On February 11 2015 12:33 outscar wrote: And only one guy from this team apologized for this and also emphasized that he hates Savior because he forced him (and probable everyone) for this deal.
Q: Do you hate Ma Jae Hoon (Savior) who originally gave you the suggestion?
A: Initially I really did hate him, but more so I was fearful of him. But afterwards I felt really angry with myself. After realizing what a terrible thing I've done, I thought that I could only blame myself and not anyone else.
It is clear that Savior is the founder of this match fixing thing and the rest are the followers of this masquerade. He is the reason of downfall of pro scene. Korean think that he is the main destroyer of KeSPA BW, not SC2 like mostly think.
Thats the work of the dirty slithery zerg and the people who get tempted, not a signle one of the noble protoss bretherens was involved in this. Next time you want to say protoss scum think about that. Seriously, race preference can tell alot about the personallity of a man, i can say that for the people which i know.
On February 11 2015 12:33 outscar wrote: And only one guy from this team apologized for this and also emphasized that he hates Savior because he forced him (and probable everyone) for this deal.
Q: Do you hate Ma Jae Hoon (Savior) who originally gave you the suggestion?
A: Initially I really did hate him, but more so I was fearful of him. But afterwards I felt really angry with myself. After realizing what a terrible thing I've done, I thought that I could only blame myself and not anyone else.
It is clear that Savior is the founder of this match fixing thing and the rest are the followers of this masquerade. He is the reason of downfall of pro scene. Korean think that he is the main destroyer of KeSPA BW, not SC2 like mostly think.
My questions is, how can Savior be so powerful that he can force them? He's not the coach.
On February 11 2015 23:20 Caihead wrote: Shame on you Hwasin for using IE and reinforcing the idea that Korean BW players weren't actually tech savvy at all.
Seriously though I don't want to see people's lives destroyed from one mistake, some of the people involved were just kids and should be able to work their way through society again.
Actually, internet explorer is used by most people in South Korea. I have no idea why but it's popular.
ActiveX is required for a lot/all online banking/shopping/other stuff in South Korea, I think it was put in place for the sake of consistency and thus in theory better security, which is actually horribly ironic because of the fact that using IE instead of a better browser is actually a security threat. Google it, there's plenty of additional information about why, the history of it all. I think in the last few years they actually reviewed that bit of policy and decided to renew it. >_<
Personally I feel that a lot of people make up mostly BS excuses ("still mentally just a kid") to completely let sAviOr or HwaSin back in (because they were the more popular and well known, skilled players involved). I wanted to forgive HwaSin, basically had, but wouldn't let him back in for reasons suggested by lemmata and KasPra and leaving betting links open to plain view is a very bad start.
Sure, part of the crowd is new and didn't experience the scandal. That makes a new crowd who could learn to feel the anguish of another's selfish actions that ruin something for a community. It also provides a group that might become fans of him and then be disappointed if he does it (or they might defend him from the older fans who will have been wronged twice). I don't *expect* he would do it again, but he certainly cannot be trusted not to. Some people said things about not ruining his life because of one mistake blah blah rubbish etc., which wouldn't be so bad except that at least one of you sounded (to me at least) like you were suggesting that we'd be ruining HIS life just by stopping him from playing the game he helped severely damage for so many others. WE won't have ruined his life. His whole life won't be ruined just because he did that either, he just might not be able to compete in BW. That's not ruining his entire life (and even if it were, 'twas his doing). Wish him well elsewhere, sure, but don't expect him to be let back in. SSL and anything OGN linked won't let him in, I highly doubt and hope Lovetv won't let him in, the smaller ones might.
On February 12 2015 01:27 Hesmyrr wrote: Isn't the problem Hwasin was "walking his way toward the society" already? I think he has a job which has to be far more stable income than being BJ, and it was major reason besides apology why he had such positive PR - the fact that he chose to explore alternative method of life rather than dwelling on Afreeca with utter lack of shame. I'd believe Hwasin is actually risking his life being "destroyed" by getting himself involved in BW rather than vice versa.
How so? If he's already got a job elsewhere without his employers banning him for his BW behaviour (they likely no nothing about it or else don't care enough or have forgiven him), he wouldn't be losing that by coming back. He might have left his job but he might just get it back or get another. He might still have it. He doesn't really have much to lose as far as the BW community is concerned. It is much more of a risk for the community than for him.
On February 11 2015 12:33 outscar wrote: And only one guy from this team apologized for this and also emphasized that he hates Savior because he forced him (and probable everyone) for this deal.
:O how could savior force them?
Q: Do you hate Ma Jae Hoon (Savior) who originally gave you the suggestion?
A: Initially I really did hate him, but more so I was fearful of him. But afterwards I felt really angry with myself. After realizing what a terrible thing I've done, I thought that I could only blame myself and not anyone else.
It is clear that Savior is the founder of this match fixing thing and the rest are the followers of this masquerade. He is the reason of downfall of pro scene. Korean think that he is the main destroyer of KeSPA BW, not SC2 like mostly think.
My questions is, how can Savior be so powerful that he can force them? He's not the coach.
Maybe he is persuasive and a good liar (they said that he denied everything until the evidences made him GG).
On February 11 2015 20:20 KasPra wrote: My opinion is probably unpopular and obviously rather irrelevant, but I hope that there are at least some people who feel the same way. I feel like none of the ex-pros involved in the scandal should ever be forgiven and allowed back into the BW scene. There are some mistakes in life that you can only make once and I think betraying the entire community for some monetary gain should be one of them.
I know nostalgia plays a large part in people's judgement; I used to adore Hwasin's play as well and he was my favourite terran for a good while, but after utter scumbaggery like the betting scandal anything less than a lifetime ban wouldn't be appropriate. There's a lot of other things he could do, lots of other games to play and so on, just not BW because apologies shouldn't save him after spitting on the game and his fans.
Yea....like Murder or Rape...
I don't think this is one of those things man. He did his time. Time to move on. If people are never given a second chance nothing ever changes.
On February 11 2015 12:33 outscar wrote: And only one guy from this team apologized for this and also emphasized that he hates Savior because he forced him (and probable everyone) for this deal.
:O how could savior force them?
Q: Do you hate Ma Jae Hoon (Savior) who originally gave you the suggestion?
A: Initially I really did hate him, but more so I was fearful of him. But afterwards I felt really angry with myself. After realizing what a terrible thing I've done, I thought that I could only blame myself and not anyone else.
It is clear that Savior is the founder of this match fixing thing and the rest are the followers of this masquerade. He is the reason of downfall of pro scene. Korean think that he is the main destroyer of KeSPA BW, not SC2 like mostly think.
My questions is, how can Savior be so powerful that he can force them? He's not the coach.
I guess he's pretty much the Lance Armstrong of BW.
People continue to amaze me by 1) drawing the clearly false equivalence between forgiveness and permitting re-entry into the BW scene; 2) ignoring the impact that the participation of convicted criminals would have on the business side of BW; and 3) showing a carefree attitude toward the probability of criminal recidivism.
Whenever a convicted criminal has appeared on television in Korea in a non-news context, great uproar, criticism, and controversy have always followed. You can kiss any future OGN broadcasts goodbye if any of the matchfixers are allowed back into the fold. This isn't about punishing the matchfixers. It's about protecting the present and future of BW on television. This isn't about matchfixers doing it again either. It's about the impact that having such people involved would have on the public perception (and hence advertising dollars) of professional BW.
Get a grip ffs, people. A few people may not care about such things, but millions of people do care. Unless you are going to spend millions of dollars personally financing the existence of televised BW for the next decade, the fact that you do not personally care about matchfixers being involved does not matter.
Everyone makes mistakes, everyone. The thing is that most of us are too insignificant for anyone but a handful of people to give a shit. He didn't intentionally hurt anyone. So good job to him for turning this into a growing experience by trying to move on while admitting his wrongdoings, there's absolutely no shame in that no matter what the haters say.
It is absolutely foolish to not let any of the "match fixers" back in to the loop, even savior, people make mistakes and BW is such an amazing game, these people are amazing at the game as well.
In my opinion it is obvious they should be given a second chance and let back into the scene, it is only going to benefit the scene in the long run for people to be more forgiving.
On February 12 2015 09:01 GGzerG wrote: It is absolutely foolish to not let any of the "match fixers" back in to the loop, even savior, people make mistakes and BW is such an amazing game, these people are amazing at the game as well.
In my opinion it is obvious they should be given a second chance and let back into the scene, it is only going to benefit the scene in the long run for people to be more forgiving.
I'm surprised someone with an MBC flair would be pushing to allow these players back.
On February 12 2015 03:46 Fuchsteufelswild wrote: BS excuses ("still mentally just a kid")
that is not BS excuse. or are you telling me juvenile criminal law (which can be extended to young adults) is BS as well? or that you are capable of making only rational adult decisions when you are 15 years old (physically or otherwise)?
On February 12 2015 07:41 lemmata wrote: People continue to amaze me by 1) drawing the clearly false equivalence between forgiveness and permitting re-entry into the BW scene; 2) ignoring the impact that the participation of convicted criminals would have on the business side of BW; and 3) showing a carefree attitude toward the probability of criminal recidivism.
1) what scene? dont forget we still don't really have a pro scene per se, there are no professional teams, no professional organization overseeing this, BW players dont draw fixed salary from playing BW etc.
If you are talking about the amateur scene, savior has already been streaming BW for a very long while (albeit not participating in any korean tourneys) and apart from the usual odd venom I dont see people clamoring to take down his stream whatever. Are you going to diss terror/pusan for playing balloon matches with savior? He also drew flak for participating in the China 2v2 tourney, yet I don't see korean players like Movie stop their participation in china competitions after that, or any majority of people continuing to criticize them even now for doing so.
Any other large korean tourneys or sponsored events would automatically not allow him in, but otherwise savior and gang are free to join in any other foreign or smaller events. With Savior on good behavior this has been going on for a while, and has yet to stop the current revival of BW spearheaded by sonic whatsoever.
2) I doubt simply playing BW primarily as a hobby would any effect on the business side of BW, since the big sponsored tourneys in Korea would have the good sense not to invite them anyway, even if somehow they wish to (and i think people like savior would not want to either). Some people on this forum think they shouldn't even touch BW ever even as a hobby, as if their cardinal sins is directly related to the game itself.
3) i think society continuing to label them as "criminals" even long after rehabilitation, continuing to treat them as such even if they say they have forgiven them, and restricting their freedom and reintegration has more of an impact on their likelihood of recidivism, if anything.
Hwasin is shunned from the society Hwasin's apology is accepted Hwasin is not allowed to participate in BW tournaments Hwasin is not allowed to stream BW
Him not being able to do option 3 does not automatically mean other three things come along in free-for-all bundle.
EPT
