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On December 30 2013 18:39 fencer wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Anyone else thought the first game was really weird (where Zero spawned at 1 o'clock)?
Zero went 3 hatch muta and completely destroyed Mind's first push with his mutaling, and then didn't counterattack at all with his 9 mutas (I counted them) that he had left? Like, he didn't even check if Mind had turrets up. He just let Mind macro in peace for 5 minutes and lost. Did he really need them for defense right then when he had just wiped more than two control groups of M&M with very little losses?
D-ranked analysis ftw >> + Show Spoiler +By that time the muta threat was getting weaker every second as bio was getting stim/range/upgrades. His mutas were also somewhat low on hp throm the "complete destruction" of Mind's forces, so using them just to take advantage of the ridges to protect his 3rd was a good choice imo - if he flew in Mind's base, T would deal with it switfly and could take the opportunity to take out his 3rd. More importantly, ZerO was droning well so he didn't need to do damage.
He opted for a stronger mid game army at the cost of a delayed hive tech as Killer liked to do a lot back in the days but I'm not sure about the use of the army. He ambushed the Terran push right on the ridge without any proper surround, it went okayish but it only delayed the push for a little while, enough tanks survived and bio reinforcements are always there, so that's where things went wrong imo.
With this style you need to destroy the push and take control of the map before the next push forms and defilers are out. Or not go for defiler tech right after and follow up with more lurkers.
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On December 30 2013 19:27 Stratos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2013 18:39 fencer wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Anyone else thought the first game was really weird (where Zero spawned at 1 o'clock)?
Zero went 3 hatch muta and completely destroyed Mind's first push with his mutaling, and then didn't counterattack at all with his 9 mutas (I counted them) that he had left? Like, he didn't even check if Mind had turrets up. He just let Mind macro in peace for 5 minutes and lost. Did he really need them for defense right then when he had just wiped more than two control groups of M&M with very little losses? D-ranked analysis ftw >> + Show Spoiler +By that time the muta threat was getting weaker every second as bio was getting stim/range/upgrades. His mutas were also somewhat low on hp throm the "complete destruction" of Mind's forces, so using them just to take advantage of the ridges to protect his 3rd was a good choice imo - if he flew in Mind's base, T would deal with it switfly and could take the opportunity to take out his 3rd. More importantly, ZerO was droning well so he didn't need to do damage.
He opted for a stronger mid game army at the cost of a delayed hive tech as Killer liked to do a lot back in the days but I'm not sure about the use of the army. He ambushed the Terran push right on the ridge without any proper surround, it went okayish but it only delayed the push for a little while, enough tanks survived and bio reinforcements are always there, so that's where things went wrong imo.
With this style you need to destroy the push and take control of the map before the next push forms and defilers are out. Or not go for defiler tech right after and follow up with more lurkers.
My post did come with a lot of question marks didn't it? No need for the attitude.
I guess his 3rd was a bit in jeopardy if he'd moved in to harass, but it seemed to me like the first engagement went pretty much as well as it possibly could have for Z and the T's standing army at that point was about a control group of M&M. Not taking any real advantage of it by using that 1 minute window to defend the 3rd by other means while moving in to harass with 9 mutas just seemed weird to me. What's the point of going 3 hatch muta if you're just going to use them to defend no matter how badly you crush the first push? But I could be wrong.
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Isn't the whole idea behind 3hatch muta stalling the terran's push before defiler comes out? 2hatch muta is agressive. 3hatch can be agressive if there's a hole to abuse but more often than not you don't actually see it do much direct damage. And the "D-ranked analysis" was just a warning for what's coming from me, I'm the D-ranked hero lol ^^
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Yeah maybe, I'm just worried that high level BW will take cues from other strategy games and have players turtle for 15+ minutes before anything happens.
+ Show Spoiler +The last high level HotS match I watched was a ZvP where literally no unit died until 200/200. The first "engagement" was just the Z saccing all of his lings to make room for better units. When the real battle took place at the P's natural the Z got destroyed badly and lost his entire army, but since he had 5k minerals piled up he remaxed instantly and a-moved into victory. I don't want that for BW.
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On December 30 2013 20:30 fencer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2013 19:27 Stratos wrote:On December 30 2013 18:39 fencer wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Anyone else thought the first game was really weird (where Zero spawned at 1 o'clock)?
Zero went 3 hatch muta and completely destroyed Mind's first push with his mutaling, and then didn't counterattack at all with his 9 mutas (I counted them) that he had left? Like, he didn't even check if Mind had turrets up. He just let Mind macro in peace for 5 minutes and lost. Did he really need them for defense right then when he had just wiped more than two control groups of M&M with very little losses? D-ranked analysis ftw >> + Show Spoiler +By that time the muta threat was getting weaker every second as bio was getting stim/range/upgrades. His mutas were also somewhat low on hp throm the "complete destruction" of Mind's forces, so using them just to take advantage of the ridges to protect his 3rd was a good choice imo - if he flew in Mind's base, T would deal with it switfly and could take the opportunity to take out his 3rd. More importantly, ZerO was droning well so he didn't need to do damage.
He opted for a stronger mid game army at the cost of a delayed hive tech as Killer liked to do a lot back in the days but I'm not sure about the use of the army. He ambushed the Terran push right on the ridge without any proper surround, it went okayish but it only delayed the push for a little while, enough tanks survived and bio reinforcements are always there, so that's where things went wrong imo.
With this style you need to destroy the push and take control of the map before the next push forms and defilers are out. Or not go for defiler tech right after and follow up with more lurkers. My post did come with a lot of question marks didn't it? No need for the attitude. I guess his 3rd was a bit in jeopardy if he'd moved in to harass, but it seemed to me like the first engagement went pretty much as well as it possibly could have for Z and the T's standing army at that point was about a control group of M&M. Not taking any real advantage of it by using that 1 minute window to defend the 3rd by other means while moving in to harass with 9 mutas just seemed weird to me. What's the point of going 3 hatch muta if you're just going to use them to defend no matter how badly you crush the first push? But I could be wrong.
What attitude?
Edit: oh was that the d level remark?
At that point of the game, there was nothing the mutas could do to hurt Terran. When u opt for three hatch muta, the intention of the muta is never to kill the Terran, it is to use the presence of the muta to delay the Terran. After the engagement, the mutas were already at lower HP, even nine marines would have killed them easily with turret support. If zero risked moving in with the mutas and lost them, he would lose map control completely and be extremely vulnerable to drops in either his main or third.
The attack u are referring to was not exactly how it seemed. Mind gave away that group of mm on purpose in order to buy time to set up defense in his base and get upgrades.
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I wonder if Mind feels better about himself now.
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Thanks for organizing this OP! Watching the vods on afreeca is pretty amazing, the picture is perfect.
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EPT
