The intent of this release is to provide interested players and tournament hosts with maps that are guaranteed to be debugged and ready to play. There are plans to keep up a semi-regular series of such releases in the future.
Each map comes with a melee and an observer version, of course.
In addition, to maintain the best balance between instant accessability and player comfort, the complete set of maps is provided in two versions, a "normal" and a more "conservative" one. The main difference is that the observer map of the "normal" version has the fog of war removed for the whole map but the mains, to help first-time players to navigate around the map, whereas the "conservative" version comes with just the normal "blacked out" observer versions. Additionally some of the more flashy visuals are toned down a bit for the "conservative" version (see map profiles below for further details on this).
all scouting times measured at fastest game speed with an AI-controled SCV from starting location to starting location right click/view image to see the full image.
2-player map featuring and open middle and rather short rush distance. It also offers lots of expansion choices, but strategically places all expanions along different paths to prevent turtlish gameplay. Notable map features:
map size: 128x96
main choke can be sealed off with a single barrack
multiple choices for 3rd gas
mostly buildable middle gives good proxy opportunities
neutral commandcenter in the centre for Zerg to infest
all scouting times measured at fastest game speed with an AI-controled SCV from starting location to starting location right click/view image to see the full image.
all scouting times measured at fastest game speed with an AI-controled SCV from starting location to starting location right click/view image to see the full image.
Experimental map, featuring a "force field" mechanic: + Show Spoiler +
The areas marked with the pylon fields provide 50% cover (evasion vs. ranged attacks) for ground units on them (same as hill advantage). Before discussions come up: Yes it's really 50%, as has been repeatedly tested by korean and foreign mappers, not 30%, as is often suggested. Players have to take this into consideration, when planning their army composition and positioning. + Show Spoiler +
Proper positioning is key, especially when fighting with ranged units.
They also make great areas for hard-to-clear minefields.
If you are deeper interested in the exact mechanics and howtos of this feature, there's a guide for you, also explaining the vision blocker mechanic seen on (2)Cross Game and (4)Melting Pot.
Notable map features:
map size: 128x128
low ground main into high ground nat setup
the geysers at the 1,11,5&7 expansions only contain 2500g
east and west divided by a long central valley
the "conservative" version does not have pylon fields to indicate the cover-providing areas, only ground textures
all scouting times measured at fastest game speed with an AI-controled SCV from starting location to starting location right click/view image to see the full image.
This map is mostly focussed around narrow bridge chokes. Notable map features:
map size: 128x128
The chokes of the naturals are made up of twin bridges, just like Destination's ones. Player must stay agressive enough to not be contained behind those bridges.
vision blockers and dwebs between the outskirts and the middle.
The BWMN logo in the middle is made up of hallucinated minerals and will disappear automatically soon after game start (before any reasonable scout timings) [the "conservative" version does not contain the emblem]
all scouting times measured at fastest game speed with an AI-controled SCV from starting location to starting location right click/view image to see the full image.
all scouting times measured at fastest game speed with an AI-controled SCV from starting location to starting location right click/view image to see the full image.
wallins are just suggestions, of course, players may want to wall in differently. right click/view image to see the full image.
We are going to run a showcase tourney on these maps soon. But it's turned out kind of hard to get enough people together to mod a tournament, so there's no definite date, yet. I would greatly appreciate, if any one with some experience in organizing and running tournaments could help me to get something going. I am also looking for casters who would be willing to do a commentary.
Finally I'd really like to thank CrystalDrag and ArcTimes for helping me with the in-game footage.
new maps should bring an awesome feeling of fresh air to the community !
And these maps look.. AWESOME :D
Im just really sad that there is no Ice map.... ;(( why dont anyone make these ? (same goes for Space Platform maps with super high ground.. ;() I think we should have at least 1..
but apart from that - amazing !
ps - 3 lava maps but no ice or space platform... ;( im sad..
On October 10 2012 15:13 Sinedd wrote: PS - maybe you should make neo versions of those maps (later on) with ledges behind naturals or smthn where you can storm/tank drop
I like cross path the most, with hazard black and gemlong being potentially really interesting.
Do the force fields work on melee attacks? do they work on units if both the attacker and defender are in the same force field? And do they stack (I think it would be a good idea if they did)?
On October 10 2012 15:13 Sinedd wrote: PS - maybe you should make neo versions of those maps (later on) with ledges behind naturals or smthn where you can storm/tank drop
On October 10 2012 15:34 hacklebeast wrote: I like cross path the most, with hazard black and gemlong being potentially really interesting.
Do the force fields work on melee attacks? do they work on units if both the attacker and defender are in the same force field? And do they stack (I think it would be a good idea if they did)?
I supposse you mean the disrupter webs on Melting Pot. And yes, no units are able to attack while underneath them.
On October 10 2012 15:34 hacklebeast wrote: I like cross path the most, with hazard black and gemlong being potentially really interesting.
Do the force fields work on melee attacks? do they work on units if both the attacker and defender are in the same force field? And do they stack (I think it would be a good idea if they did)?
I supposse you mean the disrupter webs on Melting Pot. And yes, no units are able to attack while underneath them.
I think he is asking about those pylon thingies on DeserTec
On October 10 2012 15:34 hacklebeast wrote: I like cross path the most, with hazard black and gemlong being potentially really interesting.
Do the force fields work on melee attacks? do they work on units if both the attacker and defender are in the same force field? And do they stack (I think it would be a good idea if they did)?
Defensive terrain does not work on melee attacks. It does work for both units if both units are in it. I think the map might be Protoss favoured in PvT, because of Zealots just running up to vultures and tanks. On the other hand, mines will be a pain in the ass for Protoss, and the center IS buildable... Maybe it's Terran favoured. Or maybe it's balanced. :O
I am sorry if there are problems with the pictures not displaying for some of you. Unfortuntately everything works fine fore me, so I cannot figure out the problem on my own right now.
The pictures are not size-optimized for TL format, TL resizes them. If that is a problem I'd need to reupload all the pictures or probably do something with thumbnails... Anyway, it would be quite a lot of work, so I would greatly appreciate it if some one with more TL forum experience could verify, that that is likely the problem...
I use, and created the thread with, Firefox. If you use a different browser and have problems with the pictures it may be a browser-related problem.
If it is really only the centered map pics that so not show up, it could be <center> tags... They're not needed anyway, so I could remove them.
In the meantime you can use the album ne4aJIb liberally created (thanks for helping out ).
Have you tried using browser functions ("right click/view image" in Firefox)? If that does not work, there may be some freak problem with the image hoster. I could use another one to fix the issue.
On October 10 2012 18:52 LML wrote: the problem is that you're not linking to the actual picture. Go to the link, right click the picture and click on View image, then copy that URL
Im just really sad that there is no Ice map.... ;(( why dont anyone make these ? (same goes for Space Platform maps with super high ground.. ;() I think we should have at least 1.. [...] ps - 3 lava maps but no ice or space platform... ;( im sad..
As I said, further map pack releases are planned, Space maps will definitely be contained. Ice maps are another matter, because some players always complain about blinding snow terrain, and if you do not use it, you are stuck with very narrow design possibilities (basically you are stuck with something like Tau Cross).
On October 10 2012 18:52 LML wrote: the problem is that you're not linking to the actual picture. Go to the link, right click the picture and click on View image, then copy that URL
Im just really sad that there is no Ice map.... ;(( why dont anyone make these ? (same goes for Space Platform maps with super high ground.. ;() I think we should have at least 1.. [...] ps - 3 lava maps but no ice or space platform... ;( im sad..
As I said, further map pack releases are planned, Space maps will definitely be contained. Ice maps are another matter, because some players always complain about blinding snow terrain, and if you do not use it, you are stuck with very narrow design possibilities (basically you are stuck with something like Tau Cross).
oh nice ! more map realeses ! <3
as for the matter -
Blinding snow ???
what?.. T_T lol.. its not real life ffs, snow is not blinding at all.. besides I heard players complaining about lava maps too, they say they cant see their units on lava (red) or that burrowed units are hardly visible (actually pretty true lol )
Plus ! there is an ICE tileset that can be used when making ice maps (like in Silent Vortex)
I think an ice would be an amazing addition there is so many options.. and snow is not blinding at all.. wtf who would even say such a thing xD
so if you can take this into consideration please ?
On October 10 2012 18:52 LML wrote: the problem is that you're not linking to the actual picture. Go to the link, right click the picture and click on View image, then copy that URL
Im just really sad that there is no Ice map.... ;(( why dont anyone make these ? (same goes for Space Platform maps with super high ground.. ;() I think we should have at least 1.. [...] ps - 3 lava maps but no ice or space platform... ;( im sad..
As I said, further map pack releases are planned, Space maps will definitely be contained. Ice maps are another matter, because some players always complain about blinding snow terrain, and if you do not use it, you are stuck with very narrow design possibilities (basically you are stuck with something like Tau Cross).
go to your spoiler, right click on [image loading] and click on "View image", then click on "View image" on that image and you should be having the direct link (or "copy image location" on the picture)
On October 10 2012 19:50 LML wrote: snow maps are indeed irritating and blinding. Ashe maps tend to give a worse overview over lurkers and the minimap.
you have to be kidding me that it blinds you..
if it is then it is a sign that something is seriously wrong with your eyesight...
All I can say is that snow being blinding is the most stated official reasons why korean league maps used that terrain so little. Personal opinions on that matter may vary.
On October 10 2012 20:41 Freakling wrote: All I can say is that snow being blinding is the most stated official reasons why korean league maps used that terrain so little. Personal opinions on that matter may vary.
im not talking about all snow map
just an ice tileset
with ICE (like in Silent Vortex) that map wasnt blinding at all right ? (or Hitchhiker)
In theory on (4)DeserTec since ranged units have a 50% miss chance all most everywhere would phasing out dragoons in favor of archons and zealots over time be the way to play this map midgame/lategame if not (why?)
On October 11 2012 01:29 thezanursic wrote: Can any knowledgable player answer this question:
In theory on (4)DeserTec since ranged units have a 50% miss chance all most everywhere would phasing out dragoons in favor of archons and zealots over time be the way to play this map midgame/lategame if not (why?)
It depends on various factors, such as the match up for example Besides that it depends heavily on the engagement. PvP if you're on the higher ground, then alot of goons is likely to be better (as mostly in PvP), but you still require storm, and archon/zealot to keep his army from closing in (tanking dmg and also blocking the path). PvT archons aren't useful anyway due to EMP. PvZ it always depends on the zerg's army composition anyway, but you will require goons due to lurkers and air units anyway.
On October 11 2012 01:29 thezanursic wrote: Can any knowledgable player answer this question:
In theory on (4)DeserTec since ranged units have a 50% miss chance all most everywhere would phasing out dragoons in favor of archons and zealots over time be the way to play this map midgame/lategame if not (why?)
It depends on various factors, such as the match up for example Besides that it depends heavily on the engagement. PvP if you're on the higher ground, then alot of goons is likely to be better (as mostly in PvP), but you still require storm, and archon/zealot to keep his army from closing in (tanking dmg and also blocking the path). PvT archons aren't useful anyway due to EMP. PvZ it always depends on the zerg's army composition anyway, but you will require goons due to lurkers and air units anyway.
I meant PvP and the majority of the map is cowered by the 50% thing so when the engagement happens you have a 50 % miss chance unless you are bad and get caught out of position you need to engage in the middle where (BOTH of you have a 50% miss chance). Now wouldn't a zealot/archon with a bit more storm than usually just rape a dragoon force that is missing half the time?
Keep in mind that PvP is very mobile, and it's hard to force a player to fight under cover if he doesn't want to, unless you can corner or sandwich him, which means he's made a mistake in the first place.
And without goons to snipe units it would be hard to press an advantage, the enemy can always just safely retreat.
Shifting a bit more from goons to Zealots and using the saved gas for additional templar (mostly for those additional storms!, archons are only secondary) would probably be a good idea in any matchup, though.
But aside from maybe PvZ I cannot see a total lack of goons work out so well for Protoss.
On October 11 2012 04:52 Freakling wrote: Keep in mind that PvP is very mobile, and it's hard to force a player to fight under cover if he doesn't want to, unless you can corner or sandwich him, which means he's made a mistake in the first place.
And without goons to snipe units it would be hard to press an advantage, the enemy can always just safely retreat.
Shifting a bit more from goons to Zealots and using the saved gas for additional templar (mostly for those additional storms!, archons are only secondary) would probably a good idea in any matchup, though.
Aside from probably PvZ I cannot see a total lack of goons work out so well for Protoss, though.
In PvT it equalizes itself out since there are so many ranged units.
Maybe Zerg will just play Lurker ling defiler into ultra on that map since 50% will hurt hydras?
the 1st was DeserTec - pretty interesting map I already used the pylonfields to reduce his dragoon damage and was able to win with micro. Nice map, and it would be VERY interesting to see some pro players play on it
the 2nd one was Gemlong, and I must say.. IT IS AN AMAZING MAP !!!!!!! :D seriously.. it can be the next FS
we had a long macro game on it, really back and forth. I really enjoyed the map - awesome !
We will play 4 remaining maps yesterday (i think) and I will post my feelings about it
On October 10 2012 19:50 LML wrote: snow maps are indeed irritating and blinding. Ashe maps tend to give a worse overview over lurkers and the minimap.
you have to be kidding me that it blinds you..
if it is then it is a sign that something is seriously wrong with your eyesight...
it's been a common complaint since forever. its really distracting for me, winter conquest is the only map i can put up with because its that much fun.
On October 10 2012 19:50 LML wrote: snow maps are indeed irritating and blinding. Ashe maps tend to give a worse overview over lurkers and the minimap.
you have to be kidding me that it blinds you..
if it is then it is a sign that something is seriously wrong with your eyesight...
it's been a common complaint since forever. its really distracting for me, winter conquest is the only map i can put up with because its that much fun.
On October 11 2012 10:25 neobowman wrote: You can just go on BWMN anyway and download them individually.
If you pick up the maps individually from the respective map threads, you'll end up with a bunch of more or less outdated versions... But the whole map pack as such is available on BWMN, too. But I'd recommend using the bayfiles download, it's free and doesn't require yo to rename the file before opening it.
Played all of them a couple of times a while ago. Can list some quick thoughts on each of them if you like:
Cross Game. Feels way too big. Some things that look like a choke are too wide, highground ridges are too big to take proper advantage of and the thing just feels superwide. When playing vs Z as T I never got near his base, just bouncing back and forth between thirds while the Zerg army kept moving around mine.
Resonance. Also feels big and wide, but can't say much else.
Hazard Black. Looks really good, lot of potential. The Hazard logo shows up bright orange on the minimap though, which is super annoying if you play vs a Red opponent (i.e. all those who play on shift-tab).
Desertec. Really unsure how I feel about this. The Pylonpowercoverthing mechanic is cute to experiment with, but they're all over the place. Had some really weird games on that with TvZs ending up Firebat vs Hydra. And if you forget about the fields for a moment what you end up with is a pretty mediocre map in terms of looks and design. Really on the fence with this one
Melting Pot Not sure yet. Love the looks and had some pretty fun games on it. I'm a bi worried about encountering an opponent that abuses the bridges though
Gemlong Love it.
And yeah if you want to make efforts towards running a tournament on these I'd love to help. Need a prizepool though since if the really top foreigners aren't practising/playing for it it isn't really worth it imo :/
@Pholon: I greatly appreciate your feedback, also the one you gave us on BWMN. The "conservative" version was added mostly due to that.
Cross Game Can you be a bit more specific? Better yet could you send me a replay of the game(s) you describe (or upload it on BWMN). It's much easier to wrap one's head around those things when one is really seing them happening in-game.
Resonance It's open, for a 2p map, but also very saturated with expos and mostly buildable...
Hazard Use the "conservative" version then!
Desertec What you describe was exactly my intention when designing that map: A very standard map with a huge focus on the experimental mechanic (and no other overly fancy features to distract from that). Not sure, how serious FBvsHydra is... But I'd really like a replay, if possible, just because it sounds hilarious...
Melting I know about that concern and I'll be having a keen eye on it, but only games can tell for sure.
Gemlong So seems to do every one
As for a tournament and prize pool. We may actually manage to get that going. I really appreciate your offer for help and I'll contact you as soon as I know more details.
Of course I am assuming that you are using the latest official versions, i.e. the ones in the map pack. What I meant was, are you planning to use the "conservative" or the "normal" versions (-> my opening post)
I am just asking, because I'd like some feedback on which one of those players and tournament mods actually prefer.
Freakling: in the opening post, I cant see the main pictures. I can see all the other pictures though (using firefox). Can someone please help get that fixed? Also, consider editing the op so that you can see all 6 maps without opening any spoilers at the top of the post.
Thankyou and congratulations to everyone who worked really hard to put this together. Ive been having fun hosting the observer versions.
something I've tried. But without any money involved close to nobody will register, even half the players who checked in didn't show up. If any1 wants to put some money in for this I would organize and administrate the tour for it if needed.
On October 29 2012 08:55 LML wrote: something I've tried. But without any money involved close to nobody will register, even half the players who checked in didn't show up. If any1 wants to put some money in for this I would organize and administrate the tour for it if needed.
Better late to say this then never but, hey. These maps are great. Pholon and I played on all of them and I absolutely love gemlong. Obviously the wacky maps gave wacky games but Resonance II and Gemlong both produced really fun games.
Like Crimson)S(hadow said, I hope to see Gemlong on iccup
On November 04 2012 13:16 Probe1 wrote: Better late to say this then never but, hey. These maps are great. Pholon and I played on all of them and I absolutely love gemlong. Obviously the wacky maps gave wacky games but Resonance II and Gemlong both produced really fun games.
Like Crimson)S(hadow said, I hope to see Gemlong on iccup
I agree 100% !!!
I played on all of them with my friend too
and the best one was Gemlong by far
then Resonance II
I really hope to see these 2 on ICCup
or even Gemlong alone would be an amazing addition, and it has potential for replacing Fighting Spirit !!!
EPT![[image loading]](http://s8.postimage.org/v2rluvhvp/TL_Banner.png)
![[image loading]](http://s16.postimage.org/8uux481kj/2_BWMN_Cross_Game.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s9.postimage.org/p0gpdealb/Cross_vision_barrier.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s12.postimage.org/mostngjrh/Cross_tanking_4th.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s10.postimage.org/3voxps36h/Cross_Scouting.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s16.postimage.org/6ixo6vwol/Cross_Walling.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s16.postimage.org/r0cgw0qgj/2_BWMN_Resonance_II.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s11.postimage.org/dicvi7ndf/Resonance_Scouting.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s11.postimage.org/6bb6mccgj/Resonance_Walling.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s17.postimage.org/elhf707st/3_BWMN_Hazard_Black.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s9.postimage.org/b9gtoxb1b/Hazard_Eggs_Scarab.jpg<br>)
![[image loading]](http://s18.postimage.org/mfp3hmlih/Hazard_Scouting.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s10.postimage.org/sj366b6l5/Hazard_Walling.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s17.postimage.org/tjzu1fmv1/4_BWMN_Desertec.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s11.postimage.org/ucrpynmz7/Deser_Tec_Force_Field_Pv_T2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s18.postimage.org/cmqq75tux/Deser_Tec_Force_Field_Pv_T1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s7.postimage.org/67s5tgyqj/Deser_Tec_Force_Field_Lurker_Ling.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s15.postimage.org/o7juudli3/Deser_Tec_Force_Field_Mutas.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s18.postimage.org/70zppd3s9/Deser_Tec_Force_Field_Mines.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s12.postimage.org/3pfu0pedp/Desertec_Scouting.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s8.postimage.org/o45j1suo5/Desertec_Walling.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s11.postimage.org/kqdr1otc1/4_BWMN_Melting_Pot.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s10.postimage.org/fqoph8qop/Melting_Scouting.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s9.postimage.org/bxbw2n5lr/Melting_Walling.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s11.postimage.org/5gdvuhxtt/4_BWMN_Gemlong1_0.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s10.postimage.org/3v1yt2k9l/Gemlong_Scouting.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s12.postimage.org/a9n7kshsd/Gemlong_Walling.jpg)
)?
It would be good![[image loading]](http://s16.postimage.org/pimf6pwc3/2_BWMN_Cross_Game.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s16.postimage.org/xbd2yp2b5/2_BWMN_Cross_Game.jpg)
