EPTKeSPA asks blizzard to stop ~ - Page 11
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Darksoldierr
Hungary2013 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
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lemmata
468 Posts
On December 03 2013 04:53 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: I can confidently assure you that without Savior, the tournament, while still passable, would've attracted far, far less interest than it did. With all due respect, that's kind of meaningless without data. Also, what is far less? 10%, 20% less? Also, how much of the extra interest is negative versus positive? This is a conjecture, just as my own speculation about the attendance was. We also ignored the possibility of who could have replaced Savior in the lineup. What if Bisu didn't have passport issues and made it to the tourney instead of Savior? We don't get to observe those counterfactuals. On December 03 2013 04:53 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: That's a great attitude, but unfortunately I think it's a tad naive. What remains of the scene is built upon the old, and everything we have right now is pretty much a callback to the golden days of BW - the team tournaments we have are still organized by the old proleague teams, for example. As stands, the only people who are really playing/invovled in the scene are old BW pros/semi-pros, without a real influx of new amateurs. These are technically "new" names, but they're still old names in that they have been around, to varying degrees of prominence, in the old BW pro-scene. At this point, realistically speaking, I think it will be impossible to have a wholly new scene without calling upon the memories of the old scene every step of the way, mainly because, well, the names we see today have a strong overlap with the names we saw three years ago. How about calling upon the positive memories of the old scene instead of opening up not-so-old wounds? Sonic is doing a great job with this with a far inferior budget. I agree that a link to the past is an effective marketing tool. It's just common sense that Savior is not the right "old timer" to use for such an event. Ignoring everything else, Savior's presence divides the already dwindling BW community. It makes the event seem less classy, like a wrestling match that is going for cheap notoriety. This is unfair to SCNTV, which seems to have done a great job other than inviting a convicted match-fixer, but when you lie with dogs, you get up with fleas. It makes it look like SCNTV is trying to make a quick buck from the short-term burst in attention rather than trying to set up something that is sustainable. Chinese fans are passionate and great, which makes it all the more sad that they have to be associated with this mess. | ||
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lemmata
468 Posts
On December 03 2013 06:32 Darksoldierr wrote: Kespa is retarded Agreed on the conclusion, although not on the reason. They've been retarded for a while now. On December 03 2013 06:40 mizU wrote: it seems like people forget savior wasn't the only one who match fixed? No. People do remember. He's just the ring leader who actively recruited those other guys into match-fixing. He's also the only one who really didn't need the money (hence motive=greed rather than need). It makes sense that Al Capone catches more flak than his henchmen, right? | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On December 03 2013 06:46 lemmata wrote: Agreed on the conclusion, although not on the reason. They've been retarded for a while now. No. People do remember. He's just the ring leader who actively recruited those other guys into match-fixing. He's also the only one who really didn't need the money (hence motive=greed rather than need). It makes sense that Al Capone catches more flak than his henchmen, right? I think there was someone above him tho, Justin I think? he was just the middle man anyway iirc | ||
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a3den
704 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On December 03 2013 06:40 mizU wrote: it seems like people forget savior wasn't the only one who match fixed? selective memory lol. Savior was the most popular from all of them so naturally, he was the best to use as a scapegoat to send a message. On December 03 2013 06:42 lemmata wrote: With all due respect, that's kind of meaningless without data. Also, what is far less? 10%, 20% less? Also, how much of the extra interest is negative versus positive? This is a conjecture, just as my own speculation about the attendance was. We also ignored the possibility of who could have replaced Savior in the lineup. What if Bisu didn't have passport issues and made it to the tourney instead of Savior? We don't get to observe those counterfactuals. I can't put a number on it but from what I've read from Savior's partner's experience, it shows that the Chinese are more concerned about skills than about the past(someone posted about this in better and more details in this thread). Since you may have missed this, the SCNTV representative or whoever it was posted in this thread indicating that the organizer wanted Saviour in the tournament. From that, we can come to two options: a) either the organizer was a diehard savior fan who wanted him there badly regardless of outcome or b) they felt positive > negative so it was more beneficial for them to have him there. Point? Based on that experience and options, I have to agree with sheep and lean more towards savior being there attracted more interest in the tournament. | ||
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On December 03 2013 07:47 BigFan wrote: selective memory lol. Savior was the most popular from all of them so naturally, he was the best to use as a scapegoat to send a message. No. Savior was the mind behind it. Afaik he never fixed one of his own matches, but he was the go to guy that recruited the other progamers into the matchfixing. | ||
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Ry2D2
United States429 Posts
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Stratos
Czech Republic6104 Posts
On December 03 2013 07:47 BigFan wrote: I can't put a number on it but from what I've read from Savior's partner's experience, it shows that the Chinese are more concerned about skills than about the past. This will be pretty damn accurate if you make it the other way around, good job. Chinese like Savior because their own celebrities can keep up with him, so what they want him for is his past fame and glory. | ||
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Deleted User 173346
16169 Posts
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Hydro033
United States136 Posts
On December 02 2013 18:10 arb wrote: ya blizzard needs to get the fuck on and stay away. they ruined BW in the first place promoting the shitty sequel. they need to stay out of BW unless they plan on reviving it. You can just be realistic and realize that a game made in '98 wouldn't last forever... | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On December 03 2013 08:19 Hydro033 wrote: You can just be realistic and realize that a game made in '98 wouldn't last forever... I can also be realistic in my statement of : It shouldnt have been cut down for an inferior game just because it has the name "Starcraft" in the title either. | ||
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lemmata
468 Posts
On December 03 2013 07:47 BigFan wrote: selective memory lol. Savior was the most popular from all of them so naturally, he was the best to use as a scapegoat to send a message. Making statements like this deprives you of all credibility. Like to make up stories much? If anything, the corporate interests had a huge incentive to cover up everything to protect CJ, which owns OGN and also has a ton of political influence in Korea. We don't speculate about that because that is all conjecture and zero substance. On December 03 2013 07:47 BigFan wrote:I can't put a number on it but from what I've read from Savior's partner's experience, it shows that the Chinese are more concerned about skills than about the past(someone posted about this in better and more details in this thread). Since you may have missed this, the SCNTV representative or whoever it was posted in this thread indicating that the organizer wanted Saviour in the tournament. From that, we can come to two options: a) either the organizer was a diehard savior fan who wanted him there badly regardless of outcome or b) they felt positive > negative so it was more beneficial for them to have him there. Point? Based on that experience and options, I have to agree with sheep and lean more towards savior being there attracted more interest in the tournament. 1) Savior's partner's experience doesn't say much about commercial viability of the tournament if he was replaced by a Korean ex-pro with superior skill, especially when the "flower" of BW is 1v1 and 2v2 was historically more of a sideshow even when it was a part of ProLeague. 2) I wouldn't deny that Savior is quite knowledgeable about the game, but knowledge does not equal skill when you get old. If the organizers cared more about skill, there are plenty of ex-pros on Afreeca who can whip Savior's ass right now. 3) If the sponsor was indeed acting in its own best interests, then it revealed that it's best interests are tied to quick short-term gains rather than long-term sustainability of BW by insisting on having Savior present. I wouldn't deny that there are short-term advantages to the notoriety of Savior, but if you are trying to set up something credible for the long haul, then there are clearly superior alternatives out there. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18636 Posts
On December 03 2013 08:19 Hydro033 wrote: You can just be realistic and realize that a game made in '98 wouldn't last forever... Yeah... A game which is over ten years old surely can't last forever, right.... OMG all sports are ages old -.- | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2356 Posts
On December 03 2013 08:41 sharkie wrote: Yeah... A game which is over ten years old surely can't last forever, right.... OMG all sports are ages old -.- e-Sports and actual Sports are not quite the same thing. | ||
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Fuchsteufelswild
Australia2028 Posts
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EpiK
Korea (South)5757 Posts
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