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On December 02 2013 20:27 Stratos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 20:24 goody153 wrote:
as far as i know blizzard cant give a fuck on who plays their game as long as they brought it right? even if blizzard would want to intercept i dont think they could If you want to stream a BW tournament and make money of it, you need to obtain a license from Blizzard. Seems like Chinese don't care about that stuff too much and probably didn't bother getting one. Will they just show Blizzard the middle finger? I have no idea how this stuff works on international grounds.
And im pretty sure no ones gonna be able to get China to do shit tbh. Literally they have the highest piracy rate on the planet and everyone knows it(think I read on here it was like 95% orsomething one time) and I doubt they care about a license from blizzard anyway lol.
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China is a safe non judgmental place where all those who were shunned out of their community to join. They give the "New Life" opportunity. If China wants all these players in it, I have absolutely no problem, but more than likely history will repeat itself and I'm concerned that their scene will soon become corrupted.(If it already isn't) But concerns for KeSPA whining to Blizzard, its absolute bullshit, and keSPA really should get the fuck off Saviors back, and what's left of the Brood War Community.
I am all for China taking in whoever they want, cause their system seems to be working, and they have the crowd to do it.
But KeSPA needs to back down, and focus on what they are already doing SC2.
excuse the language but KeSPA just wants to ruin a man, and that in itself is unfair. They should have no jurisdiction outside of their country.
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Bisutopia19367 Posts
On December 03 2013 03:30 iFU.pauline wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 03:22 BisuDagger wrote:On December 03 2013 03:18 iFU.pauline wrote:sAviOr was banned from professional e-sport scene in Korea if I recall? In this case a sponsored tourney in China has nothing to do with this, if they are not happy about this news which is understandable, all I can say is "too bad for them", it's also their right to complain to Blizzard if they want. And Op, seriously posting a thread like this... if you just want people whining like you, make a private channel and baby cry with your friends. sAviOr's case is settled already, if you are not happy about this, try to do something about it maybe, cut off his hands or kill him so your wish will be exhausted. Seriously at this point, it's called a troll... Btw, those games were very entertaining  You gotta admit, these threads are reviving the BW community. Look how many pages they get. Kespa is so genius. This thread is reviving the bad side of brood war and it's not savior's fault in this case...
I was being sarcastic  However, the news side of the OP is needed because I think we are all very interested in following this story line regardless of the side we take.
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On December 03 2013 03:17 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 03:02 GGzerG wrote:On December 03 2013 02:17 ReachTheSky wrote:
savior fucked up and did his time, it's time to let go of the past. umm....no, the guy single handedly destroyed BW Esports, and now it is still ok for him to make 25K off BW ? Nah man just nah, he needs to be exiled so this game can regrow and flourish the way it used to. Why do people keep blaming saviour for the death of BW lol...
Its almost like Blizzard and KeSPA didn't work pretty much hand in hand to kill BW, the scene was alive for a while after they got caught match fixing.
Rekrul even hinted at it in a blog a few years before they got caught too iirc.
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I can't really seem to understand people who defend Savior. If they were really passionate about BW and reviving the scene, then they would know that letting Savior play in even foreign BW tournaments would only hurt the scene overall. The fact that they don't understand the consequences of letting Savior play BW competitively tells me that they either weren't there for the matchmaking scandal or they don't understand what the matchmaking scandal did for the BW scene back then. Just because you have forgiven Savior doesn't mean Korea has. Seeing as how Sonic is a Korean league and it is the only thing that can revive the BW scene, it doesn't make sense to say it is ok for Savior to play BW. If this causes sponsors to withdraw from Sonic then the BW scene will die. Why would sponsors try to sponsor a scene where someone like Savior can still play competitively, even if it is in foreign tournaments? It boggles my mind that people can defend Savior. You can be a fan of him and his days before the scandal but don't say he should be able to play after the scandal. What does the fact that he did not even apologize and that he is trying to make money off a scene he took part in destroying tell you?
On December 03 2013 03:15 BisuDagger wrote:Is anyone here convinced that we actually need Savior to sustain BW? Disregard Kespa and Blizzard, do people really care that much to see Savior play again? I'd rather watch fun zerg players like Larva any day over Savior. Besides, why support a zerg that couldn't do what  Shine could?
Exactly. What benefits do Savior bring to a reviving BW scene? Absolutely nothing. He only carries a bad image and he can only hurt the scene.
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I'd rather have Savior play than have Blizzard show their faces again. I'm still seething with rage when I recall those 'Not the end, new beginning" ads from the last OSL.
And it's not like Savior is likely to play in anything in Korea, so there'd be little point to rope Blizzard in anyhow ~_~.
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Xiphos wrote:
So many things wrong with this post.
1. If sAviOr didn't have skill necessary to compete, he wouldn't have won the 2 vs 2 tournament, fallacious logic one.
2. Beside sAviOr weren't invited to lose games just for the hell of it. Its not like the organization invited him to lose games but to compete honorably which again he did so with result.
3. Second quotation is just attacking the poster while reiterating first point, completely useless. Seriousness fuck Kespa and Blizzard for what they did. BW died because of THEM. If SC2 weren't pushed at all in Korea with pressure, BW progaming would still have persisted.
4. scnTV is doing good for the BW scene. "Good is good if it is good for me." I don't care whether or not Kespa did great things for BW in the past. Why don't you try living in the present, Kespa is gone from BW forever (unless otherwise). Fuck other E-sports, I ONLY care about BW. And that's pretty much what Kespa is doing right now, they are bored so they decide to use some of that time to eliminate other competition from SC2. By getting rid of scnTV, you are essentially shrinking the BW scene. I'm flabbergasted that any BW fan would even begin to stupidly think that's beneficial for the scene.
Intellectual dwarfism is so sad. This is like shooting fish in a barrel.
Lesson #1: Learn to read please, my mentally challenged friend. I didn't say that he couldn't beat Chinese-level players in 2-v-2. I wrote that he can't beat the 2nd-rate ex-Pros on Afreeca, who are still better than most Chinese-level players. Savior had his eyebrows shaved by the likes of Britney and Terror for fuck's sake because he lost to those dishwashers.
Remedial class: Review Lesson #1. No one said that he was invited to lose games.
Lesson #2: Like it or not, what you did in the past matters. Savior competing "honorably" and not match-fixing (oh what low standards we have!) today does not change the fact that his past actions carry with him an unshakable stigma. Normal parents would not be happy to send their kids to a class taught by a convicted child molester no matter how rehabilitated and "honorable" that teacher is being today.
Lesson #3: More than one person can be at fault. I dislike KeSPA and Blizzard as much as the next person, but this is just classic misdirection. KeSPA and Blizzard being very baaaad doesn't somehow magically wipe away the stink of the massive diarrhea that Savior excreted on BW's face.
Lesson #4: Stupidity makes people paranoid. What's with this conspiracy about KeSPA being afraid of BW and trying to eliminate competition? The most popular BW channels usually don't get much more than 2000~4000 viewers during peak hours. KeSPA could give two shits about BW threatening SC2, despite SC2 being an unpopular game. KeSPA is raking in the LoL dough and would even be happy to drop SC2 completely if it didn't mean sustaining the PR hit of kicking a bunch of pro players to the curb.
I agree with the sentiment "fuck other e-Sports." Guess what? I only care about BW as well. I care enough to put up a couple hundred bucks of my own money for show matches. KeSPA/Blizzard being evil, SC2 being a terrible game, these are all true facts, but they are also red herring irrelevant to the case at hand.
Remedial class: Review lesson #1. No one is pushing for the elimination of scnTV. Blizzard doesn't even charge that much for broadcasting rights. What people want is for a convicted match-fixer to be banned from tainting the integrity of scnTV with his presence. Creating this sort of false dichotomy is very bad form. I am cheering for scnTV to succeed...just without Savior.
User was warned for this post
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Baa?21245 Posts
On December 03 2013 03:15 BisuDagger wrote:Is anyone here convinced that we actually need Savior to sustain BW? Disregard Kespa and Blizzard, do people really care that much to see Savior play again? I'd rather watch fun zerg players like Larva any day over Savior. Besides, why support a zerg that couldn't do what Shine could?
It's a Chinese tournament for Chinese viewers, and I promise you no one in China cares about Shine or Larva, or has even heard of them in comparison , whereas Savior will draw the crowds.
Hell, just look at TL, any Savior topic brings out the crowds lol.
So yes, like it or not, people are interested in Savior play, much more than pretty much any SSL player.
I mean if you want to bring up anecdotal evidence of "I'd rather watch X," I might as well come out and say I'd rather watch Savior play than pretty much any of the SSL people right now.
On December 03 2013 04:04 sns3rsam wrote:
Exactly. What benefits do Savior bring to a reviving BW scene? Absolutely nothing. He only carries a bad image and he can only hurt the scene.
Viewers. There is no scene without viewers.
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On December 03 2013 04:04 sns3rsam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 03:15 BisuDagger wrote:Is anyone here convinced that we actually need Savior to sustain BW? Disregard Kespa and Blizzard, do people really care that much to see Savior play again? I'd rather watch fun zerg players like Larva any day over Savior. Besides, why support a zerg that couldn't do what Shine could? Exactly. What benefits do Savior bring to a reviving BW scene? Absolutely nothing. He only carries a bad image and he can only hurt the scene.
You're absolutely right, but Savior does bring a very vocal minority of crazy+stupid fans...if you can call that a benefit. Larva would absolutely kick Savior's ass at this point. Zero played Bisu to a stalemate in a series of matches today. If people really cared about quality BW, they would rally behind the awesome Zergs we do have left like hero, Zero, and killer, rather than some has-been with a tainted past.
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On December 03 2013 04:18 lemmata wrote:
Lesson #1: Learn to read please, my mentally challenged friend.
Genuinely curious here; does the BW-section of TL.net operate on a different set of rules where expressing yourself like this is fine?
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what does "couldn't do what Shine could" mean?
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Baa?21245 Posts
On December 03 2013 04:27 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
what does "couldn't do what Shine could" mean?
Beat Bisu 
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On December 03 2013 03:30 Lordanubis wrote:
A lot of people need to move on from the Savior situation still. At the end of the day it's really none of the fans business whether he plays in tournaments (or even the game at all) anymore.
I really don't get this part of your post (while I do agree that this is none of Kespa's/Blizzard's business).
It's completely the fan's business whether he plays. They're the ones watching. They're the ones that sponsors are appealing to. If nobody watched because Savior was playing, it would mean that the tournament itself would've been doomed.
As it appears, many people watched because of Savior. Do I think he should be forgiven? No. Would I personally watch a game of his? No. But if he's getting people to watch Brood War, you can't argue that he's at least an effective marketing tool for a tournament.
And just a quick aside: I doubt that he'll ever play in a tournament in Korea again, because most of the Koreans won't forgive him for his transgressions (although Afreeca trends appear to say otherwise, so maybe I'm talking out of my ass!). However, if he can find a way to play in China or what not and those people want to support him, then good for him. I'll continue ignoring those games (but then again, I watch very little BW nowadays...).
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On December 03 2013 04:27 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 04:27 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
what does "couldn't do what Shine could" mean? Beat Bisu
he did knock Bisu out of the OSL Or MSL one though Iirc.
after Bisu had won 3 titles haha.
Obv referring to the famous "when he has won 3 titles he can challenge me" quote lol
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Baa?21245 Posts
On December 03 2013 04:31 hasuprotoss wrote:
And just a quick aside: I doubt that he'll ever play in a tournament in Korea again, because most of the Koreans won't forgive him for his transgressions (although Afreeca trends appear to say otherwise, so maybe I'm talking out of my ass!). .
He probably won't be able to play in a tournament because even if some tournament organizer with the means to host a tournament and invite him, a lot of other players will most likely decline to participate if Savior is involved, which would make the tournament a bit farcical.
also hai hasu :3
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I hope Blizzard doesn't get involved. They have no stake in this and no right to interfere beyond their legal rights. This kind of issue is self-regulating.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On December 03 2013 03:33 DwD wrote:
So is there any VOD's of the games anywhere? I'd love to watch some Savior action
http://sc.scntv.com/vod/yzsc/
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On December 03 2013 04:26 RaZorwire wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 04:18 lemmata wrote:
Lesson #1: Learn to read please, my mentally challenged friend. Genuinely curious here; does the BW-section of TL.net operate on a different set of rules where expressing yourself like this is fine?
Apparently not! I've been taught a lesson myself! How ironic. I can make fun of myself, right?
On December 03 2013 04:18 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Viewers. There is no scene without viewers.
On Afreeca, Savior's audience is dying compared to the other BW channels. As for the Chinese audience, to say that Savior is the one who made them show up is based on faulty reasoning. We don't know how many people would have shown up if Savior was not there. Given that Chinese people are awesome and love BW, I would guess that attendance levels would have been just fine without the presence of the match-fixer.
In general, I've found that Chinese fans care more about skill level than anything else when it comes to sports. Even when Yao Ming was an all-star, he moved less product in China than Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan. They are far more sophisticated than people give them credit for because of the language barrier. I think that most Chinese fans would have been happier to get top class players instead of Savior. Of course, this part of my post is pure conjecture, but I am just pointing out that attributing high attendance to Savior's presence is not a sound logical argument.
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Kespa no longer has any stakes in BW, so they can go fuck themselves.
Even if they did, Chinese scene is separate and they can do their own shit.
Why is the Savior scandal still a thing? Live and let live, the fucker's paid his dues by now.
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Lets tone this down a notch and actually wait for Blizzard to respond before we continue this needlessly ardent discussion.
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EPT
