SAID IN THE OP THAT THIS ISN'T GOING TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.
I'm not here talking on the Eywa's behalf or defending him. I'm here talking as a moderator who is trying to keep this thread on-topic. If you have problem with moderation, take it to the Website Feedback forum as this is not a place for it.
On February 04 2014 09:47 GeckoXp wrote: This reminds me so much at the avalanche of people welcoming back the most notorious hackers, just to get screwed again.
Interesting. Tell us more about big injustices in the world that you've witnessed.
On February 04 2014 09:45 BigFan wrote: Maybe someone can explain to me why Eywa seems to have some haters. I wasn't as involved in the scene back then although I do recall a blog from Nina challenging him and such way back. From what I understand, he made promises and couldn't keep them. That's all I'm getting from the posts above at least.
As I said in the OP, I have no intention of hiding or pretending I didn't do what happened before. The division of haters was created before most of the things which I knock myself for. Not that I can say I didn't play a part in that, the division of haters is as much a feat of mine as it is of theirs, I did not come back to make war with them. For a very brief and summarized history:
First event was a king of the hill which probably no one remembers hosted on iCCup with the help of the iCCup staff
I offered my services to LRM)Game in ISL1 for write ups and interviews at the semi-final level. - This is the point where Nina, Gecko and I became opposed... Just getting more severe over the ages because there was ultimatum offered from both sides, and I chose one over the other. There was unnecessary bm on both sides, worsening over the years.
I was interested in organizing and so, I partnered with Game to benefit from his skill set making the justin.tv king of the hill
Following the good reception of that, I created twitch.tv king of the hill
After that, joe kim was going to make a clan league, but didn't think it had enough steam to take off, so he abandoned the project. This was a project that I took on, beginning the first season of Gambit's Cup... 2 Other seasons would follow, increasing in prize pool, however, in terms of season, the order of quality was probably 3, 1, 2... The second season was a disaster due to length, there is no denying that. in terms of playoffs, the best season was 2, 3, 1 in my opinion however... which is unfortunate that I believe the best potential was lost.
In between Gambit's Cup 2 and 3 I also played a major organization role in Altitude Nation Wars.
Despite popular belief, I have done the majority of my work on my own, the development in skill of organization would be credited majorly to game, which in of itself is a huge time saver. Unfortunately, due to this association, I would also gain a lot of enemies because generally, teams thought that I favored LRM in clan events, which to be fair... I wanted them to win, which made me have to moderate them extra hard in most cases. This ended up creating a lot of enemies, including some on LRM itself because they were generally the ones feeling the stress.
Past this point, things get really rocky...
I started up several leagues simultaneously, which didn't work because I had no time to run them (Ladder league) and (European LAN). I met a ton of controversy and eventually (becoming my biggest mistake to the BW community) essentially told them to screw themselves.
After this, I went ahead and started the Liquid Pasture Community League which is a community Dota 2 league which was taken over by leloup (much thanks to him) at season 2 due to my inability to remain active. This is the only league which I built the foundation for remaining it is currently in season 4.
On July 17th, 2013... I requested to Heyoka to terminate my account.
I am a strong believer in that for my case, 80% of success is just showing up applies... Coming into the scene, I was a nobody with no experience in running anything, I learned what I could and when things worked out, people cheer, when they don't, people boo. The problem I had before was that there was no detachment, as you can see by what I have above + the fact that I used to play Brood War, Brood War was a lifestyle for me... My temperament got progressively worse to the point where I convinced people to do stuff for the sole sake of mocking them for it, one more famous than any others involving iCCup.
thanks for the summary. Explains things a lot better so I have an idea of what's going on. All I can really say is don't let the hate get to you and keep working at what tourneys you have in mind to the best of your abilities. Best of luck!
On February 03 2014 14:38 thezanursic wrote: You got a lot of hate in the past for way over promising, but nobody can deny that if it weren't for you the scene would be way more inactive if it weren't for you.
So if you manage to actually run something with realistic expectations...
Very curious who would accept an "invite-only" tour unless the money was upfront to a third party, not handled by Eywa or there was some actual credibility to this claim, once again by another party.
He offered TL to hold the prize pool to increase the legitimacy of the tournament.
Also, we desperately need more foreign BW events and yet most people are still being bitter and negative all the time. I don't get it.
If someone else hosted the tournament and said "sponsored by Eywa" I think it would be better than him opening a thread and saying he will organize events. TBH the negativity isn't unreasonable considering his attendance and updating of event information wasn't anywhere near punctual. For someone who needs a lot of help but is very concerned on doing everything himself, he should work harder rather than come back and bark his big talk again. Further, saying you are sorry with half ass threads like these don't admit any sort of guilt, if he REALLY wanted to redeem himself, he would've just had someone else open up a thread and everything ALREADY TO GO, then have somewhere noted that he was overshadowing/sponsoring/organized everything. I do however appreciate your confirmation.
On February 04 2014 07:07 dRaW wrote: Very curious who would accept an "invite-only" tour unless the money was upfront to a third party, not handled by Eywa or there was some actual credibility to this claim, once again by another party.
I'm not sure I understand. The tournament is, afaik, online; in other words there are no expenses involved. What reason would there to be not to participate? Worst possible case is there was no prize pool and you got to play some decent series against good players much like any other day on icc/fish.
The last organized tour, he didn't show up and expected all the players to organize themselves into groups, play the games, report the games, etc. There was no update, no cast, no forum posts, nothing so it was time wasted. Sure you can say, "Oh I practiced vs good players and did this and that" but most players in the BW community actually want some injected competitive spirit and we get a bit demoralized when these situations arise.
Switching shifts, I think we need to change the approach a bit. Consider we try to recruit/market/volunteer to behind the scenes efforts. Example: Thread work, casters, statistic updates, video hype, interviews etc. We have many great people who already do this and I couldn't possibly name them all but they could use the help. I find that when the event has well timed updates and run smoothly, more people participate and it makes the players want to actually try harder to perform well.
Conclusion, I'll wait to see how it unfolds but improvement in infrastructure should be taken into consideration before always throwing tournaments at players/viewers. (it really killed us in STL, but was fantastic in TLS)
On February 04 2014 09:45 BigFan wrote: Maybe someone can explain to me why Eywa seems to have some haters. I wasn't as involved in the scene back then although I do recall a blog from Nina challenging him and such way back. From what I understand, he made promises and couldn't keep them. That's all I'm getting from the posts above at least.
As I said in the OP, I have no intention of hiding or pretending I didn't do what happened before. The division of haters was created before most of the things which I knock myself for. Not that I can say I didn't play a part in that, the division of haters is as much a feat of mine as it is of theirs, I did not come back to make war with them. For a very brief and summarized history:
First event was a king of the hill which probably no one remembers hosted on iCCup with the help of the iCCup staff
I offered my services to LRM)Game in ISL1 for write ups and interviews at the semi-final level. - This is the point where Nina, Gecko and I became opposed... Just getting more severe over the ages because there was ultimatum offered from both sides, and I chose one over the other. There was unnecessary bm on both sides, worsening over the years.
I was interested in organizing and so, I partnered with Game to benefit from his skill set making the justin.tv king of the hill
Following the good reception of that, I created twitch.tv king of the hill
After that, joe kim was going to make a clan league, but didn't think it had enough steam to take off, so he abandoned the project. This was a project that I took on, beginning the first season of Gambit's Cup... 2 Other seasons would follow, increasing in prize pool, however, in terms of season, the order of quality was probably 3, 1, 2... The second season was a disaster due to length, there is no denying that. in terms of playoffs, the best season was 2, 3, 1 in my opinion however... which is unfortunate that I believe the best potential was lost.
In between Gambit's Cup 2 and 3 I also played a major organization role in Altitude Nation Wars.
Despite popular belief, I have done the majority of my work on my own, the development in skill of organization would be credited majorly to game, which in of itself is a huge time saver. Unfortunately, due to this association, I would also gain a lot of enemies because generally, teams thought that I favored LRM in clan events, which to be fair... I wanted them to win, which made me have to moderate them extra hard in most cases. This ended up creating a lot of enemies, including some on LRM itself because they were generally the ones feeling the stress.
Past this point, things get really rocky...
I started up several leagues simultaneously, which didn't work because I had no time to run them (Ladder league) and (European LAN). I met a ton of controversy and eventually (becoming my biggest mistake to the BW community) essentially told them to screw themselves.
After this, I went ahead and started the Liquid Pasture Community League which is a community Dota 2 league which was taken over by leloup (much thanks to him) at season 2 due to my inability to remain active. This is the only league which I built the foundation for remaining it is currently in season 4.
On July 17th, 2013... I requested to Heyoka to terminate my account.
I am a strong believer in that for my case, 80% of success is just showing up applies... Coming into the scene, I was a nobody with no experience in running anything, I learned what I could and when things worked out, people cheer, when they don't, people boo. The problem I had before was that there was no detachment, as you can see by what I have above + the fact that I used to play Brood War, Brood War was a lifestyle for me... My temperament got progressively worse to the point where I convinced people to do stuff for the sole sake of mocking them for it, one more famous than any others involving iCCup.
thanks for the summary. Explains things a lot better so I have an idea of what's going on. All I can really say is don't let the hate get to you and keep working at what tourneys you have in mind to the best of your abilities. Best of luck!
You should not only listen to one side of the story, there is MUCH more than that to it. Ask yourself why people like DraW dislikes him? Do you think the post of Eywa tells the whole truth? Not even close.
I, for myself, think he should be given one more chance, but he has to prove that ALL of the prizemoney he is promising is transferred to a 3rd party (TL admin or whatever). Then we could talk about it.
Also I do not see why an invitational should be any more legitimate than a open to all series? If you only invite your friends to play, then go ahead, but do not make a topic about it (I do not question Invitationals in general, but in Eywa's case, you never can be sure).
Interesting. Tell us more about big injustices in the world that you've witnessed.
You might think differently if it was you the OP would've targeted over 2+ years around multiple pages with great success. May I remind you it ended so badly, that he convinced his follower (who already posted here) to write fake suicide notes. Nevermind, it's going to be my last post. There is this minimal change that his come back might be positive.
On February 04 2014 10:32 BigFan wrote:
thanks for the summary. Explains things a lot better so I have an idea of what's going on. All I can really say is don't let the hate get to you and keep working at what tourneys you have in mind to the best of your abilities. Best of luck!
That would be one side. His last ~3 threads to BW related topics speak for themselves.
you shouldn't just dismiss people as haters. they aren't hating on you, but what you did. they are calling you out fair and square. that said, if we can keep the drama out of this then all should be fine.
On February 04 2014 11:28 dRaW wrote: The last organized tour, he didn't show up and expected all the players to organize themselves into groups, play the games, report the games, etc. There was no update, no cast, no forum posts, nothing so it was time wasted. Sure you can say, "Oh I practiced vs good players and did this and that" but most players in the BW community actually want some injected competitive spirit and we get a bit demoralized when these situations arise.
ya, this is quite bad lol. Hopefully, he puts in the work this time.
On February 04 2014 09:45 BigFan wrote: Maybe someone can explain to me why Eywa seems to have some haters. I wasn't as involved in the scene back then although I do recall a blog from Nina challenging him and such way back. From what I understand, he made promises and couldn't keep them. That's all I'm getting from the posts above at least.
As I said in the OP, I have no intention of hiding or pretending I didn't do what happened before. The division of haters was created before most of the things which I knock myself for. Not that I can say I didn't play a part in that, the division of haters is as much a feat of mine as it is of theirs, I did not come back to make war with them. For a very brief and summarized history:
First event was a king of the hill which probably no one remembers hosted on iCCup with the help of the iCCup staff
I offered my services to LRM)Game in ISL1 for write ups and interviews at the semi-final level. - This is the point where Nina, Gecko and I became opposed... Just getting more severe over the ages because there was ultimatum offered from both sides, and I chose one over the other. There was unnecessary bm on both sides, worsening over the years.
I was interested in organizing and so, I partnered with Game to benefit from his skill set making the justin.tv king of the hill
Following the good reception of that, I created twitch.tv king of the hill
After that, joe kim was going to make a clan league, but didn't think it had enough steam to take off, so he abandoned the project. This was a project that I took on, beginning the first season of Gambit's Cup... 2 Other seasons would follow, increasing in prize pool, however, in terms of season, the order of quality was probably 3, 1, 2... The second season was a disaster due to length, there is no denying that. in terms of playoffs, the best season was 2, 3, 1 in my opinion however... which is unfortunate that I believe the best potential was lost.
In between Gambit's Cup 2 and 3 I also played a major organization role in Altitude Nation Wars.
Despite popular belief, I have done the majority of my work on my own, the development in skill of organization would be credited majorly to game, which in of itself is a huge time saver. Unfortunately, due to this association, I would also gain a lot of enemies because generally, teams thought that I favored LRM in clan events, which to be fair... I wanted them to win, which made me have to moderate them extra hard in most cases. This ended up creating a lot of enemies, including some on LRM itself because they were generally the ones feeling the stress.
Past this point, things get really rocky...
I started up several leagues simultaneously, which didn't work because I had no time to run them (Ladder league) and (European LAN). I met a ton of controversy and eventually (becoming my biggest mistake to the BW community) essentially told them to screw themselves.
After this, I went ahead and started the Liquid Pasture Community League which is a community Dota 2 league which was taken over by leloup (much thanks to him) at season 2 due to my inability to remain active. This is the only league which I built the foundation for remaining it is currently in season 4.
On July 17th, 2013... I requested to Heyoka to terminate my account.
I am a strong believer in that for my case, 80% of success is just showing up applies... Coming into the scene, I was a nobody with no experience in running anything, I learned what I could and when things worked out, people cheer, when they don't, people boo. The problem I had before was that there was no detachment, as you can see by what I have above + the fact that I used to play Brood War, Brood War was a lifestyle for me... My temperament got progressively worse to the point where I convinced people to do stuff for the sole sake of mocking them for it, one more famous than any others involving iCCup.
thanks for the summary. Explains things a lot better so I have an idea of what's going on. All I can really say is don't let the hate get to you and keep working at what tourneys you have in mind to the best of your abilities. Best of luck!
You should not only listen to one side of the story, there is MUCH more than that to it. Ask yourself why people like DraW dislikes him? Do you think the post of Eywa tells the whole truth? Not even close.
I, for myself, think he should be given one more chance, but he has to prove that ALL of the prizemoney he is promising is transferred to a 3rd party (TL admin or whatever). Then we could talk about it.
Also I do not see why an invitational should be any more legitimate than a open to all series? If you only invite your friends to play, then go ahead, but do not make a topic about it (I do not question Invitationals in general, but in Eywa's case, you never can be sure).
my question was asked for whoever wanted to answer. Eywa decided to tell me his side of the story. So far, no one else has told me the other side of it so I can only decide with the partial information that I have. Either way, his actions will speak for him so if he's sincere this time, it'll be obvious. He already took the first step in planning to give TL the money so that it's more legit. All you can do is watch and see what happens.
Interesting. Tell us more about big injustices in the world that you've witnessed.
You might think differently if it was you the OP would've targeted over 2+ years around multiple pages with great success. May I remind you it ended so badly, that he convinced his follower (who already posted here) to write fake suicide notes. Nevermind, it's going to be my last post. There is this minimal change that his come back might be positive.
thanks for the summary. Explains things a lot better so I have an idea of what's going on. All I can really say is don't let the hate get to you and keep working at what tourneys you have in mind to the best of your abilities. Best of luck!
That would be one side. His last ~3 threads to BW related topics speak for themselves.
Let's see what he does now and what results he delivers. I still think he could've invested in one of these organizations/funds
- SBWI - defiler.ru - BWCL / inCup (former bw4ever) - reps LAN fund - TLS prize pool
instead of insisting to run it on his own behalf to build up trust again and underline his intentions. All of the above proved they're capable.
thanks for the links. More insight into the story. Selling hockey cards to fund a tournament is not a good idea. I'm actually not even sure how much money you can make from selling them. I imagine not enough to fund a tournament though. I can understand where the distrust is coming from. Best to just wait and see for now.
On February 03 2014 14:38 thezanursic wrote: You got a lot of hate in the past for way over promising, but nobody can deny that if it weren't for you the scene would be way more inactive if it weren't for you.
So if you manage to actually run something with realistic expectations...
Very curious who would accept an "invite-only" tour unless the money was upfront to a third party, not handled by Eywa or there was some actual credibility to this claim, once again by another party.
He offered TL to hold the prize pool to increase the legitimacy of the tournament.
Also, we desperately need more foreign BW events and yet most people are still being bitter and negative all the time. I don't get it.
If someone else hosted the tournament and said "sponsored by Eywa" I think it would be better than him opening a thread and saying he will organize events. TBH the negativity isn't unreasonable considering his attendance and updating of event information wasn't anywhere near punctual. For someone who needs a lot of help but is very concerned on doing everything himself, he should work harder rather than come back and bark his big talk again. Further, saying you are sorry with half ass threads like these don't admit any sort of guilt, if he REALLY wanted to redeem himself, he would've just had someone else open up a thread and everything ALREADY TO GO, then have somewhere noted that he was overshadowing/sponsoring/organized everything. I do however appreciate your confirmation.
On February 04 2014 07:07 dRaW wrote: Very curious who would accept an "invite-only" tour unless the money was upfront to a third party, not handled by Eywa or there was some actual credibility to this claim, once again by another party.
I'm not sure I understand. The tournament is, afaik, online; in other words there are no expenses involved. What reason would there to be not to participate? Worst possible case is there was no prize pool and you got to play some decent series against good players much like any other day on icc/fish.
The last organized tour, he didn't show up and expected all the players to organize themselves into groups, play the games, report the games, etc. There was no update, no cast, no forum posts, nothing so it was time wasted. Sure you can say, "Oh I practiced vs good players and did this and that" but most players in the BW community actually want some injected competitive spirit and we get a bit demoralized when these situations arise.
Switching shifts, I think we need to change the approach a bit. Consider we try to recruit/market/volunteer to behind the scenes efforts. Example: Thread work, casters, statistic updates, video hype, interviews etc. We have many great people who already do this and I couldn't possibly name them all but they could use the help. I find that when the event has well timed updates and run smoothly, more people participate and it makes the players want to actually try harder to perform well.
Conclusion, I'll wait to see how it unfolds but improvement in infrastructure should be taken into consideration before always throwing tournaments at players/viewers. (it really killed us in STL, but was fantastic in TLS)
This is all valid criticism, which actually I've been advocating for a long time. I'm also a fan of just doing things instead of announcements of doing things (hence my signature quote).
I'm just saying that it would be better for the foreign BW scene if this happen, than if it doesn't happen. Shutting it down from the get-go because of your personal hatred towards a person in charge is not the best way to go about things. Giving people context on who's behind it is important (not with cheap pot shots though), so everyone can decide for themselves how much they want to invest their interest in this.
On February 03 2014 14:38 thezanursic wrote: You got a lot of hate in the past for way over promising, but nobody can deny that if it weren't for you the scene would be way more inactive if it weren't for you.
So if you manage to actually run something with realistic expectations...
Very curious who would accept an "invite-only" tour unless the money was upfront to a third party, not handled by Eywa or there was some actual credibility to this claim, once again by another party.
He offered TL to hold the prize pool to increase the legitimacy of the tournament.
Also, we desperately need more foreign BW events and yet most people are still being bitter and negative all the time. I don't get it.
If someone else hosted the tournament and said "sponsored by Eywa" I think it would be better than him opening a thread and saying he will organize events. TBH the negativity isn't unreasonable considering his attendance and updating of event information wasn't anywhere near punctual. For someone who needs a lot of help but is very concerned on doing everything himself, he should work harder rather than come back and bark his big talk again. Further, saying you are sorry with half ass threads like these don't admit any sort of guilt, if he REALLY wanted to redeem himself, he would've just had someone else open up a thread and everything ALREADY TO GO, then have somewhere noted that he was overshadowing/sponsoring/organized everything. I do however appreciate your confirmation.
On February 04 2014 08:59 L_Master wrote:
On February 04 2014 07:07 dRaW wrote: Very curious who would accept an "invite-only" tour unless the money was upfront to a third party, not handled by Eywa or there was some actual credibility to this claim, once again by another party.
I'm not sure I understand. The tournament is, afaik, online; in other words there are no expenses involved. What reason would there to be not to participate? Worst possible case is there was no prize pool and you got to play some decent series against good players much like any other day on icc/fish.
The last organized tour, he didn't show up and expected all the players to organize themselves into groups, play the games, report the games, etc. There was no update, no cast, no forum posts, nothing so it was time wasted. Sure you can say, "Oh I practiced vs good players and did this and that" but most players in the BW community actually want some injected competitive spirit and we get a bit demoralized when these situations arise.
Switching shifts, I think we need to change the approach a bit. Consider we try to recruit/market/volunteer to behind the scenes efforts. Example: Thread work, casters, statistic updates, video hype, interviews etc. We have many great people who already do this and I couldn't possibly name them all but they could use the help. I find that when the event has well timed updates and run smoothly, more people participate and it makes the players want to actually try harder to perform well.
Conclusion, I'll wait to see how it unfolds but improvement in infrastructure should be taken into consideration before always throwing tournaments at players/viewers. (it really killed us in STL, but was fantastic in TLS)
This is all valid criticism, which actually I've been advocating for a long time. I'm also a fan of just doing things instead of announcements of doing things (hence my signature quote).
I'm just saying that it would be better for the foreign BW scene if this happen, than if it doesn't happen. Shutting it down from the get-go because of your personal hatred towards a person in charge is not the best way to go about things. Giving people context on who's behind it is important (not with cheap pot shots though), so everyone can decide for themselves how much they want to invest their interest in this.
I agree in principle and it also turned out causing me to mess up a lot by not abiding to this rule. However, in my case I am not sure that straight up posting something else would be a better alternative just due to the situation. The thread is less of an announcement in that sense and more of a request to distinguish event from person.
On February 04 2014 09:45 BigFan wrote: Maybe someone can explain to me why Eywa seems to have some haters. I wasn't as involved in the scene back then although I do recall a blog from Nina challenging him and such way back. From what I understand, he made promises and couldn't keep them. That's all I'm getting from the posts above at least.
As I said in the OP, I have no intention of hiding or pretending I didn't do what happened before. The division of haters was created before most of the things which I knock myself for. Not that I can say I didn't play a part in that, the division of haters is as much a feat of mine as it is of theirs, I did not come back to make war with them. For a very brief and summarized history:
First event was a king of the hill which probably no one remembers hosted on iCCup with the help of the iCCup staff
I offered my services to LRM)Game in ISL1 for write ups and interviews at the semi-final level. - This is the point where Nina, Gecko and I became opposed... Just getting more severe over the ages because there was ultimatum offered from both sides, and I chose one over the other. There was unnecessary bm on both sides, worsening over the years.
I was interested in organizing and so, I partnered with Game to benefit from his skill set making the justin.tv king of the hill
Following the good reception of that, I created twitch.tv king of the hill
After that, joe kim was going to make a clan league, but didn't think it had enough steam to take off, so he abandoned the project. This was a project that I took on, beginning the first season of Gambit's Cup... 2 Other seasons would follow, increasing in prize pool, however, in terms of season, the order of quality was probably 3, 1, 2... The second season was a disaster due to length, there is no denying that. in terms of playoffs, the best season was 2, 3, 1 in my opinion however... which is unfortunate that I believe the best potential was lost.
In between Gambit's Cup 2 and 3 I also played a major organization role in Altitude Nation Wars.
Despite popular belief, I have done the majority of my work on my own, the development in skill of organization would be credited majorly to game, which in of itself is a huge time saver. Unfortunately, due to this association, I would also gain a lot of enemies because generally, teams thought that I favored LRM in clan events, which to be fair... I wanted them to win, which made me have to moderate them extra hard in most cases. This ended up creating a lot of enemies, including some on LRM itself because they were generally the ones feeling the stress.
Past this point, things get really rocky...
I started up several leagues simultaneously, which didn't work because I had no time to run them (Ladder league) and (European LAN). I met a ton of controversy and eventually (becoming my biggest mistake to the BW community) essentially told them to screw themselves.
After this, I went ahead and started the Liquid Pasture Community League which is a community Dota 2 league which was taken over by leloup (much thanks to him) at season 2 due to my inability to remain active. This is the only league which I built the foundation for remaining it is currently in season 4.
On July 17th, 2013... I requested to Heyoka to terminate my account.
I am a strong believer in that for my case, 80% of success is just showing up applies... Coming into the scene, I was a nobody with no experience in running anything, I learned what I could and when things worked out, people cheer, when they don't, people boo. The problem I had before was that there was no detachment, as you can see by what I have above + the fact that I used to play Brood War, Brood War was a lifestyle for me... My temperament got progressively worse to the point where I convinced people to do stuff for the sole sake of mocking them for it, one more famous than any others involving iCCup.
thanks for the summary. Explains things a lot better so I have an idea of what's going on. All I can really say is don't let the hate get to you and keep working at what tourneys you have in mind to the best of your abilities. Best of luck!
You should not only listen to one side of the story, there is MUCH more than that to it. Ask yourself why people like DraW dislikes him? Do you think the post of Eywa tells the whole truth? Not even close.
I, for myself, think he should be given one more chance, but he has to prove that ALL of the prizemoney he is promising is transferred to a 3rd party (TL admin or whatever). Then we could talk about it.
Also I do not see why an invitational should be any more legitimate than a open to all series? If you only invite your friends to play, then go ahead, but do not make a topic about it (I do not question Invitationals in general, but in Eywa's case, you never can be sure).
I fully agree with the first two parts.
The third, I will answer because it is a legitimate question, it is not more credible for those participating, the major point was that a sign up would wind up with roughly the same group of people as an invite-only would. In that respect, from an outside perspective, it is no more credible... It's just the only thing that's possible. I hope that clarifies the point I was trying to make.
On February 03 2014 14:38 thezanursic wrote: You got a lot of hate in the past for way over promising, but nobody can deny that if it weren't for you the scene would be way more inactive if it weren't for you.
So if you manage to actually run something with realistic expectations...
Very curious who would accept an "invite-only" tour unless the money was upfront to a third party, not handled by Eywa or there was some actual credibility to this claim, once again by another party.
He offered TL to hold the prize pool to increase the legitimacy of the tournament.
Also, we desperately need more foreign BW events and yet most people are still being bitter and negative all the time. I don't get it.
If someone else hosted the tournament and said "sponsored by Eywa" I think it would be better than him opening a thread and saying he will organize events. TBH the negativity isn't unreasonable considering his attendance and updating of event information wasn't anywhere near punctual. For someone who needs a lot of help but is very concerned on doing everything himself, he should work harder rather than come back and bark his big talk again. Further, saying you are sorry with half ass threads like these don't admit any sort of guilt, if he REALLY wanted to redeem himself, he would've just had someone else open up a thread and everything ALREADY TO GO, then have somewhere noted that he was overshadowing/sponsoring/organized everything. I do however appreciate your confirmation.
On February 04 2014 07:07 dRaW wrote: Very curious who would accept an "invite-only" tour unless the money was upfront to a third party, not handled by Eywa or there was some actual credibility to this claim, once again by another party.
I'm not sure I understand. The tournament is, afaik, online; in other words there are no expenses involved. What reason would there to be not to participate? Worst possible case is there was no prize pool and you got to play some decent series against good players much like any other day on icc/fish.
The last organized tour, he didn't show up and expected all the players to organize themselves into groups, play the games, report the games, etc. There was no update, no cast, no forum posts, nothing so it was time wasted. Sure you can say, "Oh I practiced vs good players and did this and that" but most players in the BW community actually want some injected competitive spirit and we get a bit demoralized when these situations arise.
Switching shifts, I think we need to change the approach a bit. Consider we try to recruit/market/volunteer to behind the scenes efforts. Example: Thread work, casters, statistic updates, video hype, interviews etc. We have many great people who already do this and I couldn't possibly name them all but they could use the help. I find that when the event has well timed updates and run smoothly, more people participate and it makes the players want to actually try harder to perform well.
Conclusion, I'll wait to see how it unfolds but improvement in infrastructure should be taken into consideration before always throwing tournaments at players/viewers. (it really killed us in STL, but was fantastic in TLS)
I don't disagree with a lot that was said, the only thing is, there is misinterpretation going on (on both sides perhaps).
I do not intend on making any comprehensive tournaments for all Brood War players at this point, nor is there an announcement for that. When I first presented the tournament, I actually suggested that it could be played offline (as in - no stream or public view - Not LAN), it was decided that it would be best otherwise. Also, to say that I am working alone on this would be inaccurate as well and it remains unclear how much of a role I will play in the organization itself.
You guys are just neglecting many important aspects. I am not hating on anything. For one, eywa was never upfront with any information - everything was always hidden so he can 'make it up on the fly' or appear so. I am saying if you make a thread like this, you know fully well before you've made the thread what your intentions are.
Rather than this I would like to see: Name of Tournament, legitimate sponsors, which admins are in charge, who is making announcements/casting/etc, list of players, times and dates.
The fact that you are always dancing around facts and legitimacy is more troubling than these posts about making something happen, anyone can say they will do something, so if you have plans to do it just do it, don't announce plans about it. (esp with the reputation, and I didn't expect any large scale tournaments anyway. @ 2pacalypse I agree that it's good to get help from whoever but I just see a post so far and no action, given the person who has presented this idea there's no reason to give a chance until proven otherwise. This is like Telecom getting players into korean clans and stating he's a gosu player, except worse)
On February 04 2014 16:48 Golgotha wrote: you shouldn't just dismiss people as haters. they aren't hating on you, but what you did. they are calling you out fair and square. that said, if we can keep the drama out of this then all should be fine.
People project images of themselves, especially on the Internet, thus, it is important to understand what you did wrong in as many situations as possible, however, I disagree that you shouldn't dismiss people who hate you so long as you don't dismiss the message. A human being by default is incapable of taking massive amounts of hate without any kind of emotional throwback whatsoever and generally, due to this biological factor, you tend to have situations where people get ignored if their message doesn't get presented in the right manner... It happens everywhere, in fact, I would argue that this is least prominent on the internet because people are accustomed to more of a rough environment. Consider the internet to be a caricature of the person, with everything amplified for better and for worse.
On February 04 2014 09:45 BigFan wrote: Maybe someone can explain to me why Eywa seems to have some haters. I wasn't as involved in the scene back then although I do recall a blog from Nina challenging him and such way back. From what I understand, he made promises and couldn't keep them. That's all I'm getting from the posts above at least.
Unfortunately, due to this association, I would also gain a lot of enemies because generally, teams thought that I favored LRM in clan events, which to be fair... I wanted them to win, which made me have to moderate them extra hard in most cases. This ended up creating a lot of enemies, including some on LRM itself because they were generally the ones feeling the stress.
Wow you are admitting it now.. (Not that we couldn't guess it though we aren't idiots.)
Anyway you know I am not your biggest fan but hope that the new tournaments will be run smoothly. At the end of the day it's your money/sponsor but still I believe most of us would like the tournament to be handled more fairly/transparently. I.e. you do do the admin work and maybe delegate tasks to other less biased people...
On February 04 2014 23:02 Boonbag wrote: i say give the tournament money directly to the best current foreigner so he can move korea and play in afreeca events o_O
that's the only way to prove your sincerity and you won't have to deal with any shortcoming
Omg you're still around. Can you write more Pro-gaming (or korea) tales please TT
On February 04 2014 09:45 BigFan wrote: Maybe someone can explain to me why Eywa seems to have some haters. I wasn't as involved in the scene back then although I do recall a blog from Nina challenging him and such way back. From what I understand, he made promises and couldn't keep them. That's all I'm getting from the posts above at least.
Unfortunately, due to this association, I would also gain a lot of enemies because generally, teams thought that I favored LRM in clan events, which to be fair... I wanted them to win, which made me have to moderate them extra hard in most cases. This ended up creating a lot of enemies, including some on LRM itself because they were generally the ones feeling the stress.
Wow you are admitting it now.. (Not that we couldn't guess it though we aren't idiots.)
Anyway you know I am not your biggest fan but hope that the new tournaments will be run smoothly. At the end of the day it's your money/sponsor but still I believe most of us would like the tournament to be handled more fairly/transparently. I.e. you do do the admin work and maybe delegate tasks to other less biased people...
On February 04 2014 23:02 Boonbag wrote: i say give the tournament money directly to the best current foreigner so he can move korea and play in afreeca events o_O
that's the only way to prove your sincerity and you won't have to deal with any shortcoming
Omg you're still around. Can you write more Pro-gaming (or korea) tales please TT
You misread, I was biased against LRM because I knew if I didn't do that, there would be problems.
On February 04 2014 09:45 BigFan wrote: Maybe someone can explain to me why Eywa seems to have some haters. I wasn't as involved in the scene back then although I do recall a blog from Nina challenging him and such way back. From what I understand, he made promises and couldn't keep them. That's all I'm getting from the posts above at least.
Unfortunately, due to this association, I would also gain a lot of enemies because generally, teams thought that I favored LRM in clan events, which to be fair... I wanted them to win, which made me have to moderate them extra hard in most cases. This ended up creating a lot of enemies, including some on LRM itself because they were generally the ones feeling the stress.
Wow you are admitting it now.. (Not that we couldn't guess it though we aren't idiots.)
Anyway you know I am not your biggest fan but hope that the new tournaments will be run smoothly. At the end of the day it's your money/sponsor but still I believe most of us would like the tournament to be handled more fairly/transparently. I.e. you do do the admin work and maybe delegate tasks to other less biased people...
On February 04 2014 23:02 Boonbag wrote: i say give the tournament money directly to the best current foreigner so he can move korea and play in afreeca events o_O
that's the only way to prove your sincerity and you won't have to deal with any shortcoming
Omg you're still around. Can you write more Pro-gaming (or korea) tales please TT
You misread, I was biased against LRM because I knew if I didn't do that, there would be problems.
Sorry that I have misread it. Wanting LRM) to win while moderating them extra hard does seem a bit contradictory though, does it not? Anyway no point arguing it doesn't change my initial message in that we'd want a transparent tournament.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/euLq22x.gif)
i am sad pusheen![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/j9075u8.jpg)
