http://bbs.plu.cn/thread-2672545-1-1.html lol someone translated my translation of plu's event, and posted it on plu. oh good lord transla-ception. 悲剧啊居然有人在plu上翻译我翻译plu的， 真是翻译-ception 一直想在plu的BBS上作贴但是没时间上级 T_T 发的邮件没人理， 算了贴在这希望有人看到吧
important updates: This is going to be a continuous league, not a one-off, the community leaders have agreed to pledge 5000 rmb for the hosting of the next one after this one finishes. They are making it free for Ro32 players to compete in the next one (they are taking 20 rmb admission fees, a paltry <3.2 USD). They are still in the organization of donations / casting, I will try to get in touch with the people hosting it and see what responses I can get.
Some Chinese BW casters and community leaders are pooling together money themselves as well as community donations to host a "our starcraft league" tournament to honour the last OSL. The prize pool is only 8400 rmb (~1320 USD), the gold prize being 4000 rmb or ~628 USD. But it's attracted almost all of the Chinese progaming teams and figures (though they are not well known outside China, and even in its own community because of staggered growth). The tournament right now has finalized on its brackets, with 152 players competing in 32 groups.
On June 25 2012 23:22 2Pacalypse- wrote: And now the BW will be reborn in China. Looking forward to following the scene next 13 years on shitty 240p streams and commentating in language I don't understand!
Next broadast： Rescheduled broadcast June 28th 02:00 GMT (+00:00) Rescheduled matches (2) due to a conflict in Jaystar's schedule The.Jaystaryx (P) vs A.G=woailaopo (P) The.Jaystaryx (P) vs jxsa.sweety (Z) 叮当's stream: http://kan.sina.com.cn/u/2446697112
Introduction to the players tonight: The.Jaystaryx: Famous former pro player "Marine King/Tyrant" Jaystar, famous for his aggressive play and strong macro. Has made many instructional videos to help the community and is well recieved by Starcraft fans. Has been with teams DB., JnSx, [AT]. League record: 150 wins 15 loss Win-rate 89.82%. http://www.liansai.net/player_detail.aspx?base_id=40 4th place SC4All Stamina 1st place MeasterCup Hubei 1st place IEFBeijing 3rd place Wcg China final 1st place ChangSha 5.1 Philip Platform Game 3rd place HuNan CEG 4th place ShangHai XuHuiGame 4th place CKCG BeiJing
A.G=woailaopo: Former famous pro-gamer "woailaopo" (I love (my) wife), held impressive records during 2005-10 in offline and online tournaments, and competed on the level with pro-players. has impressive ability, recently has stopped playing Starcraft for more than a year, attending the tournament for some nostalgia and fun. League record: 96 wins 31 loss Win-rate 75% http://www.liansai.net/player_detail.aspx?base_id=74 1st place 2006 Guangxi FeilongCup 1st place 2006 PLU GoldenRing 3rd place WCG 2007 Shanghai 2nd place PLU "10 years of starcraft" invitational 2nd place WCG 2009 Wuhan
JXSA.SWEETY: A new transfer from JXSA this season ”takeo“ zerg "Sweetie", don't misunderstand, "takeo" means he's good at fighting, 1v10 easy KO. League record: 19 win 5 loss win-rate 79/17%
(Vote): Yes, BW will live on in China (Vote): No, it won't reach the same level as KR (Vote): Too early to speculate
Poll: Would you donate / pay to see BW in China?
No as I don't pay to watch BW in KR. (29)
53%
Yes, but the amount will vary. (14)
25%
Yes, I'm all for it, anything to help the scene. (6)
11%
No, because the product is inferior to KR. (6)
11%
55 total votes
Your vote: Would you donate / pay to see BW in China?
(Vote): Yes, I'm all for it, anything to help the scene. (Vote): Yes, but the amount will vary. (Vote): No, because the product is inferior to KR. (Vote): No as I don't pay to watch BW in KR.
From 叮当哥 and 简单 (two community organizers), we are bringing you the first ever Chinese BW OSL (our starcraft league) singles league, with the goal of energizing Chinese BW scene, and giving chinese audiences their own BW SL, and to present the best live commentary and live reporting; to continue BW's development.
This SL season's champion prize money is 4000 rmb, the total prize pool being 8400 rmb (netizens have pledged 5670 rmb, the admission fees for players amounting to ~152*20 = 3040 rmb). All the information regarding the league's income and spendings I will post in the fifth post in this forum to ensure public transparency. We welcome public scruntiny. This league's prize pool is all donated from individual netizens, it makes me very emotional and thankful, the next season we will try our best to find sponsors to reach a sustaineable and progressive future for this league. 简单 and I organized this event not for monetary gain, but just so that BW can continue, we promise everyone with our personal integrity that not one cent will be taken by the organizers for personal gain.
The sign ups for this competition has stopped with the final figure being 152 participants, the sign ups are all players registered in the team league (STL). Looking at the list of participants, it's attracted and congregated almost all of the current Chinese BW pros, including many popular fan favorites and star players, like 迷糊, jaystar, fengzi, 雷车, 人皇雷雷, rushgoon天王, 有才, 战魂, 佳佳, 五竹, 跟大, AQ, tudou, jedi, SR, ZK, DOLL, 猜猜, 中国星际女子第一人琪琪, etc. And also almost every major team's >18 and >16 mainline-up players are participating (the chinese "iccup" has rankings, with >15 being close to semi-pro level), the quantity and quality of the competition is the highest of any Chinese league to date.
This Chinese BW OSL SL is planned to be an ongoing league, the goal is to encourage the present growth and development of the Chinese BW scene / business. Giving players the motivation to practice, and allowing the audiences and fans to watch spectacular BW games. The players who make it to the Ro32 of this league will be admitted free of charge for the next one, to improve and attract higher skill leveled players in the competition. For the next season 老妖 has promised that no matter what happens he pledges 5000 rmb to the prize pool as operation costs, so everyone can rest assured that this competition will definitely be continued.
The matches after the Ro16 will all be broadcasted with live commentary, the commentary group consists of 叮当，简单 and 肉鱼. From the Ro32 and group preliminaries we will also pick games of groups containing fan favorites to broadcast live. We believe that we can bring to you spectacular live broadcasted matches. The details of the live broadcast and dates will be posted by me on major Starcraft forums, and on our Chinese OSL fan club ( QQ: 93784006) group, we welcome any help and attention that everyone has given to spread the word.
BW is a game that has stayed with us for more than 10 years, and brought us countless beautiful, sad, happy, and bitter memories. It contains many memories from our adolescence and youth, from the mystique and curiosity of high school days, to the persistance and love of university days, to the remembrance and perserverance of working days. She is like our wives, regardless of how many times we left her, regardless of what you were doing out there, as long as you were willing to return, you didn't need to spend anything, she was always waiting for you there, with the same warmth, passion, and beauty as before.
From the A moves of defiler + zergling, the adorable twists of the hydralisk, the unique micro of mutalisks, the lock downs of lurker formations, the cloning of scourge, the broodling and ensnares of the queen. From the sad heroism of the zealot running into mine fields, the cool of dragoons minesweeping without detection, the cold and lonesomeness of the dark templar, the elegance of storming formations, the harassment of shuttle+reaver, the spectacle of corsair dwebs, the excitement of seeing cloned arbiter recalls. From the love between marines and medics, the strength and dedication of the SCV, the "bugged" (strength of) tank formations, harassment of vultures, volleys of goliath against intercepters, the movement of irradiated science vessels killing drones, the spectacle of yamato cannons from battle cruisers, and that signature "nuclear launch detected" from the ghost; they all send chills down our spines.
Starcraft has brought us too many and too many beautiful things to this day, maybe he (it) can only become a legend, it can't be profitable for the gaming companies, the medias, and the clubs any more. But we can still love her, we can still come home and watch live broadcasts, let off some steam and banter, and enjoy ourselves, we can still with a few friends and girl friends come online and chat (bm) and play Starcraft, we can still jump around community groups during the day and plan for BO3's at night. As long as we don't give up, Starcraft has never left us, as long as we can't let go, Starcraft will always be there, never leaving us.
A month ago when I started commentating the STL as a local event, I was temporarily put in the position of the director (main caster), and I discovered that everyone liked to listen to my commentary. I went to look at the VOD's rebroadcast and I discovered that China's Starcraft can be just as spectacular and emotional if not more than Korea's Starcraft. As long as we work hard, Starcraft still has infinite draws and potentials for us to discover, Starcraft will continue to be with us like our lover.
I and 简单 used a morning to plan the competition, the afternoon to post it, and at night we've already recieved the strong support and sponsorship of the broad netizen community. We collected the prize pool for the contest in 1 day, and the continual support and funds is not ceasing. I felt very emotional, and I saw the hope for Chinese starcraft, and I felt everyone's along with our love for Starcraft. Maybe nowadays the post-90s (a term for people born after 1990) are all playing new spectacular games, and when starcraft is mentioned, they would think that it's an old and outdated thing. When we hear this we don't argue any more, we just laugh. To us, starcraft is not a game, more like a family member or relative, it brings to us mundane warmths and comforts. We need to take care of her, protect her, and never abandon her.
Tournament structure: 152 players in 32 groups. Information on players (still in chinese): + Show Spoiler +
战队 报名队员 种族 介绍 联赛战绩 FoR FoR..jmdjj P 战队中流砥柱，各项对抗均处于准职业，高手 42胜4负1平胜率89.36% FoR..jois P 时强时弱的选手，实力完全看当天的心情情况 15胜1负胜率93.75% FoR..Jmjm P 战队中流砥柱，实力非常nice，但是有特殊对抗。 7胜4负胜率63.64% FoR..186 P 孩子他爸，来送报名费的 5胜6负胜率45.45% FoR..gg3suo P 三所，来送报名费的 5胜5负胜率50.00% FoR..Misu P 传奇男，来送报名费的 24胜19负胜率55.81% FoR..CQLQ Z 疯子，前职业。目前国内最顶尖的一批选手 25胜4负胜率86.21% FoR..qiqi Z 七七，疯子他老婆，星际圈第一美腿+实力女 0胜2负胜率0.00% FoR..Bomb T 爆炸小王子，非常有实力，但最近忙工作，疏练习 44胜37负2平胜率53.01% FoR..xiaozi Z 小子，国内老牌选手。星际圈老骨头 23胜8负胜率74.19% FoR..loveyp P 前SCI战队打手，pvt pvp lv18+ pvz lv17+ 67胜42负胜率61.47% FoR..Pige P 前职业选手pipilu，拥有三大菊花 65胜10负胜率86.67% FoR..sack P plu交往帝 0胜2负胜率0.00% FoR..oldpig Z 老牌实力虫族vs17+ 81胜32负胜率71.68% FoR..HaNeul P 中国留学生在韩国 17+ 39胜34负胜率53.42% FoR..Foru T foru，国内老牌选手。星际圈老骨头 49胜26负胜率65.33% NT NT..008 P NT..805 P lv12 28胜5败胜率84.85% Sun Sun=lingyun T 18+ 90后第一T 23胜10负胜率69.70% Sun=shit P 17+ PVT猛男 7胜6负胜率53.85% Sun=agony_gg P 18+ 联赛 2:1 BOMB 8胜4败胜率66.66% Sun=HS_one P 现役职业级选手 58胜10负胜率85.29% Sun=aystar Z 前职业级选手 55胜22负胜率71.43% Sun=ly Z WCG 2010成都赛区第二 两次击败天王 46胜13负胜率77.97% Sun=open Z 90后联盟负责人 =Sun=现任管家 打酱油虫族 11胜14败胜率44.00% Sun=busterran t 目测有成为中国第一T潜质 LV19 18胜16负胜率52.94% Sun=wwl p 老牌猛男 路过星际十余年 LV17+ 5胜1负胜率83.33% Sun=sckkk t 曾经的=Sun=第一T 现在的炮灰 45胜49负胜率47.37% Sun=HSJ z 让他们见识下星际1老人的实力 55胜27负胜率65.48% Sun=LFkkk z 曾经的职业级，现在实力不清楚,SCKKK的师傅 5胜1负胜率83.33% Frds FRDS_lcydh P 泛亚太战术大师人称东海锅（vs17+） 62胜34败 胜率64.58% FRDS_Te_kunhu P FRDS最强一哥完爆mihu没商量（vs17+） 19胜6败 胜率64% FRDS_SKTelecomBisu P 新生代神族新皇，超神基友。（vs17+） 16胜22败 胜率42.11% FRDS__An_forgret P 最具想象力神族新星，300+的APM让甲虫飞翔（vs17+） 28胜14败 胜率65.12% FRDS_feng P 最帅神族高手，让亲们知道：星际的实力和长相成反比，是错误的。。（vs17+） 88胜31败 胜率73.95% FRDS_ZP P 上古人称瑞哥哥，如今人叫ZP大爷。上古神王，格格三盾流开山鼻祖。。（vs17+） 118胜40败胜率73.75% FRDS_999 Z FRDS新生代年轻虫族的代表，代表了FRDS的虫族力量（vs17+） 63胜44败 胜率58.88% FRDS_piguP 屁股虽大，何人敢操？FRDS屁股威武。（vs17+） 20胜21败 胜率48.78% FRDS_doll Z FRDS的绝对BOSS，CZY第一届比赛冠军，如今复出，只为证明，FRDS的Z依然最强（vs17+） 38胜6败 胜率86.36% FRDS_Colonel (ZK) Z 前职业选手，湖南双煞之一，ZDY好基友，今日虫王重出江湖，谁与争锋？（vs16+） 90胜20败 胜率82.46% FRDS_sky P FRDS刘德华带着华丽的意识空降FRDS，期待爆发。。。（vs17+） 15胜10败 胜率60% PSER=ALL ZR T 什么都不会，只会玩弄一手T V ALL，无法失败 24胜8负 胜率75% PSER=my1hero P 捡漏王子，不值一提，不知怎么就全胜了 29胜8负 胜率78.38% PSER=_die_jaedong Z 解冻在此，谁敢放肆！ 12胜1负 胜率92.31% PSER=STILL P 慢手意识流大师 5胜11负，胜率31.25% PSER=PS_Royalabbey P PS战队星际导师，仁义无双猴老师 34胜26负胜率56.67% NJ NJ_vulture P 雷本，前职业选手，宝刀未老。 92胜19败胜率82.88% NJ_haha168 P 星际老玩家，经验老道，基本功扎实。 87胜26败胜率76.99% NJ_julyzergmbc P 这个人表示他是来夺冠的。 33胜21败胜率61.11% NJ_fallares P 一手抱孩子一手打星际。打法风骚。 12胜15败胜率42.86% NJ_highdark P 星际菜鸟，本次抱着娱乐的态度来参加的。 48胜23败胜率67.61% NJ_zhudan2hao P 曾经虐过N多大牌的老玩家。 39胜28败胜率58.21% NJ_iloveyouwxy P 曾用ID:SVS_Protossgi和By_1987 9胜6败胜率60.00% NJ_xiaoxiaoma T TVZ职业级。其他对抗18+ 31胜10败胜率75.61% NJ_rushgoon T 天王，前职业选手，宝刀未老。 97胜16败胜率85.84% NJ_Bigbang_High P 高富帅，星际猛，经常斩杀各种大牌。 9胜6负胜率60% NJ_fengzi T 南京新生代人族小天王，潜力无限。 3胜4负胜率42.83% NJ_StoRm4ever Z 导游虫族，ZVP是他的拿手好戏。 15胜12败胜率55.56% =A.ce=miracle86 Z 18+ 洗头哥 A组联赛主力 40胜15败 =A.ce=278899546200 T 18+ A组联赛主力 11胜15败 =A.ce=7pilong T 18+ A组联赛主力 4胜4败 =A.ce=CrAzy_jiaj P lv20的桑搜 打法暴力刚猛 14胜9败 =A.ce=EZzt P 18+ A组联赛主力 10胜19败 =A.ce=ace_bolete P 18+ 大牌粉碎机 9胜6败 =A.ce=zg_zhanhun P lv20的桑搜 打法暴力刚猛 22胜3败 [B.D] [B.D]=ilovelxx P bd领队兼选手，大内总管 21胜15败胜率58.33% [B.D]=Key P 前sun俱乐部练习生，psc3亚军 36胜13败胜率73.47% [B.D]=QingFeng P 90后新生代新星，bd队内中坚 14胜10败胜率58.33% [B.D]=117 P 老牌星际选手，前yh_117 42胜26败胜率61.76% [B.D]=HFALLCAIB T 传奇选手，90后第一T，fenix_king哥 8胜15败胜率34.78% [B.D]=sAfArlsT P bd第一认真选手，笼本座 16胜3败胜率84.21% [B.D]=_RandomZerg Z bd第一Z，宇宙第一zvp(比肩自杀哥) 12胜5败胜率70.59% [B.D]=s2zerg Z 传说中为蓝猫配音的演员，葛平 11胜14败胜率44.00% [B.D]=jae_oz Z apm350+，解冻的忠实Fans，全面型新人 7胜0败胜率100.00% GP).xiaomanyao P GP猛将之一，为GP夺冠立下赫赫战绩 59胜30负胜率66.29% GP).toona P 归来的猛男 65胜25负胜率70.45% GP).Py_shimly P 曾经的卖淫已经成长为嫖客 34胜6负胜率85% GP).Zdy Z GP一哥！中国一哥！ 99胜30负胜率76.74% GP).Startoss P 无敌PvP 67胜37负胜率64.42% GP).UDPzerg Z 原职业选手Jedi 93胜23负胜率80.17% GP).aoao P pvp pvt尚可 不会pvz lv16 99胜54负 胜率64.29% GP).OnlyCC T 星际元老 98胜48负 胜率67.12% GP).guoqian P GP猛将之一，为GP夺冠立下赫赫战绩 36胜15负胜率70.59% HisT=Pro_991 T HisT战队一线主力，T/P双休，警察人族 25 胜7败胜率78.13% HisT=xiaoliao P 一路跟随HisT从FSS20打到STL24A组主力 28胜9败胜率75.68% HisT=Li_WJ P 杰伦哥无疑成为HisT全能主力之一 35胜33败胜率 50.72% HisT=china_ppp P 中国3P，HisT一线主力P 56胜 45败胜率 54.90% Hist=CN_jiaozhu T HisT战队新兴人族 2 胜11败胜率14.29% HisT=Micheal Z Kid，曾经中国最猛的Zerg之一！ 62胜28败胜率 68.89% JXSA_Smile P 人称职业7，其实就是个菜鸟，不过比赛运气有点好！ 82胜38负胜率68.33% JXSA_lower T 传说中的mihu锅，非韩第一T，前STL个人联赛冠军，实力不用多做介绍了，这届也是冠军的有力争夺者 49胜5负胜率90.74% JXSA_YiTouNiuA T 一头菜牛，江西的稳定送分的，不过最近貌似勤加操练了一番，2天内可以从13级打到18级，牛锅的春天到来了吗？！ 29胜24负胜率54.72% JXSA_卖血玩星际 P lsu主群的四大恶人之首MX，拿过LSU的亚军，实力杠杠的，就是比赛心态不太好，调整好心态，MX就是中国的BISU！ 34胜53负胜率38.64% JXSA_tongtonggirl P 巨大优势不胜女，别人让3NM，胜率也是非常之低的，从来都是笔记本无外接键盘玩SC，OB无数盘，水平从未提高过。 5胜1负胜率71.43% JXSA_zergling Z JXSA的楷模兼联赛管理人员兼2个孩子他爸兼无线加班虫族，看到他，你就知道什么叫热爱星际，当然实力其实是菜逼，但是比赛威武霸气，这是为什么呢？！ 133胜46负胜率71.43% JXSA SWEETY Z 本届转来JXSA的虫族猛男小甜甜，您别误会，猛男的意思是他打架比较猛，1V10轻松KO！ 19胜5负胜率79.17% JXSA.Reinforced P 超神朱晓，相声界星际打的最好的，星际界相声说的最好的选手！ 48胜17负胜率73.85% Extra ExTra.lianxu T 一位实力大于名气的选手，拿过遥远YSL个人赛亚军，比赛型选手，联赛 44胜23负胜率65.67% ExTra.yy_mihun P P 16+的小强，有着对星际无比的热情，超越的未来之星 联赛 1胜2负胜率33.33% F.Y F.Y=superfengzi T FY人族双子星，疯狂练习型选手代表 52胜33负胜率61.18% F.Y=aqiang T FY人族双子星，天赋意识操作型全方位猛男 37胜7负胜率82.22% F.Y=baqi Z 本来是特殊对抗选手，此次参赛因为规则用Z 16胜3负胜率84.21% F.Y=24 P FY新人，进步神速，曾获LSU亚军 2胜3负胜率40% F.Y=_Lyang Z FY当家ZERG，多次获得线下赛名次。 39胜12负胜率76.47% F.Y=BETTER P P FY一哥，电报神族，双手暴兵流始祖 25胜13负胜率65.79% F.Y=CQ_DACAIB P FY上赛季最佳新人，5tiaoyu爱徒 5胜2负胜率71.43% F.Y=5TIAOYU P FY当家神族，国内顶尖PVZ选手 38胜13负胜率74.51% The.Jaystaryx P 前职业，The不可缺少的相声得分选手 150胜15负胜率89.82% The.aPriL T The第一浮夸选手，顶峰时候也是职业级别 38胜14负胜率73.08% The.weifeng009 P The著名狗哥，The第一风骚选手。。人风骚，星际也风骚。 59胜30负胜率66.29% The.chanyF T The第一非主流，海龟，实力很强，不知道现在怎么样 40胜22负胜率64.52% The.PrinceOfStar P The偶像选手佳哥，是The众多屌丝的偶像，著名矮富丑 69胜10负胜率87.34% The.WK P The一哥，实力派选手，得分主力，尽管常常捡漏 29胜13负胜率69.05% The.onlyzerg Z The曾经ICC打到A的霸气虫族，最高纪录一场星际摆了几百个BC 59胜38负胜率60.82% OBO OBO=Hoejja Z oBo金牌领队，STL24成功帮助oBo保级我是星际猛男却是联赛炮灰 8胜10负胜率44.44% OBO=kobe Z 号称战胜过雷车的男人，赛季结束被我挖来到oBo为oBo下赛季征战 7胜5负胜率58.33% OBO=akjh999 Z oBo继CK走后第一Zerg，吹牛实力大于星际实力，被称为高调吹牛男 37胜25负胜率58.73% OBO=woshishui P oBo名副其实的一哥，本赛季以11胜2负的强大实力守护着oBo 55胜20负胜率73.33% OBO=LP_once P oBo90后选手之一，属于低调实力男，经常成为oBo的大心脏 25胜14负胜率64.10% OBO=Lenovo P 子弹哥以优美的歌喉和霸气的长相一直成为oBo的守护神，iccup也是上过前10的男人 23胜23负胜率50% OBO=By_LaTa T oBo T线的主力打手 经常上演击杀猛男的好戏 TVT TVZ TVP都很稳定 7胜14负胜率33.33% OBO=BlueHigh P oBo最强嫖妓神，神族里面高调吹牛男的代表，号称pvp无敌，却经常输给各种猛B 18胜4负胜率81.82% oBo=iloveucm z OBO=woshipianzi Z oBo联赛末期的一大定心丸 赛季末期以联赛5连胜完美收尾 强大的zvp成为了保证 7胜6负胜率53.85% HS81 [HS81]Agile AQ T LV18+ 对抗全面 非职业前三T应该木问题 60胜14败81.08% [HS81]lovemusic MM P lv18 PLU五竹大婶 81交际之花 28胜8败胜率77.78% [HS81]Ningbo Terran T lv16 曾季后赛日过雷雷 10胜6败胜率62.50% [HS81]278346174 Z 火焰 lv17 勤奋Z 无脑暴兵 4胜3败胜率57.14% [HS81]Lmarlboro T 法本 练习菜比赛强类型选手 比赛猥琐猥琐 15胜5败胜率75.00% [HS81]Logo P 81BUG 20块钱中国SC前192 值！ 1胜1败胜率50.00% D7 D7_jiaotou T A组GP 10大主力之一，BUG一样的TVP 4胜6败胜率40.00% D7_liantaiye Z D7 TOP ZERG 9胜5败胜率64.29% D7_shenchaguan P D7 TOP PROTOSS 8胜4败胜率66.66% D7_dul1dul T D7 TOP TERRAN 3胜1败胜率75.00% D7_xiaozi_920 P 这个是赞助商哦 5胜3败胜率62.50% Love love_273 P LV18+，PVT尤其BUG，擅长骚扰运营，操作细腻 46胜，21负，胜率68% love_skyhaolan P LV18+,APM110，PVP无甲虫流，爆兵猛男 42胜，20负，胜率69% love_tudou P LV18+，APM120,曾BO5击败多名职业选手 34胜，19负，胜率65% love_Heillos T 前中国星际第一人，实力不解释 182胜，55负，胜率76.8% love_dust10 P LV18+，放弃特殊对抗，来送报名费，精神可嘉 44胜，19负，胜率69% CHZ =CHZ=jiaobaozai T 娇娇美女，身怀BB擅长2V1,SC 3年玩家，2年联赛 重在参与，乐在其中。LV13实力 4胜6负胜率40% newf New.F)xiaocui T 继ZZR之后New.F)又一猛T，，也算是回归队员，原FS三大打手之首，目前未婚，有意者可面试 24胜19负 55.81% Max Max..lovexiaoppp Z 猛将虫族 12胜6负 胜率66.67% Max..qeexiong T 中国的mind 17胜18负胜率48.57% Max..DJ_evan p 前ter主力大手 26胜11负胜率70.27% AG A.G=Rybak_Oah T T 湖南湘西人 先后效力于银河 xmu NCSA STOP等A组顶尖战队 52胜42负55.32% A.G=shiftzerg P P 菜1练习帝，平均每天可以打30盘以上的星际。不过由于智商年龄的问题，导致实力并不出众。最高打到过18级，一般在17级左右徘徊，以上实力描述仅限斗魂。 18胜19败47.37% A.G=woailaopo P P 05-10年期间一直在各大线下及线上赛中与职业选手同场竞技不落下风，11 22均具有不俗实力，目前大概有一年以上不碰星际，参加比赛来打一下酱油。成绩： 2006 广西飞龙杯星际冠军 2006 PLU黄金魔戒全国总冠军 WCG2007 上海赛赛区季军 2007年PLU星际十年最佳拍档超级争霸赛 亚军 WCG2009 武汉赛区亚军 96胜31负胜率75.00% =A.G=angel~kiss P 05年加入AG,=A.G=中生代选手的杰出代表，曾经2010年-2011年长期在菜1练习，实力在17 18左右徘徊，目前已经疏于练习。 15胜15负胜率51.72% =A.G=tostar T 联赛百场老将，STL16以前属于顶尖高手联赛拿分主力，其后开始娱乐星际，虽然目前实力酱油，但是联赛一直保持出勤，对星际的热情持续至今，目前实力 LV15。 35胜32负胜率52.24% =A.G=OopsJr P STL18开始领队，STL20开始担当主力，卖淫两届后STL22开始稳定拿分，STL22 6胜1负STL23 6胜1负 STL24 9胜5负，是STL为数不多的实力领队之一。 26胜18负胜率59.09%
1. Game version: Starcraft Brood War v1.13f 2. Sign ups: All teams participating in the STL are recommended to sign up, the players must have played in a league before. Players who have not submitted a replay for STL24 must submit a replay. Replays must be over 15 minutes long (10 minutes for ZvZ), every team will submit its participants by the team captain by league ID, race, and admission fee (20 rmb each). All participants must join the Chinese Starcraft OSL league group, the group number will be given by the team captains, this must be done before the 26th of June. 3. League brackets / rules: The league is divided into offline preliminaries, group preliminaries, and the official league. 4. Match rules: 1v1, melee or use map settings, speed: fastest. 5: Match length: Till a winner is determined, if there is a period of time with out conflict and the winner can not be determined, the the referee can call a re-game. 6: Victory condition: Elimination or until opponent surrenders, you must use the race you registered with, else it's an immediate loss. 7: Prize pool: First place: 4000 rmb Second place: 1500 rmb Third place: 800 rmb Fourth place: 500 rmb Top 8 (excluding top 4): 200 rmb each Top 16 (excluding top 8): 100 rmb each Top 32 (excluding top 16): Free admission next OSL Maps: Bo3 of STL_Soul_of_Fighter_1.3 (Fighting Spirit), STL_Jade_1.0.scx, STL_Sniper_Ridge_1.0, (The maps are virtually identical to the iccup versions) Bo5 and Bo7 adds: STL_CircuitBreakers_1.0, STL_Icarus_1.1 STL_Ground_Zero_1.2,STL_La_Mancha_1.1 (All players must share and download the map packs from the League group, the maps used must be the ones included) 8. After a match ends players must co-operate with referees to examine the match result and save the match's replay / Vods, if nothing is recorded, then the referee will give a warning or give an automatic loss. 9. Intentionally use a game bug will be given a warning or an automatic loss. Any action which is ruled as destroying the fairness of the competition, or intentionally utilizing a bug, and is confirmed to be true, the players will be given a warning or given an automatic loss. This includes but is not exclusive to: (1) Allied mines: You can not ally with your opponent during the match. (2) Flying drone: The zerg drone unit is a ground unit, it can not leave the ground, it destroys the game's balance. So it's prohibited. (3) Lurker burrow bug: Intentionally burrowing the lurker under structures (4) High templar bug: Protoss players flying the high templar (5) Worker bug: Selecting a worker carrying minerals or vespene gas, floating the command center, and pressing C to return minerals and making the SCV by pass a blocked path. (6) SCVs congregating on vespene geiser to attack (7) Other than these bugs, if the referee finds a player uses bugs that are against the game's settings, will according to the situation give a warning or an automatic loss. 10. Disconnects (1) Disconnections is defined as a disconnection between players due to a problem or accident in the system, network, computer, power source, or other accidents. (2) Intentional disconnection: According to the judgement of the referee, the person who intentionally disconnects a match will be given an automatic loss. (3) Procedure for disconnects: -1 If the game length is <3 minutes, re-game -2 If the game length is >3 minutes: A: If both sides agree, re-game B: If both sides can not come to an agreement, then the referee will decide the results of the match by the recording C: If the referee can not decide a clear winner, the both sides must agree to a re-match, else it counts as a disqualification (surrender) 11. Unfair competition procedure: An unfair competition is any of the following situations, the referee will give warning or automatic loss as punishment (1) Using any map hacks (2) Intentional disconnects (3) Using any set up (computer, mouse, keyboard, etc) which is beyond the regulations and standards (4) Unnecessary chatter during the game 12. Any time during the match, the referee can call out unfair competition procedures. 13. Regarding sniping or cheating or using fake ID's / playing for other people, we have a professional league anti-cheat team, if it is discovered, then the player is disqualified and banned for life from the OSL, and the associated team will be fined 500 rmb; if the team refuses to pay the fine, then all of its participants will be disqualified.
As made necessary by the league, team captains will form a referee group and help with organizing the group matches, all team captains must attend each day's events at 7:30 AM and check in, and create in advance player discussion groups. If the team captain can not arrive on time due to extenuating circumstances, it needs to be forwarded in advance to the organizing group to be excused so that other referees can be planned. Before each match starts, each group's organizing team will plan a referee who puts the player's QQ's into the group's discussion QQ group. (QQ is like messenger with some facebook functions in China), every match starts at 20:00, players must find the referee and check-in by 19:40. If the players and referees can not be contacted by 20:30, then the matches that night are forfeited. Non-broadcasted matches can be planned in advance, if you choose to do so the referee must be told in advance. If both players agree, the match can also be postponed, but must be played with in 48 hours of the scheduled play time; if the game is not completed, then the player who suggested the event be postponed will be counted as a forfeit. The match platform is VS. the rooms can be organized and agreed upon by the players, the host will be the member with the higher ID in the group, for example A1 vs A3 (A3 will host); When both players enter the host room, then a check must be done to ensure that the player is the correct participant, match IDs must be identical to the league ID and QQ group ID. After the match, the winner will send the group referee the replay (Replay format is: Group ID number vs Group ID number_game number. e.g. A1vsA2_1.rep) and inform them of the result; the loser is recommended to keep the replay and double check if the winner cheated or was a sniper / playing a different account. Any problems that occur during the match should be reported to the corresponding referees, the referee team will punish according to the match rules. If the problem is not included with in the rule parameters, then the organizing group will discuss and judge internally. (Special notice: During offline group preliminaries, if players play out spectacular matches they can recommend it to the organizing group, which will then select games for the broadcasting group to cast)
All participants will be grouped into the following 32 groups A a B b C c D d E e F f G g H h I i J j K k L l M m N n O o P p (upper and lower case distinguished) Every group has 5 people, numbered 1-5, the group will play single round group robin Bo3 (similar to Ongamnet SL Ro16), the maps are: STL_Soul_of_Fighter_1.3, STL_Jade_1.0.scx, the first map is STL_Soul_of_Fighter_1.3, the loser picks the next map (no repeats). 2 people out of each group will qualify according to score, if the score is the same, it will be determined in the following order: 1. head to head. 2. Wins 3. losses. If the score is still equal after these rulings, then a tie-breaker is given, the tie breaker is Bo3 single elimination.
The offline group preliminaries last 2 days, played on June 30th 20:00 CST and July 7th 20:00 CST June 30th: Each group plays matches 1 vs 2,3 vs 4,1 vs 5,3 vs 5,2 vs 4 July 7th: Each group plays matches 1 vs 3, 2 vs 5,1 vs 4,2 vs 3 4 vs 5 The 64 players who qualify will be numbered 1 and 2 based on their place in the group. E.G. A1, A2
The 64 players who qualify out of the top 2 of each group will be organized into 16 groups as follows: A：A1 a2 B1 b2 B：A2 a1 B2 b1 C：C1 c2 D1 d2 D：C2 c1 D2 d1 E：E1 e2 F1 f2 F：E2 e1 F2 f1 G：G1 g2 H1 h2 H：G2 g1 H2 h1 I：I1 i2 J1 j2 J：I2 i1 J2 j1 K：K1 k2 L1 l2 L：K2 k1 L2 l1 M：M1 m2 N1 n2 N：M2 m1 N2 n1 O：O1 o2 P1 p2 P：O2 o1 P2 p1(upper and lower case distinguished) The first two rounds of games will be played on July 7th 20:00 CST, the last round played on July 8th 20:00 CST Each group will play double elimination Bo3, the maps are: STL_Soul_of_Fighter_1.3, STL_Jade_1.0.scx, the first map is STL_Soul_of_Fighter_1.3, the loser picks the next map (no repeats). The 32 players who qualify will be ordered by their records (2 wins 0 loss will be numbered 1). E.G. A1, A2
The top two players out of each Group in the group preliminaries will qualify for the official matches, a total of 32 players, who will be divided into the following 8 groups. A：A1 C2 C1 A2 B：B1 D2 D1 B2 C：E1 G2 G1 E2 D：F1 H2 H1 F2 E：I1 K2 K1 I2 F：J1 L2 L1 J2 G：M1 O2 O1 M2 H：N1 P2 P1 N2 The first two rounds of matches will be played on July 21st, 20:00 CST, and the last round on July 22nd, 20:00 CST The 16 players who qualify will be ordered by their records (2 wins 0 loss will be numbered 1). E.G. A1, A2 The Ro16 (tournament structure single elimination) will be played according to the broadcasting schedule, right now set to be the Friday, Saturday, Sunday of each week. Format for Ro16:
Deciding rights and management rights are owned by the China OSL Organizing group, the group consists of: 简单：Responsible for planning and organizing of matches 叮当：Responsible for marketing, broadcasting, and support 肉鱼：Responsible for live broadcasting 小李：Responsible for anti-cheating and sniping / playing for other players 狗王：Responsible for judging the outcome of matches annd referees
On June 25 2012 23:01 Caihead wrote: also I think it's only fitting that player "FRDS_SKTelecomBisu" drops out of the offline prelims, seeing as this is an "OSL" after all.
On June 25 2012 23:01 Caihead wrote: also I think it's only fitting that player "FRDS_SKTelecomBisu" drops out of the offline prelims, seeing as this is an "OSL" after all.
And now the BW will be reborn in China. Looking forward to following the scene next 13 years on shitty 240p streams and commentating in language I don't understand!
wow nice! some known names on the foreign scene like fengzi, jaystar, StoRm4ever and FRDS_feng ( if it's jifeng ). Wonder where is Lx, Pj, LoveTT, ChinaTTT and others now.
important updates: This is going to be a continuous league, not a one-off, the community leaders have agreed to pledge 5000 rmb for the hosting of the next one after this one finishes. They are making it free for Ro32 players to compete in the next one (they are taking 10 rmb admission fees, a paltry <1.6 USD). They are still in the organization of donations / casting, I will try to get in touch with the people hosting it and see what responses I can get. Currently they are at 5720 rmb / 8400 that they need for this one.
I might translate the contents of the organizer's post in full if there is enough interest in it, it's quit a wall though and names are hard to sync up.
Lads and gents here is what I know about the current Chinese Scene
Recently, I have managed to get back on THE oldest computer from the family that still utilizes OS like Windows 97. Because of my curiosity, I wondered around and messed with it a bit there and there. Now you are probably thinking "What the hell does this have to do with StarCraft?". Well it turns out that my cousin that gave me the computer was a huge fan of the game and 9 years back, he used it for netsurfing and such. So on the favorite/bookmark folder, there were around 8 Chinese Websites dedicated to Brood War/WarCraft/Age of Empire and pretty much anything RTS related from the golden age. Most of the sites are unactive and some of them are even expired as its mod probably have decided to not pay for the fees anymore. This is some paleontology stuff right there.
However, on one of the Websites, it re-directed me to Playsc.com. Once the link appeared in front of me, the slogan reads "We only talk about SC". And I thought "Cool, something I can related to." Then as I navigated through the board, there was a thread that says "2012年中国星际争霸论坛水友赛" which vaguely translates to "2012 China StarCraft Team League" that goes by the abbreviation of STL. So then I digged deeper in this whole enigmatic presence of this league. And by my research, this is the 23rd 'STL' held to this day. The League spans for a total of 23 seasons.
It looks like the Chinese have their own system of hierarchy with the list provided. With a little bit more of digging closer to the core of the Interweb mantle, I have found another site with identical information pertaining to the league.
If you scroll down the link to the third section separated by the Blue Bars, you will find a subheading "STL战队专区", it means STL Team Forum. 30 teams are listed underneath. 30 is not a number that can go underestimated.
As I aforementioned their method of ranking and going back to the tournament page (first link), there are 5 teams currently listed on the Participation list (more Teams are being contacted). There is also a link on 八达 vs 遥远 (8da vs Yaoyun), looks like forum battles and 确定 means confirmed by the teams just below that.
On June 25 2012 23:22 2Pacalypse- wrote: And now the BW will be reborn in China. Looking forward to following the scene next 13 years on shitty 240p streams and commentating in language I don't understand!
Lads and gents here is what I know about the current Chinese Scene
Recently, I have managed to get back on THE oldest computer from the family that still utilizes OS like Windows 97. Because of my curiosity, I wondered around and messed with it a bit there and there. Now you are probably thinking "What the hell does this have to do with StarCraft?". Well it turns out that my cousin that gave me the computer was a huge fan of the game and 9 years back, he used it for netsurfing and such. So on the favorite/bookmark folder, there were around 8 Chinese Websites dedicated to Brood War/WarCraft/Age of Empire and pretty much anything RTS related from the golden age. Most of the sites are unactive and some of them are even expired as its mod probably have decided to not pay for the fees anymore. This is some paleontology stuff right there.
However, on one of the Websites, it re-directed me to Playsc.com. Once the link appeared in front of me, the slogan reads "We only talk about SC". And I thought "Cool, something I can related to." Then as I navigated through the board, there was a thread that says "2012年中国星际争霸论坛水友赛" which vaguely translates to "2012 China StarCraft Team League" that goes by the abbreviation of STL. So then I digged deeper in this whole enigmatic presence of this league. And by my research, this is the 23rd 'STL' held to this day. The League spans for a total of 23 seasons.
It looks like the Chinese have their own system of hierarchy with the list provided. With a little bit more of digging closer to the core of the Interweb mantle, I have found another site with identical information pertaining to the league.
If you scroll down the link to the third section separated by the Blue Bars, you will find a subheading "STL战队专区", it means STL Team Forum. 30 teams are listed underneath. 30 is not a number that can go underestimated.
As I aforementioned their method of ranking and going back to the tournament page (first link), there are 5 teams currently listed on the Participation list (more Teams are being contacted). There is also a link on 八达 vs 遥远 (8da vs Yaoyun), looks like forum battles and 确定 means confirmed by the teams just below that.
You can check their level of play by watching the VOD.
All the chinese leagues and tournaments have been going on since forever, I just assumed that the community didn't have interest in it since I never see it mentioned so I never posted it.
On June 25 2012 23:22 2Pacalypse- wrote: And now the BW will be reborn in China. Looking forward to following the scene next 13 years on shitty 240p streams and commentating in language I don't understand!
So nothing will change?
btw, how can i take part in the next one?
hmmmm I don't know if they take non-chinese participants since no one has ever shown interest (to my knowledge) in these local tournaments... I will have to get back to you on that.
On June 25 2012 23:22 2Pacalypse- wrote: And now the BW will be reborn in China. Looking forward to following the scene next 13 years on shitty 240p streams and commentating in language I don't understand!
So nothing will change?
btw, how can i take part in the next one?
hmmm if u move to china maybe. the lag is just hard with china.and for both parts is hard. im sure they not want play an important match in extra high latency
i'm going to bed, update yall on this when i get the time to. other Chinese BW fans please stand up, I'm not familiar enough ironically with the Chinese scene to relate everything.
China has always been pretty active (much more so than the Western world) with regards to BW. I know PJ has played a few games recently against Mihu (who is supposedly very good) and convincingly defeated him. But I don't think the really good ex-pros are playing this game any more, which is understandable, given that they were/are all very old by progamer standards.
JXSA_lower looks to be mihu. He's a crazy ass 350 APM terran and I think he should be a favorite to win this since people like PJ and F91 don't appear to be playing.
I dont know if it's a matter of taste or China is just late on following the trend. Wc3, BW and AoE2 all have their own huge community there. But unlike Korean BW, which lives on their profesionalism and legacy, these games are popular in China just because of easy piracy, low system requirement and guess what, no one else playing them outside of the mainland. Think Im a lil bit offtopic lol /my2cent
It seems I have new quests to go on now. How can we popularize Chinese leagues among foreigners? If you can show me how to find dates for Chinese tournaments and streams I'll make LR threads and streams. Awesome BW initiative. So many people in China, this scene needs to surge. Then teams can hire Bisu :D
lmao I remember when I used to watch Chinese streams since they were the only stable ones years ago before the age of restreams, they had the best commentary...
On June 25 2012 23:22 2Pacalypse- wrote: And now the BW will be reborn in China. Looking forward to following the scene next 13 years on shitty 240p streams and commentating in language I don't understand!
China are good for picking up stuff that the western world no longer requires, like car companies and old computer games. I wouldnt want to live in a world without Volvo or BW; so gogo China!
On June 26 2012 00:28 Arceus wrote: I dont know if it's a matter of taste or China is just late on following the trend. Wc3, BW and AoE2 all have their own huge community there. But unlike Korean BW, which lives on their profesionalism and legacy, these games are popular in China just because of easy piracy, low system requirement and guess what, no one else playing them outside of the mainland. Think Im a lil bit offtopic lol /my2cent
Nah, they just really like good games, obviously
Glad to see the Chinese scene still going its way.
On June 26 2012 01:58 Shinespark wrote: I saw names like Bisu and Jaedong on the player list. Are those the real deal?
No I don't think so , just fans i'm sure. This is amazing for BW and I'm glad some community is putting forth all its effort to try to revive / keep BW alive.
On June 25 2012 23:22 2Pacalypse- wrote: And now the BW will be reborn in China. Looking forward to following the scene next 13 years on shitty 240p streams and commentating in language I don't understand!
everyone knows that anything besides that is blasphemy and not real bw
Not unwelcome, though. Pretty awesome, in fact. It'll probably take a year or three for Chinese pros to get up to the level we're used to, but this is the first really good news BW fans have had in a long time.
I wonder how many Koreans will move to China to play.
On June 25 2012 23:22 2Pacalypse- wrote: And now the BW will be reborn in China. Looking forward to following the scene next 13 years on shitty 240p streams and commentating in language I don't understand!
On June 26 2012 00:28 Arceus wrote: I dont know if it's a matter of taste or China is just late on following the trend. Wc3, BW and AoE2 all have their own huge community there. But unlike Korean BW, which lives on their profesionalism and legacy, these games are popular in China just because of easy piracy, low system requirement and guess what, no one else playing them outside of the mainland. Think Im a lil bit offtopic lol /my2cent
Yup. No one else besides a mere one billion mainlanders
For people who don't know any Chinese players, the Chinese Bnet attack was 1 of the most hilarious gaming show I've ever watched.
How big is the chinese scene ? How much money is that ( from a chinese perspective, i know what 1300 $ is worth, ) ? Do they know there is a foreign scene ? Will they let us stream their event ?
It might not be as good right off the bat, but if this takes off, it'll definitely be *close* in terms of entertainment value. Didn't some Chinese player take off a game from Bisu at a WCG? (And he almost won another one too)
On June 26 2012 04:42 doktorLucifer wrote: It might not be as good right off the bat, but if this takes off, it'll definitely be *close* in terms of entertainment value. Didn't some Chinese player take off a game from Bisu at a WCG? (And he almost won another one too)
On June 26 2012 04:42 doktorLucifer wrote: It might not be as good right off the bat, but if this takes off, it'll definitely be *close* in terms of entertainment value. Didn't some Chinese player take off a game from Bisu at a WCG? (And he almost won another one too)
If Korea dumps BW, and China picks it up, I'd be okay with that. More money, more people, growing economy, and they like foreigners way more than Koreans do. I'd actually like this quite a lot.
there needs to be a thread with all the details about the Chinese BW scene, seeing as none of us know what the hell is going on lol ... whoever does it will be much appreciated
On June 26 2012 05:27 [Aot]_Aether wrote: If Korea dumps BW, and China picks it up, I'd be okay with that. More money, more people, growing economy, and they like foreigners way more than Koreans do. I'd actually like this quite a lot.
I think you're way too optimistic. This is to honour the last OSL, not re-create the industry in China.
EDIT: Shit. Like 5 seconds after reading the front page I wrote this, and somehow forgot the fact that it's continuous. Looks like I'm wrong!
On June 26 2012 05:27 [Aot]_Aether wrote: If Korea dumps BW, and China picks it up, I'd be okay with that. More money, more people, growing economy, and they like foreigners way more than Koreans do. I'd actually like this quite a lot.
I think you're way too optimistic. This is to honour the last OSL, not re-create the industry in China.
On June 26 2012 02:41 Doso wrote: Amateur chinese players to replace first-class professional korean players. Somehow I don't see it happening... Not even close to OSL.
On June 26 2012 05:27 [Aot]_Aether wrote: If Korea dumps BW, and China picks it up, I'd be okay with that. More money, more people, growing economy, and they like foreigners way more than Koreans do. I'd actually like this quite a lot.
I think you're way too optimistic. This is to honour the last OSL, not re-create the industry in China.
I think you're wrong. Some people have.. you know, a can-do attitude, and a fervor for what they love doing.
i just skimmed over and picked them two out(two of my favorite chinese players) are pj and lx retired for sure?
On June 25 2012 23:24 Artunit wrote: wow nice! some known names on the foreign scene like fengzi, jaystar, StoRm4ever and FRDS_feng ( if it's jifeng ). Wonder where is Lx, Pj, LoveTT, ChinaTTT and others now.
i think LoveTt/ChinaTTT are playing SC2 now, I know Love is i saw him on some SC2 tournament shit a while back
On June 25 2012 23:22 2Pacalypse- wrote: And now the BW will be reborn in China. Looking forward to following the scene next 13 years on shitty 240p streams and commentating in language I don't understand!
On June 26 2012 04:42 doktorLucifer wrote: It might not be as good right off the bat, but if this takes off, it'll definitely be *close* in terms of entertainment value. Didn't some Chinese player take off a game from Bisu at a WCG? (And he almost won another one too)
PJ? or was it F91?
I think it was PJ or LX.
PJ
No PJ almost took a game off Bisu. Bisu won that game one after PJ was so far ahead that no one thought he could lose this anymore.
On June 26 2012 04:42 doktorLucifer wrote: It might not be as good right off the bat, but if this takes off, it'll definitely be *close* in terms of entertainment value. Didn't some Chinese player take off a game from Bisu at a WCG? (And he almost won another one too)
PJ? or was it F91?
I think it was PJ or LX.
PJ
No PJ almost took a game off Bisu. Bisu won that game one after PJ was so far ahead that no one thought he could lose this anymore.
On June 26 2012 01:23 Chef wrote: Sounds awesome! Try to convince them to host their videos on youtube or something~
I'll definitely be watching if they can get VODs up.
China. Youtube. lol.
any way i'm back, gonna check on teh news, any one who is in china / knows chinese should pm me and see what infos we can dig up / talk to the organizers.
On June 26 2012 00:28 Arceus wrote: I dont know if it's a matter of taste or China is just late on following the trend. Wc3, BW and AoE2 all have their own huge community there. But unlike Korean BW, which lives on their profesionalism and legacy, these games are popular in China just because of easy piracy, low system requirement and guess what, no one else playing them outside of the mainland. Think Im a lil bit offtopic lol /my2cent
Yup. No one else besides a mere one billion mainlanders
For people who don't know any Chinese players, the Chinese Bnet attack was 1 of the most hilarious gaming show I've ever watched.
On June 26 2012 10:42 ]343[ wrote: Hmm, translating long articles might be made easier with Google docs or http://collabedit.com/ (multiple people -> faster)?
On June 26 2012 11:12 sh4w wrote: This is very exciting. It is almost like starting over but I think it will grow faster and catch up. Hoping China becomes the next big BW scene
I feel like BW is coming to the point now that it's a traditional game. Like shogi, go, or chess. It's interesting; at first it was just a computer game, most of which go away after a year or so. Afterwards, it became an esport. Then a cultural thing for Korea. Maybe the game has come full circle, and people can realize that it's more than just a computer game or a Korean quirk.
On June 26 2012 10:42 ]343[ wrote: Hmm, translating long articles might be made easier with Google docs or http://collabedit.com/ (multiple people -> faster)?
lol no i just do it in 10 mins =3
wow I'm jelly
maybe I should be better at chinese
edit: in the list of players... jay (=Jaystar?) 疯子 (= Fengzi who's known) ... 中国星际女子第一人琪琪 <-- "China's #1 female Starcraft player 琪琪
On June 26 2012 10:42 ]343[ wrote: Hmm, translating long articles might be made easier with Google docs or http://collabedit.com/ (multiple people -> faster)?
lol no i just do it in 10 mins =3
wow I'm jelly
maybe I should be better at chinese
edit: in the list of players... jay (=Jaystar?) 疯子 (= Fengzi who's known) ... 中国星际女子第一人琪琪 <-- "China's #1 female Starcraft player 琪琪
I haven't gotten to the names yet cause I'm a nub at chinese nicks
On June 26 2012 11:58 sluggaslamoo wrote: I hope this reinvigorates the BW, if only we could get the same thing to happen in the West
Thing is though, you probably can. There are still a bunch of pro-teams knocking around, the player pool might be smaller but there are community casters and more easily accessible online resources than China in some respects. Just need to pool together community donations and you are off, it's what the organizers of this tournament did.
Wtf, I didn't know about that. I would have donated to the prize pool otherwise.
That's great, I hope Legend takes a break from poker and plays BW again, but he doesn't seem to be in the list.
e: thanks a lot Caihead.
On June 26 2012 11:57 Chairman Ray wrote: woohoo! I have never seen Chinese players play, I wonder if they're almost as good as Korean players.
At the STX masters in Shanghai in 2010, Legend destroyed STX, including Bogus who would become STX's ace and good Proleague Terran a few months later. He only lost 3-2 in the finals in a very close PvP to Trap
That's when he humiliated Tossgirl on Match Point with a mass corsairs and d-web build.
Oh and Legend came to Korea in 2006 as a progamer. He didn't do much, but he eliminated ZergBong aka Nestea in sc2 in the Shinhan 3 OSL prelims haha
Now if we can watch the chinese starleague re-stream on tl.net it would be seriously good for us remaining bw fans and also thanks to cai head for translating the organization opening statement of the event .
On June 25 2012 23:22 2Pacalypse- wrote: And now the BW will be reborn in China. Looking forward to following the scene next 13 years on shitty 240p streams and commentating in language I don't understand!
On June 26 2012 12:06 Woj wrote: Wow, pretty interesting.
Now maybe all the big BW Koreans will just move to China rather than to SC2 =P
The Chinese scene is alot smaller in terms of sponsorship than Korea or even foreign, partially because it's not seen as a legitimate past time or occupation by people from the 60s-70s (who are parents now) who don't allow their children to participate in them. Mostly because of the stigma against video games in China as the educational system is so rigid and strict and it's seen as detrimental for children to play games even as a past time, most parents (including mine) restrict if not outright not allow their children to play games during elementary to high school. And usually they see it as a waste of time going into university / work life any ways. People who are fervant about video games in China usually have to seek solidarity in small privately financed groups that barely get by and hope for corporate sponsorship which is few and far between; they also have to do so against social pressures to conform to a traditional education / work process, video games is simply not seen as a legitimate way of life by traditional parents from the 60s to 70s.
Most of the community leaders are people born in the 80s who are much more open about video games as their exposure to them were in high school / university when they had some degree of freedom, rather than the post-90s crowd now who are restricted by an aware parent generation due to the increasing stress and competitiveness of chinese schools and exams.
In short I don't see how Chinese (mainland) Esports can take off in the same way as of now, most SC2 progamers you see from China are either from taiwan / hongkong / coastal cities where there is the financial back ground / luxury to pursue these past times, or live in relative hardship when compared with foreign progamers like the ones at EG. It's almost unthinkeable to have a team house in China if you are just starting out as a progamer, even now most of the recognized progamers play from their homes and their clan prescence is via online rather than via same physical location. There would need to be a change in public mentality against the stigma of gamers.
Also major korean BW players are all trying to switch over to SC2 for financial stability, China's esports market is so volatile due to stigmas, pirating (adding to the seeming illegitimacy), and lack of regulation. I don't see KR progamers risking it to expand in China, unfortunately.
That being said "real" chinese gamers, i.e. ones connecting to the scene rather than just playing single player games they pirated from the internet (not saying that there's anything wrong with that other than the pirating), are very fervent and go out of their way to make things like this possible. So there is hope for domestic growth.
I doubt China will become the next Korea of BW. Chinese people just doesn't like to play RTS, they would rather be playing locally developed three kingdom related RPGs, shitty local MMOs/WOW and Dota/Dota-esque games instead. The only time the chinese got into a RTS was Warcraft III but no body else play the game outside of China/Lyn anymore.
On June 26 2012 13:27 jimmydu444 wrote: I doubt China will become the next Korea of BW. Chinese people just doesn't like to play RTS, they would rather be playing locally developed three kingdom related RPGs, shitty local MMOs/WOW and Dota/Dota-esque games instead. The only time the chinese got into a RTS was Warcraft III but no body else play the game outside of China/Lyn anymore.
dahhhhhh chinese people play rts' quite alot too, they play local mmos and other games mainly because they are FREE not because of the genre.
WATCH the most refined sunken rushers in the world! SEE the largest monetary transfer from China to Korea in living memory! CELEBRATE the best game ever!
On June 26 2012 12:06 Woj wrote: Wow, pretty interesting.
Now maybe all the big BW Koreans will just move to China rather than to SC2 =P
I'm sure they are just salivating over that $600 first place.
On a serious note I wish efforts like this would have happened years ago and with a more open policy towards non-Chinese. As of now I can't really say I enjoy the thought of travelling 6 years into the past. It's like reading about the Cuban BW scene: incredibly interesting but ultimately doesn't affect me in the slightest.
On June 26 2012 13:27 jimmydu444 wrote: I doubt China will become the next Korea of BW. Chinese people just doesn't like to play RTS, they would rather be playing locally developed three kingdom related RPGs, shitty local MMOs/WOW and Dota/Dota-esque games instead. The only time the chinese got into a RTS was Warcraft III but no body else play the game outside of China/Lyn anymore.
dahhhhhh chinese people play rts' quite alot too, they play local mmos and other games mainly because they are FREE not because of the genre.
Yeah, but all college aged people I know play Dota and Warcraft 3 rather than BW/SC2. Those scenes I believe are a lot bigger in China.
On June 26 2012 00:28 Arceus wrote: I dont know if it's a matter of taste or China is just late on following the trend. Wc3, BW and AoE2 all have their own huge community there. But unlike Korean BW, which lives on their profesionalism and legacy, these games are popular in China just because of easy piracy, low system requirement and guess what, no one else playing them outside of the mainland. Think Im a lil bit offtopic lol /my2cent
Yup. No one else besides a mere one billion mainlanders
For people who don't know any Chinese players, the Chinese Bnet attack was 1 of the most hilarious gaming show I've ever watched.
On June 26 2012 13:27 jimmydu444 wrote: I doubt China will become the next Korea of BW. Chinese people just doesn't like to play RTS, they would rather be playing locally developed three kingdom related RPGs, shitty local MMOs/WOW and Dota/Dota-esque games instead. The only time the chinese got into a RTS was Warcraft III but no body else play the game outside of China/Lyn anymore.
dahhhhhh chinese people play rts' quite alot too, they play local mmos and other games mainly because they are FREE not because of the genre.
Yeah, but all college aged people I know play Dota and Warcraft 3 rather than BW/SC2. Those scenes I believe are a lot bigger in China.
Because those games are alot more "friendly" and socialable than BW / SC2, the scene is alot more "casual" mannered because of the social stigma against professional gaming. They are definitely alot more wide spread, but I wouldn't call it "bigger" in terms of esports scene.
On June 26 2012 12:06 Woj wrote: Wow, pretty interesting.
Now maybe all the big BW Koreans will just move to China rather than to SC2 =P
The Chinese scene is alot smaller in terms of sponsorship than Korea or even foreign, partially because it's not seen as a legitimate past time or occupation by people from the 60s-70s (who are parents now) who don't allow their children to participate in them. Mostly because of the stigma against video games in China as the educational system is so rigid and strict and it's seen as detrimental for children to play games even as a past time, most parents (including mine) restrict if not outright not allow their children to play games during elementary to high school. And usually they see it as a waste of time going into university / work life any ways. People who are fervant about video games in China usually have to seek solidarity in small privately financed groups that barely get by and hope for corporate sponsorship which is few and far between; they also have to do so against social pressures to conform to a traditional education / work process, video games is simply not seen as a legitimate way of life by traditional parents from the 60s to 70s.
Most of the community leaders are people born in the 80s who are much more open about video games as their exposure to them were in high school / university when they had some degree of freedom, rather than the post-90s crowd now who are restricted by an aware parent generation due to the increasing stress and competitiveness of chinese schools and exams.
In short I don't see how Chinese (mainland) Esports can take off in the same way as of now, most SC2 progamers you see from China are either from taiwan / hongkong / coastal cities where there is the financial back ground / luxury to pursue these past times, or live in relative hardship when compared with foreign progamers like the ones at EG. It's almost unthinkeable to have a team house in China if you are just starting out as a progamer, even now most of the recognized progamers play from their homes and their clan prescence is via online rather than via same physical location. There would need to be a change in public mentality against the stigma of gamers.
Also major korean BW players are all trying to switch over to SC2 for financial stability, China's esports market is so volatile due to stigmas, pirating (adding to the seeming illegitimacy), and lack of regulation. I don't see KR progamers risking it to expand in China, unfortunately.
That being said "real" chinese gamers, i.e. ones connecting to the scene rather than just playing single player games they pirated from the internet (not saying that there's anything wrong with that other than the pirating), are very fervent and go out of their way to make things like this possible. So there is hope for domestic growth.
Didn't the chinese dota 1 teams have gaming houses? Afaik being a dota progamer in one of the top teams would net you a salary similar to what one would expect as a freashly graduated uni student. From what I have seen of chinese dota events, bw should stand a good chance of having a continuous league.
On June 26 2012 12:06 Woj wrote: Wow, pretty interesting.
Now maybe all the big BW Koreans will just move to China rather than to SC2 =P
The Chinese scene is alot smaller in terms of sponsorship than Korea or even foreign, partially because it's not seen as a legitimate past time or occupation by people from the 60s-70s (who are parents now) who don't allow their children to participate in them. Mostly because of the stigma against video games in China as the educational system is so rigid and strict and it's seen as detrimental for children to play games even as a past time, most parents (including mine) restrict if not outright not allow their children to play games during elementary to high school. And usually they see it as a waste of time going into university / work life any ways. People who are fervant about video games in China usually have to seek solidarity in small privately financed groups that barely get by and hope for corporate sponsorship which is few and far between; they also have to do so against social pressures to conform to a traditional education / work process, video games is simply not seen as a legitimate way of life by traditional parents from the 60s to 70s.
Most of the community leaders are people born in the 80s who are much more open about video games as their exposure to them were in high school / university when they had some degree of freedom, rather than the post-90s crowd now who are restricted by an aware parent generation due to the increasing stress and competitiveness of chinese schools and exams.
In short I don't see how Chinese (mainland) Esports can take off in the same way as of now, most SC2 progamers you see from China are either from taiwan / hongkong / coastal cities where there is the financial back ground / luxury to pursue these past times, or live in relative hardship when compared with foreign progamers like the ones at EG. It's almost unthinkeable to have a team house in China if you are just starting out as a progamer, even now most of the recognized progamers play from their homes and their clan prescence is via online rather than via same physical location. There would need to be a change in public mentality against the stigma of gamers.
Also major korean BW players are all trying to switch over to SC2 for financial stability, China's esports market is so volatile due to stigmas, pirating (adding to the seeming illegitimacy), and lack of regulation. I don't see KR progamers risking it to expand in China, unfortunately.
That being said "real" chinese gamers, i.e. ones connecting to the scene rather than just playing single player games they pirated from the internet (not saying that there's anything wrong with that other than the pirating), are very fervent and go out of their way to make things like this possible. So there is hope for domestic growth.
Didn't the chinese dota 1 teams have gaming houses? Afaik being a dota progamer in one of the top teams would net you a salary similar to what one would expect as a freashly graduated uni student. From what I have seen of chinese dota events, bw should stand a good chance of having a continuous league.
most chinese people play mobas / custom WC3 maps because it's seen as casual / sociable and less intense than competitive RTS, so alot more people got into it than BW. WC3 and Dota in China is equivalent to BW in KR, but again usually students are told by parents to study for graduating at a top uni rather than gaming, and if their grades were bad parents often blamed video games and didn't let them play any ways.
You also have to realize that the salary for a freshly graduated uni student in china is on the level of lower-middle class, it's really not a sustaineable solution for forming a family, all traditional chinese parents aim for the long run. There is definitely money in esports in china, but it's not seen as legitimate.
Good luck to the Chinese BW players! Reviving BW will take years, probably another decade, but I'll give them my support until there's a legit proscene again, when retired korean pros decide to migrate to China.
On June 25 2012 23:22 2Pacalypse- wrote: And now the BW will be reborn in China. Looking forward to following the scene next 13 years on shitty 240p streams and commentating in language I don't understand!
So nothing will change?
NO KPOP! I got into korean music because of BW in korea . Cpop time?
On June 26 2012 17:41 NicksonReyes wrote: Good luck to the Chinese BW players! Reviving BW will take years, probably another decade, but I'll give them my support until there's a legit proscene again, when retired korean pros decide to migrate to China.
On June 25 2012 23:22 2Pacalypse- wrote: And now the BW will be reborn in China. Looking forward to following the scene next 13 years on shitty 240p streams and commentating in language I don't understand!
So nothing will change?
NO KPOP! I got into korean music because of BW in korea . Cpop time?
lol cpop, doesn't even exists. I joke about the lack of value in kpop / jpop but man, cpop doesnt even exist, i'm chinese and I don't even know what cpop is supposed to be.
Imagine if this is the new beginning for the best game ever made. Imagine if in 3-5 years we will have a scene as developped as the Korean once was... One can always hope.
Thanks for the massive translation in the OP. It's great when somebody else from far across the world, whom I've never met or known, has a similar drive and passion for the game.
On June 26 2012 17:41 NicksonReyes wrote: Good luck to the Chinese BW players! Reviving BW will take years, probably another decade, but I'll give them my support until there's a legit proscene again, when retired korean pros decide to migrate to China.
On June 25 2012 23:41 Bakuryu wrote:
On June 25 2012 23:22 2Pacalypse- wrote: And now the BW will be reborn in China. Looking forward to following the scene next 13 years on shitty 240p streams and commentating in language I don't understand!
So nothing will change?
NO KPOP! I got into korean music because of BW in korea . Cpop time?
lol cpop, doesn't even exists. I joke about the lack of value in kpop / jpop but man, cpop doesnt even exist, i'm chinese and I don't even know what cpop is supposed to be.
What? Mandopop and Cantopop don't exist? I don't even...
On June 26 2012 17:41 NicksonReyes wrote: Good luck to the Chinese BW players! Reviving BW will take years, probably another decade, but I'll give them my support until there's a legit proscene again, when retired korean pros decide to migrate to China.
On June 25 2012 23:41 Bakuryu wrote:
On June 25 2012 23:22 2Pacalypse- wrote: And now the BW will be reborn in China. Looking forward to following the scene next 13 years on shitty 240p streams and commentating in language I don't understand!
So nothing will change?
NO KPOP! I got into korean music because of BW in korea . Cpop time?
lol cpop, doesn't even exists. I joke about the lack of value in kpop / jpop but man, cpop doesnt even exist, i'm chinese and I don't even know what cpop is supposed to be.
There's not really any idol girl groups like there are in kpop but to say cpop doesn't even exist hmm :p
On June 26 2012 11:57 Chairman Ray wrote: woohoo! I have never seen Chinese players play, I wonder if they're almost as good as Korean players.
At the STX masters in Shanghai in 2010, Legend destroyed STX, including Bogus who would become STX's ace and good Proleague Terran a few months later. He only lost 3-2 in the finals in a very close PvP to Trap
That's when he humiliated Tossgirl on Match Point with a mass corsairs and d-web build.
Oh and Legend came to Korea in 2006 as a progamer. He didn't do much, but he eliminated ZergBong aka Nestea in sc2 in the Shinhan 3 OSL prelims haha
I really wish Legend/LX would play i always enjoyed watching him and Pj play against foreigners and stuff, they always annihilated the competition so it was always such a treat to see
On June 25 2012 23:01 Caihead wrote: also I think it's only fitting that player "FRDS_SKTelecomBisu" drops out of the offline prelims, seeing as this is an "OSL" after all.
i couldnt help myself but crack up in laughter after reading this, good point i guess x.x ontopic, great initiative but as many have pointed out in this thread, the chinese bw scene is fairly unknown but it's a great opportunity.
On June 26 2012 17:41 NicksonReyes wrote: Good luck to the Chinese BW players! Reviving BW will take years, probably another decade, but I'll give them my support until there's a legit proscene again, when retired korean pros decide to migrate to China.
On June 25 2012 23:41 Bakuryu wrote:
On June 25 2012 23:22 2Pacalypse- wrote: And now the BW will be reborn in China. Looking forward to following the scene next 13 years on shitty 240p streams and commentating in language I don't understand!
So nothing will change?
NO KPOP! I got into korean music because of BW in korea . Cpop time?
lol cpop, doesn't even exists. I joke about the lack of value in kpop / jpop but man, cpop doesnt even exist, i'm chinese and I don't even know what cpop is supposed to be.
What? Mandopop and Cantopop don't exist? I don't even...
I just see it as such tripe nowadays it's not even worth talking about, it might as well not exist.
on topic been busy and away so i will update this when ever i can
On June 26 2012 18:51 ImbaTosS wrote: Thanks for the massive translation in the OP. It's great when somebody else from far across the world, whom I've never met or known, has a similar drive and passion for the game.
lols i'm in china now but I live in canada half the time and i've been to europes =3
On June 27 2012 10:49 haduken wrote: Hmm, is gaming still banned on TV? with out TV exposure => no sponsor.
in China? no, there's plenty of small tv stations that broadcast SC2, WC3, LoL, and other games on tv, they are just really small and only availible if you look for them or in "second rate" locations and hotels. It's not reached the mainstream yet.
Wow... this is fantastic news! If only top Korean pros could find their way there (Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Stork, etc.)... it would be... perfect! Hell, if BW in China does well perhaps sponsors in Korea would take notice and someone would decide to reinvest in the scene!
The chinese will not play a game if it cannot be pirated or is free (few exception to this rule), with that set out sc2 is doom to fail in china and I don't see influx of new chinese generation gamers will pursue a decade old game when there are many free and more modern games out there such as LoL/dota2/counterstrikeclonex123/mmo
On June 27 2012 14:02 iky43210 wrote: The chinese will not play a game if it cannot be pirated or is free (few exception to this rule), with that set out sc2 is doom to fail in china and I don't see influx of new chinese generation gamers will pursue a decade old game when there are many free and more modern games out there such as LoL/dota2/counterstrikeclonex123/mmo
Racial stereotyping aside, this is caused more by the outrageous price point of games when compared with the average wage level in china right now, a brand new game like diablo 3 or SC2 costs upwards of 400 rmb when converted, easily over a pre-university student's monthly allowance if he's in the middle or lower class. I'm chinese and I pay for all my games on steam because I have the previlege of paying for them from official sources over seas, there's alot of stigma against even "official" game retailers in china because piracy is so rampant - which again, is not caused by lower moral standards or w/e, but just the fact that the people didn't have money.
Like for example: The average wage levels of a lower to lower-middle class employee working in China's urban areas is around 2000-3000 rmb per month, where as the middle to upper-middle class make anywhere between 3000-10000 on average (the upper class makes a ridiculously higher sum of money but that's true in most societies), a PS3 or Xbox360 or upgraded PC set up could cost upwards of a few thousand rmb or even upward into the ten thousands. The proportion it is to your income is huge. People in the west complain about full price games being 60$ USD or Euro, but that's a much smaller proportion when compared to your average income level than say 400 rmb to 2000 rmb.
I'm pulling the figures right now off bnet, it's been 2 and a half years since SC2's come out, and it's still ~300 HK $ which translates to around 250, where as diablo 3 is 399 or 525. It could attribute to more than 20% of a middle class family's monthly disposable income, it's alot.
On June 27 2012 14:02 iky43210 wrote: The chinese will not play a game if it cannot be pirated or is free (few exception to this rule), with that set out sc2 is doom to fail in china and I don't see influx of new chinese generation gamers will pursue a decade old game when there are many free and more modern games out there such as LoL/dota2/counterstrikeclonex123/mmo
Racial stereotyping aside, this is caused more by the outrageous price point of games when compared with the average wage level in china right now, a brand new game like diablo 3 or SC2 costs upwards of 400 rmb when converted, easily over a pre-university student's monthly allowance if he's in the middle or lower class. I'm chinese and I pay for all my games on steam because I have the previlege of paying for them from official sources over seas, there's alot of stigma against even "official" game retailers in china because piracy is so rampant - which again, is not caused by lower moral standards or w/e, but just the fact that the people didn't have money.
Like for example: The average wage levels of a lower to lower-middle class employee working in China's urban areas is around 2000-3000 rmb per month, where as the middle to upper-middle class make anywhere between 3000-10000 on average (the upper class makes a ridiculously higher sum of money but that's true in most societies), a PS3 or Xbox360 or upgraded PC set up could cost upwards of a few thousand rmb or even upward into the ten thousands. The proportion it is to your income is huge. People in the west complain about full price games being 60$ USD or Euro, but that's a much smaller proportion when compared to your average income level than say 400 rmb to 2000 rmb.
I'm pulling the figures right now off bnet, it's been 2 and a half years since SC2's come out, and it's still ~300 HK $ which translates to around 250, where as diablo 3 is 399 or 525. It could attribute to more than 20% of a middle class family's monthly disposable income, it's alot.
you can sell games there at $5 a copy and it still wouldn't make a difference. Asia customers(beside Japan) just don't have the same beliefs in intellectual properties as the westerners. Most of them believes software should be free of charge while in the west majority still respects intellectual properties.
It's pretty much why every game made with Asia market in mind are usually f2p. If Blizzard wants to suceed in the asia market (not just china, but everywhere else), they need to incorporate f2p model for that area or they're not going to make it outside of creating one of a kind master piece.
its not racial stereotyping, its marketing and business sense, which I severely thinks Blizzard asia department is completely incompetent just by looking at the bridges they burn in China such as the deal with the9 and the fiasco with diablo 3 and Korean customers. Their product manager should've raised many red flags when they decide to make return of the lich king with WoW
On June 27 2012 14:02 iky43210 wrote: The chinese will not play a game if it cannot be pirated or is free (few exception to this rule), with that set out sc2 is doom to fail in china and I don't see influx of new chinese generation gamers will pursue a decade old game when there are many free and more modern games out there such as LoL/dota2/counterstrikeclonex123/mmo
Racial stereotyping aside, this is caused more by the outrageous price point of games when compared with the average wage level in china right now, a brand new game like diablo 3 or SC2 costs upwards of 400 rmb when converted, easily over a pre-university student's monthly allowance if he's in the middle or lower class. I'm chinese and I pay for all my games on steam because I have the previlege of paying for them from official sources over seas, there's alot of stigma against even "official" game retailers in china because piracy is so rampant - which again, is not caused by lower moral standards or w/e, but just the fact that the people didn't have money.
Like for example: The average wage levels of a lower to lower-middle class employee working in China's urban areas is around 2000-3000 rmb per month, where as the middle to upper-middle class make anywhere between 3000-10000 on average (the upper class makes a ridiculously higher sum of money but that's true in most societies), a PS3 or Xbox360 or upgraded PC set up could cost upwards of a few thousand rmb or even upward into the ten thousands. The proportion it is to your income is huge. People in the west complain about full price games being 60$ USD or Euro, but that's a much smaller proportion when compared to your average income level than say 400 rmb to 2000 rmb.
I'm pulling the figures right now off bnet, it's been 2 and a half years since SC2's come out, and it's still ~300 HK $ which translates to around 250, where as diablo 3 is 399 or 525. It could attribute to more than 20% of a middle class family's monthly disposable income, it's alot.
you can sell games there at $5 a copy and it still wouldn't make a difference. Asia customers(beside Japan) just don't have the same beliefs in intellectual properties as the westerners. Most of them believes software should be free of charge while in the west majority still respects intellectual properties.
It's pretty much why every game made with Asia market in mind are usually f2p. If Blizzard wants to suceed in the asia market (not just china, but everywhere else), they need to incorporate f2p model for that area or they're not going to make it outside of creating one of a kind master piece.
Don't have the same beliefs in intellectual property? Have you been to taiwan, hongkong, shanghai, beijing, shenzhen (where i live), seoul, singapore, etc? These are places that are growing epicenters of high tech industry. Japan has established itself because of its economical reforms which were successful, mainland china has been under economical reform for just 30 years. Your argument makes no sense, a f2p game can be just as easily ripped off its intellectual property as a 60$ game, the prize tag wouldn't matter if that was the issue. F2P games succeed in china precisely because of their free nature and the small monetary transactions that people can afford. Has nothing to do with intellectual property. How do you expect reasonably that some one with almost no disposable income pay for expensive overseas softwares just to run his computer which would cost many times over his monthly income because of currency exchange rates and trade levies?
Yea, the situation is terrible in China in terms of protection of intellectual property, I'm a personal victim as is the company i'm working for, that doesn't mean that people don't understand the concepts or beliefs, just that the associated legal system isn't fleshed out yet. And they are often forced to violate it because they don't have a choice in the matter, or resort to playing f2p games.
Where did this "They believe soft ware should be free of charge" come from exactly? Where is that observation from? Can you list a survey, an academic source, or a list of individuals who expressed this opinion? I would like to contact them and personally educate them. The only reason why this would be the apparent case is either they literally don't know better seeing as how some parts of the chinese populous has still never used a computer before; or because of ridiculous western propoganda.
On June 27 2012 14:02 iky43210 wrote: The chinese will not play a game if it cannot be pirated or is free (few exception to this rule), with that set out sc2 is doom to fail in china and I don't see influx of new chinese generation gamers will pursue a decade old game when there are many free and more modern games out there such as LoL/dota2/counterstrikeclonex123/mmo
Racial stereotyping aside, this is caused more by the outrageous price point of games when compared with the average wage level in china right now, a brand new game like diablo 3 or SC2 costs upwards of 400 rmb when converted, easily over a pre-university student's monthly allowance if he's in the middle or lower class. I'm chinese and I pay for all my games on steam because I have the previlege of paying for them from official sources over seas, there's alot of stigma against even "official" game retailers in china because piracy is so rampant - which again, is not caused by lower moral standards or w/e, but just the fact that the people didn't have money.
Like for example: The average wage levels of a lower to lower-middle class employee working in China's urban areas is around 2000-3000 rmb per month, where as the middle to upper-middle class make anywhere between 3000-10000 on average (the upper class makes a ridiculously higher sum of money but that's true in most societies), a PS3 or Xbox360 or upgraded PC set up could cost upwards of a few thousand rmb or even upward into the ten thousands. The proportion it is to your income is huge. People in the west complain about full price games being 60$ USD or Euro, but that's a much smaller proportion when compared to your average income level than say 400 rmb to 2000 rmb.
I'm pulling the figures right now off bnet, it's been 2 and a half years since SC2's come out, and it's still ~300 HK $ which translates to around 250, where as diablo 3 is 399 or 525. It could attribute to more than 20% of a middle class family's monthly disposable income, it's alot.
you can sell games there at $5 a copy and it still wouldn't make a difference. Asia customers(beside Japan) just don't have the same beliefs in intellectual properties as the westerners. Most of them believes software should be free of charge while in the west majority still respects intellectual properties.
It's pretty much why every game made with Asia market in mind are usually f2p. If Blizzard wants to suceed in the asia market (not just china, but everywhere else), they need to incorporate f2p model for that area or they're not going to make it outside of creating one of a kind master piece.
Don't have the same beliefs in intellectual property? Have you been to taiwan, hongkong, shanghai, beijing, shenzhen (where i live), seoul, singapore, etc? These are places that are growing epicenters of high tech industry. Japan has established itself because of its economical reforms which were successful, mainland china has been under economical reform for just 30 years. Your argument makes no sense, a f2p game can be just as easily ripped off its intellectual property as a 60$ game, the prize tag wouldn't matter if that was the issue. F2P games succeed in china precisely because of their free nature and the small monetary transactions that people can afford. Has nothing to do with intellectual property. How do you expect reasonably that some one with almost no disposable income pay for expensive overseas softwares just to run his computer which would cost many times over his monthly income because of currency exchange rates and trade levies?
Yea, the situation is terrible in China in terms of protection of intellectual property, I'm a personal victim as is the company i'm working for, that doesn't mean that people don't understand the concepts or beliefs, just that the associated legal system isn't fleshed out yet. And they are often forced to violate it because they don't have a choice in the matter, or resort to playing f2p games.
I work as a marketing/product manager in a software company in Taiwan, respect for intellectual properties are something you learned from as a society, not individually. I'm just going to tell you that you're not going to get many customers willing to pay for software in Asia. Lets put this into perspective, nearly 90% of the customers here bought our hardware with software incorporated in them while in the states nearly all our sales are through software. We specifically made hardware and software links because we know softwares have no worth to individual buyers (companies are of different stories)
what I am saying is not politically correct, but its the truth.
f2p games can't be ripped off of its intellectual properties, that made no sense. People would either pirate the game to play them for free, and if they can't (incase of online games), they go play something else that will. And trust me when I say those monotary transaction from f2p games are far from cheap. Gamers in asia are used to believe software should be free that they won't pay money for those that aren't
Here's something to put into perspective on Piracy, and the figures aren't any better now
Country 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 Korea 75% 76% 70% 67% 64% U.S. 31% 26% 27% 27% 25% Japan 66% 55% 41% 32% 31% Taiwan 72% 70% 66% 63% 50% China 97% 96% 96% 96% 95% Total World 49% 46% 43% 40% 38%
On June 27 2012 14:02 iky43210 wrote: The chinese will not play a game if it cannot be pirated or is free (few exception to this rule), with that set out sc2 is doom to fail in china and I don't see influx of new chinese generation gamers will pursue a decade old game when there are many free and more modern games out there such as LoL/dota2/counterstrikeclonex123/mmo
Racial stereotyping aside, this is caused more by the outrageous price point of games when compared with the average wage level in china right now, a brand new game like diablo 3 or SC2 costs upwards of 400 rmb when converted, easily over a pre-university student's monthly allowance if he's in the middle or lower class. I'm chinese and I pay for all my games on steam because I have the previlege of paying for them from official sources over seas, there's alot of stigma against even "official" game retailers in china because piracy is so rampant - which again, is not caused by lower moral standards or w/e, but just the fact that the people didn't have money.
Like for example: The average wage levels of a lower to lower-middle class employee working in China's urban areas is around 2000-3000 rmb per month, where as the middle to upper-middle class make anywhere between 3000-10000 on average (the upper class makes a ridiculously higher sum of money but that's true in most societies), a PS3 or Xbox360 or upgraded PC set up could cost upwards of a few thousand rmb or even upward into the ten thousands. The proportion it is to your income is huge. People in the west complain about full price games being 60$ USD or Euro, but that's a much smaller proportion when compared to your average income level than say 400 rmb to 2000 rmb.
I'm pulling the figures right now off bnet, it's been 2 and a half years since SC2's come out, and it's still ~300 HK $ which translates to around 250, where as diablo 3 is 399 or 525. It could attribute to more than 20% of a middle class family's monthly disposable income, it's alot.
its not racial stereotyping, its marketing and business sense, which I severely thinks Blizzard asia department is completely incompetent just by looking at the bridges they burn in China such as the deal with the9 and the fiasco with diablo 3 and Korean customers. Their product manager should've raised many red flags when they decide to make return of the lich king with WoW
It's marketing and business sense in the respect that western companies are not willing to lower their price points, that's literally it. Baidu is successful in China, China Mobile/unicom is successful in China, as is Microsoft and Apple. Apple markets itself to the upper class in China to avoid the price point conflict, and Microsoft turns a blind eye to lower price points and piracy to ensure their hold on the market. Nothing about it has anything to do with the Chinese' understanding of intellectual property. Google bombed out of China where as Baidu is massively profitable.
On June 27 2012 14:02 iky43210 wrote: The chinese will not play a game if it cannot be pirated or is free (few exception to this rule), with that set out sc2 is doom to fail in china and I don't see influx of new chinese generation gamers will pursue a decade old game when there are many free and more modern games out there such as LoL/dota2/counterstrikeclonex123/mmo
Racial stereotyping aside, this is caused more by the outrageous price point of games when compared with the average wage level in china right now, a brand new game like diablo 3 or SC2 costs upwards of 400 rmb when converted, easily over a pre-university student's monthly allowance if he's in the middle or lower class. I'm chinese and I pay for all my games on steam because I have the previlege of paying for them from official sources over seas, there's alot of stigma against even "official" game retailers in china because piracy is so rampant - which again, is not caused by lower moral standards or w/e, but just the fact that the people didn't have money.
Like for example: The average wage levels of a lower to lower-middle class employee working in China's urban areas is around 2000-3000 rmb per month, where as the middle to upper-middle class make anywhere between 3000-10000 on average (the upper class makes a ridiculously higher sum of money but that's true in most societies), a PS3 or Xbox360 or upgraded PC set up could cost upwards of a few thousand rmb or even upward into the ten thousands. The proportion it is to your income is huge. People in the west complain about full price games being 60$ USD or Euro, but that's a much smaller proportion when compared to your average income level than say 400 rmb to 2000 rmb.
I'm pulling the figures right now off bnet, it's been 2 and a half years since SC2's come out, and it's still ~300 HK $ which translates to around 250, where as diablo 3 is 399 or 525. It could attribute to more than 20% of a middle class family's monthly disposable income, it's alot.
its not racial stereotyping, its marketing and business sense, which I severely thinks Blizzard asia department is completely incompetent just by looking at the bridges they burn in China such as the deal with the9 and the fiasco with diablo 3 and Korean customers. Their product manager should've raised many red flags when they decide to make return of the lich king with WoW
It's marketing and business sense in the respect that western companies are not willing to lower their price points, that's literally it. Baidu is successful in China, China Mobile/unicom is successful in China, as is Microsoft and Apple. Apple markets itself to the upper class in China to avoid the price point conflict, and Microsoft turns a blind eye to lower price points and piracy to ensure their hold on the market. Nothing about it has anything to do with the Chinese' understanding of intellectual property. Google bombed out of China where as Baidu is massively profitable.
hardware is not software. Hardware has plenty of worth to Asia consumers
On June 27 2012 14:02 iky43210 wrote: The chinese will not play a game if it cannot be pirated or is free (few exception to this rule), with that set out sc2 is doom to fail in china and I don't see influx of new chinese generation gamers will pursue a decade old game when there are many free and more modern games out there such as LoL/dota2/counterstrikeclonex123/mmo
Racial stereotyping aside, this is caused more by the outrageous price point of games when compared with the average wage level in china right now, a brand new game like diablo 3 or SC2 costs upwards of 400 rmb when converted, easily over a pre-university student's monthly allowance if he's in the middle or lower class. I'm chinese and I pay for all my games on steam because I have the previlege of paying for them from official sources over seas, there's alot of stigma against even "official" game retailers in china because piracy is so rampant - which again, is not caused by lower moral standards or w/e, but just the fact that the people didn't have money.
Like for example: The average wage levels of a lower to lower-middle class employee working in China's urban areas is around 2000-3000 rmb per month, where as the middle to upper-middle class make anywhere between 3000-10000 on average (the upper class makes a ridiculously higher sum of money but that's true in most societies), a PS3 or Xbox360 or upgraded PC set up could cost upwards of a few thousand rmb or even upward into the ten thousands. The proportion it is to your income is huge. People in the west complain about full price games being 60$ USD or Euro, but that's a much smaller proportion when compared to your average income level than say 400 rmb to 2000 rmb.
I'm pulling the figures right now off bnet, it's been 2 and a half years since SC2's come out, and it's still ~300 HK $ which translates to around 250, where as diablo 3 is 399 or 525. It could attribute to more than 20% of a middle class family's monthly disposable income, it's alot.
you can sell games there at $5 a copy and it still wouldn't make a difference. Asia customers(beside Japan) just don't have the same beliefs in intellectual properties as the westerners. Most of them believes software should be free of charge while in the west majority still respects intellectual properties.
It's pretty much why every game made with Asia market in mind are usually f2p. If Blizzard wants to suceed in the asia market (not just china, but everywhere else), they need to incorporate f2p model for that area or they're not going to make it outside of creating one of a kind master piece.
Don't have the same beliefs in intellectual property? Have you been to taiwan, hongkong, shanghai, beijing, shenzhen (where i live), seoul, singapore, etc? These are places that are growing epicenters of high tech industry. Japan has established itself because of its economical reforms which were successful, mainland china has been under economical reform for just 30 years. Your argument makes no sense, a f2p game can be just as easily ripped off its intellectual property as a 60$ game, the prize tag wouldn't matter if that was the issue. F2P games succeed in china precisely because of their free nature and the small monetary transactions that people can afford. Has nothing to do with intellectual property. How do you expect reasonably that some one with almost no disposable income pay for expensive overseas softwares just to run his computer which would cost many times over his monthly income because of currency exchange rates and trade levies?
Yea, the situation is terrible in China in terms of protection of intellectual property, I'm a personal victim as is the company i'm working for, that doesn't mean that people don't understand the concepts or beliefs, just that the associated legal system isn't fleshed out yet. And they are often forced to violate it because they don't have a choice in the matter, or resort to playing f2p games.
I work as a marketing/product manager in a software company in Taiwan, respect for intellectual properties are something you learned from as a society, not individually. I'm just going to tell you that you're not going to get many customers willing to pay for software in Asia. Lets put this into perspective, nearly 90% of the customers here bought our hardware with software incorporated in them while in the states nearly all our sales are through software. We specifically made hardware and software links because we know softwares have no worth to individual buyers (companies are of different stories)
what I am saying is not politically correct, but its the truth.
f2p games can't be ripped off of its intellectual properties, that made no sense. People would either pirate the game to play them for free, and if they can't (incase of online games), they go play something else that will. And trust me when I say those monotary transaction from f2p games are far from cheap, they are used to believe software should be free that they won't pay money for those that aren't
Here's something to put into perspective on Piracy, and the figures aren't any better now
Country 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 Korea 75% 76% 70% 67% 64% U.S. 31% 26% 27% 27% 25% Japan 66% 55% 41% 32% 31% Taiwan 72% 70% 66% 63% 50% China 97% 96% 96% 96% 95% Total World 49% 46% 43% 40% 38%
Jesus christ these figures are ridiculously dated, have you seen China in 1998? I think only about 1/50 people had a computer, and 1/10 people had a phone. F2P games can be ripped off their intellectual properties by exploiting assets, unless your understanding of intellectual property is as shallow as "if it's free it has no intellectual property". There's a huge difference again between not willing to pay for the product because it's expensive and not respecting your intellectual property. Notice that having the software readily installed is a marketing decision that's completely irrelevant of the price you charge, nor the intellectual property of the software.
I think this will maintain the BW competitive scene alive just as China kept the WC3 competitive scene alive when it was dead everywhere else in the world. If this league is successful and if the prizepool grow significantly higher we might see korean and foreigners BW players move to china like we saw for WC3 but i honestly doubt it will go this far.
On June 27 2012 14:02 iky43210 wrote: The chinese will not play a game if it cannot be pirated or is free (few exception to this rule), with that set out sc2 is doom to fail in china and I don't see influx of new chinese generation gamers will pursue a decade old game when there are many free and more modern games out there such as LoL/dota2/counterstrikeclonex123/mmo
Racial stereotyping aside, this is caused more by the outrageous price point of games when compared with the average wage level in china right now, a brand new game like diablo 3 or SC2 costs upwards of 400 rmb when converted, easily over a pre-university student's monthly allowance if he's in the middle or lower class. I'm chinese and I pay for all my games on steam because I have the previlege of paying for them from official sources over seas, there's alot of stigma against even "official" game retailers in china because piracy is so rampant - which again, is not caused by lower moral standards or w/e, but just the fact that the people didn't have money.
Like for example: The average wage levels of a lower to lower-middle class employee working in China's urban areas is around 2000-3000 rmb per month, where as the middle to upper-middle class make anywhere between 3000-10000 on average (the upper class makes a ridiculously higher sum of money but that's true in most societies), a PS3 or Xbox360 or upgraded PC set up could cost upwards of a few thousand rmb or even upward into the ten thousands. The proportion it is to your income is huge. People in the west complain about full price games being 60$ USD or Euro, but that's a much smaller proportion when compared to your average income level than say 400 rmb to 2000 rmb.
I'm pulling the figures right now off bnet, it's been 2 and a half years since SC2's come out, and it's still ~300 HK $ which translates to around 250, where as diablo 3 is 399 or 525. It could attribute to more than 20% of a middle class family's monthly disposable income, it's alot.
its not racial stereotyping, its marketing and business sense, which I severely thinks Blizzard asia department is completely incompetent just by looking at the bridges they burn in China such as the deal with the9 and the fiasco with diablo 3 and Korean customers. Their product manager should've raised many red flags when they decide to make return of the lich king with WoW
It's marketing and business sense in the respect that western companies are not willing to lower their price points, that's literally it. Baidu is successful in China, China Mobile/unicom is successful in China, as is Microsoft and Apple. Apple markets itself to the upper class in China to avoid the price point conflict, and Microsoft turns a blind eye to lower price points and piracy to ensure their hold on the market. Nothing about it has anything to do with the Chinese' understanding of intellectual property. Google bombed out of China where as Baidu is massively profitable.
hardware is not software. Hardware has plenty of worth to Asia consumers
So... Baidu/microsoft/apple IOS/China Mobile/unicom phone operating system software is hardware? Most of the most profitable companies in China are software companies that provide services for Phones, computers, and so forth. Microsoft has continued its XP system and support in China for far longer than its expected life span due to its lower price point. And also, hardware doesn't hold intellectual property? >_>
On June 27 2012 14:02 iky43210 wrote: The chinese will not play a game if it cannot be pirated or is free (few exception to this rule), with that set out sc2 is doom to fail in china and I don't see influx of new chinese generation gamers will pursue a decade old game when there are many free and more modern games out there such as LoL/dota2/counterstrikeclonex123/mmo
Racial stereotyping aside, this is caused more by the outrageous price point of games when compared with the average wage level in china right now, a brand new game like diablo 3 or SC2 costs upwards of 400 rmb when converted, easily over a pre-university student's monthly allowance if he's in the middle or lower class. I'm chinese and I pay for all my games on steam because I have the previlege of paying for them from official sources over seas, there's alot of stigma against even "official" game retailers in china because piracy is so rampant - which again, is not caused by lower moral standards or w/e, but just the fact that the people didn't have money.
Like for example: The average wage levels of a lower to lower-middle class employee working in China's urban areas is around 2000-3000 rmb per month, where as the middle to upper-middle class make anywhere between 3000-10000 on average (the upper class makes a ridiculously higher sum of money but that's true in most societies), a PS3 or Xbox360 or upgraded PC set up could cost upwards of a few thousand rmb or even upward into the ten thousands. The proportion it is to your income is huge. People in the west complain about full price games being 60$ USD or Euro, but that's a much smaller proportion when compared to your average income level than say 400 rmb to 2000 rmb.
I'm pulling the figures right now off bnet, it's been 2 and a half years since SC2's come out, and it's still ~300 HK $ which translates to around 250, where as diablo 3 is 399 or 525. It could attribute to more than 20% of a middle class family's monthly disposable income, it's alot.
you can sell games there at $5 a copy and it still wouldn't make a difference. Asia customers(beside Japan) just don't have the same beliefs in intellectual properties as the westerners. Most of them believes software should be free of charge while in the west majority still respects intellectual properties.
It's pretty much why every game made with Asia market in mind are usually f2p. If Blizzard wants to suceed in the asia market (not just china, but everywhere else), they need to incorporate f2p model for that area or they're not going to make it outside of creating one of a kind master piece.
Don't have the same beliefs in intellectual property? Have you been to taiwan, hongkong, shanghai, beijing, shenzhen (where i live), seoul, singapore, etc? These are places that are growing epicenters of high tech industry. Japan has established itself because of its economical reforms which were successful, mainland china has been under economical reform for just 30 years. Your argument makes no sense, a f2p game can be just as easily ripped off its intellectual property as a 60$ game, the prize tag wouldn't matter if that was the issue. F2P games succeed in china precisely because of their free nature and the small monetary transactions that people can afford. Has nothing to do with intellectual property. How do you expect reasonably that some one with almost no disposable income pay for expensive overseas softwares just to run his computer which would cost many times over his monthly income because of currency exchange rates and trade levies?
Yea, the situation is terrible in China in terms of protection of intellectual property, I'm a personal victim as is the company i'm working for, that doesn't mean that people don't understand the concepts or beliefs, just that the associated legal system isn't fleshed out yet. And they are often forced to violate it because they don't have a choice in the matter, or resort to playing f2p games.
I work as a marketing/product manager in a software company in Taiwan, respect for intellectual properties are something you learned from as a society, not individually. I'm just going to tell you that you're not going to get many customers willing to pay for software in Asia. Lets put this into perspective, nearly 90% of the customers here bought our hardware with software incorporated in them while in the states nearly all our sales are through software. We specifically made hardware and software links because we know softwares have no worth to individual buyers (companies are of different stories)
what I am saying is not politically correct, but its the truth.
f2p games can't be ripped off of its intellectual properties, that made no sense. People would either pirate the game to play them for free, and if they can't (incase of online games), they go play something else that will. And trust me when I say those monotary transaction from f2p games are far from cheap, they are used to believe software should be free that they won't pay money for those that aren't
Here's something to put into perspective on Piracy, and the figures aren't any better now
Country 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 Korea 75% 76% 70% 67% 64% U.S. 31% 26% 27% 27% 25% Japan 66% 55% 41% 32% 31% Taiwan 72% 70% 66% 63% 50% China 97% 96% 96% 96% 95% Total World 49% 46% 43% 40% 38%
Jesus christ these figures are ridiculously dated, have you seen China in 1998? I think only about 1/50 people had a computer, and 1/10 people had a phone. F2P games can be ripped off their intellectual properties by exploiting assets, unless your understanding of intellectual property is as shallow as "if it's free it has no intellectual property". There's a huge difference again between not willing to pay for the product because it's expensive and not respecting your intellectual property. Notice that having the software readily installed is a marketing decision that's completely irrelevant of the price you charge, nor the intellectual property of the software.
sadly those figures have barely changed much since then. I don't know what you're trying to argue, you can slash prices on software and you'll be worse off, because majority of those that don't respect intellectual properties just aren't going to pay for it no matter how much you price them. You are better off pricing accordingly to those that do respect those properties, despite how few of them out there. How are you going to sell your software if majority of the market believes software are free? In asia, you sell hardwares (with software incorporated) to individual consumers and softwares to business.
You mentioned microsoft reducing prices on its OS by nearly a 1/3 to fight for privacy back in the 2006s, but you realize that has ended in a failure, right? They're back into their old rountine of cutting into the legislatures to curb privacy.
On June 27 2012 14:02 iky43210 wrote: The chinese will not play a game if it cannot be pirated or is free (few exception to this rule), with that set out sc2 is doom to fail in china and I don't see influx of new chinese generation gamers will pursue a decade old game when there are many free and more modern games out there such as LoL/dota2/counterstrikeclonex123/mmo
Racial stereotyping aside, this is caused more by the outrageous price point of games when compared with the average wage level in china right now, a brand new game like diablo 3 or SC2 costs upwards of 400 rmb when converted, easily over a pre-university student's monthly allowance if he's in the middle or lower class. I'm chinese and I pay for all my games on steam because I have the previlege of paying for them from official sources over seas, there's alot of stigma against even "official" game retailers in china because piracy is so rampant - which again, is not caused by lower moral standards or w/e, but just the fact that the people didn't have money.
Like for example: The average wage levels of a lower to lower-middle class employee working in China's urban areas is around 2000-3000 rmb per month, where as the middle to upper-middle class make anywhere between 3000-10000 on average (the upper class makes a ridiculously higher sum of money but that's true in most societies), a PS3 or Xbox360 or upgraded PC set up could cost upwards of a few thousand rmb or even upward into the ten thousands. The proportion it is to your income is huge. People in the west complain about full price games being 60$ USD or Euro, but that's a much smaller proportion when compared to your average income level than say 400 rmb to 2000 rmb.
I'm pulling the figures right now off bnet, it's been 2 and a half years since SC2's come out, and it's still ~300 HK $ which translates to around 250, where as diablo 3 is 399 or 525. It could attribute to more than 20% of a middle class family's monthly disposable income, it's alot.
its not racial stereotyping, its marketing and business sense, which I severely thinks Blizzard asia department is completely incompetent just by looking at the bridges they burn in China such as the deal with the9 and the fiasco with diablo 3 and Korean customers. Their product manager should've raised many red flags when they decide to make return of the lich king with WoW
It's marketing and business sense in the respect that western companies are not willing to lower their price points, that's literally it. Baidu is successful in China, China Mobile/unicom is successful in China, as is Microsoft and Apple. Apple markets itself to the upper class in China to avoid the price point conflict, and Microsoft turns a blind eye to lower price points and piracy to ensure their hold on the market. Nothing about it has anything to do with the Chinese' understanding of intellectual property. Google bombed out of China where as Baidu is massively profitable.
hardware is not software. Hardware has plenty of worth to Asia consumers
So... Baidu/microsoft/apple IOS/China Mobile/unicom phone operating system software is hardware? Most of the most profitable companies in China are software companies that provide services for Phones, computers, and so forth. Microsoft has continued its XP system and support in China for far longer than its expected life span due to its lower price point. And also, hardware doesn't hold intellectual property? >_>
I high light the keyword. Sell to businesses, cause they are entities and not individuals that must respect intellectual properties
microsoft made a windfall in parts of china because they were able to get legislature to pass that all computers must be sold with a legitimate operating system. They have tried cutting costs to their OS with no avail back in the 2005s, now they just try to fight it with law enforcements in the 2010s. Even then, china has the similar number of PC sold compare to the US yet only earned 1/20 of the revenue. Though I expect they probably sold next to nothing to individual consumers
On June 27 2012 14:02 iky43210 wrote: The chinese will not play a game if it cannot be pirated or is free (few exception to this rule), with that set out sc2 is doom to fail in china and I don't see influx of new chinese generation gamers will pursue a decade old game when there are many free and more modern games out there such as LoL/dota2/counterstrikeclonex123/mmo
Racial stereotyping aside, this is caused more by the outrageous price point of games when compared with the average wage level in china right now, a brand new game like diablo 3 or SC2 costs upwards of 400 rmb when converted, easily over a pre-university student's monthly allowance if he's in the middle or lower class. I'm chinese and I pay for all my games on steam because I have the previlege of paying for them from official sources over seas, there's alot of stigma against even "official" game retailers in china because piracy is so rampant - which again, is not caused by lower moral standards or w/e, but just the fact that the people didn't have money.
Like for example: The average wage levels of a lower to lower-middle class employee working in China's urban areas is around 2000-3000 rmb per month, where as the middle to upper-middle class make anywhere between 3000-10000 on average (the upper class makes a ridiculously higher sum of money but that's true in most societies), a PS3 or Xbox360 or upgraded PC set up could cost upwards of a few thousand rmb or even upward into the ten thousands. The proportion it is to your income is huge. People in the west complain about full price games being 60$ USD or Euro, but that's a much smaller proportion when compared to your average income level than say 400 rmb to 2000 rmb.
I'm pulling the figures right now off bnet, it's been 2 and a half years since SC2's come out, and it's still ~300 HK $ which translates to around 250, where as diablo 3 is 399 or 525. It could attribute to more than 20% of a middle class family's monthly disposable income, it's alot.
its not racial stereotyping, its marketing and business sense, which I severely thinks Blizzard asia department is completely incompetent just by looking at the bridges they burn in China such as the deal with the9 and the fiasco with diablo 3 and Korean customers. Their product manager should've raised many red flags when they decide to make return of the lich king with WoW
It's marketing and business sense in the respect that western companies are not willing to lower their price points, that's literally it. Baidu is successful in China, China Mobile/unicom is successful in China, as is Microsoft and Apple. Apple markets itself to the upper class in China to avoid the price point conflict, and Microsoft turns a blind eye to lower price points and piracy to ensure their hold on the market. Nothing about it has anything to do with the Chinese' understanding of intellectual property. Google bombed out of China where as Baidu is massively profitable.
hardware is not software. Hardware has plenty of worth to Asia consumers
So... Baidu/microsoft/apple IOS/China Mobile/unicom phone operating system software is hardware? Most of the most profitable companies in China are software companies that provide services for Phones, computers, and so forth. Microsoft has continued its XP system and support in China for far longer than its expected life span due to its lower price point. And also, hardware doesn't hold intellectual property? >_>
I high light the keyword. Sell to businesses, cause they are entities and not individuals that must respect intellectual properties
microsoft made a windfall in china because they were able to get legislature to pass that all computers must be sold with a legitimate operating system. They have tried cutting costs to their OS with no avail back in the 2005s, now they just try to fight it with law enforcements in the 2010s
Your argument is that piracy stems from the lack of observation to intellectual property. What sense does it make that individuals do not respect properties where as entities do? What corporatism is this? If all the emcompassing individuals in an entity or institution do not respect intellectual property why would they when collected together. And if society is an entity made out of emcompassing individuals, why would the same rule not apply? Does it occur to you that again, people are pirating not because they disrespect the property, but because they are poor? Companies have money and therefore pay for them, your observation that businesses pay for them just back this up.
My argument is simply this:in these areas, for the lower and middle class, they do not have the disposable income and therefore they pirate, not as the result of disrespecting intellectual property, but as the result of either ignorance to the matter (which is different from ignoring the matter selectively once told) and lack of disposal income to spend on it.
It's a extremely insulting generalization to say that "The chinese will not play a game if it cannot be pirated or is free" or that "Asia customers(beside Japan) just don't have the same beliefs in intellectual properties as the westerners".
On June 27 2012 14:02 iky43210 wrote: The chinese will not play a game if it cannot be pirated or is free (few exception to this rule), with that set out sc2 is doom to fail in china and I don't see influx of new chinese generation gamers will pursue a decade old game when there are many free and more modern games out there such as LoL/dota2/counterstrikeclonex123/mmo
Racial stereotyping aside, this is caused more by the outrageous price point of games when compared with the average wage level in china right now, a brand new game like diablo 3 or SC2 costs upwards of 400 rmb when converted, easily over a pre-university student's monthly allowance if he's in the middle or lower class. I'm chinese and I pay for all my games on steam because I have the previlege of paying for them from official sources over seas, there's alot of stigma against even "official" game retailers in china because piracy is so rampant - which again, is not caused by lower moral standards or w/e, but just the fact that the people didn't have money.
Like for example: The average wage levels of a lower to lower-middle class employee working in China's urban areas is around 2000-3000 rmb per month, where as the middle to upper-middle class make anywhere between 3000-10000 on average (the upper class makes a ridiculously higher sum of money but that's true in most societies), a PS3 or Xbox360 or upgraded PC set up could cost upwards of a few thousand rmb or even upward into the ten thousands. The proportion it is to your income is huge. People in the west complain about full price games being 60$ USD or Euro, but that's a much smaller proportion when compared to your average income level than say 400 rmb to 2000 rmb.
I'm pulling the figures right now off bnet, it's been 2 and a half years since SC2's come out, and it's still ~300 HK $ which translates to around 250, where as diablo 3 is 399 or 525. It could attribute to more than 20% of a middle class family's monthly disposable income, it's alot.
you can sell games there at $5 a copy and it still wouldn't make a difference. Asia customers(beside Japan) just don't have the same beliefs in intellectual properties as the westerners. Most of them believes software should be free of charge while in the west majority still respects intellectual properties.
We do have (used to have a lot more) a lot of pirated stuff sold around the equivalent of $3 to $5 a copy : CDs, DVDs or games. Guess what? The gangsters are really really rich.
It could all have gone to the companies who made it but they decided to sell it at a price that's effectively close to quadruple the US market price (taking into account the exchange rate), most of the time, more.
Imagine if CDs were sold at 50$ (RM 50) and the the hourly wage at KFC is about $3.50 (RM3.50).
On June 27 2012 14:02 iky43210 wrote: The chinese will not play a game if it cannot be pirated or is free (few exception to this rule), with that set out sc2 is doom to fail in china and I don't see influx of new chinese generation gamers will pursue a decade old game when there are many free and more modern games out there such as LoL/dota2/counterstrikeclonex123/mmo
Racial stereotyping aside, this is caused more by the outrageous price point of games when compared with the average wage level in china right now, a brand new game like diablo 3 or SC2 costs upwards of 400 rmb when converted, easily over a pre-university student's monthly allowance if he's in the middle or lower class. I'm chinese and I pay for all my games on steam because I have the previlege of paying for them from official sources over seas, there's alot of stigma against even "official" game retailers in china because piracy is so rampant - which again, is not caused by lower moral standards or w/e, but just the fact that the people didn't have money.
Like for example: The average wage levels of a lower to lower-middle class employee working in China's urban areas is around 2000-3000 rmb per month, where as the middle to upper-middle class make anywhere between 3000-10000 on average (the upper class makes a ridiculously higher sum of money but that's true in most societies), a PS3 or Xbox360 or upgraded PC set up could cost upwards of a few thousand rmb or even upward into the ten thousands. The proportion it is to your income is huge. People in the west complain about full price games being 60$ USD or Euro, but that's a much smaller proportion when compared to your average income level than say 400 rmb to 2000 rmb.
I'm pulling the figures right now off bnet, it's been 2 and a half years since SC2's come out, and it's still ~300 HK $ which translates to around 250, where as diablo 3 is 399 or 525. It could attribute to more than 20% of a middle class family's monthly disposable income, it's alot.
its not racial stereotyping, its marketing and business sense, which I severely thinks Blizzard asia department is completely incompetent just by looking at the bridges they burn in China such as the deal with the9 and the fiasco with diablo 3 and Korean customers. Their product manager should've raised many red flags when they decide to make return of the lich king with WoW
It's marketing and business sense in the respect that western companies are not willing to lower their price points, that's literally it. Baidu is successful in China, China Mobile/unicom is successful in China, as is Microsoft and Apple. Apple markets itself to the upper class in China to avoid the price point conflict, and Microsoft turns a blind eye to lower price points and piracy to ensure their hold on the market. Nothing about it has anything to do with the Chinese' understanding of intellectual property. Google bombed out of China where as Baidu is massively profitable.
hardware is not software. Hardware has plenty of worth to Asia consumers
So... Baidu/microsoft/apple IOS/China Mobile/unicom phone operating system software is hardware? Most of the most profitable companies in China are software companies that provide services for Phones, computers, and so forth. Microsoft has continued its XP system and support in China for far longer than its expected life span due to its lower price point. And also, hardware doesn't hold intellectual property? >_>
I high light the keyword. Sell to businesses, cause they are entities and not individuals that must respect intellectual properties
microsoft made a windfall in china because they were able to get legislature to pass that all computers must be sold with a legitimate operating system. They have tried cutting costs to their OS with no avail back in the 2005s, now they just try to fight it with law enforcements in the 2010s
Your argument is that piracy stems from the lack of observation to intellectual property. What sense does it make that individuals do not respect properties where as entities do? What corporatism is this? If all the emcompassing individuals in an entity or institution do not respect intellectual property why would they when collected together. And if society is an entity made out of emcompassing individuals, why would the same rule not apply? Does it occur to you that again, people are pirating not because they disrespect the property, but because they are poor? Companies have money and therefore pay for them, your observation that businesses pay for them just back this up.
My argument is simply this:in these areas, for the lower and middle class, they do not have the disposable income and therefore they pirate, not as the result of disrespecting intellectual property, but as the result of either ignorance to the matter (which is different from ignoring the matter selectively once told) and lack of disposal income to spend on it.
It's a extremely insulting generalization to say that "The chinese will not play a game if it cannot be pirated or is free" or that "Asia customers(beside Japan) just don't have the same beliefs in intellectual properties as the westerners".
So your argument is that because people are poor, it's okay to steal?
On June 27 2012 14:02 iky43210 wrote: The chinese will not play a game if it cannot be pirated or is free (few exception to this rule), with that set out sc2 is doom to fail in china and I don't see influx of new chinese generation gamers will pursue a decade old game when there are many free and more modern games out there such as LoL/dota2/counterstrikeclonex123/mmo
Racial stereotyping aside, this is caused more by the outrageous price point of games when compared with the average wage level in china right now, a brand new game like diablo 3 or SC2 costs upwards of 400 rmb when converted, easily over a pre-university student's monthly allowance if he's in the middle or lower class. I'm chinese and I pay for all my games on steam because I have the previlege of paying for them from official sources over seas, there's alot of stigma against even "official" game retailers in china because piracy is so rampant - which again, is not caused by lower moral standards or w/e, but just the fact that the people didn't have money.
Like for example: The average wage levels of a lower to lower-middle class employee working in China's urban areas is around 2000-3000 rmb per month, where as the middle to upper-middle class make anywhere between 3000-10000 on average (the upper class makes a ridiculously higher sum of money but that's true in most societies), a PS3 or Xbox360 or upgraded PC set up could cost upwards of a few thousand rmb or even upward into the ten thousands. The proportion it is to your income is huge. People in the west complain about full price games being 60$ USD or Euro, but that's a much smaller proportion when compared to your average income level than say 400 rmb to 2000 rmb.
I'm pulling the figures right now off bnet, it's been 2 and a half years since SC2's come out, and it's still ~300 HK $ which translates to around 250, where as diablo 3 is 399 or 525. It could attribute to more than 20% of a middle class family's monthly disposable income, it's alot.
its not racial stereotyping, its marketing and business sense, which I severely thinks Blizzard asia department is completely incompetent just by looking at the bridges they burn in China such as the deal with the9 and the fiasco with diablo 3 and Korean customers. Their product manager should've raised many red flags when they decide to make return of the lich king with WoW
It's marketing and business sense in the respect that western companies are not willing to lower their price points, that's literally it. Baidu is successful in China, China Mobile/unicom is successful in China, as is Microsoft and Apple. Apple markets itself to the upper class in China to avoid the price point conflict, and Microsoft turns a blind eye to lower price points and piracy to ensure their hold on the market. Nothing about it has anything to do with the Chinese' understanding of intellectual property. Google bombed out of China where as Baidu is massively profitable.
hardware is not software. Hardware has plenty of worth to Asia consumers
So... Baidu/microsoft/apple IOS/China Mobile/unicom phone operating system software is hardware? Most of the most profitable companies in China are software companies that provide services for Phones, computers, and so forth. Microsoft has continued its XP system and support in China for far longer than its expected life span due to its lower price point. And also, hardware doesn't hold intellectual property? >_>
I high light the keyword. Sell to businesses, cause they are entities and not individuals that must respect intellectual properties
microsoft made a windfall in china because they were able to get legislature to pass that all computers must be sold with a legitimate operating system. They have tried cutting costs to their OS with no avail back in the 2005s, now they just try to fight it with law enforcements in the 2010s
Your argument is that piracy stems from the lack of observation to intellectual property. What sense does it make that individuals do not respect properties where as entities do? What corporatism is this? If all the emcompassing individuals in an entity or institution do not respect intellectual property why would they when collected together. And if society is an entity made out of emcompassing individuals, why would the same rule not apply? Does it occur to you that again, people are pirating not because they disrespect the property, but because they are poor? Companies have money and therefore pay for them, your observation that businesses pay for them just back this up.
My argument is simply this:in these areas, for the lower and middle class, they do not have the disposable income and therefore they pirate, not as the result of disrespecting intellectual property, but as the result of either ignorance to the matter (which is different from ignoring the matter selectively once told) and lack of disposal income to spend on it.
It's a extremely insulting generalization to say that "The chinese will not play a game if it cannot be pirated or is free" or that "Asia customers(beside Japan) just don't have the same beliefs in intellectual properties as the westerners".
So your argument is that because people are poor, it's okay to steal?
Sayle, what? I thought you were more clear headed than this, I'm rationalizing the behaviour and saying it didn't come from a disregard for intellectual property. And that it can be changed with education (removing ignorance) and removing poverty. Since when did I defend the behaviour, I just said it's the result of people being poor, it's important to understand why people do certain things so you don't get on misguided moral crusades like this guy. I'm actively doing things in my social circle to prevent piracy, I haven't pirated anything since 2002.
When a poor man steals bread because he can't afford it and he needs to eat and doesn't know better, and doesn't have the platform to enumerate his labour into currency, it's alot different from a rich man stealing from the poor intentionally when he doesn't need it at all, and justifying it with some corporate bull shit about maximizing his own profits. Both actions are immoral but different in nature.
Edit: Also i'm fed up as fuck with people coming into random threads, seeing that it contains the word "china" in it, then saying some generalized bull shit about China or Asia, so I'm sorry if I got carried away. That was literally his cue, he just came into the thread, didn't even read what it was about, then saying that Chinese people only pirate or play games that are free, then generalizing Asian people (including S.Korea) about not having beliefs in intellectual property. Would this stand if I came into a NASL thread and started saying random shit about America for no reason?
Guys, this piracy discussion has nothing to do with the thread. Please keep things on topic. Warnings and cruel, cruel punishment will be handed out from this post on.
If anyone is planning to cast / restream / post results or anything of the sort please pm me, if yall want a tournament thread made after this also vote in the polls
@ anything else understanding Chinese (if Caihead is too busy), the link is kind of a jump start to those wishing to make a LR thread.
I think this is the first broadcast of the league. Reason why this group have to be played first? Conflict of time with JayStar so organizers decided to proceed.
@ anything else understanding Chinese (if Caihead is too busy), the link is kind of a jump start to those wishing to make a LR thread.
I think this is the first broadcast of the league. Reason why this group have to be played first? Conflict of time with JayStar so organizers decided to proceed.
On June 26 2012 00:24 renzy wrote: JXSA_lower looks to be mihu. He's a crazy ass 350 APM terran and I think he should be a favorite to win this since people like PJ and F91 don't appear to be playing.
i am from China ,,,JXSA_lower is mihu ,,it is said that he will win the champion... by the way ,,i am surprised that you know mihu ..how did you get it??
On June 26 2012 03:36 Ribbon wrote: Well, that's unexpected
Not unwelcome, though. Pretty awesome, in fact. It'll probably take a year or three for Chinese pros to get up to the level we're used to, but this is the first really good news BW fans have had in a long time.
I wonder how many Koreans will move to China to play.
just a very small game..and it is hard for other country's players to join ...by the way ,,i am from china.
On June 26 2012 04:27 Marti wrote: How big is the chinese scene ? How much money is that ( from a chinese perspective, i know what 1300 $ is worth, ) ? Do they know there is a foreign scene ? Will they let us stream their event ?
i think that they will ...i know ..for i am from china
On June 26 2012 12:06 Woj wrote: Wow, pretty interesting.
Now maybe all the big BW Koreans will just move to China rather than to SC2 =P
The Chinese scene is alot smaller in terms of sponsorship than Korea or even foreign, partially because it's not seen as a legitimate past time or occupation by people from the 60s-70s (who are parents now) who don't allow their children to participate in them. Mostly because of the stigma against video games in China as the educational system is so rigid and strict and it's seen as detrimental for children to play games even as a past time, most parents (including mine) restrict if not outright not allow their children to play games during elementary to high school. And usually they see it as a waste of time going into university / work life any ways. People who are fervant about video games in China usually have to seek solidarity in small privately financed groups that barely get by and hope for corporate sponsorship which is few and far between; they also have to do so against social pressures to conform to a traditional education / work process, video games is simply not seen as a legitimate way of life by traditional parents from the 60s to 70s.
Most of the community leaders are people born in the 80s who are much more open about video games as their exposure to them were in high school / university when they had some degree of freedom, rather than the post-90s crowd now who are restricted by an aware parent generation due to the increasing stress and competitiveness of chinese schools and exams.
In short I don't see how Chinese (mainland) Esports can take off in the same way as of now, most SC2 progamers you see from China are either from taiwan / hongkong / coastal cities where there is the financial back ground / luxury to pursue these past times, or live in relative hardship when compared with foreign progamers like the ones at EG. It's almost unthinkeable to have a team house in China if you are just starting out as a progamer, even now most of the recognized progamers play from their homes and their clan prescence is via online rather than via same physical location. There would need to be a change in public mentality against the stigma of gamers.
Also major korean BW players are all trying to switch over to SC2 for financial stability, China's esports market is so volatile due to stigmas, pirating (adding to the seeming illegitimacy), and lack of regulation. I don't see KR progamers risking it to expand in China, unfortunately.
That being said "real" chinese gamers, i.e. ones connecting to the scene rather than just playing single player games they pirated from the internet (not saying that there's anything wrong with that other than the pirating), are very fervent and go out of their way to make things like this possible. So there is hope for domestic growth.
Didn't the chinese dota 1 teams have gaming houses? Afaik being a dota progamer in one of the top teams would net you a salary similar to what one would expect as a freashly graduated uni student. From what I have seen of chinese dota events, bw should stand a good chance of having a continuous league.
most chinese people play mobas / custom WC3 maps because it's seen as casual / sociable and less intense than competitive RTS, so alot more people got into it than BW. WC3 and Dota in China is equivalent to BW in KR, but again usually students are told by parents to study for graduating at a top uni rather than gaming, and if their grades were bad parents often blamed video games and didn't let them play any ways.
You also have to realize that the salary for a freshly graduated uni student in china is on the level of lower-middle class, it's really not a sustaineable solution for forming a family, all traditional chinese parents aim for the long run. There is definitely money in esports in china, but it's not seen as legitimate.
On June 26 2012 12:06 Woj wrote: Wow, pretty interesting.
Now maybe all the big BW Koreans will just move to China rather than to SC2 =P
The Chinese scene is alot smaller in terms of sponsorship than Korea or even foreign, partially because it's not seen as a legitimate past time or occupation by people from the 60s-70s (who are parents now) who don't allow their children to participate in them. Mostly because of the stigma against video games in China as the educational system is so rigid and strict and it's seen as detrimental for children to play games even as a past time, most parents (including mine) restrict if not outright not allow their children to play games during elementary to high school. And usually they see it as a waste of time going into university / work life any ways. People who are fervant about video games in China usually have to seek solidarity in small privately financed groups that barely get by and hope for corporate sponsorship which is few and far between; they also have to do so against social pressures to conform to a traditional education / work process, video games is simply not seen as a legitimate way of life by traditional parents from the 60s to 70s.
Most of the community leaders are people born in the 80s who are much more open about video games as their exposure to them were in high school / university when they had some degree of freedom, rather than the post-90s crowd now who are restricted by an aware parent generation due to the increasing stress and competitiveness of chinese schools and exams.
In short I don't see how Chinese (mainland) Esports can take off in the same way as of now, most SC2 progamers you see from China are either from taiwan / hongkong / coastal cities where there is the financial back ground / luxury to pursue these past times, or live in relative hardship when compared with foreign progamers like the ones at EG. It's almost unthinkeable to have a team house in China if you are just starting out as a progamer, even now most of the recognized progamers play from their homes and their clan prescence is via online rather than via same physical location. There would need to be a change in public mentality against the stigma of gamers.
Also major korean BW players are all trying to switch over to SC2 for financial stability, China's esports market is so volatile due to stigmas, pirating (adding to the seeming illegitimacy), and lack of regulation. I don't see KR progamers risking it to expand in China, unfortunately.
That being said "real" chinese gamers, i.e. ones connecting to the scene rather than just playing single player games they pirated from the internet (not saying that there's anything wrong with that other than the pirating), are very fervent and go out of their way to make things like this possible. So there is hope for domestic growth.
Didn't the chinese dota 1 teams have gaming houses? Afaik being a dota progamer in one of the top teams would net you a salary similar to what one would expect as a freashly graduated uni student. From what I have seen of chinese dota events, bw should stand a good chance of having a continuous league.
most chinese people play mobas / custom WC3 maps because it's seen as casual / sociable and less intense than competitive RTS, so alot more people got into it than BW. WC3 and Dota in China is equivalent to BW in KR, but again usually students are told by parents to study for graduating at a top uni rather than gaming, and if their grades were bad parents often blamed video games and didn't let them play any ways.
You also have to realize that the salary for a freshly graduated uni student in china is on the level of lower-middle class, it's really not a sustaineable solution for forming a family, all traditional chinese parents aim for the long run. There is definitely money in esports in china, but it's not seen as legitimate.
On June 26 2012 12:06 Woj wrote: Wow, pretty interesting.
Now maybe all the big BW Koreans will just move to China rather than to SC2 =P
The Chinese scene is alot smaller in terms of sponsorship than Korea or even foreign, partially because it's not seen as a legitimate past time or occupation by people from the 60s-70s (who are parents now) who don't allow their children to participate in them. Mostly because of the stigma against video games in China as the educational system is so rigid and strict and it's seen as detrimental for children to play games even as a past time, most parents (including mine) restrict if not outright not allow their children to play games during elementary to high school. And usually they see it as a waste of time going into university / work life any ways. People who are fervant about video games in China usually have to seek solidarity in small privately financed groups that barely get by and hope for corporate sponsorship which is few and far between; they also have to do so against social pressures to conform to a traditional education / work process, video games is simply not seen as a legitimate way of life by traditional parents from the 60s to 70s.
Most of the community leaders are people born in the 80s who are much more open about video games as their exposure to them were in high school / university when they had some degree of freedom, rather than the post-90s crowd now who are restricted by an aware parent generation due to the increasing stress and competitiveness of chinese schools and exams.
In short I don't see how Chinese (mainland) Esports can take off in the same way as of now, most SC2 progamers you see from China are either from taiwan / hongkong / coastal cities where there is the financial back ground / luxury to pursue these past times, or live in relative hardship when compared with foreign progamers like the ones at EG. It's almost unthinkeable to have a team house in China if you are just starting out as a progamer, even now most of the recognized progamers play from their homes and their clan prescence is via online rather than via same physical location. There would need to be a change in public mentality against the stigma of gamers.
Also major korean BW players are all trying to switch over to SC2 for financial stability, China's esports market is so volatile due to stigmas, pirating (adding to the seeming illegitimacy), and lack of regulation. I don't see KR progamers risking it to expand in China, unfortunately.
That being said "real" chinese gamers, i.e. ones connecting to the scene rather than just playing single player games they pirated from the internet (not saying that there's anything wrong with that other than the pirating), are very fervent and go out of their way to make things like this possible. So there is hope for domestic growth.
Didn't the chinese dota 1 teams have gaming houses? Afaik being a dota progamer in one of the top teams would net you a salary similar to what one would expect as a freashly graduated uni student. From what I have seen of chinese dota events, bw should stand a good chance of having a continuous league.
most chinese people play mobas / custom WC3 maps because it's seen as casual / sociable and less intense than competitive RTS, so alot more people got into it than BW. WC3 and Dota in China is equivalent to BW in KR, but again usually students are told by parents to study for graduating at a top uni rather than gaming, and if their grades were bad parents often blamed video games and didn't let them play any ways.
You also have to realize that the salary for a freshly graduated uni student in china is on the level of lower-middle class, it's really not a sustaineable solution for forming a family, all traditional chinese parents aim for the long run. There is definitely money in esports in china, but it's not seen as legitimate.
On June 26 2012 12:06 Woj wrote: Wow, pretty interesting.
Now maybe all the big BW Koreans will just move to China rather than to SC2 =P
The Chinese scene is alot smaller in terms of sponsorship than Korea or even foreign, partially because it's not seen as a legitimate past time or occupation by people from the 60s-70s (who are parents now) who don't allow their children to participate in them. Mostly because of the stigma against video games in China as the educational system is so rigid and strict and it's seen as detrimental for children to play games even as a past time, most parents (including mine) restrict if not outright not allow their children to play games during elementary to high school. And usually they see it as a waste of time going into university / work life any ways. People who are fervant about video games in China usually have to seek solidarity in small privately financed groups that barely get by and hope for corporate sponsorship which is few and far between; they also have to do so against social pressures to conform to a traditional education / work process, video games is simply not seen as a legitimate way of life by traditional parents from the 60s to 70s.
Most of the community leaders are people born in the 80s who are much more open about video games as their exposure to them were in high school / university when they had some degree of freedom, rather than the post-90s crowd now who are restricted by an aware parent generation due to the increasing stress and competitiveness of chinese schools and exams.
In short I don't see how Chinese (mainland) Esports can take off in the same way as of now, most SC2 progamers you see from China are either from taiwan / hongkong / coastal cities where there is the financial back ground / luxury to pursue these past times, or live in relative hardship when compared with foreign progamers like the ones at EG. It's almost unthinkeable to have a team house in China if you are just starting out as a progamer, even now most of the recognized progamers play from their homes and their clan prescence is via online rather than via same physical location. There would need to be a change in public mentality against the stigma of gamers.
Also major korean BW players are all trying to switch over to SC2 for financial stability, China's esports market is so volatile due to stigmas, pirating (adding to the seeming illegitimacy), and lack of regulation. I don't see KR progamers risking it to expand in China, unfortunately.
That being said "real" chinese gamers, i.e. ones connecting to the scene rather than just playing single player games they pirated from the internet (not saying that there's anything wrong with that other than the pirating), are very fervent and go out of their way to make things like this possible. So there is hope for domestic growth.
Didn't the chinese dota 1 teams have gaming houses? Afaik being a dota progamer in one of the top teams would net you a salary similar to what one would expect as a freashly graduated uni student. From what I have seen of chinese dota events, bw should stand a good chance of having a continuous league.
most chinese people play mobas / custom WC3 maps because it's seen as casual / sociable and less intense than competitive RTS, so alot more people got into it than BW. WC3 and Dota in China is equivalent to BW in KR, but again usually students are told by parents to study for graduating at a top uni rather than gaming, and if their grades were bad parents often blamed video games and didn't let them play any ways.
You also have to realize that the salary for a freshly graduated uni student in china is on the level of lower-middle class, it's really not a sustaineable solution for forming a family, all traditional chinese parents aim for the long run. There is definitely money in esports in china, but it's not seen as legitimate.
how much of an impact can the money have if they win the prize? is it like they won the jackpot and can affort so much more, or is it yust a regualer amount of money?
On June 30 2012 01:36 anonymousVendeta wrote: how much of an impact can the money have if they win the prize? is it like they won the jackpot and can affort so much more, or is it yust a regualer amount of money?
Depending on where they live and such 8400rmb could easily be around 5-8times the normal monthly salary.
On June 30 2012 01:36 anonymousVendeta wrote: how much of an impact can the money have if they win the prize? is it like they won the jackpot and can affort so much more, or is it yust a regualer amount of money?
Depending on where they live and such 8400rmb could easily be around 5-8times the normal monthly salary.
Well, the grand prize is only 4000, pro-gamers / teams in china basically have to fund themselves by advertising / merchandising / donations (or tips) and winning tournaments, so I wouldn't even compare monthly salaries to it.
On June 30 2012 01:36 anonymousVendeta wrote: how much of an impact can the money have if they win the prize? is it like they won the jackpot and can affort so much more, or is it yust a regualer amount of money?
Depending on where they live and such 8400rmb could easily be around 5-8times the normal monthly salary.
Well, the grand prize is only 4000, pro-gamers / teams in china basically have to fund themselves by advertising / merchandising / donations (or tips) and winning tournaments, so I wouldn't even compare monthly salaries to it.
Someone was curious how much money it was, so that's a good way to put it is all :> 4000rmb is about 2-4x a normal salary, or maybe x1 for a decent income man.
edit: since it's offline any idea what city/cities the matches are being played in?
On June 30 2012 01:36 anonymousVendeta wrote: how much of an impact can the money have if they win the prize? is it like they won the jackpot and can affort so much more, or is it yust a regualer amount of money?
Depending on where they live and such 8400rmb could easily be around 5-8times the normal monthly salary.
Well, the grand prize is only 4000, pro-gamers / teams in china basically have to fund themselves by advertising / merchandising / donations (or tips) and winning tournaments, so I wouldn't even compare monthly salaries to it.
Someone was curious how much money it was, so that's a good way to put it is all :> 4000rmb is about 2-4x a normal salary, or maybe x1 for a decent income man.
edit: since it's offline any idea what city/cities the matches are being played in?
it's usually over internet for players in different cities, they dont have the money to host locations for offline tournament
On June 30 2012 23:44 Xiphos wrote: The Chinese netizens seems to be really behind us. Some even mentioned future collaborations out of the passion for the game.
no worries we will establish communication sooner or later
Prelims are in progress. Some good games played tonight (Sat.) Players make some mistakes since they are not pros (no more pros in china now), but everyone has fighting spirit.
On July 01 2012 01:43 caiyan73 wrote: Prelims are in progress. Some good games played tonight (Sat.) Players make some mistakes since they are not pros (no more pros in china now), but everyone has fighting spirit.
Hi, I am currently making a Liquipedia page for the C-OSL, but I can't figure out how the players were matched to each other after Ro16. I built the brackets of the Ro16, putting matches in the alphabetical order, but the Ro8 I obtain is different from the actual Ro8, it looks like players were somehow reseeded after Ro16, I just don't get it. Was anyone able to figure out the format ?
Thanks
Edit : Nevermind, I figured it out. Ro16 matches were simply not ordered properly. They had given them names A,B,C etc. but Ro8 actually did not take care of this order.
On September 06 2012 12:05 endy wrote: Hi, I am currently making a Liquipedia page for the C-OSL, but I can't figure out how the players were matched to each other after Ro16. I built the brackets of the Ro16, putting matches in the alphabetical order, but the Ro8 I obtain is different from the actual Ro8, it looks like players were somehow reseeded after Ro16, I just don't get it. Was anyone able to figure out the format ?
Thanks
Is it hard to play for C-OSL? Can I qual somehow if I join a CN team?
I can help you ask Heroes[CN]. He was one of the organziers of past Chinese BW events. Though I'm not sure whether he can answer your questions, I think he can refer me to the the responsible person.
On September 06 2012 12:05 endy wrote: Hi, I am currently making a Liquipedia page for the C-OSL, but I can't figure out how the players were matched to each other after Ro16. I built the brackets of the Ro16, putting matches in the alphabetical order, but the Ro8 I obtain is different from the actual Ro8, it looks like players were somehow reseeded after Ro16, I just don't get it. Was anyone able to figure out the format ?
Thanks
Is it hard to play for C-OSL? Can I qual somehow if I join a CN team?
It should be ok. You'll have to pay a 3$ entrance fee.
Edit : I suggest you to PM HafNium on TL. It seems that you must non only be invited by a Chinese team, but also play for them for the team league to be eligible to play in the C-OSL.
On September 06 2012 12:05 endy wrote: Hi, I am currently making a Liquipedia page for the C-OSL, but I can't figure out how the players were matched to each other after Ro16. I built the brackets of the Ro16, putting matches in the alphabetical order, but the Ro8 I obtain is different from the actual Ro8, it looks like players were somehow reseeded after Ro16, I just don't get it. Was anyone able to figure out the format ?
Thanks
Is it hard to play for C-OSL? Can I qual somehow if I join a CN team?
Hi, draw, I have asked the organizer of C OSL, dingdong, and he said C OSL season 2 has already started, so you cant register for this event If you wish to play in next season, you have to join a CN team first, and play STL (Chinese SC league, which has 1x years history according to Heroes[CN] said).
Their most watched vod has only 16k viewers. Seems pretty small.
how many watched it live? or is that included?
live viewer ship usually out numbers total vod views (which is crazy I know), the only exceptions are famous games between reknowned players like TBLS where it racks up >50k vod views, even then I'm not sure because live viewer ship can peak above 20k regularly for BW, or at least used to.
On September 06 2012 12:05 endy wrote: Hi, I am currently making a Liquipedia page for the C-OSL, but I can't figure out how the players were matched to each other after Ro16. I built the brackets of the Ro16, putting matches in the alphabetical order, but the Ro8 I obtain is different from the actual Ro8, it looks like players were somehow reseeded after Ro16, I just don't get it. Was anyone able to figure out the format ?
Thanks
Is it hard to play for C-OSL? Can I qual somehow if I join a CN team?
Hi, draw, I have asked the organizer of C OSL, dingdong, and he said C OSL season 2 has already started, so you cant register for this event If you wish to play in next season, you have to join a CN team first, and play STL (Chinese SC league, which has 1x years history according to Heroes[CN] said).
Any CN Team looking for another toss? I will definitely play for them if I can get a chance in this league ^^
On September 06 2012 12:05 endy wrote: Hi, I am currently making a Liquipedia page for the C-OSL, but I can't figure out how the players were matched to each other after Ro16. I built the brackets of the Ro16, putting matches in the alphabetical order, but the Ro8 I obtain is different from the actual Ro8, it looks like players were somehow reseeded after Ro16, I just don't get it. Was anyone able to figure out the format ?
Thanks
Is it hard to play for C-OSL? Can I qual somehow if I join a CN team?
Hi, draw, I have asked the organizer of C OSL, dingdong, and he said C OSL season 2 has already started, so you cant register for this event If you wish to play in next season, you have to join a CN team first, and play STL (Chinese SC league, which has 1x years history according to Heroes[CN] said).
Any CN Team looking for another toss? I will definitely play for them if I can get a chance in this league ^^
Heroes[CN]'s team ,GP team, wants foreigners. He sees the trend of foreigners/koreans joining their league after scan participated. But the time for STL is saturday 2000 HKT. So it may not be so ideal for you. If you are still interested you can pm me.
1) he claimed that he was a practice partner on SKT, and that was debunked 2) he streamed on TL 3) he cheated in one of the community events (possibly TSL?) and was therefore permanently shunned
On December 04 2012 00:35 Cambium wrote: can someone tell me exactly who Scan is?
I know
1) he claimed that he was a practice partner on SKT, and that was debunked 2) he streamed on TL 3) he cheated in one of the community events (possibly TSL?) and was therefore permanently shunned
1) he claimed that he was an ex-progamer on SKT, and that was debunked*
On December 04 2012 00:35 Cambium wrote: can someone tell me exactly who Scan is?
I know
1) he claimed that he was a practice partner on SKT, and that was debunked 2) he streamed on TL 3) he cheated in one of the community events (possibly TSL?) and was therefore permanently shunned
1) he claimed that he was an ex-progamer on SKT, and that was debunked*
On December 04 2012 00:35 Cambium wrote: can someone tell me exactly who Scan is?
I know
1) he claimed that he was a practice partner on SKT, and that was debunked 2) he streamed on TL 3) he cheated in one of the community events (possibly TSL?) and was therefore permanently shunned
1) he claimed that he was an ex-progamer on SKT, and that was debunked*
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ncczm.png)
![[image loading]](http://defiler.ru/core/shoutbox/smiles-visible/troll.png)
I will definitely play for them if I can get a chance in this league ^^
