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ketomai
United States2789 Posts
On August 31 2013 12:43 TT1 wrote: 1. Bisu 2. Stork 3. Nal_rA 4. JangBi 5. Reach 6. GARIMTO 7. Kingdom 8. Best 9. Anytime 10. Grrrr... I agree with this list. A shame JangBi's peak was during and cut off by the end of Brood War. | ||
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shaftofpleasure
Korea (North)1375 Posts
On August 30 2013 23:07 Biff The Understudy wrote: How would you put BeSt on top of Ra, I don't understand... Fanboyism, mate. It burns inside of me. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On September 02 2013 00:11 shaftofpleasure wrote: Fanboyism, mate. It burns inside of me. BeSt ahead of Jangbi too who has 2 OSL gold to 1 OSL silver(given PL performance also counts) lol. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On August 30 2013 16:34 rift wrote: You make it out like his slump was somehow exceptional. Ra sucked just before his retirement, reach went a couple years where he couldnt win a 1v1 game whatsoever, before he came back in Daum to do half way decent, and then disappear again. Anytime was inconsistent as all hell and jumped back and forth. As to PL, it had no where near equal significance in the mid period of broodwar as it did in the latter half, so fixating on the contributions of some of the older protoss in PL isnt really meeting the point.His massive slump hurts. The two OSL wins make people forget about how horrible he was for so long: Pae-wang, "King of Losing" along with BeSt. Stork and Bisu are naturally above him as the two most-skilled Protoss in the game's history. Nal_rA was definitely more important strategically and the best Protoss before Taekbangleessang. Reach, while less accomplished shone in an era when Protoss was quite weak, thus the nickname "Hero Toss". I say: 1. Bisu 2. Stork 3. Nal_rA 4. Reach 5. JangBi 6. Kingdom 7. Anytime 8. Grrrr 9. GARIMTO These are the hall-of-famers IIRC. There are others that I'm neglecting, of course; the rest of the Dragons, older-school Protoss like IntoTheRain/Rainbow/etc. from ygosu, all-time protoss proleague ranking 1 - 김택용/Bisu 192-85 69.3% 2 - 송병구/Stork 191-119 61.6% 3 - 윤용태/Free 147-120 55.1% 4 - 김구현/Kal 145-129 52.9% 5 - 도재욱/Best 120-87 58% 6 - 허영무/Jangbi 109-105 50.9% 7 - 오영종/Anytime 100-103 49.3% (oldschoolers are lower due to fewer games) and osl+msl records from ygosu (adding on my own) Stork 115-94 Bisu 111-75 Nal_rA 92-60 Reach 87-79 Jangbi 70-46 Kal 62-57 Kingdom 48-50 free 42-39 Best 28-24 Grrr 27-18 (no msl then) Garimto 27-21 (no msl then) Anytime 25-24 Movie 22-21 didn't realize how much Kal was underappreciated.. ----- Jangbi was the only protoss ever to win back to back OSL's, he was the only protoss after the early period of starcraft to win two osl's all together, and he made numerous other finals. I dont know if he had any strong influence on the metagame-- clearly bisu, ra, garimto and grr surpass him rather substantially there, but by results the only comparable Protoss is Bisu, and he only did well in the inferior league. | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
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brolaf
291 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On September 02 2013 02:50 rauk wrote: it's worth noting that jangbi also won during a period of transition between sc2 and bw; a lot of the teams were supposed to have focused on sc2 hardcore during that time since it counted more than bw did for hybrid proleague (bw games in PL during this period looked like random foreigner games lol). i'd make the argument that he won during a period where bw was at its least competitive, compared to earlier eras can't speak for all players in the OSLs he won but at least, in ZerO's case, he said that his team didn't allow him to play PL and wanted him to focus solely on OSL so ya, I figure other teams gave that kind of treatment to players who made it far enough in OSL so you can't use the argument that he won because everyone else was practicing SCII while practiced only BW. On top of that, Jangbi said in an interview that he was playing BW for fun and practicing SCII on the side so there goes that argument  | ||
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saltywet
Hong Kong1316 Posts
On September 02 2013 02:50 rauk wrote: it's worth noting that jangbi also won during a period of transition between sc2 and bw; a lot of the teams were supposed to have focused on sc2 hardcore during that time since it counted more than bw did for hybrid proleague (bw games in PL during this period looked like random foreigner games lol). i'd make the argument that he won during a period where bw was at its least competitive, compared to earlier eras + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=players&id=63&part=games&vs=all&league=standard&map=any&from_year=2012&from_month=3&from_day=15&to_year=2012&to_month=8&to_day=27&action=Update http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/leagues/2806_tving_OSL it's also worth nothing that Jangbi was also doing fucking well in sc2 in proleague DURING his tving OSL run - going 6-2 (75%) between 5/15 and 8/25 (tving OSL), so don't fucking say that he focused on BW. | ||
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shaftofpleasure
Korea (North)1375 Posts
On September 02 2013 00:38 BigFan wrote: BeSt ahead of Jangbi too who has 2 OSL gold to 1 OSL silver(given PL performance also counts) lol. It's fanboyism damn it!~~~!~! | ||
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riyanme
Philippines940 Posts
1. bisu (revolutionist tbls era) 2. nalra (revolutionist pre-tbls era) 3. stork (in the name of consistency) 4. reach (old school aura and star power) 5. jangbi (obviously why) for those who placed/voted nalra 3rd and below... obviously you weren't during those years when he was a revolutionist... most likely you guys started tuning to bw more like 2008 and above... no fanboyism... just plain facts... | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On September 02 2013 02:54 brolaf wrote: IMO no one comes close to Bisu because of his insane proleague dominance. The guy was a machine, even more than flash, in the later proleagues ProLeague has had a multitude of format changes, which makes various performances over the years next to impossible to compare. Bisu has had two seasons worth of exceptional performances on a team that had arguably the most accommodating teams in the professional scene in terms of roster flexibility. Of course, the seasons he had incredible success also happened to have the most number of games, so statistically speaking Bisu did indeed have by far the most impressive ProLeague performances. However, if we were to fully consider the various circumstances, the difference may not be so massive as you imagine to be. To be quite frank, Bisu was as inconsistent in the ProLeague if we look at the entirety of his career, as he was in the individual leagues in my opinion. Comparing numbers only works if we take into account the circumstances involved, for example counting the number of wins for individual leagues is flawed because some leagues include 32 players, whereas the corresponding stages for previous leagues were considered as minor leagues, and it was harder to qualify for consequetive leagues circa 2004~2005 for the MBC leagues if I remember right, due the denial of re-entry for players who dropped out too early. Just like the above example, you can't just look at the figures and proclaim that Bisu is by far and away the greatest when the circumstances just aren't equal. In terms of team trophies, Kingdom is more than his match, and in terms MVP awards and other individual accomplishments in the ProLeague, there are other comparable cases such as Stork and Nal rA. If you argue that it was more difficult to compete in an era that had more number games, and invalidate the other memorable performances under different circumstances, I could argue that it is arguably harder for someone to carry an under-financed team from rock bottom, all the way to victory (Anytime comes to mind) rather than being an integral part of a well oiled team that quite frankly achieved much higher heights with Kingdom. | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
1. Bisu 2. Stork 3. Nal_rA 4. JangBi 5. Reach 6. GARIMTO 7. Anytime 8. Kingdom 9. BeSt 10. Kal Honorable Mention: free | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Bisu though...I will never forget the epic games he had with the other TLBS, particularly some of his games vs Flash. | ||
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kidcrash
United States620 Posts
On September 02 2013 11:16 wherebugsgo wrote: I think at his peak Jangbi was much better than Stork. Stork was more consistent for a longer time, though at the end I think he spent way too much time playing cellphone games. Bisu though...I will never forget the epic games he had with the other TLBS, particularly some of his games vs Flash. I agree with this, it's kind of like comparing Magnus Carlsen and Garry Kasparov. Kasparov had a very lengthy career at the top. Carlsen, however, had greater strength for a shorter period of time. | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
On September 02 2013 10:02 saltywet wrote: + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=players&id=63&part=games&vs=all&league=standard&map=any&from_year=2012&from_month=3&from_day=15&to_year=2012&to_month=8&to_day=27&action=Update http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/leagues/2806_tving_OSL it's also worth nothing that Jangbi was also doing fucking well in sc2 in proleague DURING his tving OSL run - going 6-2 (75%) between 5/15 and 8/25 (tving OSL), so don't fucking say that he focused on BW. sure, but it just means that it wasn't a competitive environment across the board and maybe the results shouldn't be taken as seriously if no one was focusing on bw | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On September 02 2013 11:35 rauk wrote: sure, but it just means that it wasn't a competitive environment across the board and maybe the results shouldn't be taken as seriously if no one was focusing on bw cmon, what do you have against Jangbi? lol. We saw some amazing games(at least ones I saw) and he dominated his opponents. Some games like that game 4 with ZerO were so close but he fought back and crushed ZerO. You think that Fantasy, Zero etc... were going to ignore the possibility of winning the final BW OSL just to practice some SCII? That would be nuts imo! From what I saw, I would say minimum RO8, everyone realized that this is the final BW OSL and was giving 110% to try and win it. Who doesn't want to be called the final BW OSL champion? I know if I was in their shoes, I would say screw practicing SCII and that its time to win OSL lol | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
i still rooted for jangbi to beat fantasux because fuck skt and i enjoyed the finals, but seriously, it wasn't nearly as competitive an OSL as it was even just a year ago | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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