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Dyad A 2vs2 player map where allies spawn together under Use Map Settings.
Note: Pictures In Spolier Tags Below
Click this Link for Full Size Pictures
Or Click Here for a Slideshow
Features: 1. Defeat screen only when you and your ally have both died.
2. Map is greyed out at the start of the game rather than blacked out, so the layout of bases and terrain is visible.
3. Slots for four observers.
4. Peon Prison. Trap a worker for air stacks. + Show Spoiler +
5. Two pairs of pylons will wall the Thirds against vultures (plus markers). South Third + Show Spoiler +
West Third + Show Spoiler +
6. One depot and one barracks will wall the main against zerglings (plus markers) (see pictures in bullet point 7 below).
7. Walling markers for a pylon and cannons at the North and South Naturals. South + Show Spoiler +
North + Show Spoiler +
East + Show Spoiler +
West + Show Spoiler +
Additional Pictures + Show Spoiler +
Changelog + Show Spoiler +22nd August 2012 Version 1.0 Dyad
29th August 2012 Version 1.1 Dyad -Wider ramps to highground Thirds -Altered 12 and 6 o clock Naturals
5th October 2012 Version 1.2 -Cheese wedges at the lowground Thirds -Reduced the size of the central hills -Added overlord spots to the centre -Zergling tight walls with only one depot and one barracks are now possible -Many minor tweaks
9th October 2012 Version 1.3 -Added walling markers for a pylon and cannons at the North and South Naturals -Decoration
A 'Dyad' is a group of two people.
Download (4)Dyad from this page
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ALLEYCAT BLUES48984 Posts
another CardinalAllin map...Brilliant indeed.
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United States9645 Posts
This could work out as a 3v3 map too! one ally is stuck in the middle of nowhere (AKA the corners) xD
ofc, very nice as usual.
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Netherlands4485 Posts
I didn't play it yet, but the 4 main ramps worry me. It seems like it would be nicer to have them mirrored or either have 1 vertical and 1 horizontal ramp to each main.
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On August 23 2012 00:37 s.Q.uelched wrote: I didn't play it yet, but the 4 main ramps worry me. It seems like it would be nicer to have them mirrored or either have 1 vertical and 1 horizontal ramp to each main. I dont understand whtas the problem? It looks mirrored to me
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Its interesting that there is somewhat of a choice of 'which side do I take?' though its not clear what those random mineral patches in the middle low-ground are for; mining out to make the battlefield more manoeuverable, denying sunken contains? (: PM me if you want to test a few games.
I like the Peon Trap. Since its a UMS map (amirite?) how about investing in silly little tricks (of course I'd say this) like making the middle two ridges like Xel'Naga Watchtowers. If it makes the games bad, you can remove.
Also, another idea I just had was to be creative with hallucinated minerals (I don't know how hard it is to implement, Nightmarjoo knows). For example, if you decide people are taking the 3rd too quickly, you can place blocking minerals (ramps and preventing float), which disappear after a short period of time. If only there'd be a way to make minerals APPEAR, meaning if you don't expo soon enough, there's a mineral patch nearby that you have to mine out before being to optimally place your town center.
Permanent spells can be a bit finnicky, maybe some neutral buildings instead of permanent ridges, that when-killed open up the map for more manoeuverability. I dunno, sounds fun. And I still want to implement one of my 'Silly Spells' in a feasible capacity.
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Netherlands4485 Posts
On August 23 2012 00:50 brolaf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 00:37 s.Q.uelched wrote: I didn't play it yet, but the 4 main ramps worry me. It seems like it would be nicer to have them mirrored or either have 1 vertical and 1 horizontal ramp to each main. I dont understand whtas the problem? It looks mirrored to me Right now the ramps are made like this \ by having them mirrored I meant to have all 4 ramps be like this / I hope you understand.
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On August 23 2012 00:50 bITt.mAN wrote: Its interesting that there is somewhat of a choice of 'which side do I take?' though its not clear what those random mineral patches in the middle low-ground are for; mining out to make the battlefield more manoeuverable, denying sunken contains? (: PM me if you want to test a few games.
I like the Peon Trap. Since its a UMS map (amirite?) how about investing in silly little tricks (of course I'd say this) like making the middle two ridges like Xel'Naga Watchtowers. If it makes the games bad, you can remove.
Also, another idea I just had was to be creative with hallucinated minerals (I don't know how hard it is to implement, Nightmarjoo knows). For example, if you decide people are taking the 3rd too quickly, you can place blocking minerals (ramps and preventing float), which disappear after a short period of time. If only there'd be a way to make minerals APPEAR, meaning if you don't expo soon enough, there's a mineral patch nearby that you have to mine out before being to optimally place your town center.
Permanent spells can be a bit finnicky, maybe some neutral buildings instead of permanent ridges, that when-killed open up the map for more manoeuverability. I dunno, sounds fun. And I still want to implement one of my 'Silly Spells' in a feasible capacity. Oh. God. Please. No@everything after 2nd paragraph.
Card gj. I enjoyed the 1 game I got to watch on this map. However, what is with you and minerals? Are you an SCV and I didn't even know it?!?
@Above poster why move the ramps that way? o.O
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United States9645 Posts
On August 23 2012 00:59 s.Q.uelched wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 00:50 brolaf wrote:On August 23 2012 00:37 s.Q.uelched wrote: I didn't play it yet, but the 4 main ramps worry me. It seems like it would be nicer to have them mirrored or either have 1 vertical and 1 horizontal ramp to each main. I dont understand whtas the problem? It looks mirrored to me Right now the ramps are made like this \by having them mirrored I meant to have all 4 ramps be like this /I hope you understand. i dont see the problem with this. its probs just a personal preference.
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Also one minor thing. if team goes for RR (hoping for double zerg or something ull know right away cause u will be able to see creep where the starting positions are)
Played few games on this map and it feels awesome.
1 ramp is 8 hex wide (team bottom: 1, team top: 2) others u can use depo depo rax to wall
and no, u cant siege gases in naturals from high ground thirds :D
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Wait, wasn't this "Lioylds Beacon v1.1"? Are there any replays available?
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No that was a different map, but very similar indeed.
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Netherlands4485 Posts
On August 23 2012 02:18 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 00:59 s.Q.uelched wrote:On August 23 2012 00:50 brolaf wrote:On August 23 2012 00:37 s.Q.uelched wrote: I didn't play it yet, but the 4 main ramps worry me. It seems like it would be nicer to have them mirrored or either have 1 vertical and 1 horizontal ramp to each main. I dont understand whtas the problem? It looks mirrored to me Right now the ramps are made like this \by having them mirrored I meant to have all 4 ramps be like this /I hope you understand. i dont see the problem with this. its probs just a personal preference. I made this comment because with his previous map, I felt that the ai pathing was exceptionally buggy at the ramps.
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United States9645 Posts
On August 23 2012 04:40 s.Q.uelched wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 02:18 FlaShFTW wrote:On August 23 2012 00:59 s.Q.uelched wrote:On August 23 2012 00:50 brolaf wrote:On August 23 2012 00:37 s.Q.uelched wrote: I didn't play it yet, but the 4 main ramps worry me. It seems like it would be nicer to have them mirrored or either have 1 vertical and 1 horizontal ramp to each main. I dont understand whtas the problem? It looks mirrored to me Right now the ramps are made like this \by having them mirrored I meant to have all 4 ramps be like this /I hope you understand. i dont see the problem with this. its probs just a personal preference. I made this comment because with his previous map, I felt that the ai pathing was exceptionally buggy at the ramps. are there scenarios in which you couild prove this? do you mean like with you wanting to go to one ramp but it ends up going to the other?
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EDIT: I'll draw u a picture when I get back home.
my word I'm glad you had a book to write all the stuff down. Please upload the .rep , or at least examine in a repaly reader and spoiler the 2 HOUR chat-log.
As I was going to sleep last night I had a ton of really good ideas that I talked with you about I was lying in bed and the stuff was still racing though my mind.
How about replacing the minerals in the middle with 7x150min stacked things instead. That would mean they're kinda like 'high yield' in that they give faster income (thus more reward), but are pretty exposed. They'd only really be used for endgame long distance mining situations, but still, if you're gonna have them, might as well have them make as much sense as possible. Another minor idea is managing to make the hills themselves in the middle kinda like mineral-onlys, by sticking normal mineral fields (or said stacked ones) right on the edge of the cliff so that you could just fit a CC (or equivalent) on top. I guess I'm thinking Plains to Hill aka. Pelenor. This is interesting, as they're quite exposed and vulnerable to attack from all sides. Then, taking this base would mean saccrificing using it for anything else BUT mining, as the CC and miners would screw the pathing to hell. Mine, or tanks on hill? -->STRATEGYYYYY
The big idea though was a way to use that space below the 3rd with the big white doodad (5). In retrospect, the actual expo is a good distance from its choke, meaning even if you control the choke area, they can still kinda defend and get moniez from the expo. Basically, port the bottom right and top left bases from Nostalgia. You'd have the mineral only at the nat of the corner expo, being near-er to the cliff. You can move everything on that side down a bit (making middle left/right 3rds further away) without concern because there'd be no gas, and the mineral field would be snuggy up against the cliff. But don't remove too much low-ground at that nat, u still want somewhere to mass turrets.
Anyway, you have a Nostalgia-style high-ground bridge right from the left side of the mineral-only, snaking behind the 3rd gas, and ending up on the side of the natural. You would block off the entrances to it (more on that later) with neutral buildings, so its not too imba. First, this lets you harass that 3rd. Put it close enough that even vultures and lurkers, not just Tanks, can get shots. Since you need to jump walls/kill walls/have drop tech in order to harass that 3rd, this gives option for cliffing with drops and more dynamic play, YAY.
I like this idea because it allows for runbys, more manoeuvering, and more interesting game dynamics and terrain stuffed into one map. Now, the types of temples+mins you place to block will be very important. With a new bridge to the corner expos, if it weren't blocked, people could walk over there sigege up, free base. Also, if it isn't locked, lings could run around the side like on Moon Glaive. I mean, that wouldn't be THAT much of a problem, but it'd be annoying, and would certainly affect our walling discussions. You want the outside part to be jumpable like on Medusa or Electric Circuit. Those temples (dunno how many) are well ballanced, I think you should port them direct. I mean, you could just have a mineral blocking the ramp like Baekmagojji, but, I dunno, I would prefer it feels like something that's super solid all the way until midgame, which is how the Medusa temples play. There are different ways you could do the ramps. Either 2 separate one blocked, or one big wider one and placing the blockers at the point where the bridge peels off from the corner expo. Ballance of space (IT WONT FIT!), how easy it is for enemies to move through there, and how easy it is to defend there. [another fun mechanic we haven't investigated is imitating the neutral buildings in the main on Andromeda, clearing them getting you more access to your main meaning better AA defense]
For the part leading out of the natural, I think it'd be best to copy how its done in the corners of HBR. That means, you can spend the time and mine that guy out before they can come in from the outside, letting you move a few small units up and down. But for proper mobilization, I think it'd be cool if you could have the same temples and stacking as on HBR, except (if possible) half the temple is super-imposed on the cliff, meaning the overall path would be less wide than the temples blocking. Remember, you'd have to leave a gap for units to walk though once you've taken out the stacled 0 minerals. The path should be as wide as can fit on this map which is already stuffed with cool shit the same width as their soul sisters on Nostalgia, or the back ridge behind the nats on HBR. Arguably, there's a case to be made that you should design it like Gaia's second-entrance-to-nats, except the bridge it leads onto only overlooks the 3rd. Or, even crazier idea, you could put [a narrow (a la 815) ?] ramp from the overlooking bridge, down to the 3rd, blocked by a nearly-done mineral patch (e.g. 32min). Perfect ballance between something that could be agressively mined out (4 passes, 5 is too much IMO) to let ur harassers up on the cliff, and something that would be mined out automatically once people take that base, stimulating them to use the bridge.
Yeah, I'll draw u a picture, and I really wish I was any good at using a proper mapping program to show u proof of concept. HF HF EDIT: And having referenced 11 different maps in my discourse, I conclude that I am an awesome person. Now if I'd only put in the practice to make maps (starting with shitty ones) myself, instead of just thinking about them q:
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United States9645 Posts
On August 28 2012 22:20 bITt.mAN wrote: EDIT: I'll draw u a picture when I get back home.
my word I'm glad you had a book to write all the stuff down. Please upload the .rep , or at least examine in a repaly reader and spoiler the 2 HOUR chat-log.
As I was going to sleep last night I had a ton of really good ideas that I talked with you about I was lying in bed and the stuff was still racing though my mind.
How about replacing the minerals in the middle with 7x150min stacked things instead. That would mean they're kinda like 'high yield' in that they give faster income (thus more reward), but are pretty exposed. They'd only really be used for endgame long distance mining situations, but still, if you're gonna have them, might as well have them make as much sense as possible. Another minor idea is managing to make the hills themselves in the middle kinda like mineral-onlys, by sticking normal mineral fields (or said stacked ones) right on the edge of the cliff so that you could just fit a CC (or equivalent) on top. I guess I'm thinking Plains to Hill aka. Pelenor. This is interesting, as they're quite exposed and vulnerable to attack from all sides. Then, taking this base would mean saccrificing using it for anything else BUT mining, as the CC and miners would screw the pathing to hell. Mine, or tanks on hill? -->STRATEGYYYYY
The big idea though was a way to use that space below the 3rd with the big white doodad (5). In retrospect, the actual expo is a good distance from its choke, meaning even if you control the choke area, they can still kinda defend and get moniez from the expo. Basically, port the bottom right and top left bases from Nostalgia. You'd have the mineral only at the nat of the corner expo, being near-er to the cliff. You can move everything on that side down a bit (making middle left/right 3rds further away) without concern because there'd be no gas, and the mineral field would be snuggy up against the cliff. But don't remove too much low-ground at that nat, u still want somewhere to mass turrets.
Anyway, you have a Nostalgia-style high-ground bridge right from the left side of the mineral-only, snaking behind the 3rd gas, and ending up on the side of the natural. You would block off the entrances to it (more on that later) with neutral buildings, so its not too imba. First, this lets you harass that 3rd. Put it close enough that even vultures and lurkers, not just Tanks, can get shots. Since you need to jump walls/kill walls/have drop tech in order to harass that 3rd, this gives option for cliffing with drops and more dynamic play, YAY.
I like this idea because it allows for runbys, more manoeuvering, and more interesting game dynamics and terrain stuffed into one map. Now, the types of temples+mins you place to block will be very important. With a new bridge to the corner expos, if it weren't blocked, people could walk over there sigege up, free base. Also, if it isn't locked, lings could run around the side like on Moon Glaive. I mean, that wouldn't be THAT much of a problem, but it'd be annoying, and would certainly affect our walling discussions. You want the outside part to be jumpable like on Medusa or Electric Circuit. Those temples (dunno how many) are well ballanced, I think you should port them direct. I mean, you could just have a mineral blocking the ramp like Baekmagojji, but, I dunno, I would prefer it feels like something that's super solid all the way until midgame, which is how the Medusa temples play. There are different ways you could do the ramps. Either 2 separate one blocked, or one big wider one and placing the blockers at the point where the bridge peels off from the corner expo. Ballance of space (IT WONT FIT!), how easy it is for enemies to move through there, and how easy it is to defend there. [another fun mechanic we haven't investigated is imitating the neutral buildings in the main on Andromeda, clearing them getting you more access to your main meaning better AA defense]
For the part leading out of the natural, I think it'd be best to copy how its done in the corners of HBR. That means, you can spend the time and mine that guy out before they can come in from the outside, letting you move a few small units up and down. But for proper mobilization, I think it'd be cool if you could have the same temples and stacking as on HBR, except (if possible) half the temple is super-imposed on the cliff, meaning the overall path would be less wide than the temples blocking. Remember, you'd have to leave a gap for units to walk though once you've taken out the stacled 0 minerals. The path should be as wide as can fit on this map which is already stuffed with cool shit the same width as their soul sisters on Nostalgia, or the back ridge behind the nats on HBR. Arguably, there's a case to be made that you should design it like Gaia's second-entrance-to-nats, except the bridge it leads onto only overlooks the 3rd. Or, even crazier idea, you could put [a narrow (a la 815) ?] ramp from the overlooking bridge, down to the 3rd, blocked by a nearly-done mineral patch (e.g. 32min). Perfect ballance between something that could be agressively mined out (4 passes, 5 is too much IMO) to let ur harassers up on the cliff, and something that would be mined out automatically once people take that base, stimulating them to use the bridge.
Yeah, I'll draw u a picture, and I really wish I was any good at using a proper mapping program to show u proof of concept. HF HF EDIT: And having referenced 11 different maps in my discourse, I conclude that I am an awesome person. Now if I'd only put in the practice to make maps (starting with shitty ones) myself, instead of just thinking about them q: oh mah god this wall of text O.o need picture ASAP
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{: FlashFTW why do I never see you in OP TeamLiquid? Yeah Time zone differences, but would you mind disclosing your aka. For playing with TL people I always stitch out to my 'bITt.mAN' acc, how about you? Or am I just a noob and you are around?
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Alright, time to grafix this shit up!
EDIT with pix incoming!
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United States9645 Posts
On August 28 2012 23:41 bITt.mAN wrote: {: FlashFTW why do I never see you in OP TeamLiquid? Yeah Time zone differences, but would you mind disclosing your aka. For playing with TL people I always stitch out to my 'bITt.mAN' acc, how about you? Or am I just a noob and you are around? i dont play anymore. sorry
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just played a game on this map yesterday
it is a pretty cool map
I like it
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I have uploaded Version 1.1 now. -Wider ramps to highground Thirds -Altered 12 and 6 o clock Naturals
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United States9645 Posts
Yo cardinal, you should make it so that you have an optional 3v3. id really like to see how that would play out with one random guy spawning in the corner
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Me and some of my friends played on this map. It's awesome!
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I have uploaded Version 1.2 now. -Cheese wedges at the lowground Thirds -Reduced the size of the central hills -Added overlord spots to the centre -Zergling tight walls with only one depot and one barracks are now possible -Many minor tweaks
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Played a racewar PvT on this map, was a tight game. P seemed a bit overpowered from the easy expos, but I think good vulture scouting can balance it, then tornado with terran ball.
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hey, felt somewhat the same as ryshi about the map considering pvt. But on the other hand i feel im not really able to judge it well enough yet. I'd need to play more games. But my guess is Terran can use the map terrain pretty good to do a turtle style to get 3 base econ and do very strong pushes from it. The area next to the 12 and 6 o clock natural seems very abusable with carriers to me. not much space from the edge to the CC Position and good space to maneuver.
But its a great map, i liked it quite well (;
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Just wanted to say its my favorite 2v2 map and can make for really amazing long games. Also like the new depot/barracks wallsa lot. Keep up the good work!
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@FlashFTW could work out as a 3v3 map too, one ally is stuck in the middle of nowhere
Im saving a layout a bit like that for another map! There isnt enough space in the corners for a main base so Im going to keep this one 2v2 only.
@s.Q.uelched I didn't play it yet, but the 4 main ramps worry me. Allay your fears
@bITt.mAN its not clear what those random mineral patches in the middle low-ground are for They are pretty obstacles, and are 750 minerals.
Since its UMS...how about...making the middle two ridges like Xel'Naga Watchtowers. It is possible, Ive done it on a previous map. However, I dont think this map needs them, and I want to keep it 'pure'. I specifically want to keep this map free of neutral buildings and spells aswell.
Nightmarjoo knows Ofcourse he does. I imagine omniscience has its perks!
@Pucca Wait, wasn't this "Lloyds Beacon"?
Thats a different map, see Lloyds Beacon here
Are there any replays available? Not yet, Im working on that.
@bITt.mAN *Massive Post* You bring up many interesting things, and Im finding it really hard to word my response. Your post shows that you love having a wide variety of tactics available early in the game, and that you enjoy being able to use micro with just a few units to get massively ahead. In a way, you want more and more options to attack early.
This map is the polar opposite of that design philosophy. This map is the epitome of what people call 'solid, standard, safe'. In a way, it limits the effectiveness of all timing attacks as much as possible. This leads to satisfying, skillbased gameplay. It leads to longer games, where the later and later game gets explored more often. It leads to stability whereas the other design philosophy leads to chaos. Now, understand that chaos is allowed and useful. I consider Plasma and Pathfinder examples. Experimental maps have their place, they spark off ideas and can sometimes help push things forward. Its simply just that Dyad isnt designed for that style. (Im making a map that is though)
Ofcourse I have greatly oversimplified things in the above paragraph to the point at which Im kind of lying but I dont want to waste your time if its not required. Ive already spent ages trying to word this correctly, redrafting and deleting things over and over haha
So leaving the philosophical topics alone for now, I will touch on a few details. + Show Spoiler +Regarding expansions on the centre hills, they are too small now so thats out. Regarding drop spots/ledges, they dont fit well with this map imo but hopefully you like the cheese wedges at 12 and 6 o clock instead. Referencing 11 maps was indeed awesome, and I look forward to playing on some of your maps one day.
And to everyone else, thankyou.
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United States9645 Posts
wow. i like the idea of overlord spots in the center! really nice idea.
good changes. solid map.
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I have uploaded Version 1.3 now. -Added walling markers for a pylon and cannons at the North and South Naturals -Decoration
Ive also added 18 Pictures, including my favourite:
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United States9645 Posts
hard as hell to see the forge FE placements for the east and west.
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That would be because there arent any. The entrances to the east and west naturals are especially comfortable to wall for Protoss; vertical 8 tile gaps. You put your pylon at the bottom, then forge on top, then gate on top of that in a straight line. There is a 1 tile gap at the top for units to get out. The gap between the pylon and forge must be plugged against zerglings though.
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
For the north and south, its like this:
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
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<3 PM me some time to try it out, lookin gooood
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Ahm planning to make a tournament on this map. Not tottaly certain when. Ah was considering this weekend (November 3). Anyone interrested?
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On October 31 2012 04:02 greatnoob wrote: Ahm planning to make a tournament on this map. Not tottaly certain when. Ah was considering this weekend (November 3). Anyone interrested? I'd recommend trying to contact one of the iCCup admins when you planning to run this tournament has they have the announcment ability to get more people to sign up for your tournament. If I'm not busy at that time I'd join but I'm terrible at 2x2
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Well, originally ah was planning to do it with some of my low level friends (ranging from D- to C-). Although ahm not sure how many of them would come, so ah decided (using Cardinals tip) to post here.
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CARDI plz give me ur mail Do u have M64 MAP?????/ It was our 1st meeting on it
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