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On January 20 2022 14:39 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2022 09:39 Essbee wrote:
Look at what Gypsy had to say about balance changes in general (and these in particular) and you have your answer right there. - emp vs recall, I'm generally ok with emp vs statis but Arbiters being able to recall after emp hits (if Protoss already hit recall) is just bullshit imo. If Terran hits the EMP the recall doesn't go off, simple as that.
How is this bullshit? You both have an arrow. The other guy is shooting a bird. You are shooting him. Your arrow hits him after his arrow is released. Your arrow should kill him but his arrow should still kill the bird.
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playing terran and not erecting a supply depot perimeter at the outer area of your base, laying mines here and there, letting the protoss recall his units inside but you emp the recalled units and proceed to watch thousands of resources worth of units disappear in seconds with minimal damage done to your base
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On January 20 2022 14:58 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2022 14:39 Dante08 wrote:On January 20 2022 09:39 Essbee wrote:
Look at what Gypsy had to say about balance changes in general (and these in particular) and you have your answer right there. Where can one find this? Regarding Artosis's proposed changes here are some I can agree with: - assimilator health and vision reduction. This would make Terran deal with gas steals better, no reason why the assimilator should have more health than a refinery and extractor when it builds itself. Also the huge vision means Terrans can't hide their second rax easily. Doesn't affect ZvP or PvP. - probe vision decrease, doesn't really affect anything but no reason to have it either. - emp vs recall, I'm generally ok with emp vs statis but Arbiters being able to recall after emp hits (if Protoss already hit recall) is just bullshit imo. If Terran hits the EMP the recall doesn't go off, simple as that. Arbiters can’t recall after the EMP hits. There’s a delay between the casting of recall and the actual recall. This is the same for EMP. A vessel can EMP your energy away after it has been hit by an EMP (assuming it cast it before it was hit). Arbiter works the same way. Hitting an EMP after a spellcaster has already cast their spell and expecting it to uncast it is absurd. If you want the arbiter to have too little energy to recall you need to EMP it before it does the recall. After is no good.
Why is it absurd? I know how the spell works but it shouldn't work this way in this context, if an EMP hits the Arbiter the recall should not be able to go through like 2 seconds later. I'm sure you've seen multiple games where this has happened.
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On January 20 2022 18:38 TMNT wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2022 14:39 Dante08 wrote:On January 20 2022 09:39 Essbee wrote:
Look at what Gypsy had to say about balance changes in general (and these in particular) and you have your answer right there. - emp vs recall, I'm generally ok with emp vs statis but Arbiters being able to recall after emp hits (if Protoss already hit recall) is just bullshit imo. If Terran hits the EMP the recall doesn't go off, simple as that. How is this bullshit? You both have an arrow. The other guy is shooting a bird. You are shooting him. Your arrow hits him after his arrow is released. Your arrow should kill him but his arrow should still kill the bird.
Pointless to use such an analogy for Starcraft. If you hit an EMP on an Arbiter you should be able to stop a recall, not have an Arbiter still get the recall off 2 seconds later.
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United States43677 Posts
On January 20 2022 23:48 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2022 18:38 TMNT wrote:On January 20 2022 14:39 Dante08 wrote:On January 20 2022 09:39 Essbee wrote:
Look at what Gypsy had to say about balance changes in general (and these in particular) and you have your answer right there. - emp vs recall, I'm generally ok with emp vs statis but Arbiters being able to recall after emp hits (if Protoss already hit recall) is just bullshit imo. If Terran hits the EMP the recall doesn't go off, simple as that. How is this bullshit? You both have an arrow. The other guy is shooting a bird. You are shooting him. Your arrow hits him after his arrow is released. Your arrow should kill him but his arrow should still kill the bird. Pointless to use such an analogy for Starcraft. If you hit an EMP on an Arbiter you should be able to stop a recall, not have an Arbiter still get the recall off 2 seconds later.
The recall was already done when the EMP hit.
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What I'm saying is if I were to change something, it would be to change the mechanics of EMP. For example if the Arbiter gets hit by lockdown the recall would not go off. So the change would along those lines.
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On January 20 2022 23:48 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2022 18:38 TMNT wrote:On January 20 2022 14:39 Dante08 wrote:On January 20 2022 09:39 Essbee wrote:
Look at what Gypsy had to say about balance changes in general (and these in particular) and you have your answer right there. - emp vs recall, I'm generally ok with emp vs statis but Arbiters being able to recall after emp hits (if Protoss already hit recall) is just bullshit imo. If Terran hits the EMP the recall doesn't go off, simple as that. How is this bullshit? You both have an arrow. The other guy is shooting a bird. You are shooting him. Your arrow hits him after his arrow is released. Your arrow should kill him but his arrow should still kill the bird. Pointless to use such an analogy for Starcraft. If you hit an EMP on an Arbiter you should be able to stop a recall, not have an Arbiter still get the recall off 2 seconds later.
Lol I love how you just wrote off the argument as pointless by just restating your initial argument.
On January 20 2022 23:55 Dante08 wrote:
What I'm saying is if I were to change something, it would be to change the mechanics of EMP. For example if the Arbiter gets hit by lockdown the recall would not go off. So the change would along those lines.
They literally casted the spell before you did. The energy is already spent. You were too slow, too late. Get over it.
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They literally casted the spell before you did.
*They literally casted the spell before your projectile hit. Projectile based spell vs spell that isn't projectile based means you could easily cast it first but hit after their cast due to travel time.
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On January 21 2022 02:31 kaboombaby wrote:*They literally casted the spell before your projectile hit. Projectile based spell vs spell that isn't projectile based means you could easily cast it first but hit after their cast due to travel time.
Tomato tomato.
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It needs some tweaks here and there (like a transparent fog of war for example..) but a patch? I don't think so.. the risks are just too big.. the balance is often thin as a wafer and depends on a specific map.
just imo
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An EMP stopping arbiter recall after protoss already cast the spell is akin to preventing a car crash by hitting the brakes right after the car flies off a cliff.
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United States43677 Posts
Although there is precedent with spawn broodlings. The way that spell works is dumb though. I’d fix that patch, spawn broodlings should hit even if the queen dies while the projectile is traveling.
That’s my patch.
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Come back from Bisu?
Posted today at his afreeca page + Show Spoiler +https://bj.afreecatv.com/rlaxordyd/post/82794186
"Hello, I'm Taek-Yong Kim.
Coin investment with the wrong idea
After the coin incident, I did not feel the seriousness
I'm really sorry for lying
Even now, I am very ashamed and ashamed of myself as a disciple.
I would like to express my condolences this Sunday at 9pm.
I'm really sorry"
(translated with google translate).
Original text + Show Spoiler +안녕하세요 김택용입니다
잘못된생각으로 코인투자한것
코인사건이터지고나서 심각성을느끼지못하고
거짓말을해서 정말죄송합니다
지금도 제자신이 굉장히 부끄럽고 창피하네요
이번주 일요일저녁9시에 죄송한마음 전해드리고싶습니다
정말 너무 죄송합니다
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On January 21 2022 04:28 KwarK wrote:
Although there is precedent with spawn broodlings. The way that spell works is dumb though. I’d fix that patch, spawn broodlings should hit even if the queen dies while the projectile is traveling.
That’s my patch.
Well and I think mechanical units shouldn't be able to turn into broodlings in the first place :p
Although I guess you can argue that the units are manned and it's the occupants that get turned, rendering the vehicles driverless.
I think BW isn't meant to be realistic, and balance arguments shouldn't be about realism. It should be about the mechanic working as intended, being functional, and not breaking the game (and what constitutes "gamebreaking" should never be decided by anyone's opinion).
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On January 21 2022 00:03 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2022 23:48 Dante08 wrote:On January 20 2022 18:38 TMNT wrote:On January 20 2022 14:39 Dante08 wrote:On January 20 2022 09:39 Essbee wrote:
Look at what Gypsy had to say about balance changes in general (and these in particular) and you have your answer right there. - emp vs recall, I'm generally ok with emp vs statis but Arbiters being able to recall after emp hits (if Protoss already hit recall) is just bullshit imo. If Terran hits the EMP the recall doesn't go off, simple as that. How is this bullshit? You both have an arrow. The other guy is shooting a bird. You are shooting him. Your arrow hits him after his arrow is released. Your arrow should kill him but his arrow should still kill the bird. Pointless to use such an analogy for Starcraft. If you hit an EMP on an Arbiter you should be able to stop a recall, not have an Arbiter still get the recall off 2 seconds later. Lol I love how you just wrote off the argument as pointless by just restating your initial argument. Show nested quote +On January 20 2022 23:55 Dante08 wrote:
What I'm saying is if I were to change something, it would be to change the mechanics of EMP. For example if the Arbiter gets hit by lockdown the recall would not go off. So the change would along those lines. They literally casted the spell before you did. The energy is already spent. You were too slow, too late. Get over it.
Yeah makes sense, maybe let's change it so that once the Arbiter casts recall it still goes off even if the Arbiter dies. Or if it gets hit by lockdown or stasis (not that it will ever happen). Since it's already casted it should go off?
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On January 21 2022 10:49 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2022 00:03 Jealous wrote:On January 20 2022 23:48 Dante08 wrote:On January 20 2022 18:38 TMNT wrote:On January 20 2022 14:39 Dante08 wrote:On January 20 2022 09:39 Essbee wrote:
Look at what Gypsy had to say about balance changes in general (and these in particular) and you have your answer right there. - emp vs recall, I'm generally ok with emp vs statis but Arbiters being able to recall after emp hits (if Protoss already hit recall) is just bullshit imo. If Terran hits the EMP the recall doesn't go off, simple as that. How is this bullshit? You both have an arrow. The other guy is shooting a bird. You are shooting him. Your arrow hits him after his arrow is released. Your arrow should kill him but his arrow should still kill the bird. Pointless to use such an analogy for Starcraft. If you hit an EMP on an Arbiter you should be able to stop a recall, not have an Arbiter still get the recall off 2 seconds later. Lol I love how you just wrote off the argument as pointless by just restating your initial argument. On January 20 2022 23:55 Dante08 wrote:
What I'm saying is if I were to change something, it would be to change the mechanics of EMP. For example if the Arbiter gets hit by lockdown the recall would not go off. So the change would along those lines. They literally casted the spell before you did. The energy is already spent. You were too slow, too late. Get over it. Yeah makes sense, maybe let's change it so that once the Arbiter casts recall it still goes off even if the Arbiter dies. Or if it gets hit by lockdown or stasis (not that it will ever happen). Since it's already casted it should go off?
Except removing the energy of an Arbiter and destroying/disabling an Arbiter are not at all analogous? How are you so confidently just skipping over this fact?
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On January 21 2022 11:04 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2022 10:49 Dante08 wrote:On January 21 2022 00:03 Jealous wrote:On January 20 2022 23:48 Dante08 wrote:On January 20 2022 18:38 TMNT wrote:On January 20 2022 14:39 Dante08 wrote:On January 20 2022 09:39 Essbee wrote:
Look at what Gypsy had to say about balance changes in general (and these in particular) and you have your answer right there. - emp vs recall, I'm generally ok with emp vs statis but Arbiters being able to recall after emp hits (if Protoss already hit recall) is just bullshit imo. If Terran hits the EMP the recall doesn't go off, simple as that. How is this bullshit? You both have an arrow. The other guy is shooting a bird. You are shooting him. Your arrow hits him after his arrow is released. Your arrow should kill him but his arrow should still kill the bird. Pointless to use such an analogy for Starcraft. If you hit an EMP on an Arbiter you should be able to stop a recall, not have an Arbiter still get the recall off 2 seconds later. Lol I love how you just wrote off the argument as pointless by just restating your initial argument. On January 20 2022 23:55 Dante08 wrote:
What I'm saying is if I were to change something, it would be to change the mechanics of EMP. For example if the Arbiter gets hit by lockdown the recall would not go off. So the change would along those lines. They literally casted the spell before you did. The energy is already spent. You were too slow, too late. Get over it. Yeah makes sense, maybe let's change it so that once the Arbiter casts recall it still goes off even if the Arbiter dies. Or if it gets hit by lockdown or stasis (not that it will ever happen). Since it's already casted it should go off? Except removing the energy of an Arbiter and destroying/disabling an Arbiter are not at all analogous? How are you so confidently just skipping over this fact?
Yeah that's what I'm saying, since it's a video game if I were to patch it it would be to tweak the mechanics of EMP so that it stops recall if it hits.
I don't think it's that hard to understand?
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or you know....just be faster than the protoss player?
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On January 21 2022 12:31 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2022 11:04 Jealous wrote:On January 21 2022 10:49 Dante08 wrote:On January 21 2022 00:03 Jealous wrote:On January 20 2022 23:48 Dante08 wrote:On January 20 2022 18:38 TMNT wrote:On January 20 2022 14:39 Dante08 wrote:On January 20 2022 09:39 Essbee wrote:
Look at what Gypsy had to say about balance changes in general (and these in particular) and you have your answer right there. - emp vs recall, I'm generally ok with emp vs statis but Arbiters being able to recall after emp hits (if Protoss already hit recall) is just bullshit imo. If Terran hits the EMP the recall doesn't go off, simple as that. How is this bullshit? You both have an arrow. The other guy is shooting a bird. You are shooting him. Your arrow hits him after his arrow is released. Your arrow should kill him but his arrow should still kill the bird. Pointless to use such an analogy for Starcraft. If you hit an EMP on an Arbiter you should be able to stop a recall, not have an Arbiter still get the recall off 2 seconds later. Lol I love how you just wrote off the argument as pointless by just restating your initial argument. On January 20 2022 23:55 Dante08 wrote:
What I'm saying is if I were to change something, it would be to change the mechanics of EMP. For example if the Arbiter gets hit by lockdown the recall would not go off. So the change would along those lines. They literally casted the spell before you did. The energy is already spent. You were too slow, too late. Get over it. Yeah makes sense, maybe let's change it so that once the Arbiter casts recall it still goes off even if the Arbiter dies. Or if it gets hit by lockdown or stasis (not that it will ever happen). Since it's already casted it should go off? Except removing the energy of an Arbiter and destroying/disabling an Arbiter are not at all analogous? How are you so confidently just skipping over this fact? Yeah that's what I'm saying, since it's a video game if I were to patch it it would be to tweak the mechanics of EMP so that it stops recall if it hits. I don't think it's that hard to understand?
No, the entire time you've framed this as that it's "bullshit" and you "should be able to stop it" as if this is some universal truth, and not some head canon patch you're plotting. You're entitled to your opinion, just as much as others are entitled to the opinion that your opinion is stupid.
Terran is already the most successful race in the game. Just because it irks you personally as a lower level player doesn't mean that it's something that needs fixing. This has been proven time and again by progamers. Again, as I said above: get over it.
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if i was forced to make changes to bw (which i wouldn't)
then i would make it so that the arbiter's recall startup had a visible animation on the arbiter (think like how science vessels blink). i think this would reduce the amount of feelbad moments for terrans without affecting much otherwise
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EPT
