EPTBW General Discussion - Page 494
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vicent121
1 Post
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goody153
44248 Posts
Like tbh i've never seen another player being feared every single season without getting a championship at all. Even freaking royale won a championship lmao | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8841 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5353 Posts
 Shine took him out. Snow is amazing but predictable. He is more solid than Mini, but he can't impromptu like Mini can. Because of that he is weak in a best of. He's very reliant on getting a comp. of units (preferably goon/reaver) and force trades in his favor, over and over. That's when he's comfortable and can do his macro well too. But as soon as he gets opposed with a bigger force, or surprised and can't dictate the pace of the game, he falters. Champions like  Flash, JD,  Jangbi didn't have this problem. They can win when they're already behind. Snow typically snowballs, in either direction. That said he has a good chance vs his next opponent and possibly win this ASL, unless... + Show Spoiler [ASL spoiler] +Larva has something to say. Larva would take care of Snow like he did with Min. Soma would be less scary for Snow imo | ||
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TMNT
3131 Posts
Now when his PvT has gone up to unprecedented level and he's gotten his PvZ together, it's a combination of bad luck and someone even better that has prevented him from winning. If it wasn't for Soulkey, Snow would likely win 2 of the last 3 seasons (the opponents in finals would have been Best, Sharp and Hero). Winners like Royal and JYJ lucked out with bracket (no P). Even Light in his winning season got a relatively favorable run too (Action, Bisu, Rain). | ||
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goody153
44248 Posts
On September 18 2025 18:05 Peeano wrote: The season he was supposed to win Shine took him out. Snow is amazing but predictable. He is more solid than Mini, but he can't impromptu like Mini can. Because of that he is weak in a best of. He's very reliant on getting a comp. of units (preferably goon/reaver) and force trades in his favor, over and over. That's when he's comfortable and can do his macro well too. But as soon as he gets opposed with a bigger force, or surprised and can't dictact the pace of the game, he falters. Champions like Flash, JD, Jangbi didn't have this problem. They can win when they're already behind. Snow typically snowballs, in either direction. That said he has a good chance vs his next opponent and possibly win this ASL, unless... + Show Spoiler [ASL spoiler] +Larva has something to say. Larva would take care of Snow like he did with Min. Soma would be less scary for Snow imoSo he's alot less good at adjusting and all that I assume. On September 18 2025 21:45 TMNT wrote: Ironically he wasn't this good when he reached the finals twice in earlier seasons (beating Flash himself in one of those). Now when his PvT has gone up to unprecedented level and he's gotten his PvZ together, it's a combination of bad luck and someone even better that has prevented him from winning. If it wasn't for Soulkey, Snow would likely win 2 of the last 3 seasons (the opponents in finals would have been Best, Sharp and Hero). Winners like Royal and JYJ lucked out with bracket (no P). Even Light in his winning season got a relatively favorable run too (Action, Bisu, Rain). Yeah I dont really remember him being insanely good back then as well. I think the same that Soulkey being the best tourney player for the past year and more kinda screwed him over despite being in the best form i've seen him | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On September 18 2025 18:05 Peeano wrote: The season he was supposed to win Shine took him out. Snow is amazing but predictable. He is more solid than Mini, but he can't impromptu like Mini can. Because of that he is weak in a best of. He's very reliant on getting a comp. of units (preferably goon/reaver) and force trades in his favor, over and over. That's when he's comfortable and can do his macro well too. But as soon as he gets opposed with a bigger force, or surprised and can't dictate the pace of the game, he falters. Champions like Flash, JD, Jangbi didn't have this problem. They can win when they're already behind. Snow typically snowballs, in either direction. That said he has a good chance vs his next opponent and possibly win this ASL, unless... + Show Spoiler [ASL spoiler] +Larva has something to say. Larva would take care of Snow like he did with Min. Soma would be less scary for Snow imoI've seen Snow turn many unfavorable PvTs around, including against beasts like Flash. I think the only matchup where he has serious trouble making comebacks is in PvZ. But that's completely understandable. Part of the reason why the general PvZ winrate is negative is because protoss in the middle game has relatively few high impact tools to make a comeback with. PvT has the reaver, TvZ has marines, TvP has spider mines, ZvT has lurkers, ZvP has mutas and lurkers. PvZ? Perhaps dark templars? But that generally requires corsairs, which are often small in numbers when protoss is fighting from behind. I think Snow has exactly the right idea. Protoss wins PvZ by creating a tactical advantage in the middle game that breaks zerg or leads to a strategically winning advantage. Comebacks rarely work. I think protoss players should focus more on crushing PvT if they want to win more tournaments. | ||
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NeedlerNoobRTS
7 Posts
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Jealous
10308 Posts
On September 19 2025 17:32 NeedlerNoobRTS wrote: I don't really get why sc2 can get community patches and brood war can't. I'm literally so tired of seeing the same maps and stratrgies every single asl. We need to make terran bio more viable in tvt and tvp. Protoss should be able to go robo units in most match ups too. I really hope we can get one next season. It's a GOOD thing to have balance patches Would you say that it is a stale meta, then? | ||
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TMNT
3131 Posts
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Shinokuki
United States923 Posts
On September 18 2025 18:05 Peeano wrote: The season he was supposed to win Shine took him out. Snow is amazing but predictable. He is more solid than Mini, but he can't impromptu like Mini can. Because of that he is weak in a best of. He's very reliant on getting a comp. of units (preferably goon/reaver) and force trades in his favor, over and over. That's when he's comfortable and can do his macro well too. But as soon as he gets opposed with a bigger force, or surprised and can't dictate the pace of the game, he falters. Champions like Flash, JD, Jangbi didn't have this problem. They can win when they're already behind. Snow typically snowballs, in either direction. That said he has a good chance vs his next opponent and possibly win this ASL, unless... + Show Spoiler [ASL spoiler] +Larva has something to say. Larva would take care of Snow like he did with Min. Soma would be less scary for Snow imoThis is so wrong. Soma is snow's biggest mismatch. Go take a look at their head to head matchup stats. Soma used to call snow his slave lmao | ||
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Shinokuki
United States923 Posts
On September 18 2025 23:43 Magic Powers wrote: I've seen Snow turn many unfavorable PvTs around, including against beasts like Flash. I think the only matchup where he has serious trouble making comebacks is in PvZ. But that's completely understandable. Part of the reason why the general PvZ winrate is negative is because protoss in the middle game has relatively few high impact tools to make a comeback with. PvT has the reaver, TvZ has marines, TvP has spider mines, ZvT has lurkers, ZvP has mutas and lurkers. PvZ? Perhaps dark templars? But that generally requires corsairs, which are often small in numbers when protoss is fighting from behind. I think Snow has exactly the right idea. Protoss wins PvZ by creating a tactical advantage in the middle game that breaks zerg or leads to a strategically winning advantage. Comebacks rarely work. I think protoss players should focus more on crushing PvT if they want to win more tournaments. I like how you mention ZvT having lurkers as if it's something thats magical that allows z to comeback. ZvT has even more negative win rate than pvz. Idk how this pvz being imba took place? maybe because there are lot of foreigner toss? <= This is also really odd because BSL is dominated by protoss as well. | ||
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Jealous
10308 Posts
On September 19 2025 20:53 TMNT wrote: lmao Snow was on course to smash Hero in a CJ vs STX showmatch today, before getting doom dropped and realizing he didn't have storm (in fact for some reason he upgraded the HT energy instead). Bisu's not alone now. Upgrading HT energy means your HT have storm earlier after popping out, but probably a misclick/hotkey. | ||
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goody153
44248 Posts
On September 19 2025 17:32 NeedlerNoobRTS wrote: I don't really get why sc2 can get community patches and brood war can't. I'm literally so tired of seeing the same maps and stratrgies every single asl. We need to make terran bio more viable in tvt and tvp. Protoss should be able to go robo units in most match ups too. I really hope we can get one next season. It's a GOOD thing to have balance patches And was it working well for sc2 that they have patches all the time ? Sc2 legitimately exciting around HoTs era and after awhile too much concern about ""nerfing the op" that the game ended up kinda boring spectator wise and alot of exciting openings are just dead now Honestly sc2 is kinda boring now and that's impressive feat to do when it looked just as exciting as broodwar or more back then. That's what infinite balancing and macro focused maps did to the game Broodwar's map design balancing is far better. If the tournament meta shakeup is needed they can just introduce like island maps and that like Although tbf I dont think you could do sc2 with the same map approach balancing as bw just cause the control is simplified so breaching highground and stuff is far easier as well as there not alot of highground advantage tbh. Like defenders advantage alot less viable than in bw Current sc2 communit patches isnt exactly the greatest thing looking at the changes they have made so far and how it impacted the game. I'd rather BW dont get one at all I dont even get the nerf approach sc2 took instead of just buffing everything like other games do who are actually far more succesful at balancing where if the principle was "if everything is op nothing is" instead of blunting unit potentials and all that | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5353 Posts
On September 19 2025 23:29 Shinokuki wrote: This is so wrong. Soma is snow's biggest mismatch. Go take a look at their head to head matchup stats. Soma used to call snow his slave lmao Offline is a different beast. Perfect example of that just showed + Show Spoiler + with Larva taking out Light | ||
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TMNT
3131 Posts
On September 19 2025 23:31 Shinokuki wrote: I like how you mention ZvT having lurkers as if it's something thats magical that allows z to comeback. ZvT has even more negative win rate than pvz. Idk how this pvz being imba took place? maybe because there are lot of foreigner toss? <= This is also really odd because BSL is dominated by protoss as well. The tool, if we're talking about units, that allows Zerg to comeback is Defiler. But that's for another conversation. I thought the T>Z>P>T has generally been accepted for ages, why are you acting like ZvP imba is something newly invented by foreigners? | ||
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Shinokuki
United States923 Posts
On September 20 2025 02:24 TMNT wrote: The tool, if we're talking about units, that allows Zerg to comeback is Defiler. But that's for another conversation. I thought the T>Z>P>T has generally been accepted for ages, why are you acting like ZvP imba is something newly invented by foreigners? In foreign scene, due to soulkey dominating, people think zvt is somehow fine while talking about how zvp is broken. ZvP isn't even broken. It's become more balanced throughout the years. | ||
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TMNT
3131 Posts
On September 20 2025 03:39 Shinokuki wrote: In foreign scene, due to soulkey dominating, people think zvt is somehow fine while talking about how zvp is broken. ZvP isn't even broken. It's become more balanced throughout the years. I don't think ZvT is fine, but people have said the same thing about ZvP since Kespa, not just since Soulkey. So your point is invalid. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11076 Posts
On September 18 2025 11:09 goody153 wrote: I just learned that Snow has not won a single ASL championship like wtf. How is a player so ungodly good and probably the best player at one matchup like almost no doubt have not won a championship before Like tbh i've never seen another player being feared every single season without getting a championship at all. Even freaking royale won a championship lmao Dude can’t get enough PvTs in his run. | ||
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Stopthevirtualaddict
49 Posts
On September 18 2025 23:43 Magic Powers wrote: I've seen Snow turn many unfavorable PvTs around, including against beasts like Flash. I think the only matchup where he has serious trouble making comebacks is in PvZ. But that's completely understandable. Part of the reason why the general PvZ winrate is negative is because protoss in the middle game has relatively few high impact tools to make a comeback with. PvT has the reaver, TvZ has marines, TvP has spider mines, ZvT has lurkers, ZvP has mutas and lurkers. PvZ? Perhaps dark templars? But that generally requires corsairs, which are often small in numbers when protoss is fighting from behind. I think Snow has exactly the right idea. Protoss wins PvZ by creating a tactical advantage in the middle game that breaks zerg or leads to a strategically winning advantage. Comebacks rarely work. I think protoss players should focus more on crushing PvT if they want to win more tournaments. Just watch games of best in ASL, literally… Random DTs walking or dropping, Hidden Bases Dark archons snipping muta flock Pressureing Zerg . Doesnt Bonyth always strom drop those foreign zerg and let them overextent, because for some reason they always have the need to attack and attack. Snipping those juice lurker lines without over comiting. Just having and macroing, that giant protoss army and wandering around makes it hard for zerg to adjust defence and move its own armies. Let zerg move really, where lurkers lose their power trying to burrow. Keep zerg getting supply blocked, doesnt this happen at ever level constantly??? Just keep up those upgrades, normally zerg struggles with those. Because protoss army doesnt die. Until defiller. I mean isnt that the problem more often than not, zerg at on side keeping that front inforced, and being safe at all those expos, dts dropps or zealots drop and run bys Otherwise struggling with the rate of protoss just oumuscling the zerg. Because of the upgrade Protoss army and massive amount of storms. I | ||
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