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On June 01 2013 03:44 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 09:37 Birdie wrote:
I suspect with the changing-hotkeys thing, it's the kind of thing that people would dislike when first put in but after a while no one would care because it doesn't make a big enough difference in play to matter, whereas MBS and so on do make a massive difference in play. I aint playing on any server with hotkey changing. Manipulation of broodwar is bullshit. Play the game and get at *the game*, dont modify it to placate your whims. Doing that shit leads to the abomination that is its sequel. Changing hotkeys makes the game easier, which is something we should strive to avoid.
exactly. reassign 890 to ~,tab, caps lock will be ezpz mode and no one would want that, except a child who play protoss
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Lol fuck all this mechanic changes. I might as well play sc2 then. They also have shinier units. 
As for the topic, yes I would play in a new server. Iccup kinda discouraged me playing bw for the past few years 
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On June 01 2013 03:44 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 09:37 Birdie wrote:
I suspect with the changing-hotkeys thing, it's the kind of thing that people would dislike when first put in but after a while no one would care because it doesn't make a big enough difference in play to matter, whereas MBS and so on do make a massive difference in play. I aint playing on any server with hotkey changing. Manipulation of broodwar is bullshit. Play the game and get at *the game*, dont modify it to placate your whims. Doing that shit leads to the abomination that is its sequel. Changing hotkeys makes the game easier, which is something we should strive to avoid.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Please listen to this guy and leave it the same for everyone.
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On May 31 2013 07:26 Birdie wrote:
None of the gameplay modifications are going to happen, with the EXTREMELY slight possibility of the hotkey remapping happening. That's unlikely though.
No. You guys are making a server and are completely out of your league when it comes to game design in any way.
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I'm down with not implementing the features SC2 has such as max unit selection and automining, but honestly why the fuck are people still arguing whether or not custom hotkeys should not be implemented?
- It makes the game MUCH more accessible for SC2 players who don't want to learn a new set of hotkeys.
- It doesn't automatically make you a "pro" as pressing 'M' for marine doesn't make you any better at strategy making than pressing 'A'. It only makes the game more accessible to new players.
- You end up creating a community that is more open to new players and not so much on a community fixed only on hardcore players. And as you know... MORE players = MORE exposure
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On June 01 2013 05:18 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 07:26 Birdie wrote:
None of the gameplay modifications are going to happen, with the EXTREMELY slight possibility of the hotkey remapping happening. That's unlikely though. No. You guys are making a server and are completely out of your league when it comes to game design in any way.
The point is that the game is fine as it is, there's no need to simplify it.
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If someone really wanted to use custom hotkeys, they can already easily just remap their keyboard. Making a custom keyboard layout and switching to it whenever they play StarCraft isn't difficult to do. If you're using Windows, I believe Microsoft even has a keyboard layout creator program. I don't see how adding custom hotkeys (even if it's unnecessary) breaks the game, when it's something you can already do.
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I support it, when would this server become realistic?
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I'm impartial to custom hotkeys, but the server should provide alert on whether he/she is using custom hotkeys so their opponent can decide what to do.
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In the end its better to just stick to the initial idea and not modify BW in any way. Maybe in the future, when everything is settled down, the server is running and everything else is ok, then, maybe and only maybe, we should go back and discuss about hotkey remapping.
As of now, let's just let them build the basics!
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good i think iccup admins very bad so we are need to for new server
i want good cyber culture
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guys just focus on the server first. hotkeys are other crazy features...we can think about later. stay on topic!
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Let them change their hotkeys, then they will not be able to play on fish ^.^
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Australia7069 Posts
On June 01 2013 05:49 Nightsz wrote:
I'm down with not implementing the features SC2 has such as max unit selection and automining, but honestly why the fuck are people still arguing whether or not custom hotkeys should not be implemented?
- It makes the game MUCH more accessible for SC2 players who don't want to learn a new set of hotkeys.
- It doesn't automatically make you a "pro" as pressing 'M' for marine doesn't make you any better at strategy making than pressing 'A'. It only makes the game more accessible to new players.
- You end up creating a community that is more open to new players and not so much on a community fixed only on hardcore players. And as you know... MORE players = MORE exposure
actually it does make you a pro pressing M for marine. there's a clip of flash going SK terran and the commentators show his production, and it's constantly blinking. the idea that he's pressing m once on all 12? barracks every 25 seconds or however long it takes to make a marine while simultaneously controlling his army to kill/avoid lurkers and building up his economy is just insane. if he was hitting one hotkey and pressing a a few times a-la sc2 it wouldn't have been anywhere near as impressive
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On June 01 2013 09:49 Kiante wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 05:49 Nightsz wrote:
I'm down with not implementing the features SC2 has such as max unit selection and automining, but honestly why the fuck are people still arguing whether or not custom hotkeys should not be implemented?
- It makes the game MUCH more accessible for SC2 players who don't want to learn a new set of hotkeys.
- It doesn't automatically make you a "pro" as pressing 'M' for marine doesn't make you any better at strategy making than pressing 'A'. It only makes the game more accessible to new players.
- You end up creating a community that is more open to new players and not so much on a community fixed only on hardcore players. And as you know... MORE players = MORE exposure actually it does make you a pro pressing M for marine. there's a clip of flash going SK terran and the commentators show his production, and it's constantly blinking. the idea that he's pressing m once on all 12? barracks every 25 seconds or however long it takes to make a marine while simultaneously controlling his army to kill/avoid lurkers and building up his economy is just insane. if he was hitting one hotkey and pressing a a few times a-la sc2 it wouldn't have been anywhere near as impressive
That doesn't change anything, players at D+ and higher rank have already adapted to broodwar hotkeys, so even at the highest level, pressing 'a' for each barracks as opposed to pressing 'm' is practically negligible.
Don't you see, this change doesn't even affect BW players. If you are used to it, great! But don't make the hotkey positions a complete bitch for the people who want to try this game out.
We AREN'T dumbing down the game, we're just making the game more ACCESSIBLE
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kiante you're mixing up MBS and using something like AHK to remap hotkeys
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I'm pretty indifferent to hot keys. Fact is, anyone who's a half decent touch typist is not going to have a problem hitting "O" over "V" for Overlords. MBS and auto-mine are game changing mechanics, hot keys are purely preference. If key distance can really be argued as an advantage, playing right or left handed would have a huge difference on your performance. I remember back when Hoejja was up and coming (left handed player for those who don't know) and people used to joke that once he "broke in his right hand" he'd dominate.
But in the end he decided he was happier playing left handed, and it was even mentioned how certain things like assigning control groups was very fluid due to how his right hand was placed on the keyboard. In the end, having different hotkeys have a virtually negligible effect on game play in comparison to things like MBS or auto-mine.
That being said, I understand the aversion to that train of thought. "Well if custom hotkeys could be easier for new players to adapt to, we should just put in auto-mine cause that would, too!" But meh. Like I said, I could take it or leave it. And like others said, doing so is possible outside the game yourself if you really are so inclined, so whatever.
Regardless, as Birdie mentioned, this is completely inconsequential stuff until the actual server gets up and running, so. 
Hope everything is going smoothly for you guys! I will say that the port forwarding thing is so important. Despite countless hours of drudging through help threads, I'm still unable to play games with more than 2 people after something like 7 years. Doesn't stop me from playing 1v1s sometimes, but its still very discouraging, especially when trying to get friends into the game. Wish you guys the best, and good luck.
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Australia7069 Posts
On June 01 2013 10:54 Nightsz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 09:49 Kiante wrote:On June 01 2013 05:49 Nightsz wrote:
I'm down with not implementing the features SC2 has such as max unit selection and automining, but honestly why the fuck are people still arguing whether or not custom hotkeys should not be implemented?
- It makes the game MUCH more accessible for SC2 players who don't want to learn a new set of hotkeys.
- It doesn't automatically make you a "pro" as pressing 'M' for marine doesn't make you any better at strategy making than pressing 'A'. It only makes the game more accessible to new players.
- You end up creating a community that is more open to new players and not so much on a community fixed only on hardcore players. And as you know... MORE players = MORE exposure actually it does make you a pro pressing M for marine. there's a clip of flash going SK terran and the commentators show his production, and it's constantly blinking. the idea that he's pressing m once on all 12? barracks every 25 seconds or however long it takes to make a marine while simultaneously controlling his army to kill/avoid lurkers and building up his economy is just insane. if he was hitting one hotkey and pressing a a few times a-la sc2 it wouldn't have been anywhere near as impressive That doesn't change anything, players at D+ and higher rank have already adapted to broodwar hotkeys, so even at the highest level, pressing 'a' for each barracks as opposed to pressing 'm' is practically negligible. Don't you see, this change doesn't even affect BW players. If you are used to it, great! But don't make the hotkey positions a complete bitch for the people who want to try this game out. We AREN'T dumbing down the game, we're just making the game more ACCESSIBLE
How is it not different? m is way on the right of the keyboard. it requires a whole hand shift to make something as insignificant as a marine. same with probes, protoss hotkeys generally tend to leave you with a very different set of hand movements to the other races. having to press o to siege (something it's vital to do on time) is a skill to learn. if you miss the o (which is more likely because it's a whole hand move instead of just a finger) it can decimate you.
These little things are part of what makes broodwar awesome. the fact that when i play terran, i misclick o all the time and fail, but better terran players wont. It's part of what makes broodwar challenging
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Hotkeys really aren't that big a deal. You get used to it then the problem goes away.
Reaching across the keyboard is like playing 2 notes an octave apart on a piano: not a problem at all.
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Kiante's point is acutally legit. As a terran player, miss-hitting i for mines or o for siege would most likely determine the fate of battle, that split second you are wondering why your tanks didnt siege and found out you were pressing i all along and have to look at the keyboard might cost yout the game
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EPT
