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If you derail this thread to argue about SC2 vs BW in any context other than that of the interview (e.g. saying things like "colosi suck" or "all BW fans are elitist jerks!"), I will ban you for at least a week, if not more. This is your only warning. I added this page 17
You have been warned
~GMarshal |
I also find it interesting how Stork is the only one (so far) to complain about the death of BW. So far most players have either said its kinda hard or that its hard switching from sc2 to bw, but not the other way round. Others have said its okay / they treat them as completely different games... Even Jaedong said "time is time" or something like that.. Essentially that they have no control over it and must do what they must. I was expecting a little more grief over the situation from the players themselves. I'm sure a majority of the players feel this way but their teams / PR (coughkespacough) have told them what to say.. Really gives an insight to Korean culture.
Well, heres to hoping for a bw revolution..
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On May 23 2012 15:18 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 14:57 AeroEffect wrote:On May 23 2012 10:22 Ribbon wrote:On May 23 2012 09:39 Xiphos wrote:On May 23 2012 09:35 Ribbon wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what Stork's grievance is. Does he want to go back to BW, skip this hybrid business and go straight to SC2, or just set up some kind of system for players who get lost in the transition? Is the transition the issue, the way the transition is happening, or just progamer life in general under KeSPA being pushed to a breaking point?
What exactly does he want this players association to do? Players have little to no control about the decisions of the corporate and are basically forced into what ever tasks presented to them. Stork says "enough is enough, let's take back what is ours." and we go "Hell, its about time!" About time for what, exactly? You can't stay on BW without cutting players because the scene is smaller. That is simply a fact. 2007 is not coming back. I'd love to hear a realistic proposal of what's actually the best thing for the players. The options are 1. Stay in BW, but go smaller 2. Switch to SC2 and pray for the best (Current plan) 3. Keep the hybrid proleague, but alternate ace match between BW and SC2, and remove the requirement for players to alternate (in effect, having a half-size BW league glued awkwardly to an SC2 league forever). That's really the only middle ground on the switch front Or is he talking about something tangentially related, like having a program to get BW players who wash out of the SC2 league a chance to go back to school and not be janitors for the rest of their lives? I'm just not sure he's talking about the switch itself, but that the switch hurts a lot of players and no one seems to care. The way you say things are very disrespectful but I do agree with you. BW is no longer in its prime and trying to get it back to that point would not only shrink both the BW and SC2 scene, but will promote other games in its place that have less tension (LoL, DotA, etc..) Not trying to disrespectful to any BW fans myself in the least bit but after the current BW players are done and retire, then whos next? I dont see anymore up and coming BW players (not saying that there arent any around). On the other hand, there are tons of undiscovered sc2 players out there with potential. BW was nice but its been what 12 years? Back on subject though. These companies that sponser these teams and run the tournaments dont care about the players, as long as they get money. Thats how its always been in all sports. Thats how it always has been in life. Money. The players can complain and even go on strike if they wanted but I wouldnt expect much to change at all. Killer and Brave.
Afrotoss, Turn, BByong, Bogus, Baby
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On May 23 2012 15:18 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 14:57 AeroEffect wrote:On May 23 2012 10:22 Ribbon wrote:On May 23 2012 09:39 Xiphos wrote:On May 23 2012 09:35 Ribbon wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what Stork's grievance is. Does he want to go back to BW, skip this hybrid business and go straight to SC2, or just set up some kind of system for players who get lost in the transition? Is the transition the issue, the way the transition is happening, or just progamer life in general under KeSPA being pushed to a breaking point?
What exactly does he want this players association to do? Players have little to no control about the decisions of the corporate and are basically forced into what ever tasks presented to them. Stork says "enough is enough, let's take back what is ours." and we go "Hell, its about time!" About time for what, exactly? You can't stay on BW without cutting players because the scene is smaller. That is simply a fact. 2007 is not coming back. I'd love to hear a realistic proposal of what's actually the best thing for the players. The options are 1. Stay in BW, but go smaller 2. Switch to SC2 and pray for the best (Current plan) 3. Keep the hybrid proleague, but alternate ace match between BW and SC2, and remove the requirement for players to alternate (in effect, having a half-size BW league glued awkwardly to an SC2 league forever). That's really the only middle ground on the switch front Or is he talking about something tangentially related, like having a program to get BW players who wash out of the SC2 league a chance to go back to school and not be janitors for the rest of their lives? I'm just not sure he's talking about the switch itself, but that the switch hurts a lot of players and no one seems to care. The way you say things are very disrespectful but I do agree with you. BW is no longer in its prime and trying to get it back to that point would not only shrink both the BW and SC2 scene, but will promote other games in its place that have less tension (LoL, DotA, etc..) Not trying to disrespectful to any BW fans myself in the least bit but after the current BW players are done and retire, then whos next? I dont see anymore up and coming BW players (not saying that there arent any around). On the other hand, there are tons of undiscovered sc2 players out there with potential. BW was nice but its been what 12 years? Back on subject though. These companies that sponser these teams and run the tournaments dont care about the players, as long as they get money. Thats how its always been in all sports. Thats how it always has been in life. Money. The players can complain and even go on strike if they wanted but I wouldnt expect much to change at all. Killer and Brave.
They are already pro though. and who will compete with them? some lower than b-team players?
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On May 23 2012 15:24 AeroEffect wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 15:18 ShadeR wrote:On May 23 2012 14:57 AeroEffect wrote:On May 23 2012 10:22 Ribbon wrote:On May 23 2012 09:39 Xiphos wrote:On May 23 2012 09:35 Ribbon wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what Stork's grievance is. Does he want to go back to BW, skip this hybrid business and go straight to SC2, or just set up some kind of system for players who get lost in the transition? Is the transition the issue, the way the transition is happening, or just progamer life in general under KeSPA being pushed to a breaking point?
What exactly does he want this players association to do? Players have little to no control about the decisions of the corporate and are basically forced into what ever tasks presented to them. Stork says "enough is enough, let's take back what is ours." and we go "Hell, its about time!" About time for what, exactly? You can't stay on BW without cutting players because the scene is smaller. That is simply a fact. 2007 is not coming back. I'd love to hear a realistic proposal of what's actually the best thing for the players. The options are 1. Stay in BW, but go smaller 2. Switch to SC2 and pray for the best (Current plan) 3. Keep the hybrid proleague, but alternate ace match between BW and SC2, and remove the requirement for players to alternate (in effect, having a half-size BW league glued awkwardly to an SC2 league forever). That's really the only middle ground on the switch front Or is he talking about something tangentially related, like having a program to get BW players who wash out of the SC2 league a chance to go back to school and not be janitors for the rest of their lives? I'm just not sure he's talking about the switch itself, but that the switch hurts a lot of players and no one seems to care. The way you say things are very disrespectful but I do agree with you. BW is no longer in its prime and trying to get it back to that point would not only shrink both the BW and SC2 scene, but will promote other games in its place that have less tension (LoL, DotA, etc..) Not trying to disrespectful to any BW fans myself in the least bit but after the current BW players are done and retire, then whos next? I dont see anymore up and coming BW players (not saying that there arent any around). On the other hand, there are tons of undiscovered sc2 players out there with potential. BW was nice but its been what 12 years? Back on subject though. These companies that sponser these teams and run the tournaments dont care about the players, as long as they get money. Thats how its always been in all sports. Thats how it always has been in life. Money. The players can complain and even go on strike if they wanted but I wouldnt expect much to change at all. Killer and Brave. They are already pro though. and who will compete with them? some lower than b-team players?
There are still the draft AFAIK and the High School Amateur League. Courage Tournament were supposed to get some fresh players
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He is right!
There should be a players association.
Right now all we hearing is what corporations says. Granted they have the money but I'd love to hear more on what the players think/want for the future of Starcraft.
Although I love the idea that they are all switching to SC2 but they way this is being done with the proleague format and all just seems wrong. It really feels like they are being "forced" to rather than choosing to make the switch now.
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On May 23 2012 14:59 letian wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 14:21 Sawamura wrote:On May 23 2012 14:18 Veldril wrote:On May 23 2012 12:43 OopsOopsBaby wrote:On May 23 2012 11:46 sluggaslamoo wrote:On May 23 2012 10:22 Ribbon wrote:On May 23 2012 09:39 Xiphos wrote:On May 23 2012 09:35 Ribbon wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what Stork's grievance is. Does he want to go back to BW, skip this hybrid business and go straight to SC2, or just set up some kind of system for players who get lost in the transition? Is the transition the issue, the way the transition is happening, or just progamer life in general under KeSPA being pushed to a breaking point?
What exactly does he want this players association to do? Players have little to no control about the decisions of the corporate and are basically forced into what ever tasks presented to them. Stork says "enough is enough, let's take back what is ours." and we go "Hell, its about time!" About time for what, exactly? You can't stay on BW without cutting players because the scene is smaller. That is simply a fact. 2007 is not coming back. I'd love to hear a realistic proposal of what's actually the best thing for the players. The options are 1. Stay in BW, but go smaller 2. Switch to SC2 and pray for the best (Current plan) 3. Keep the hybrid proleague, but alternate ace match between BW and SC2, and remove the requirement for players to alternate (in effect, having a half-size BW league glued awkwardly to an SC2 league forever). That's really the only middle ground on the switch front Or is he talking about something tangentially related, like having a program to get BW players who wash out of the SC2 league a chance to go back to school and not be janitors for the rest of their lives? I'm just not sure he's talking about the switch itself, but that the switch hurts a lot of players and no one seems to care. This has nothing to do with BW to SC2 transition. The problem is Kespa hasn't given a shit about its players since its inception, and not showing the maps and the mixed format was the straw that broke the camels back for Stork. Players have no say in what happens in the leagues or the maps that make it into the pool, and have their hands tied by the stupid kespa progamer licenses. Kespa nearly killed BW when it conjured the "license to broadcast starcraft" from thin air, and then sold it back to OGN for a sum that nearly made them go broke. Kespa simply controls everything that happens without any player input, and any smallfry who talk back fear that they get their license revoked, which is why nobody has complained. Because Stork is such a high profile player, he used his 100 wins achievement to segway into making light of an issue that most progamers had feared to speak up about. read the article again. When we were only playing BW, Kespa would first initiate a map test but for this Starleague, the players were only given the final version of the maps the day before the opening. stork talks about kespa stop giving a shit about bw matters in this case releasing of maps is the example. This season's BW maps are an example, if you look at the vast majority of the things Kespa has done, the players' opinions have not once been taken into account. It might not matter to players who earn a lot of money but as a whole, if the top players and middle ranking players don't do well at SC2, it is the end for them. stork talks about kespa forcing sc2 onto them without getting their opinions. it is unfortunate but the context is bw to sc2 transition. Hypothetically, if KesPa did not decide to switch to SC2 and still could not find an external sponsor for BW leagues, then the BW scene could collapse as a whole, which would mean that all players would lose their job. I would say that would be more damaging than transitioning. The problem is that how KesPa handles the transition is just bad. They could call up a conference and explain/discuss the need of transition with the players, delay the Proleague until OSL completes and give them more time to practice the new game without having to play two games at the same time. That would make life a lot easier for Progamers. I don't argue the need of the player union, though. Players should have some saying in how them are going to be treated. On May 23 2012 14:03 Sawamura wrote:On May 23 2012 13:47 RageCommodore wrote:On May 23 2012 12:55 empty.bottle wrote:On May 23 2012 12:44 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Huh. I wonder what made him so stressed he was crying? Sure, the stuff he outlined was very bad, but I don't think it's bad enough to bring tears to his eyes, especially in an interview that was going to the public. Maybe there's a bit more than just issues with player feedback. LOL, that's cause you don't understand what BW means to them, how could you? How could I? But this I know, Sc2 players play for the money. BW players play because they love what they do. Seriously, this is fucking retarded bullshit. Many players on korean sc2 teams don't even get a salary. Hundreds of people are attending the code A qualifiers because they dream to one day win a GSL, to go down into history. By saying that they "only play for the money" is fucking disrespectful for the ones that give it all just to have a shot at glory. You just said "fuck you" to all the guys that are grinding their hearts out in team houses, or alone at home, just to fulfill their dream of being a progamer. There are so many people out there that don't just care for the money. Stop being freaking short sighted. Just because you hate SC2, you have no right to look down on the people that play it. Fuck this, I can't belive I just wasted my 500th post on you. I don't think gsl success will ever move me the way Hotforever did for his team sacrificing his winnings for his team so they do not starve for few months and only surviving on instant noodles . If you compared back than and the current pro gaming life. It is in a much better environment than it is previously . Seriously go read the tlfe titled piano man. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78884
Shortly after the tournament, H.O.T was a genuine superstar. A film crew for a TV station decided to visit the SM team house to film a documentary about progame teams. The team was so poor, they had no food. With embarrassment written all over him, Coach Jae Kyun began to try and boil some ramen to eat while the TV crew filmed it for all of the world to see. This was the kind of life a professional game team offered.
If you tell me currently the pro gaming teams are in this kind of situation I would be rolling on the floor laughing. It's not that bad but many players in Korea still donate prize money to the team to help them out. Many have to come up with a new business model in order to stay alive (ex. Prime open a cloth shop with their players as models). oGs, which was just disbanded, pretty much relied on some of the prize money that their players win at the beginning. So yeah, it's not that bad but it's still difficult for SC2 team in Korea right now, and that's why many Korean players try to find a foreign team. I am no way playing down the difficulty about the sc2 players who are facing right now but if I compared to the days when broodwar pro gamers started appearing on the scene the professional environment for teams was really bad that all you had in you was your passion to play the game even if it means sleeping under the table of the cybercafe after your long 14 hours practice of broodwar. And there were times when ppl used stones and sticks... And there were times when there were no PC's and nobody really cared.. And there are still countries where ppl starve to death, so what do these progamers moan about? This is what your logic looks like. Moreover since you are not progamer, I guess you are in no position to make this kind of judgements. I hope the Korean legislation concerning underage labor will be reworked. At this level, they need a professional union and not only for SC.
Funny thing is in china child labour is still at large if you want to talk fairness on a global perspective you must be some kind of some of a saint than.
On May 23 2012 14:40 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 14:21 Sawamura wrote:On May 23 2012 14:18 Veldril wrote:On May 23 2012 12:43 OopsOopsBaby wrote:On May 23 2012 11:46 sluggaslamoo wrote:On May 23 2012 10:22 Ribbon wrote:On May 23 2012 09:39 Xiphos wrote:On May 23 2012 09:35 Ribbon wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what Stork's grievance is. Does he want to go back to BW, skip this hybrid business and go straight to SC2, or just set up some kind of system for players who get lost in the transition? Is the transition the issue, the way the transition is happening, or just progamer life in general under KeSPA being pushed to a breaking point?
What exactly does he want this players association to do? Players have little to no control about the decisions of the corporate and are basically forced into what ever tasks presented to them. Stork says "enough is enough, let's take back what is ours." and we go "Hell, its about time!" About time for what, exactly? You can't stay on BW without cutting players because the scene is smaller. That is simply a fact. 2007 is not coming back. I'd love to hear a realistic proposal of what's actually the best thing for the players. The options are 1. Stay in BW, but go smaller 2. Switch to SC2 and pray for the best (Current plan) 3. Keep the hybrid proleague, but alternate ace match between BW and SC2, and remove the requirement for players to alternate (in effect, having a half-size BW league glued awkwardly to an SC2 league forever). That's really the only middle ground on the switch front Or is he talking about something tangentially related, like having a program to get BW players who wash out of the SC2 league a chance to go back to school and not be janitors for the rest of their lives? I'm just not sure he's talking about the switch itself, but that the switch hurts a lot of players and no one seems to care. This has nothing to do with BW to SC2 transition. The problem is Kespa hasn't given a shit about its players since its inception, and not showing the maps and the mixed format was the straw that broke the camels back for Stork. Players have no say in what happens in the leagues or the maps that make it into the pool, and have their hands tied by the stupid kespa progamer licenses. Kespa nearly killed BW when it conjured the "license to broadcast starcraft" from thin air, and then sold it back to OGN for a sum that nearly made them go broke. Kespa simply controls everything that happens without any player input, and any smallfry who talk back fear that they get their license revoked, which is why nobody has complained. Because Stork is such a high profile player, he used his 100 wins achievement to segway into making light of an issue that most progamers had feared to speak up about. read the article again. When we were only playing BW, Kespa would first initiate a map test but for this Starleague, the players were only given the final version of the maps the day before the opening. stork talks about kespa stop giving a shit about bw matters in this case releasing of maps is the example. This season's BW maps are an example, if you look at the vast majority of the things Kespa has done, the players' opinions have not once been taken into account. It might not matter to players who earn a lot of money but as a whole, if the top players and middle ranking players don't do well at SC2, it is the end for them. stork talks about kespa forcing sc2 onto them without getting their opinions. it is unfortunate but the context is bw to sc2 transition. Hypothetically, if KesPa did not decide to switch to SC2 and still could not find an external sponsor for BW leagues, then the BW scene could collapse as a whole, which would mean that all players would lose their job. I would say that would be more damaging than transitioning. The problem is that how KesPa handles the transition is just bad. They could call up a conference and explain/discuss the need of transition with the players, delay the Proleague until OSL completes and give them more time to practice the new game without having to play two games at the same time. That would make life a lot easier for Progamers. I don't argue the need of the player union, though. Players should have some saying in how them are going to be treated. On May 23 2012 14:03 Sawamura wrote:On May 23 2012 13:47 RageCommodore wrote:On May 23 2012 12:55 empty.bottle wrote:On May 23 2012 12:44 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Huh. I wonder what made him so stressed he was crying? Sure, the stuff he outlined was very bad, but I don't think it's bad enough to bring tears to his eyes, especially in an interview that was going to the public. Maybe there's a bit more than just issues with player feedback. LOL, that's cause you don't understand what BW means to them, how could you? How could I? But this I know, Sc2 players play for the money. BW players play because they love what they do. Seriously, this is fucking retarded bullshit. Many players on korean sc2 teams don't even get a salary. Hundreds of people are attending the code A qualifiers because they dream to one day win a GSL, to go down into history. By saying that they "only play for the money" is fucking disrespectful for the ones that give it all just to have a shot at glory. You just said "fuck you" to all the guys that are grinding their hearts out in team houses, or alone at home, just to fulfill their dream of being a progamer. There are so many people out there that don't just care for the money. Stop being freaking short sighted. Just because you hate SC2, you have no right to look down on the people that play it. Fuck this, I can't belive I just wasted my 500th post on you. I don't think gsl success will ever move me the way Hotforever did for his team sacrificing his winnings for his team so they do not starve for few months and only surviving on instant noodles . If you compared back than and the current pro gaming life. It is in a much better environment than it is previously . Seriously go read the tlfe titled piano man. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78884
Shortly after the tournament, H.O.T was a genuine superstar. A film crew for a TV station decided to visit the SM team house to film a documentary about progame teams. The team was so poor, they had no food. With embarrassment written all over him, Coach Jae Kyun began to try and boil some ramen to eat while the TV crew filmed it for all of the world to see. This was the kind of life a professional game team offered.
If you tell me currently the pro gaming teams are in this kind of situation I would be rolling on the floor laughing. It's not that bad but many players in Korea still donate prize money to the team to help them out. Many have to come up with a new business model in order to stay alive (ex. Prime open a cloth shop with their players as models). oGs, which was just disbanded, pretty much relied on some of the prize money that their players win at the beginning. So yeah, it's not that bad but it's still difficult for SC2 team in Korea right now, and that's why many Korean players try to find a foreign team. I am no way playing down the difficulty about the sc2 players who are facing right now but if I compared to the days when broodwar pro gamers started appearing on the scene the professional environment for teams was really bad that all you had in you was your passion to play the game even if it means sleeping under the table of the cybercafe after your long 14 hours practice of broodwar. If you're going to carry on an argument using the situation of how BW was when it started, then we might as well say that Stork and his current BW colleagues have no right to complain either because they aren't eating ramen once a day and fainting on stage.
Sure these days we have better times but that doesn't mean we should have a union that protect the players right which will look after them.
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You either have some severe cognitive dissonance or you suffer from some pretty severe amnesia.
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On May 23 2012 15:58 koreasilver wrote:
You either have some severe cognitive dissonance or you suffer from some pretty severe amnesia.
It's basically my perspective that back than it was harder and probably a short sighted one because in the end I am probably biased of the whole situation when it comes to bw . That's was my response to ragecommoder about times of difficulty that pro gamers have to go through back than . So what's the point of calling me being mentally impaired and yet at the same time senile ?
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On May 23 2012 15:24 AeroEffect wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 15:18 ShadeR wrote:On May 23 2012 14:57 AeroEffect wrote:On May 23 2012 10:22 Ribbon wrote:On May 23 2012 09:39 Xiphos wrote:On May 23 2012 09:35 Ribbon wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what Stork's grievance is. Does he want to go back to BW, skip this hybrid business and go straight to SC2, or just set up some kind of system for players who get lost in the transition? Is the transition the issue, the way the transition is happening, or just progamer life in general under KeSPA being pushed to a breaking point?
What exactly does he want this players association to do? Players have little to no control about the decisions of the corporate and are basically forced into what ever tasks presented to them. Stork says "enough is enough, let's take back what is ours." and we go "Hell, its about time!" About time for what, exactly? You can't stay on BW without cutting players because the scene is smaller. That is simply a fact. 2007 is not coming back. I'd love to hear a realistic proposal of what's actually the best thing for the players. The options are 1. Stay in BW, but go smaller 2. Switch to SC2 and pray for the best (Current plan) 3. Keep the hybrid proleague, but alternate ace match between BW and SC2, and remove the requirement for players to alternate (in effect, having a half-size BW league glued awkwardly to an SC2 league forever). That's really the only middle ground on the switch front Or is he talking about something tangentially related, like having a program to get BW players who wash out of the SC2 league a chance to go back to school and not be janitors for the rest of their lives? I'm just not sure he's talking about the switch itself, but that the switch hurts a lot of players and no one seems to care. The way you say things are very disrespectful but I do agree with you. BW is no longer in its prime and trying to get it back to that point would not only shrink both the BW and SC2 scene, but will promote other games in its place that have less tension (LoL, DotA, etc..) Not trying to disrespectful to any BW fans myself in the least bit but after the current BW players are done and retire, then whos next? I dont see anymore up and coming BW players (not saying that there arent any around). On the other hand, there are tons of undiscovered sc2 players out there with potential. BW was nice but its been what 12 years? Back on subject though. These companies that sponser these teams and run the tournaments dont care about the players, as long as they get money. Thats how its always been in all sports. Thats how it always has been in life. Money. The players can complain and even go on strike if they wanted but I wouldnt expect much to change at all. Killer and Brave. They are already pro though. and who will compete with them? some lower than b-team players?
I don't understand your point. You don't become a star player overnight. Players take time to develop and this is the same for any game. If there wasn't talent out there, players like Mini wouldn't be coming through the ranks. He's was only drafted in 2010 and is still quite young.
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On May 23 2012 16:18 Ryo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 15:24 AeroEffect wrote:On May 23 2012 15:18 ShadeR wrote:On May 23 2012 14:57 AeroEffect wrote:On May 23 2012 10:22 Ribbon wrote:On May 23 2012 09:39 Xiphos wrote:On May 23 2012 09:35 Ribbon wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what Stork's grievance is. Does he want to go back to BW, skip this hybrid business and go straight to SC2, or just set up some kind of system for players who get lost in the transition? Is the transition the issue, the way the transition is happening, or just progamer life in general under KeSPA being pushed to a breaking point?
What exactly does he want this players association to do? Players have little to no control about the decisions of the corporate and are basically forced into what ever tasks presented to them. Stork says "enough is enough, let's take back what is ours." and we go "Hell, its about time!" About time for what, exactly? You can't stay on BW without cutting players because the scene is smaller. That is simply a fact. 2007 is not coming back. I'd love to hear a realistic proposal of what's actually the best thing for the players. The options are 1. Stay in BW, but go smaller 2. Switch to SC2 and pray for the best (Current plan) 3. Keep the hybrid proleague, but alternate ace match between BW and SC2, and remove the requirement for players to alternate (in effect, having a half-size BW league glued awkwardly to an SC2 league forever). That's really the only middle ground on the switch front Or is he talking about something tangentially related, like having a program to get BW players who wash out of the SC2 league a chance to go back to school and not be janitors for the rest of their lives? I'm just not sure he's talking about the switch itself, but that the switch hurts a lot of players and no one seems to care. The way you say things are very disrespectful but I do agree with you. BW is no longer in its prime and trying to get it back to that point would not only shrink both the BW and SC2 scene, but will promote other games in its place that have less tension (LoL, DotA, etc..) Not trying to disrespectful to any BW fans myself in the least bit but after the current BW players are done and retire, then whos next? I dont see anymore up and coming BW players (not saying that there arent any around). On the other hand, there are tons of undiscovered sc2 players out there with potential. BW was nice but its been what 12 years? Back on subject though. These companies that sponser these teams and run the tournaments dont care about the players, as long as they get money. Thats how its always been in all sports. Thats how it always has been in life. Money. The players can complain and even go on strike if they wanted but I wouldnt expect much to change at all. Killer and Brave. They are already pro though. and who will compete with them? some lower than b-team players? I don't understand your point. You don't become a star player overnight. Players take time to develop and this is the same for any game. If there wasn't talent out there, players like Mini wouldn't be coming through the ranks. He's was only drafted in 2010 and is still quite young.
Yes I feel very sad for mini, he was drafted in 2010, worked his ass of, is finally getting good results, and in a few months there won't be any more BW competition. It sounds so unfair 
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United Kingdom1666 Posts
Yeah, I'd feel incredibly shafted if I had been drafted in as a rookie only a few months/a year ago, and now this.. Giving up so much to do what you dream, and then to have it ruined.
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Sawamura, it is not fairness I'm talking about, it is ordinary compassion and respect to the hard work these boys indulge themselves into, to become the best, yes, to make money, yes, to achieve something. The way it is done in Korea looks more than harsh by our standards, of course not by Asian ones, as you've already mentioned. But that does not mean they have not earned to have their rights well protected.
They work full-time as myself, God damn it. And I am protected by the labor union, I have social benefits and guarantees they didn't and probably will never have.
This is what this all about. And it's only Stork who complained about Kespa for the first time so far, after 12 or so years of hard work, only Stork mentioned that, maybe, they should ask players too. We all can look back and say, they had much less that very time, earned much less etc. But it is in no way an argument to wield here, when a veteran player tries his best at holding his tears back
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It's no problem, BoxeR told Savior to make the players union a few years back.
oh wait.
I'm glad he is voicing everybody´s opinions on the abysmal hybrid monstrosity format.
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Russian Federation83 Posts
It will be sad if bw pros, who won't achieve any good results in sc2, will be thrown out of teams T_T
Huge responsibility is on their shoulders now. But I hope kespa players will rock as coach Park said
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So proud to be a Stork fan.
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I agree, and think there should be things like this in the SC2-scene as well, so that players have more of a say in decisions thanks to their united power.
Will it work? I don't know, but if you look at almost any professional sport, it's got a player union. Why should it be different for e-Sports?
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On May 23 2012 12:55 empty.bottle wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 12:44 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Huh. I wonder what made him so stressed he was crying? Sure, the stuff he outlined was very bad, but I don't think it's bad enough to bring tears to his eyes, especially in an interview that was going to the public. Maybe there's a bit more than just issues with player feedback. LOL, that's cause you don't understand what BW means to them, how could you? How could I? But this I know, Sc2 players play for the money. BW players play because they love what they do.
WTF!? SC2 players don't even get salary and you say they play for money only? All progamer has money as one of the goals in their career but it's not everything.
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The foreign SC2 scene killed korean BW, because without their success, the korean sponsors wouldn't have had any issues with continuing sponsoring BW. In all the interviews about the switch, they are always talking about the american scene. Korea rejected SC2, because they were very knowledgeable about BW, and knew that it was superior.
What I wish that Kespa would have done is to back BW to 100%. If they would have told the potential sponsors that they would never go through with a full switch, then maybe BW would have survived, but at a smaller scale. This switch have been going on for a year, and it explains a lot of things. It explains the lackluster games and high cheese frequency overall. It explains T8's performance. All the other teams have good leadership and decent job security, but T8 had nothing. Not only was the future of their team uncertain, but also they knew that the game they were playing would be dropped in a year.
To sum up this year though, I have to give a lot of credit to Fantasy, Flash, Mini and Last. Flash and Fantasy showed great performance until the end, which tells that they always put BW first during this period, and mini + Last, who hadn't shown much before, but who showed a unexpected dedication to BW. Thanks for sticking to BW until the end.
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EPT
