I'm a very casual BW player, meaning I only play some games vs. my brother twice a year when I visit my family for the past ~8 years and some games vs. AI in between to keep my mechanics en par.
We had an awesome map-pack at some point, including 5 or 6 Korean competetive maps and pretty large preview-pictures for each of them, which made inventing tactics very easy.
Now I somehow lost the pack and I wonder if you guys could help me out and recommend some balanced, competetive maps. The standard maps are all really bad, at least in my SC2-mind, for they don't have easily accessible naturals, have naturals without gas or have very few bases in general.
One map I remember well is the one with the giant reverse-Swastika on it. Despite that design flaw, it always played out very nicely.
The second one that comes to mind - and if you guess this one, I'll be amazed - was l-shaped (more long than wide) and had a layout very much like Crossfire (former GSL map) and a green-ish tileset.
I'd greatly appreciate your input in regards to favourite BW-maps.
2nd one must be (Sin) Peaks of Bakdu. Crossfire was almost an exact remake except they did away with the annoying small paths in middle so only small units could pass.
You guys are amazing, Sniper Ridge and Peaks of Beakdu are correct.
How do I filter the maps by pro-league?
Okay, the last one that might have been my absolute favourite:
2-Player Map, green tileset, natural accessible through small ramp (from main) and then there's a very large center area. The natural has a river with two bridges directly in front of it and it definitely has an English name.
There was a back-path behind the natural that led up into the main, provided you brought a harvester to remove some minerals.
On July 13 2012 22:44 kafkaesque wrote: You guys are amazing, Sniper Ridge and Peaks of Beakdu are correct.
How do I filter the maps by pro-league?
Okay, the last one that might have been my absolute favourite:
2-Player Map, green tileset, natural accessible through small ramp (from main) and then there's a very large center area. The natural has a river with two bridges directly in front of it and it definitely has an English name.
On July 13 2012 22:44 kafkaesque wrote: You guys are amazing, Sniper Ridge and Peaks of Beakdu are correct.
How do I filter the maps by pro-league?
Okay, the last one that might have been my absolute favourite:
2-Player Map, green tileset, natural accessible through small ramp (from main) and then there's a very large center area. The natural has a river with two bridges directly in front of it and it definitely has an English name.
There was a back-path behind the natural that led up into the main, provided you brought a harvester to remove some minerals.
hahahaha naming all these maps remind me of when my friends and I used to have 5 person FFAs or 1v1 matches at my house and we'd have people watch on a projector the 1v1 games. So many good times..
Also, I'm surprised the citizens of TL haven't set up some haven for people who still play BW on Battle.net so they can all just play each other and what not
See if you like any maps on broodwarmaps.net , lots of cool maps there by foreigners (to S.Korea) that can be amazingly close to the level of balance some korean maps have.
Or do you imply there's no (reverse) Swastika to be seen here?
He means that it is not a "design flaw" since Swastika itself is not negative, especially not in Korean sense, who themselves were victims of WW2.
Ah, okay.
It still take deliberate miss-interpretation of my post to take that as a sign of me not knowing the origins of the Swastika. Obviously its WW2 connotations are more present in Western European and especially German minds...
Or do you imply there's no (reverse) Swastika to be seen here?
He means that it is not a "design flaw" since Swastika itself is not negative, especially not in Korean sense, who themselves were victims of WW2.
Ah, okay.
It still take deliberate miss-interpretation of my post to take that as a sign of me not knowing the origins of the Swastika. Obviously its WW2 connotations are more present in Western European and especially German minds...
I know what you mean... Nazi stole it from it's original Asian root (good luck and prosper) and turned it into something else. But the symbol itself still have important meanings in Asian, and you can understand why Korean maps would have them.
It's like if someone kill millions of people use the cross, and changed its meaning in popular culture. Christians would be pretty sensitive to that also.
No one has mentioned Lost Temple? Waaaah :O Balanced and fun map. And not quite as "clinical" as a lot of the newer 4p maps (cough fighting spirit, jade, ground zero, cough)
On July 14 2012 03:49 brolaf wrote: No one has mentioned Lost Temple? Waaaah :O Balanced and fun map. And not quite as "clinical" as a lot of the newer 4p maps (cough fighting spirit, jade, ground zero, cough)
On July 14 2012 01:37 ninazerg wrote: The most god-awful maps that somehow became popular are:
Python Heartbreak Ridge Tau Cross
If someone offers to play these maps, just say no.
what? tau and HBR are great maps. Tau is the best snow map ever invented yo. HBR was also an amazing map.
I think Python is the only stupid map that became popular.
I feel claustrophobic playing on HBR. The new HBR made the map slightly better, but still the map favors tons and tons of static defense, which makes the map horrid for Protoss, unless they go for some early game aggression - which brings me to my next qualm with HBR: it's so bad in the late game, that it's become a notorious cheese map.
Tau Cross kind of suffers from the same anti-Protoss syndrome, but for different reasons than HBR. Taking a third base against Terran or Zerg can be quite difficult because that base is wide-open for harassment. Plus, the cliffs make PvT even worse, because the wide area in the base sets up the Protoss for multiple drops that are just devastating. My diagnosis is that the Protoss can never feel safe about any of their bases at any time. Therefore, the only option is to go 10/15 gate and bust down the Terran, or bulldog them to death.
PvZ is just as bad, if not worse. The third base area is actually pretty easy for Zerg to defend, whereas it requires a massive number of cannons from the Protoss player to be safe. The drop distance and paths are usually very easy for the Zerg to exploit as well.
Doesn't even get me started on ZvT on Tau Cross. If I start thinking about it, I'll have nightmares.
On July 14 2012 03:49 brolaf wrote: No one has mentioned Lost Temple? Waaaah :O Balanced and fun map. And not quite as "clinical" as a lot of the newer 4p maps (cough fighting spirit, jade, ground zero, cough)
"balanced"? when you can siege other people's mains from some of your main in certain positions? @_@
On July 14 2012 03:49 brolaf wrote: No one has mentioned Lost Temple? Waaaah :O Balanced and fun map. And not quite as "clinical" as a lot of the newer 4p maps (cough fighting spirit, jade, ground zero, cough)
"balanced"? when you can siege other people's mains from some of your main in certain positions? @_@
On July 14 2012 03:49 brolaf wrote: No one has mentioned Lost Temple? Waaaah :O Balanced and fun map. And not quite as "clinical" as a lot of the newer 4p maps (cough fighting spirit, jade, ground zero, cough)
Not really balanced, it's a terran playground.
Fighting spirit is one of my favorite maps though.
On July 14 2012 03:49 brolaf wrote: No one has mentioned Lost Temple? Waaaah :O Balanced and fun map. And not quite as "clinical" as a lot of the newer 4p maps (cough fighting spirit, jade, ground zero, cough)
Not really balanced, it's a terran playground.
Fighting spirit is one of my favorite maps though.
Terrans got mauled by P when LT2 was on proscene. and TvZ 57% winrate is pretty much the norm on most maps so that isnt anything weirdly imbalanced.
On July 14 2012 01:28 3FFA wrote: See if you like any maps on broodwarmaps.net , lots of cool maps there by foreigners (to S.Korea) that can be amazingly close to the level of balance some korean maps have.
And Blood Bath. Oh wait...
And on that note, I can suggest some relatively recently made maps from bwm:
Geez guys I don't believe it. 1 BW is active, but even greater 2 THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE UNIVERSE WHO EXPRESS A SENTIMENT OF BEING SICK OF THE SAME STANDARD MAPS!
You can't appreciate how huge a shock this reality is until you spend a night on iCCup (or Fish I guess) trying, OH SURE TRYING, to break the monotonous monopoly on fun that FS (that's it really) and Pyt. No, the list isin't even 3 members long, because 3 maps must be WAY too much for people to manage, or fit in their brains, or being remotely interested in. "Ugh, I have to learn a new map?" No, it's a priviledge, you GET to play on a different map!
If (perish the thought) someone would dare stand up to the challenge of defeating that monstrous market share, saturation and control of Fighting Spirit, how would they do it? A lone crusader like me fails when I can't host. We need Celebrity Endorsement! Gem league was so much more fun than it could have been if the'd stuck to your typical ladder maps. These wonky community events (which, by the way, is the only way foreign BW will stay active, fun, and alive) are much more humorous and entertaining when it's not just the players and strategies, but the maps as well, that diverge from the norm.
Get playing old maps guys!
The tragedy is that maps I detested and was sick of (from over-use) back when I started ladder in 2008 (BS, Katrina, Tau, Andro, Athena, Desti even) I am now starting to love, cause I really fucking miss them! I yearn and groan for them each time I have to settle for Python, least alone FS. Chup Gaia HBR (!) Othello Grand Line LT MP (!) Medusa (list goes on and on) are the sort of maps you'd always expect to see around, and they're good enough that they deserve to be seen, but they're certainly not from my seat (maybe I'm doing it wrong, I hope so)!
Fuck those people who only HOST FS or Pyt, seriously, that's how frustrated I am with them. Monotony sucks, I want something interesting! Yes yes my win-ratio is far more dependent on how much I focus on SCV production and macro, and not really affected by the map, but still, I want it to at least FEEL like I'm not just playing the exact same TvP as the last 20 games. Geez
On July 14 2012 06:35 bITt.mAN wrote: I was thinking Azalea as well q:
Geez guys I don't believe it. 1 BW is active, but even greater 2 THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE UNIVERSE WHO EXPRESS A SENTIMENT OF BEING SICK OF THE SAME STANDARD MAPS!
You can't appreciate how huge a shock this reality is until you spend a night on iCCup (or Fish I guess) trying, OH SURE TRYING, to break the monotonous monopoly on fun that FS (that's it really) and Pyt. No, the list isin't even 3 members long, because 3 maps must be WAY too much for people to manage, or fit in their brains, or being remotely interested in. "Ugh, I have to learn a new map?" No, it's a priviledge, you GET to play on a different map!
If (perish the thought) someone would dare stand up to the challenge of defeating that monstrous market share, saturation and control of Fighting Spirit, how would they do it? A lone crusader like me fails when I can't host. We need Celebrity Endorsement! Gem league was so much more fun than it could have been if the'd stuck to your typical ladder maps. These wonky community events (which, by the way, is the only way foreign BW will stay active, fun, and alive) are much more humorous and entertaining when it's not just the players and strategies, but the maps as well, that diverge from the norm.
Get playing old maps guys!
The tragedy is that maps I detested and was sick of (from over-use) back when I started ladder in 2008 (BS, Katrina, Tau, Andro, Athena, Desti even) I am now starting to love, cause I really fucking miss them! I yearn and groan for them each time I have to settle for Python, least alone FS. Chup Gaia HBR (!) Othello Grand Line LT MP (!) Medusa (list goes on and on) are the sort of maps you'd always expect to see around, and they're good enough that they deserve to be seen, but they're certainly not from my seat (maybe I'm doing it wrong, I hope so)!
Fuck those people who only HOST FS or Pyt, seriously, that's how frustrated I am with them. Monotony sucks, I want something interesting! Yes yes my win-ratio is far more dependent on how much I focus on SCV production and macro, and not really affected by the map, but still, I want it to at least FEEL like I'm not just playing the exact same TvP as the last 20 games. Geez
On July 14 2012 06:35 bITt.mAN wrote: I was thinking Azalea as well q:
Geez guys I don't believe it. 1 BW is active, but even greater 2 THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE UNIVERSE WHO EXPRESS A SENTIMENT OF BEING SICK OF THE SAME STANDARD MAPS!
You can't appreciate how huge a shock this reality is until you spend a night on iCCup (or Fish I guess) trying, OH SURE TRYING, to break the monotonous monopoly on fun that FS (that's it really) and Pyt. No, the list isin't even 3 members long, because 3 maps must be WAY too much for people to manage, or fit in their brains, or being remotely interested in. "Ugh, I have to learn a new map?" No, it's a priviledge, you GET to play on a different map!
If (perish the thought) someone would dare stand up to the challenge of defeating that monstrous market share, saturation and control of Fighting Spirit, how would they do it? A lone crusader like me fails when I can't host. We need Celebrity Endorsement! Gem league was so much more fun than it could have been if the'd stuck to your typical ladder maps. These wonky community events (which, by the way, is the only way foreign BW will stay active, fun, and alive) are much more humorous and entertaining when it's not just the players and strategies, but the maps as well, that diverge from the norm.
Get playing old maps guys!
The tragedy is that maps I detested and was sick of (from over-use) back when I started ladder in 2008 (BS, Katrina, Tau, Andro, Athena, Desti even) I am now starting to love, cause I really fucking miss them! I yearn and groan for them each time I have to settle for Python, least alone FS. Chup Gaia HBR (!) Othello Grand Line LT MP (!) Medusa (list goes on and on) are the sort of maps you'd always expect to see around, and they're good enough that they deserve to be seen, but they're certainly not from my seat (maybe I'm doing it wrong, I hope so)!
Fuck those people who only HOST FS or Pyt, seriously, that's how frustrated I am with them. Monotony sucks, I want something interesting! Yes yes my win-ratio is far more dependent on how much I focus on SCV production and macro, and not really affected by the map, but still, I want it to at least FEEL like I'm not just playing the exact same TvP as the last 20 games. Geez
just host motw maps.
Here's a one-line reply pointing you towards the blatant flaw in your suggestion - regardless, obscure and old maps are out of the question, the problem is that people don't venture out of their comfort zone EVEN FOR MOTW, and then they do stupid stuff like making Pyt and FS motw, which defeats the purpose...
People always join my D+/D/D- games on whatever ladder map I create the lobby on. Often times they just ask "4 players?", "where are spawn locations?" if they don't know the map.
But that was when iCCup had 1000+ active users on... nowadays we have like 400
On July 14 2012 01:37 ninazerg wrote: The most god-awful maps that somehow became popular are:
Python Heartbreak Ridge Tau Cross
If someone offers to play these maps, just say no.
what? tau and HBR are great maps. Tau is the best snow map ever invented yo. HBR was also an amazing map.
I think Python is the only stupid map that became popular.
I feel claustrophobic playing on HBR. The new HBR made the map slightly better, but still the map favors tons and tons of static defense, which makes the map horrid for Protoss, unless they go for some early game aggression - which brings me to my next qualm with HBR: it's so bad in the late game, that it's become a notorious cheese map.
Tau Cross kind of suffers from the same anti-Protoss syndrome, but for different reasons than HBR. Taking a third base against Terran or Zerg can be quite difficult because that base is wide-open for harassment. Plus, the cliffs make PvT even worse, because the wide area in the base sets up the Protoss for multiple drops that are just devastating. My diagnosis is that the Protoss can never feel safe about any of their bases at any time. Therefore, the only option is to go 10/15 gate and bust down the Terran, or bulldog them to death.
PvZ is just as bad, if not worse. The third base area is actually pretty easy for Zerg to defend, whereas it requires a massive number of cannons from the Protoss player to be safe. The drop distance and paths are usually very easy for the Zerg to exploit as well.
Doesn't even get me started on ZvT on Tau Cross. If I start thinking about it, I'll have nightmares.
Love me some great wall of china split map on HBR. :D
I should've known Nightmarjoo would take that as a chance to show off some of BWMN's maps xD. But yes, I love that there are those sick of Python and FS on TL. CardinalAllin has been making new team maps to replace BGH and hosting them but those I used to know that did the same for 1v1 maps (make and host new 1v1 maps) were either obliterated by the constant
EPT
Heartbreak Ridge
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