• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:26
CEST 10:26
KST 17:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202538Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up3LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments3[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10EWC 2025 - Replay Pack4Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced55
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up How to leave Master league - bug fix? Serral wins EWC 2025 The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Interview with Chris "ChanmanV" Chan
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) TaeJa vs Creator Bo7 SC Evo Showmatch FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars
Brood War
General
How do the new Battle.net ranks translate? Nobody gona talk about this year crazy qualifiers? [BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 1
Strategy
[G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread 9/11 Anniversary Possible Al Qaeda Attack on 9/11 Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
The Link Between Fitness and…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 643 users

Zero vs Mind (Best of 7) Announcement - Page 3

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
Stratos
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic6104 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-30 10:30:06
December 30 2013 10:27 GMT
#41
On December 30 2013 18:39 fencer wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Anyone else thought the first game was really weird (where Zero spawned at 1 o'clock)?

Zero went 3 hatch muta and completely destroyed Mind's first push with his mutaling, and then didn't counterattack at all with his 9 mutas (I counted them) that he had left? Like, he didn't even check if Mind had turrets up. He just let Mind macro in peace for 5 minutes and lost. Did he really need them for defense right then when he had just wiped more than two control groups of M&M with very little losses?

D-ranked analysis ftw >> + Show Spoiler +
By that time the muta threat was getting weaker every second as bio was getting stim/range/upgrades. His mutas were also somewhat low on hp throm the "complete destruction" of Mind's forces, so using them just to take advantage of the ridges to protect his 3rd was a good choice imo - if he flew in Mind's base, T would deal with it switfly and could take the opportunity to take out his 3rd. More importantly, ZerO was droning well so he didn't need to do damage.

He opted for a stronger mid game army at the cost of a delayed hive tech as Killer liked to do a lot back in the days but I'm not sure about the use of the army. He ambushed the Terran push right on the ridge without any proper surround, it went okayish but it only delayed the push for a little while, enough tanks survived and bio reinforcements are always there, so that's where things went wrong imo.

With this style you need to destroy the push and take control of the map before the next push forms and defilers are out. Or not go for defiler tech right after and follow up with more lurkers.
En Taro Violet
fencer
Profile Joined October 2011
122 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-30 11:35:59
December 30 2013 11:30 GMT
#42
On December 30 2013 19:27 Stratos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2013 18:39 fencer wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Anyone else thought the first game was really weird (where Zero spawned at 1 o'clock)?

Zero went 3 hatch muta and completely destroyed Mind's first push with his mutaling, and then didn't counterattack at all with his 9 mutas (I counted them) that he had left? Like, he didn't even check if Mind had turrets up. He just let Mind macro in peace for 5 minutes and lost. Did he really need them for defense right then when he had just wiped more than two control groups of M&M with very little losses?

D-ranked analysis ftw >> + Show Spoiler +
By that time the muta threat was getting weaker every second as bio was getting stim/range/upgrades. His mutas were also somewhat low on hp throm the "complete destruction" of Mind's forces, so using them just to take advantage of the ridges to protect his 3rd was a good choice imo - if he flew in Mind's base, T would deal with it switfly and could take the opportunity to take out his 3rd. More importantly, ZerO was droning well so he didn't need to do damage.

He opted for a stronger mid game army at the cost of a delayed hive tech as Killer liked to do a lot back in the days but I'm not sure about the use of the army. He ambushed the Terran push right on the ridge without any proper surround, it went okayish but it only delayed the push for a little while, enough tanks survived and bio reinforcements are always there, so that's where things went wrong imo.

With this style you need to destroy the push and take control of the map before the next push forms and defilers are out. Or not go for defiler tech right after and follow up with more lurkers.


My post did come with a lot of question marks didn't it? No need for the attitude.

I guess his 3rd was a bit in jeopardy if he'd moved in to harass, but it seemed to me like the first engagement went pretty much as well as it possibly could have for Z and the T's standing army at that point was about a control group of M&M. Not taking any real advantage of it by using that 1 minute window to defend the 3rd by other means while moving in to harass with 9 mutas just seemed weird to me. What's the point of going 3 hatch muta if you're just going to use them to defend no matter how badly you crush the first push? But I could be wrong.
Disc Golf is Awesome! Thought I'd throw that out there =)
Stratos
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic6104 Posts
December 30 2013 11:56 GMT
#43
Isn't the whole idea behind 3hatch muta stalling the terran's push before defiler comes out? 2hatch muta is agressive. 3hatch can be agressive if there's a hole to abuse but more often than not you don't actually see it do much direct damage. And the "D-ranked analysis" was just a warning for what's coming from me, I'm the D-ranked hero lol ^^
En Taro Violet
fencer
Profile Joined October 2011
122 Posts
December 30 2013 12:25 GMT
#44
Yeah maybe, I'm just worried that high level BW will take cues from other strategy games and have players turtle for 15+ minutes before anything happens.

+ Show Spoiler +
The last high level HotS match I watched was a ZvP where literally no unit died until 200/200. The first "engagement" was just the Z saccing all of his lings to make room for better units. When the real battle took place at the P's natural the Z got destroyed badly and lost his entire army, but since he had 5k minerals piled up he remaxed instantly and a-moved into victory. I don't want that for BW.
Disc Golf is Awesome! Thought I'd throw that out there =)
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-30 13:24:47
December 30 2013 13:23 GMT
#45
On December 30 2013 20:30 fencer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2013 19:27 Stratos wrote:
On December 30 2013 18:39 fencer wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Anyone else thought the first game was really weird (where Zero spawned at 1 o'clock)?

Zero went 3 hatch muta and completely destroyed Mind's first push with his mutaling, and then didn't counterattack at all with his 9 mutas (I counted them) that he had left? Like, he didn't even check if Mind had turrets up. He just let Mind macro in peace for 5 minutes and lost. Did he really need them for defense right then when he had just wiped more than two control groups of M&M with very little losses?

D-ranked analysis ftw >> + Show Spoiler +
By that time the muta threat was getting weaker every second as bio was getting stim/range/upgrades. His mutas were also somewhat low on hp throm the "complete destruction" of Mind's forces, so using them just to take advantage of the ridges to protect his 3rd was a good choice imo - if he flew in Mind's base, T would deal with it switfly and could take the opportunity to take out his 3rd. More importantly, ZerO was droning well so he didn't need to do damage.

He opted for a stronger mid game army at the cost of a delayed hive tech as Killer liked to do a lot back in the days but I'm not sure about the use of the army. He ambushed the Terran push right on the ridge without any proper surround, it went okayish but it only delayed the push for a little while, enough tanks survived and bio reinforcements are always there, so that's where things went wrong imo.

With this style you need to destroy the push and take control of the map before the next push forms and defilers are out. Or not go for defiler tech right after and follow up with more lurkers.


My post did come with a lot of question marks didn't it? No need for the attitude.

I guess his 3rd was a bit in jeopardy if he'd moved in to harass, but it seemed to me like the first engagement went pretty much as well as it possibly could have for Z and the T's standing army at that point was about a control group of M&M. Not taking any real advantage of it by using that 1 minute window to defend the 3rd by other means while moving in to harass with 9 mutas just seemed weird to me. What's the point of going 3 hatch muta if you're just going to use them to defend no matter how badly you crush the first push? But I could be wrong.



What attitude?
Edit: oh was that the d level remark?

At that point of the game, there was nothing the mutas could do to hurt Terran. When u opt for three hatch muta, the intention of the muta is never to kill the Terran, it is to use the presence of the muta to delay the Terran. After the engagement, the mutas were already at lower HP, even nine marines would have killed them easily with turret support. If zero risked moving in with the mutas and lost them, he would lose map control completely and be extremely vulnerable to drops in either his main or third.

The attack u are referring to was not exactly how it seemed. Mind gave away that group of mm on purpose in order to buy time to set up defense in his base and get upgrades.
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
December 30 2013 15:57 GMT
#46
I wonder if Mind feels better about himself now.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
L3gendary
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1470 Posts
December 30 2013 21:51 GMT
#47
Thanks for organizing this OP! Watching the vods on afreeca is pretty amazing, the picture is perfect.
Watching Jaedong play purifies my eyes. -Coach Ju Hoon
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 34m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech71
-ZergGirl 57
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 2397
ggaemo 1314
actioN 536
Nal_rA 214
Barracks 207
Leta 186
Aegong 157
Killer 131
EffOrt 74
Pusan 71
[ Show more ]
Noble 63
Backho 53
Sharp 34
Dota 2
XaKoH 587
BananaSlamJamma248
XcaliburYe187
Fuzer 170
ODPixel119
League of Legends
JimRising 609
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1242
Stewie2K1217
shoxiejesuss617
Other Games
summit1g8127
ceh9784
WinterStarcraft537
Pyrionflax145
NeuroSwarm84
SortOf79
JuggernautJason44
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1198
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH232
• davetesta32
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
2h 34m
OSC
15h 34m
Stormgate Nexus
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
HCC Europe
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.