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On February 11 2015 04:43 prplhz wrote:
i don't know what to think, but some people certainly feel like they can pass the harshest judgment on them without a second thought.
i think most people just think that the matchfixing scandal is the cause of the initial downfall of BW
(when a certain corporate entity pushing for a new game is more to blame...), and its easier to make scapegoats out of players. labelling and condemning mentally teens who dont know about consequences as criminals for life.
they act as if BW is sacred and holy (which i also want to believe), but no established sports in history has been free of any form of shady acts/corruptions in it, human greed is bound to get in the way eventually
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Some of you little titties just about in time need to shut the fuck up their dotage mouth because I'm not even reading your inadequate yellings and infantile snivels about this great progamer. I know, those who bet got their punishment so hard by permanently getting banned their sorry butts. And only one guy from this team apologized for this and also emphasized that he hates Savior because he forced him (and probable everyone) for this deal. He was only one who asked for forgiveness and letting him to prove his honesty and fair play. So why the heck you are standing against him? Let him one last chance because he IS THE ONE who deserves it.
User was warned for this post
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Bisutopia19391 Posts
On February 11 2015 10:09 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2015 07:49 BisuDagger wrote:
He apologized and I believe it to be sincere. I forgive him. Would you forgive such a person that tried to (hypothetically) enter the scene again? Like remove his ban or just forgive him in the sense there's no hard feeling, but still being strict on such a ban. It's a very topical thing as of late since we're seeing kids in Dota/CS doing the same dumb shit.
I would accept him back. It has been several years and he's the only one who actually put an effort into being apologetic after all this time.The time has definitely been served and god knows this is a hard thing for a kid to go through. Accepting him back would be a good gesture from everyone.
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On February 11 2015 12:33 outscar wrote:
Some of you little titties just about in time need to shut the fuck up their dotage mouth because I'm not even reading your inadequate yellings and infantile snivels about this great progamer. I know, those who bet got their punishment so hard by permanently getting banned their sorry butts. And only one guy from this team apologized for this and also emphasized that he hates Savior because he forced him (and probable everyone) for this deal. He was only one who asked for forgiveness and letting him to prove his honesty and fair play. So why the heck you are standing against him? Let him one last chance because he IS THE ONE who deserves it.
exactly this.
User was warned for this post
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51622 Posts
On February 11 2015 12:33 outscar wrote:
Some of you little titties just about in time need to shut the fuck up their dotage mouth because I'm not even reading your inadequate yellings and infantile snivels about this great progamer. I know, those who bet got their punishment so hard by permanently getting banned their sorry butts. And only one guy from this team apologized for this and also emphasized that he hates Savior because he forced him (and probable everyone) for this deal. He was only one who asked for forgiveness and letting him to prove his honesty and fair play. So why the heck you are standing against him? Let him one last chance because he IS THE ONE who deserves it.
Eh, like I said I don't really care. A lot of the punishment he got post the scandal was pretty harsh and I felt it was unfair, especially during his time in the military, that said regardless of how and why he got involved in match fixing and how remorseful he is he probably won't be allowed to participate in tournaments.
I can't stop him from streaming BW, nor do I want to either, and I'm certainly not judging those who are watching his stream either.
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I think it's the first time I've actually read his apology. Wow.
Progamers are people too. People make mistakes. Not to mention that a lot of the progamers in the BW days were teenagers. Most people their age aren't expected to make life-changing decisions like that. Considering his situation, I think the mistakes he made are understandable. Best wishes to him and his stream.
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On February 11 2015 12:33 outscar wrote: And only one guy from this team apologized for this and also emphasized that he hates Savior because he forced him (and probable everyone) for this deal.
:O how could savior force them?
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On February 11 2015 15:17 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2015 12:33 outscar wrote: And only one guy from this team apologized for this and also emphasized that he hates Savior because he forced him (and probable everyone) for this deal. :O how could savior force them?
Q: Do you hate Ma Jae Hoon (Savior) who originally gave you the suggestion?
A: Initially I really did hate him, but more so I was fearful of him. But afterwards I felt really angry with myself. After realizing what a terrible thing I've done, I thought that I could only blame myself and not anyone else.
It is clear that Savior is the founder of this match fixing thing and the rest are the followers of this masquerade. He is the reason of downfall of pro scene. Korean think that he is the main destroyer of KeSPA BW, not SC2 like mostly think.
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I just miss sAviOr, I want him back
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51698 Posts
I don't know why people never mention Justin, who pretty much brought down the entire Sparkyz team with him.
Rumor was he came from a upper-class family and was well off. What a jerk.
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France9034 Posts
On February 11 2015 04:18 JieXian wrote:oh well........ Show nested quote +On February 11 2015 03:37 Ragnarork wrote:On February 10 2015 22:55 BLinD-RawR wrote:
I don't care what he does with his stream or who watches it for that matter, I doubt he'd be featured on TL and he probably won't be allowed to participate in any tournament. I'm wondering for how much time do people consider inacceptable that such players return to the game. I mean, the guy was talented. He did a mistake. Now this can be the result of what I'd call a "built-in" greed, but this can also just be the result of a one time mistake that he may severly regret. Banning for life sounds ok in the first case, but not in the second :/ spoke too soon
Rofl, indeed. IIRC betting is completely forbidden in Korea, right?
That's not really intelligent from his part 
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My opinion is probably unpopular and obviously rather irrelevant, but I hope that there are at least some people who feel the same way. I feel like none of the ex-pros involved in the scandal should ever be forgiven and allowed back into the BW scene. There are some mistakes in life that you can only make once and I think betraying the entire community for some monetary gain should be one of them.
I know nostalgia plays a large part in people's judgement; I used to adore Hwasin's play as well and he was my favourite terran for a good while, but after utter scumbaggery like the betting scandal anything less than a lifetime ban wouldn't be appropriate. There's a lot of other things he could do, lots of other games to play and so on, just not BW because apologies shouldn't save him after spitting on the game and his fans.
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On February 11 2015 19:31 Ragnarork wrote:Rofl, indeed. IIRC betting is completely forbidden in Korea, right? That's not really intelligent from his part
Not all betting is illegal in Korea. Government sanctioned betting like lotteries and horse racing betting is allowed, but not for online betting which the govt has no jurisdiction over
On February 11 2015 20:20 KasPra wrote:
My opinion is probably unpopular and obviously rather irrelevant, but I hope that there are at least some people who feel the same way. I feel like none of the ex-pros involved in the scandal should ever be forgiven and allowed back into the BW scene. There are some mistakes in life that you can only make once and I think betraying the entire community for some monetary gain should be one of them.
I know nostalgia plays a large part in people's judgement; I used to adore Hwasin's play as well and he was my favourite terran for a good while, but after utter scumbaggery like the betting scandal anything less than a lifetime ban wouldn't be appropriate. There's a lot of other things he could do, lots of other games to play and so on, just not BW because apologies shouldn't save him after spitting on the game and his fans.
If the offenders in question during that time are say, in their 30s, I would have agreed with you long ago.
But young people should deserve second chances, especially one who publicly express their apologies.
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Shame on you Hwasin for using IE and reinforcing the idea that Korean BW players weren't actually tech savvy at all.
Seriously though I don't want to see people's lives destroyed from one mistake, some of the people involved were just kids and should be able to work their way through society again.
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On February 11 2015 16:22 GTR wrote:
I don't know why people never mention Justin, who pretty much brought down the entire Sparkyz team with him.
Rumor was he came from a upper-class family and was well off. What a jerk.
I think the majority of people don't bring up Justin, because the majority of people who comment on the match fixing scandal simply don't have any idea ^^.
I can forgive Hwasin especially, I can truly believe he is sorry. Whether that translates to being able to play again.. well, I'm not as sure there. But Savior and Justin should stay banned from this game for life, regardless.
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On February 11 2015 16:22 GTR wrote:
I don't know why people never mention Justin, who pretty much brought down the entire Sparkyz team with him.
Rumor was he came from a upper-class family and was well off. What a jerk.
Probably cause no one knew who he was before the scandal.
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First of all, thanks Caihead for keeping up with the BW news and translating this for the community.
Aside from the match-fixing issue, I like to read these because I see all the old BW-time TLers are still alive and keeping in touch <3
I'd like to believe Hwasin is, at least on the abilities to feel remorse and to follow up with apologies, a few tiers of humanity above the scumbags Savior and Justin (+ Luxury but that involves a slightly different topic). Hwasin seems to have some grasp of the magnitude of what his actions may have caused.
If he wishes to return to the BW scene, he should and will be placed under a close watch. He'll have to publicly apologize again and again, and still (and rightfully so) people will be doubtful of his intentions. There will be cruel jokes and personal attacks. However, based on my impression from the current SSL10 and remembering my experiences live at SSL8 finals, the audiences have either 1) moved on and continue to support the BW scene or 2) young & new and are largely unaware of the scandal. There is room for a truly remorseful and reformed ex-pro to return. With the right attitude and perseverance, he can serve as a public reminder of the terrible things that happened and why we must prevent it from happening again.
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On February 11 2015 23:20 Caihead wrote:
Shame on you Hwasin for using IE and reinforcing the idea that Korean BW players weren't actually tech savvy at all.
Seriously though I don't want to see people's lives destroyed from one mistake, some of the people involved were just kids and should be able to work their way through society again.
Isn't the problem Hwasin was "walking his way toward the society" already? I think he has a job which has to be far more stable income than being BJ, and it was major reason besides apology why he had such positive PR - the fact that he chose to explore alternative method of life rather than dwelling on Afreeca with utter lack of shame. I'd believe Hwasin is actually risking his life being "destroyed" by getting himself involved in BW rather than vice versa.
It's shocking why he would choose to reopen old wounds like this, and just for public appearances I'd rather keep him at minimum from broadcasted tournaments like SSL; lack of consistency in the enforcement of BW participation ban, not alone mentioning controversy that would embroil the league, is not worth it.
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On February 11 2015 23:20 Caihead wrote:
Shame on you Hwasin for using IE and reinforcing the idea that Korean BW players weren't actually tech savvy at all.
Seriously though I don't want to see people's lives destroyed from one mistake, some of the people involved were just kids and should be able to work their way through society again.
Actually, internet explorer is used by most people in South Korea. I have no idea why but it's popular.
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Holy shit, it's not like he killed a person.
The kid made a bad mistake. But then, he spent his entire youth playing a computer game. No wonder his judgement was a little off. Beside that, I wouldn't blame anyone for taking an assumed easy way out of a very difficult situation he – and his family! – were in.
The scandal might have destroyed the careers of uninvolved players and crushed the dreams of the fans (poor little puppies!). That a teenager is expelled from society for years and has to live through such intense psychological suffering after fixing merely TWO GAMES seems merciless and cruel to me.
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EPT
