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If you derail this thread to argue about SC2 vs BW in any context other than that of the interview (e.g. saying things like "colosi suck" or "all BW fans are elitist jerks!"), I will ban you for at least a week, if not more. This is your only warning. I added this page 17
You have been warned
~GMarshal |
On May 23 2012 13:54 empty.bottle wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 13:47 RageCommodore wrote:On May 23 2012 12:55 empty.bottle wrote:On May 23 2012 12:44 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Huh. I wonder what made him so stressed he was crying? Sure, the stuff he outlined was very bad, but I don't think it's bad enough to bring tears to his eyes, especially in an interview that was going to the public. Maybe there's a bit more than just issues with player feedback. LOL, that's cause you don't understand what BW means to them, how could you? How could I? But this I know, Sc2 players play for the money. BW players play because they love what they do. Seriously, this is fucking retarded bullshit. Many players on korean sc2 teams don't even get a salary. Hundreds of people are attending the code A qualifiers because they dream to one day win a GSL, to go down into history. By saying that they "only play for the money" is fucking disrespectful for the ones that give it all just to have a shot at glory. You just said "fuck you" to all the guys that are grinding their hearts out in team houses, or alone at home, just to fulfill their dream of being a progamer. There are so many people out there that don't just care for the money. Stop being freaking short sighted. Just because you hate SC2, you have no right to look down on the people that play it. Fuck this, I can't belive I just wasted my 500th post on you. Haha I can't take someone who cares about how many post he has seriously. I don't think you should take me seriously neither, but there are a lot of examples of what I said, there's no need to argue about that since the post above this one resumes what I was trying to say.
Good job ignoring what I actually said and instead focusing on my unnecessary post count comment. And yes, I see a need to argue with what you said, because you seemingly didn't spend a second thinking about what you were writing. You could have said what you wanted to say without disrespecting SC2 players in the meanest way possible.
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On May 23 2012 13:47 RageCommodore wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 12:55 empty.bottle wrote:On May 23 2012 12:44 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Huh. I wonder what made him so stressed he was crying? Sure, the stuff he outlined was very bad, but I don't think it's bad enough to bring tears to his eyes, especially in an interview that was going to the public. Maybe there's a bit more than just issues with player feedback. LOL, that's cause you don't understand what BW means to them, how could you? How could I? But this I know, Sc2 players play for the money. BW players play because they love what they do. Seriously, this is fucking retarded bullshit. Many players on korean sc2 teams don't even get a salary. Hundreds of people are attending the code A qualifiers because they dream to one day win a GSL, to go down into history. By saying that they "only play for the money" is fucking disrespectful for the ones that give it all just to have a shot at glory. You just said "fuck you" to all the guys that are grinding their hearts out in team houses, or alone at home, just to fulfill their dream of being a progamer. There are so many people out there that don't just care for the money. Stop being freaking short sighted. Just because you hate SC2, you have no right to look down on the people that play it. Fuck this, I can't belive I just wasted my 500th post on you.
I don't think gsl success will ever move me the way Hotforever did for his team sacrificing his winnings for his team so they do not starve for few months and only surviving on instant noodles . If you compared back than and the current pro gaming life. It is in a much better environment than it is previously . Seriously go read the tlfe titled piano man.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78884
Shortly after the tournament, H.O.T was a genuine superstar. A film crew for a TV station decided to visit the SM team house to film a documentary about progame teams. The team was so poor, they had no food. With embarrassment written all over him, Coach Jae Kyun began to try and boil some ramen to eat while the TV crew filmed it for all of the world to see. This was the kind of life a professional game team offered.
If you tell me currently the pro gaming teams are in this kind of situation I would be rolling on the floor laughing.
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On May 23 2012 12:44 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Huh. I wonder what made him so stressed he was crying? Sure, the stuff he outlined was very bad, but I don't think it's bad enough to bring tears to his eyes, especially in an interview that was going to the public. Maybe there's a bit more than just issues with player feedback.
Possibly. Brave and Killer just quit gaming. Brave in particular had a decent record last season. Stork would know the real reasons why they left, especially since Brave is his teammate and junior. Stork also mentions that he's the only one left who can express the grievances on behalf of the players so perhaps some of his juniors approached him about their difficulties.
On May 23 2012 11:49 ellerina wrote:
It might be too late for BW, but I'm glad someone spoke up about this (and it being someone I'm a fan of is just icing on the cake). There were hints in the coaches interview (one of January's comments) that the players/coaches were not consulted with regarding the specifics of the transition, (or possibly even the transition itself), and it's nice to see confirmation. Putting aside the whole BW vs. SC2 thing, it's outrageous that a change as big as this was just handed down to those who are primarily involved instead of coming up with the best possible situation with input from all sides.
I can't imagine the stress they're all going through with having to practice for 2 different games. The continuation of all the hard work they put in for the past how many years now depends on how fast they can transition to a new game in a few months, which would be fine normally I guess, except they can't even put 100% into the transition and practice because of the format. Or they could put 100% in at the expense of the quality of the BW games they show their fans, and which they played with so high quality before. It all must be very frustrating.
Word.
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I love Stork so much for speaking out like this. Most of the reason games have been so lackluster lately is because of these awful maps being used. It was bad enough to see them played for one season, but to have them repeated was just lazy and negligent. Possible last ever BW season and we get scraps like these?
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On May 23 2012 12:43 OopsOopsBaby wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 11:46 sluggaslamoo wrote:On May 23 2012 10:22 Ribbon wrote:On May 23 2012 09:39 Xiphos wrote:On May 23 2012 09:35 Ribbon wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what Stork's grievance is. Does he want to go back to BW, skip this hybrid business and go straight to SC2, or just set up some kind of system for players who get lost in the transition? Is the transition the issue, the way the transition is happening, or just progamer life in general under KeSPA being pushed to a breaking point?
What exactly does he want this players association to do? Players have little to no control about the decisions of the corporate and are basically forced into what ever tasks presented to them. Stork says "enough is enough, let's take back what is ours." and we go "Hell, its about time!" About time for what, exactly? You can't stay on BW without cutting players because the scene is smaller. That is simply a fact. 2007 is not coming back. I'd love to hear a realistic proposal of what's actually the best thing for the players. The options are 1. Stay in BW, but go smaller 2. Switch to SC2 and pray for the best (Current plan) 3. Keep the hybrid proleague, but alternate ace match between BW and SC2, and remove the requirement for players to alternate (in effect, having a half-size BW league glued awkwardly to an SC2 league forever). That's really the only middle ground on the switch front Or is he talking about something tangentially related, like having a program to get BW players who wash out of the SC2 league a chance to go back to school and not be janitors for the rest of their lives? I'm just not sure he's talking about the switch itself, but that the switch hurts a lot of players and no one seems to care. This has nothing to do with BW to SC2 transition. The problem is Kespa hasn't given a shit about its players since its inception, and not showing the maps and the mixed format was the straw that broke the camels back for Stork. Players have no say in what happens in the leagues or the maps that make it into the pool, and have their hands tied by the stupid kespa progamer licenses. Kespa nearly killed BW when it conjured the "license to broadcast starcraft" from thin air, and then sold it back to OGN for a sum that nearly made them go broke. Kespa simply controls everything that happens without any player input, and any smallfry who talk back fear that they get their license revoked, which is why nobody has complained. Because Stork is such a high profile player, he used his 100 wins achievement to segway into making light of an issue that most progamers had feared to speak up about. read the article again. Show nested quote +When we were only playing BW, Kespa would first initiate a map test but for this Starleague, the players were only given the final version of the maps the day before the opening. stork talks about kespa stop giving a shit about bw matters in this case releasing of maps is the example. Show nested quote +This season's BW maps are an example, if you look at the vast majority of the things Kespa has done, the players' opinions have not once been taken into account. It might not matter to players who earn a lot of money but as a whole, if the top players and middle ranking players don't do well at SC2, it is the end for them. stork talks about kespa forcing sc2 onto them without getting their opinions. it is unfortunate but the context is bw to sc2 transition.
Hypothetically, if KesPa did not decide to switch to SC2 and still could not find an external sponsor for BW leagues, then the BW scene could collapse as a whole, which would mean that all players would lose their job. I would say that would be more damaging than transitioning.
The problem is that how KesPa handles the transition is just bad. They could call up a conference and explain/discuss the need of transition with the players, delay the Proleague until OSL completes and give them more time to practice the new game without having to play two games at the same time. That would make life a lot easier for Progamers.
I don't argue the need of the player union, though. Players should have some saying in how them are going to be treated.
On May 23 2012 14:03 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 13:47 RageCommodore wrote:On May 23 2012 12:55 empty.bottle wrote:On May 23 2012 12:44 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Huh. I wonder what made him so stressed he was crying? Sure, the stuff he outlined was very bad, but I don't think it's bad enough to bring tears to his eyes, especially in an interview that was going to the public. Maybe there's a bit more than just issues with player feedback. LOL, that's cause you don't understand what BW means to them, how could you? How could I? But this I know, Sc2 players play for the money. BW players play because they love what they do. Seriously, this is fucking retarded bullshit. Many players on korean sc2 teams don't even get a salary. Hundreds of people are attending the code A qualifiers because they dream to one day win a GSL, to go down into history. By saying that they "only play for the money" is fucking disrespectful for the ones that give it all just to have a shot at glory. You just said "fuck you" to all the guys that are grinding their hearts out in team houses, or alone at home, just to fulfill their dream of being a progamer. There are so many people out there that don't just care for the money. Stop being freaking short sighted. Just because you hate SC2, you have no right to look down on the people that play it. Fuck this, I can't belive I just wasted my 500th post on you. I don't think gsl success will ever move me the way Hotforever did for his team sacrificing his winnings for his team so they do not starve for few months and only surviving on instant noodles . If you compared back than and the current pro gaming life. It is in a much better environment than it is previously . Seriously go read the tlfe titled piano man. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78884Show nested quote +
Shortly after the tournament, H.O.T was a genuine superstar. A film crew for a TV station decided to visit the SM team house to film a documentary about progame teams. The team was so poor, they had no food. With embarrassment written all over him, Coach Jae Kyun began to try and boil some ramen to eat while the TV crew filmed it for all of the world to see. This was the kind of life a professional game team offered.
If you tell me currently the pro gaming teams are in this kind of situation I would be rolling on the floor laughing.
It's not that bad but many players in Korea still donate prize money to the team to help them out. Many have to come up with a new business model in order to stay alive (ex. Prime open a cloth shop with their players as models). oGs, which was just disbanded, pretty much relied on some of the prize money that their players win at the beginning.
So yeah, it's not that bad but it's still difficult for SC2 team in Korea right now, and that's why many Korean players try to find a foreign team.
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On May 23 2012 14:18 Veldril wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 12:43 OopsOopsBaby wrote:On May 23 2012 11:46 sluggaslamoo wrote:On May 23 2012 10:22 Ribbon wrote:On May 23 2012 09:39 Xiphos wrote:On May 23 2012 09:35 Ribbon wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what Stork's grievance is. Does he want to go back to BW, skip this hybrid business and go straight to SC2, or just set up some kind of system for players who get lost in the transition? Is the transition the issue, the way the transition is happening, or just progamer life in general under KeSPA being pushed to a breaking point?
What exactly does he want this players association to do? Players have little to no control about the decisions of the corporate and are basically forced into what ever tasks presented to them. Stork says "enough is enough, let's take back what is ours." and we go "Hell, its about time!" About time for what, exactly? You can't stay on BW without cutting players because the scene is smaller. That is simply a fact. 2007 is not coming back. I'd love to hear a realistic proposal of what's actually the best thing for the players. The options are 1. Stay in BW, but go smaller 2. Switch to SC2 and pray for the best (Current plan) 3. Keep the hybrid proleague, but alternate ace match between BW and SC2, and remove the requirement for players to alternate (in effect, having a half-size BW league glued awkwardly to an SC2 league forever). That's really the only middle ground on the switch front Or is he talking about something tangentially related, like having a program to get BW players who wash out of the SC2 league a chance to go back to school and not be janitors for the rest of their lives? I'm just not sure he's talking about the switch itself, but that the switch hurts a lot of players and no one seems to care. This has nothing to do with BW to SC2 transition. The problem is Kespa hasn't given a shit about its players since its inception, and not showing the maps and the mixed format was the straw that broke the camels back for Stork. Players have no say in what happens in the leagues or the maps that make it into the pool, and have their hands tied by the stupid kespa progamer licenses. Kespa nearly killed BW when it conjured the "license to broadcast starcraft" from thin air, and then sold it back to OGN for a sum that nearly made them go broke. Kespa simply controls everything that happens without any player input, and any smallfry who talk back fear that they get their license revoked, which is why nobody has complained. Because Stork is such a high profile player, he used his 100 wins achievement to segway into making light of an issue that most progamers had feared to speak up about. read the article again. When we were only playing BW, Kespa would first initiate a map test but for this Starleague, the players were only given the final version of the maps the day before the opening. stork talks about kespa stop giving a shit about bw matters in this case releasing of maps is the example. This season's BW maps are an example, if you look at the vast majority of the things Kespa has done, the players' opinions have not once been taken into account. It might not matter to players who earn a lot of money but as a whole, if the top players and middle ranking players don't do well at SC2, it is the end for them. stork talks about kespa forcing sc2 onto them without getting their opinions. it is unfortunate but the context is bw to sc2 transition. Hypothetically, if KesPa did not decide to switch to SC2 and still could not find an external sponsor for BW leagues, then the BW scene could collapse as a whole, which would mean that all players would lose their job. I would say that would be more damaging than transitioning. The problem is that how KesPa handles the transition is just bad. They could call up a conference and explain/discuss the need of transition with the players, delay the Proleague until OSL completes and give them more time to practice the new game without having to play two games at the same time. That would make life a lot easier for Progamers. I don't argue the need of the player union, though. Players should have some saying in how them are going to be treated. Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 14:03 Sawamura wrote:On May 23 2012 13:47 RageCommodore wrote:On May 23 2012 12:55 empty.bottle wrote:On May 23 2012 12:44 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Huh. I wonder what made him so stressed he was crying? Sure, the stuff he outlined was very bad, but I don't think it's bad enough to bring tears to his eyes, especially in an interview that was going to the public. Maybe there's a bit more than just issues with player feedback. LOL, that's cause you don't understand what BW means to them, how could you? How could I? But this I know, Sc2 players play for the money. BW players play because they love what they do. Seriously, this is fucking retarded bullshit. Many players on korean sc2 teams don't even get a salary. Hundreds of people are attending the code A qualifiers because they dream to one day win a GSL, to go down into history. By saying that they "only play for the money" is fucking disrespectful for the ones that give it all just to have a shot at glory. You just said "fuck you" to all the guys that are grinding their hearts out in team houses, or alone at home, just to fulfill their dream of being a progamer. There are so many people out there that don't just care for the money. Stop being freaking short sighted. Just because you hate SC2, you have no right to look down on the people that play it. Fuck this, I can't belive I just wasted my 500th post on you. I don't think gsl success will ever move me the way Hotforever did for his team sacrificing his winnings for his team so they do not starve for few months and only surviving on instant noodles . If you compared back than and the current pro gaming life. It is in a much better environment than it is previously . Seriously go read the tlfe titled piano man. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78884
Shortly after the tournament, H.O.T was a genuine superstar. A film crew for a TV station decided to visit the SM team house to film a documentary about progame teams. The team was so poor, they had no food. With embarrassment written all over him, Coach Jae Kyun began to try and boil some ramen to eat while the TV crew filmed it for all of the world to see. This was the kind of life a professional game team offered.
If you tell me currently the pro gaming teams are in this kind of situation I would be rolling on the floor laughing. It's not that bad but many players in Korea still donate prize money to the team to help them out. Many have to come up with a new business model in order to stay alive (ex. Prime open a cloth shop with their players as models). oGs, which was just disbanded, pretty much relied on some of the prize money that their players win at the beginning. So yeah, it's not that bad but it's still difficult for SC2 team in Korea right now, and that's why many Korean players try to find a foreign team.
I am no way playing down the difficulty about the sc2 players who are facing right now but if I compared to the days when broodwar pro gamers started appearing on the scene the professional environment for teams was really bad that all you had in you was your passion to play the game even if it means sleeping under the table of the cybercafe after your long 14 hours
practice of broodwar.
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On May 23 2012 14:03 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 13:47 RageCommodore wrote:On May 23 2012 12:55 empty.bottle wrote:On May 23 2012 12:44 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Huh. I wonder what made him so stressed he was crying? Sure, the stuff he outlined was very bad, but I don't think it's bad enough to bring tears to his eyes, especially in an interview that was going to the public. Maybe there's a bit more than just issues with player feedback. LOL, that's cause you don't understand what BW means to them, how could you? How could I? But this I know, Sc2 players play for the money. BW players play because they love what they do. Seriously, this is fucking retarded bullshit. Many players on korean sc2 teams don't even get a salary. Hundreds of people are attending the code A qualifiers because they dream to one day win a GSL, to go down into history. By saying that they "only play for the money" is fucking disrespectful for the ones that give it all just to have a shot at glory. You just said "fuck you" to all the guys that are grinding their hearts out in team houses, or alone at home, just to fulfill their dream of being a progamer. There are so many people out there that don't just care for the money. Stop being freaking short sighted. Just because you hate SC2, you have no right to look down on the people that play it. Fuck this, I can't belive I just wasted my 500th post on you. I don't think gsl success will ever move me the way Hotforever did for his team sacrificing his winnings for his team so they do not starve for few months and only surviving on instant noodles . If you compared back than and the current pro gaming life. It is in a much better environment than it is previously . Seriously go read the tlfe titled piano man. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78884Show nested quote +
Shortly after the tournament, H.O.T was a genuine superstar. A film crew for a TV station decided to visit the SM team house to film a documentary about progame teams. The team was so poor, they had no food. With embarrassment written all over him, Coach Jae Kyun began to try and boil some ramen to eat while the TV crew filmed it for all of the world to see. This was the kind of life a professional game team offered.
If you tell me currently the pro gaming teams are in this kind of situation I would be rolling on the floor laughing.
I've read the fe (which is really, really good). No, it isn't as bad (although some players donate a part of their price money to their teams because they have no sponsors), but that was never my point. I was just extremely upset about his generalizing of player intentions which you can hopefully understand.
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Russian Federation3329 Posts
Too good... I really respect Stork~ both as a player and as a person and a leader... Congrats also on 100 wins!
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On May 23 2012 14:21 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 14:18 Veldril wrote:On May 23 2012 12:43 OopsOopsBaby wrote:On May 23 2012 11:46 sluggaslamoo wrote:On May 23 2012 10:22 Ribbon wrote:On May 23 2012 09:39 Xiphos wrote:On May 23 2012 09:35 Ribbon wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what Stork's grievance is. Does he want to go back to BW, skip this hybrid business and go straight to SC2, or just set up some kind of system for players who get lost in the transition? Is the transition the issue, the way the transition is happening, or just progamer life in general under KeSPA being pushed to a breaking point?
What exactly does he want this players association to do? Players have little to no control about the decisions of the corporate and are basically forced into what ever tasks presented to them. Stork says "enough is enough, let's take back what is ours." and we go "Hell, its about time!" About time for what, exactly? You can't stay on BW without cutting players because the scene is smaller. That is simply a fact. 2007 is not coming back. I'd love to hear a realistic proposal of what's actually the best thing for the players. The options are 1. Stay in BW, but go smaller 2. Switch to SC2 and pray for the best (Current plan) 3. Keep the hybrid proleague, but alternate ace match between BW and SC2, and remove the requirement for players to alternate (in effect, having a half-size BW league glued awkwardly to an SC2 league forever). That's really the only middle ground on the switch front Or is he talking about something tangentially related, like having a program to get BW players who wash out of the SC2 league a chance to go back to school and not be janitors for the rest of their lives? I'm just not sure he's talking about the switch itself, but that the switch hurts a lot of players and no one seems to care. This has nothing to do with BW to SC2 transition. The problem is Kespa hasn't given a shit about its players since its inception, and not showing the maps and the mixed format was the straw that broke the camels back for Stork. Players have no say in what happens in the leagues or the maps that make it into the pool, and have their hands tied by the stupid kespa progamer licenses. Kespa nearly killed BW when it conjured the "license to broadcast starcraft" from thin air, and then sold it back to OGN for a sum that nearly made them go broke. Kespa simply controls everything that happens without any player input, and any smallfry who talk back fear that they get their license revoked, which is why nobody has complained. Because Stork is such a high profile player, he used his 100 wins achievement to segway into making light of an issue that most progamers had feared to speak up about. read the article again. When we were only playing BW, Kespa would first initiate a map test but for this Starleague, the players were only given the final version of the maps the day before the opening. stork talks about kespa stop giving a shit about bw matters in this case releasing of maps is the example. This season's BW maps are an example, if you look at the vast majority of the things Kespa has done, the players' opinions have not once been taken into account. It might not matter to players who earn a lot of money but as a whole, if the top players and middle ranking players don't do well at SC2, it is the end for them. stork talks about kespa forcing sc2 onto them without getting their opinions. it is unfortunate but the context is bw to sc2 transition. Hypothetically, if KesPa did not decide to switch to SC2 and still could not find an external sponsor for BW leagues, then the BW scene could collapse as a whole, which would mean that all players would lose their job. I would say that would be more damaging than transitioning. The problem is that how KesPa handles the transition is just bad. They could call up a conference and explain/discuss the need of transition with the players, delay the Proleague until OSL completes and give them more time to practice the new game without having to play two games at the same time. That would make life a lot easier for Progamers. I don't argue the need of the player union, though. Players should have some saying in how them are going to be treated. On May 23 2012 14:03 Sawamura wrote:On May 23 2012 13:47 RageCommodore wrote:On May 23 2012 12:55 empty.bottle wrote:On May 23 2012 12:44 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Huh. I wonder what made him so stressed he was crying? Sure, the stuff he outlined was very bad, but I don't think it's bad enough to bring tears to his eyes, especially in an interview that was going to the public. Maybe there's a bit more than just issues with player feedback. LOL, that's cause you don't understand what BW means to them, how could you? How could I? But this I know, Sc2 players play for the money. BW players play because they love what they do. Seriously, this is fucking retarded bullshit. Many players on korean sc2 teams don't even get a salary. Hundreds of people are attending the code A qualifiers because they dream to one day win a GSL, to go down into history. By saying that they "only play for the money" is fucking disrespectful for the ones that give it all just to have a shot at glory. You just said "fuck you" to all the guys that are grinding their hearts out in team houses, or alone at home, just to fulfill their dream of being a progamer. There are so many people out there that don't just care for the money. Stop being freaking short sighted. Just because you hate SC2, you have no right to look down on the people that play it. Fuck this, I can't belive I just wasted my 500th post on you. I don't think gsl success will ever move me the way Hotforever did for his team sacrificing his winnings for his team so they do not starve for few months and only surviving on instant noodles . If you compared back than and the current pro gaming life. It is in a much better environment than it is previously . Seriously go read the tlfe titled piano man. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78884
Shortly after the tournament, H.O.T was a genuine superstar. A film crew for a TV station decided to visit the SM team house to film a documentary about progame teams. The team was so poor, they had no food. With embarrassment written all over him, Coach Jae Kyun began to try and boil some ramen to eat while the TV crew filmed it for all of the world to see. This was the kind of life a professional game team offered.
If you tell me currently the pro gaming teams are in this kind of situation I would be rolling on the floor laughing. It's not that bad but many players in Korea still donate prize money to the team to help them out. Many have to come up with a new business model in order to stay alive (ex. Prime open a cloth shop with their players as models). oGs, which was just disbanded, pretty much relied on some of the prize money that their players win at the beginning. So yeah, it's not that bad but it's still difficult for SC2 team in Korea right now, and that's why many Korean players try to find a foreign team. I am no way playing down the difficulty about the sc2 players who are facing right now but if I compared to the days when broodwar pro gamers started appearing on the scene the professional environment for teams was really bad that all you had in you was your passion to play the game even if it means sleeping under the table of the cybercafe after your long 14 hours practice of broodwar.
If you're going to carry on an argument using the situation of how BW was when it started, then we might as well say that Stork and his current BW colleagues have no right to complain either because they aren't eating ramen once a day and fainting on stage.
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oh, dear Stork.
They definitely need a professional union,
Kespa doesn't give a shit for the players.
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Japan11286 Posts
I'm going to sport a permanent KHAN tag now.
The players' grievances may vary a lot and very likely increased over the transition into this + Show Spoiler + hybrid format. I'm glad  Stork spoke up but is it gonna change anything? who knows.
Anyway, Song Byung Goo fighting!!!!
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On May 23 2012 10:22 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 09:39 Xiphos wrote:On May 23 2012 09:35 Ribbon wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what Stork's grievance is. Does he want to go back to BW, skip this hybrid business and go straight to SC2, or just set up some kind of system for players who get lost in the transition? Is the transition the issue, the way the transition is happening, or just progamer life in general under KeSPA being pushed to a breaking point?
What exactly does he want this players association to do? Players have little to no control about the decisions of the corporate and are basically forced into what ever tasks presented to them. Stork says "enough is enough, let's take back what is ours." and we go "Hell, its about time!" About time for what, exactly? You can't stay on BW without cutting players because the scene is smaller. That is simply a fact. 2007 is not coming back. I'd love to hear a realistic proposal of what's actually the best thing for the players. The options are 1. Stay in BW, but go smaller 2. Switch to SC2 and pray for the best (Current plan) 3. Keep the hybrid proleague, but alternate ace match between BW and SC2, and remove the requirement for players to alternate (in effect, having a half-size BW league glued awkwardly to an SC2 league forever). That's really the only middle ground on the switch front Or is he talking about something tangentially related, like having a program to get BW players who wash out of the SC2 league a chance to go back to school and not be janitors for the rest of their lives? I'm just not sure he's talking about the switch itself, but that the switch hurts a lot of players and no one seems to care.
The way you say things are very disrespectful but I do agree with you. BW is no longer in its prime and trying to get it back to that point would not only shrink both the BW and SC2 scene, but will promote other games in its place that have less tension (LoL, DotA, etc..)
Not trying to disrespectful to any BW fans myself in the least bit but after the current BW players are done and retire, then whos next? I dont see anymore up and coming BW players (not saying that there arent any around). On the other hand, there are tons of undiscovered sc2 players out there with potential. BW was nice but its been what 12 years?
Back on subject though. These companies that sponser these teams and run the tournaments dont care about the players, as long as they get money. Thats how its always been in all sports. Thats how it always has been in life. Money. The players can complain and even go on strike if they wanted but I wouldnt expect much to change at all.
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On May 23 2012 14:21 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 14:18 Veldril wrote:On May 23 2012 12:43 OopsOopsBaby wrote:On May 23 2012 11:46 sluggaslamoo wrote:On May 23 2012 10:22 Ribbon wrote:On May 23 2012 09:39 Xiphos wrote:On May 23 2012 09:35 Ribbon wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what Stork's grievance is. Does he want to go back to BW, skip this hybrid business and go straight to SC2, or just set up some kind of system for players who get lost in the transition? Is the transition the issue, the way the transition is happening, or just progamer life in general under KeSPA being pushed to a breaking point?
What exactly does he want this players association to do? Players have little to no control about the decisions of the corporate and are basically forced into what ever tasks presented to them. Stork says "enough is enough, let's take back what is ours." and we go "Hell, its about time!" About time for what, exactly? You can't stay on BW without cutting players because the scene is smaller. That is simply a fact. 2007 is not coming back. I'd love to hear a realistic proposal of what's actually the best thing for the players. The options are 1. Stay in BW, but go smaller 2. Switch to SC2 and pray for the best (Current plan) 3. Keep the hybrid proleague, but alternate ace match between BW and SC2, and remove the requirement for players to alternate (in effect, having a half-size BW league glued awkwardly to an SC2 league forever). That's really the only middle ground on the switch front Or is he talking about something tangentially related, like having a program to get BW players who wash out of the SC2 league a chance to go back to school and not be janitors for the rest of their lives? I'm just not sure he's talking about the switch itself, but that the switch hurts a lot of players and no one seems to care. This has nothing to do with BW to SC2 transition. The problem is Kespa hasn't given a shit about its players since its inception, and not showing the maps and the mixed format was the straw that broke the camels back for Stork. Players have no say in what happens in the leagues or the maps that make it into the pool, and have their hands tied by the stupid kespa progamer licenses. Kespa nearly killed BW when it conjured the "license to broadcast starcraft" from thin air, and then sold it back to OGN for a sum that nearly made them go broke. Kespa simply controls everything that happens without any player input, and any smallfry who talk back fear that they get their license revoked, which is why nobody has complained. Because Stork is such a high profile player, he used his 100 wins achievement to segway into making light of an issue that most progamers had feared to speak up about. read the article again. When we were only playing BW, Kespa would first initiate a map test but for this Starleague, the players were only given the final version of the maps the day before the opening. stork talks about kespa stop giving a shit about bw matters in this case releasing of maps is the example. This season's BW maps are an example, if you look at the vast majority of the things Kespa has done, the players' opinions have not once been taken into account. It might not matter to players who earn a lot of money but as a whole, if the top players and middle ranking players don't do well at SC2, it is the end for them. stork talks about kespa forcing sc2 onto them without getting their opinions. it is unfortunate but the context is bw to sc2 transition. Hypothetically, if KesPa did not decide to switch to SC2 and still could not find an external sponsor for BW leagues, then the BW scene could collapse as a whole, which would mean that all players would lose their job. I would say that would be more damaging than transitioning. The problem is that how KesPa handles the transition is just bad. They could call up a conference and explain/discuss the need of transition with the players, delay the Proleague until OSL completes and give them more time to practice the new game without having to play two games at the same time. That would make life a lot easier for Progamers. I don't argue the need of the player union, though. Players should have some saying in how them are going to be treated. On May 23 2012 14:03 Sawamura wrote:On May 23 2012 13:47 RageCommodore wrote:On May 23 2012 12:55 empty.bottle wrote:On May 23 2012 12:44 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Huh. I wonder what made him so stressed he was crying? Sure, the stuff he outlined was very bad, but I don't think it's bad enough to bring tears to his eyes, especially in an interview that was going to the public. Maybe there's a bit more than just issues with player feedback. LOL, that's cause you don't understand what BW means to them, how could you? How could I? But this I know, Sc2 players play for the money. BW players play because they love what they do. Seriously, this is fucking retarded bullshit. Many players on korean sc2 teams don't even get a salary. Hundreds of people are attending the code A qualifiers because they dream to one day win a GSL, to go down into history. By saying that they "only play for the money" is fucking disrespectful for the ones that give it all just to have a shot at glory. You just said "fuck you" to all the guys that are grinding their hearts out in team houses, or alone at home, just to fulfill their dream of being a progamer. There are so many people out there that don't just care for the money. Stop being freaking short sighted. Just because you hate SC2, you have no right to look down on the people that play it. Fuck this, I can't belive I just wasted my 500th post on you. I don't think gsl success will ever move me the way Hotforever did for his team sacrificing his winnings for his team so they do not starve for few months and only surviving on instant noodles . If you compared back than and the current pro gaming life. It is in a much better environment than it is previously . Seriously go read the tlfe titled piano man. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78884
Shortly after the tournament, H.O.T was a genuine superstar. A film crew for a TV station decided to visit the SM team house to film a documentary about progame teams. The team was so poor, they had no food. With embarrassment written all over him, Coach Jae Kyun began to try and boil some ramen to eat while the TV crew filmed it for all of the world to see. This was the kind of life a professional game team offered.
If you tell me currently the pro gaming teams are in this kind of situation I would be rolling on the floor laughing. It's not that bad but many players in Korea still donate prize money to the team to help them out. Many have to come up with a new business model in order to stay alive (ex. Prime open a cloth shop with their players as models). oGs, which was just disbanded, pretty much relied on some of the prize money that their players win at the beginning. So yeah, it's not that bad but it's still difficult for SC2 team in Korea right now, and that's why many Korean players try to find a foreign team. I am no way playing down the difficulty about the sc2 players who are facing right now but if I compared to the days when broodwar pro gamers started appearing on the scene the professional environment for teams was really bad that all you had in you was your passion to play the game even if it means sleeping under the table of the cybercafe after your long 14 hours practice of broodwar.
And there were times when ppl used stones and sticks... And there were times when there were no PC's and nobody really cared.. And there are still countries where ppl starve to death, so what do these progamers moan about?
This is what your logic looks like. Moreover since you are not progamer, I guess you are in no position to make this kind of judgements.
I hope the Korean legislation concerning underage labor will be reworked. At this level, they need a professional union and not only for SC.
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what an awesome guy..
Song Byung-Gu !!!
FIGHTIIIIING !!!
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Stork :3, that's pretty unfortunate... hopefully something gets done 
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We should have a dictionary in TL and under "Good Samaritan" we should have a picture of Stork.
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Players union with stork at the front! <3 you dinotoss
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On May 23 2012 14:57 AeroEffect wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 10:22 Ribbon wrote:On May 23 2012 09:39 Xiphos wrote:On May 23 2012 09:35 Ribbon wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what Stork's grievance is. Does he want to go back to BW, skip this hybrid business and go straight to SC2, or just set up some kind of system for players who get lost in the transition? Is the transition the issue, the way the transition is happening, or just progamer life in general under KeSPA being pushed to a breaking point?
What exactly does he want this players association to do? Players have little to no control about the decisions of the corporate and are basically forced into what ever tasks presented to them. Stork says "enough is enough, let's take back what is ours." and we go "Hell, its about time!" About time for what, exactly? You can't stay on BW without cutting players because the scene is smaller. That is simply a fact. 2007 is not coming back. I'd love to hear a realistic proposal of what's actually the best thing for the players. The options are 1. Stay in BW, but go smaller 2. Switch to SC2 and pray for the best (Current plan) 3. Keep the hybrid proleague, but alternate ace match between BW and SC2, and remove the requirement for players to alternate (in effect, having a half-size BW league glued awkwardly to an SC2 league forever). That's really the only middle ground on the switch front Or is he talking about something tangentially related, like having a program to get BW players who wash out of the SC2 league a chance to go back to school and not be janitors for the rest of their lives? I'm just not sure he's talking about the switch itself, but that the switch hurts a lot of players and no one seems to care. The way you say things are very disrespectful but I do agree with you. BW is no longer in its prime and trying to get it back to that point would not only shrink both the BW and SC2 scene, but will promote other games in its place that have less tension (LoL, DotA, etc..) Not trying to disrespectful to any BW fans myself in the least bit but after the current BW players are done and retire, then whos next? I dont see anymore up and coming BW players (not saying that there arent any around). On the other hand, there are tons of undiscovered sc2 players out there with potential. BW was nice but its been what 12 years? Back on subject though. These companies that sponser these teams and run the tournaments dont care about the players, as long as they get money. Thats how its always been in all sports. Thats how it always has been in life. Money. The players can complain and even go on strike if they wanted but I wouldnt expect much to change at all.
Killer and Brave.
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EPT
