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ALLEYCAT BLUES49489 Posts
On April 29 2012 01:56 ImbaTosS wrote:
Sawamura, I would like to respectfully disagree with you. I think that BW can continue to succeed as a strong, albeit very niche scene. And I'm a pessimist, not given to flights of fancy or wild imaginings- I really do think that we can do just fine in our own capacity.
I prefer if it remained small and strong, sure we'll miss the limelight but really the entire point of the game is to enjoy it.
On April 29 2012 01:51 CaucasianAsian wrote:
Just let me know the details, and I can help organize / talk with the teams/players.
huddle up guys, we need to work some stuff out.
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On April 29 2012 00:01 Sawamura wrote:
I will be frank here and say that I admire you trying to start up the scene with more projects for funding tournaments like ISL(although they should call it FSL because only foreigners only play in the tournament ) and also Noise ASL .However we must know that broodwar has long gone it's expiry date . Sure some people may pick up the game out of curiosity and than play it and after that drop the game and play other more shiny and more appealing games out there with healthy communities.
Thank you very much for your feedback. I completely agree with the last sentence which is why I have the Add Features section in the OP. I thought it might be asking too much but maybe one of BW's fans is a programmer and would be willing to add a little shininess to our beloved game. It could use a resolution boost but the art in BW has no expiration date. Its gorgeous and its classically done IMO.
On April 29 2012 00:01 Sawamura wrote:Bw is at it's last leg while I am typing this Iccup once a prominent server for foreigners and koreans to enjoy bashing each other with their superior skill is currently at 560 + players in the server . What does that number tell you ? Interest in the game is dwindling and the lack of new blood flowing in the scene is already enough to kill the scene even though one of you guys will keep continue playing the game it's really a futile effort .
The dwindling numbers at Iccup are very sad, but not necessarily permament. One of the communities that inspired me to do this is the Age of Empires 2 community. For those that don't know, they are making their own expansion to the game, using streaming of pro play, showmatches, and even a show called "State of the Empires" to revitalize a game that had absolutely nothing except some nostagiac value. The went from nothing to something with just a little passion for their game, I think this community has a little passion for their game. 
On April 29 2012 00:01 Sawamura wrote:
The koreans are a well develop e-sport country where playing games actually can benefit you momentarily if you make it big or make it a chance for you to work in one of the respected company that has sponsored you for years . As seen previously in Xellos retirement to become one of CJ work force in the company . Inviting koreans over to compete with us, first what level is the current foreigners right now are we as good as the long standing korean clans like n.die,shield,by and etc ?
We'll great crushed for certain. But did you see the Super Clan League? The foreigners playing was exciting as hell, I just watched it last night. We can have that again for as low as 200 bucks.
In addition, part of what this is all about is bridging the two communities. If we can do that, (highly improbable, I know TT) foreigners can finally have some access to the wealth of BW knowledge in Korea.
On April 29 2012 00:01 Sawamura wrote:If we can't satisfy a simple basics requirements like this to peek interest from the korean communities, the project will fail immediately and if you want a revival for broodwar right now the best chance we ever had was proleague it self .It's the number one source of inspiration out there for all of us broodwar fans, the lightning effects, korean commentators using their WPM to their best, professional broodwar players putting in their soul to the game so we viewers can enjoy it.
However this isn't the only problem we are facing right now I urge players who are still willing to play broodwar to try out games out there in your respectively country which are growing right now . If Dota 2 is huge in your country than go for it, If Sc2 is having lots of tournament in your designated country you have to play the game and give your shot and making big out of thriving community . My respective views that to grasp the opportunity at hand when there is still available it's actually quite justifiable in the long run we may prefer one game over the other but that's merely our preference .
Until company developers actually stop molesting their franchise with inferior sequels that actually will make us oldies proud .I see there is no end to starcraft 3,4,5,6 and it's expansion to come out the next year and the word e-sports still being used to promote it's product . I am not saying we should give it all up and not support the remaining scene and I don't want to be called some sort of a leech who does nothing but reap the benefit of the resources and enjoyment that the broodwar scene has been giving us all the time .
This is probably one of the few remaining years to actually watch bw at it's glorious level although quite sub par compared to it's previous years if compared and we should enjoy while it still remains .
I agree that BW Proleague is a linchpin in our community. This is actually why I started this thread. If it was going down, I wanted to replace it with the next best thing. The Korean clans. And to possibly start rebuilding from the ashes.
Let's all enjoy what we have left.
Thanks again for the prescient feedback. 
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On April 29 2012 01:51 CaucasianAsian wrote:
Just let me know the details, and I can help organize / talk with the teams/players.
You speak Korean? I'm going to make a list a those who have offered their services in the OP and what they can do so that people who come to this thread have an idea of where we're at.
@BLinD-RawR Small and strong sounds like a very realistic goal to me. I like that.
Edit:
@Starburst quuad I have added your offers to the OP as well. Thanks very much.
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Korea (South)11568 Posts
I speak conversational Korean, I'm still learning, but i'm friends / practice with some top amateurs who would be willing to play in a global tournament (I dislike the idea of having this foreigner / korean divide that we have today. We need to get rid of it all together).
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On April 29 2012 02:21 CaucasianAsian wrote:
I speak conversational Korean, I'm still learning, but i'm friends / practice with some top amateurs who would be willing to play in a global tournament (I dislike the idea of having this foreigner / korean divide that we have today. We need to get rid of it all together).
Oh perfect! Thank you sir.
If you get a chance, perhaps you can get their opinion on what they and the Korean Community would prefer? Super Clan League style? ISL type style?
@Starburst You mentioned actually going to SK? What exactly are your connections?
@everyone else We have a pretty good foot in the door now. Thanks to our translators. I guess I'll go ahead with getting the Kickstarter details figured out and if that looks good along with CaucasianAsian coordinating we'll start getting dates set! 
EDIT: And as far as kickstarter goes we need to figure out what people want:
What conditions does the community want on the kickstarter?
Maybe they'd prefer someone besides me running it? (I'm all for less responsibility )
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On April 29 2012 02:34 maltey wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2012 02:21 CaucasianAsian wrote:
I speak conversational Korean, I'm still learning, but i'm friends / practice with some top amateurs who would be willing to play in a global tournament (I dislike the idea of having this foreigner / korean divide that we have today. We need to get rid of it all together). Oh perfect! Thank you sir. If you get a chance, perhaps you can get their opinion on what they and the Korean Community would prefer? Super Clan League style? ISL type style? @Starburst You mentioned actually going to SK? What exactly are your connections? @everyone else We have a pretty good foot in the door now. Thanks to our translators. I guess I'll go ahead with getting the Kickstarter details figured out and if that looks good along with CaucasianAsian coordinating we'll start getting dates set! EDIT: And as far as kickstarter goes we need to figure out what people want: What conditions does the community want on the kickstarter? Maybe they'd prefer someone besides me running it? (I'm all for less responsibility )
There was already a clan battle before where a foreign all-star team was invited to play.
At this moment, I think an individual league is better than a team-style play, because if people can get a good connection with some amateur teams in Korea, they will destroy a lot of foreign teams today (they're pretty good. And by that, they're pretty damn good). It's better to spotlight those who do well individually, then we work from there (similar to how BW leagues actually started out).
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49489 Posts
On April 29 2012 02:38 supernovamaniac wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2012 02:34 maltey wrote:On April 29 2012 02:21 CaucasianAsian wrote:
I speak conversational Korean, I'm still learning, but i'm friends / practice with some top amateurs who would be willing to play in a global tournament (I dislike the idea of having this foreigner / korean divide that we have today. We need to get rid of it all together). Oh perfect! Thank you sir. If you get a chance, perhaps you can get their opinion on what they and the Korean Community would prefer? Super Clan League style? ISL type style? @Starburst You mentioned actually going to SK? What exactly are your connections? @everyone else We have a pretty good foot in the door now. Thanks to our translators. I guess I'll go ahead with getting the Kickstarter details figured out and if that looks good along with CaucasianAsian coordinating we'll start getting dates set! EDIT: And as far as kickstarter goes we need to figure out what people want: What conditions does the community want on the kickstarter? Maybe they'd prefer someone besides me running it? (I'm all for less responsibility ) There was already a clan battle before where a foreign all-star team was invited to play. At this moment, I think an individual league is better than a team-style play, because if people can get a good connection with some amateur teams in Korea, they will destroy a lot of foreign teams today (they're pretty good. And by that, they're pretty damn good). It's better to spotlight those who do well individually, then we work from there (similar to how BW leagues actually started out).
I was thinking individual league too, so that we can familiarize with the players and what not.
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My name is eeniebear and I support this thread.
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We have plenty of tournaments and they aren't very good. What we need are players. More activity on the iCCup server or where ever the community is going to be. Number 1 on the list is making it easier to get games, or basically making it so people don't have to go through the process of port forwarding which can be tedious and unreliable depending on your set up.
If we have more players, the level of competition will rise and the tournaments might be worth watching / the scene in general might be more interesting.
It would be cool if iCCup implemented some kind of elo ranking system instead of their 3 month ladders, since one of the biggest complaints of new players is that all they old players destroy D rank competition without really having the motivation to achieve their true ranks (given that you have to play so many games just to get there).
so basically iCCup or where ever we're going to be is what needs improvement, not the tournaments. Throwing a few dumb cash prizes isn't going to make things better. That time and effort is better put to use making a server which hasn't changed in years better and more interactive.
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Canada11219 Posts
Adding Game Features
Making the game more accessible and enjoyable in general. MoC's Chaos Plugins were amazing but we need to take up the torch i think.
In regards to this, the single best thing would be to somehow fix the hosting problems and all those sorts of problems. Probably not feasable as you'd probably need the ability to mod BW. But there winds up being too many technical things to learn before many can play BW. Do this to fix the colour problems, learn how to portfoward to be able to host and even then apparently some can't host. Rather than, install BW, install iCCup or equivalent, play. For the really motivated, this is no trouble, but sets a technical hurdle for the neophyte right at the very beginning.
Edit.
Oh. Chef just said this...
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Korea (South)11568 Posts
On April 29 2012 02:58 Chef wrote:
We have plenty of tournaments and they aren't very good. What we need are players. More activity on the iCCup server or where ever the community is going to be. Number 1 on the list is making it easier to get games, or basically making it so people don't have to go through the process of port forwarding which can be tedious and unreliable depending on your set up.
If we have more players, the level of competition will rise and the tournaments might be worth watching / the scene in general might be more interesting.
It would be cool if iCCup implemented some kind of elo ranking system instead of their 3 month ladders, since one of the biggest complaints of new players is that all they old players destroy D rank competition without really having the motivation to achieve their true ranks (given that you have to play so many games just to get there).
so basically iCCup or where ever we're going to be is what needs improvement, not the tournaments. Throwing a few dumb cash prizes isn't going to make things better. That time and effort is better put to use making a server which hasn't changed in years better and more interactive.
No one plays iccup because the skill level is bad, not the server. People go where there is competition and iccup just doesn't have it for the skilled players. Fish and BrainClan and west have the skill, so that's where people go. I don't think iccup is going to last in the next few years.
I think what will combine the scenes the most is a foreign site on Fishbattle.net There needs to be a way for foreigners to enter the korean scene which is incredibly difficult. Bringing Koreans to the foreign scene just isn't going to happen. They have no incentive, but we have all the reasons to get into the korean scene.
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This is a really ambitious project, mad props for suggesting/organizing it.
I have basically no money, but I would still spend what I have to try and support just about all of these ideas.
TL is one of the most competent communities of people I've ever seen, so if anyone can make it happen, we can.
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I can speak and read Korean decently, though I have absolutely no knowledge of Korean amateur scene (or that of foreigners). Also I do not have much access to personal computer so can't even join BW actually... I guess I'll stick to routine translations when the break starts =/
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On April 29 2012 02:58 Chef wrote:
We have plenty of tournaments and they aren't very good. What we need are players. More activity on the iCCup server or where ever the community is going to be. Number 1 on the list is making it easier to get games, or basically making it so people don't have to go through the process of port forwarding which can be tedious and unreliable depending on your set up.
If we have more players, the level of competition will rise and the tournaments might be worth watching / the scene in general might be more interesting.
It would be cool if iCCup implemented some kind of elo ranking system instead of their 3 month ladders, since one of the biggest complaints of new players is that all they old players destroy D rank competition without really having the motivation to achieve their true ranks (given that you have to play so many games just to get there).
so basically iCCup or where ever we're going to be is what needs improvement, not the tournaments. Throwing a few dumb cash prizes isn't going to make things better. That time and effort is better put to use making a server which hasn't changed in years better and more interactive.
People tried that. It failed miserably and rotted from the inside via corruption. I mean people literally spent over a year, and some 2, trying to do that. I also don't appreciate you calling my efforts shitty.
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Ok excellent.
@SNM/BLinD-RawR
Thanks for the input. That sounds good to me. In which case it will have to be very much coordinated with game as it sounds like he has some projects he's working on as well.
@Chef/Falling
Thank you both for the input. I still believe having a Korean/Foreigner tourney would be a good idea as it helps bring together the two scenes. These two ideas can work in tandem.
And I disagree with chef that the tourneys aren't very good. They are awesome to watch.
You're right though I haven't put enough emphasis on improving the game itself and Iccup.
So here's my list of features critical to the success of BW:
1. Automatic Port Forwarding
2. Plugin to fix W7 Color Problem
3. ELO Ranking on ICCUP (Keep letter ranks and seasons, just have a lifetime ELO rank attached so noobs can dodge?)
4. Enhance Resolution Plugin (Force AA/Image sharpening maybe as some GPU's don't do this)
5. Android Apps that link to ICCUP (like the awesome Fish server chat app)
Any other ideas?
EDIT:
@Game @CaucasianAsian
Ok I guess my list can apply to Fish/Brain Server?
Maybe our translators can start there? So should we apply efforts to getting English Fish site?
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On April 29 2012 03:39 maltey wrote:
Ok excellent.
@SNM/BLinD-RawR
Thanks for the input. That sounds good to me. In which case it will have to be very much coordinated with game as it sounds like he has some projects he's working on as well.
@Chef/Falling
Thank you both for the input. I still believe having a Korean/Foreigner tourney would be a good idea as it helps bring together the two scenes. These two ideas can work in tandem.
And I disagree with chef that the tourneys aren't very good. They are awesome to watch.
You're right though I haven't put enough emphasis on improving the game itself and Iccup.
So here's my list of features critical to the success of BW:
1. Automatic Port Forwarding
2. Plugin to fix W7 Color Problem
3. ELO Ranking on ICCUP (Keep letter ranks and seasons, just have a lifetime ELO rank attached so noobs can dodge?)
4. Enhance Resolution Plugin (Force AA/Image sharpening maybe as some GPU's don't do this)
5. Android Apps that link to ICCUP (like the awesome Fish server chat app)
Any other ideas?
EDIT:
@Game @CaucasianAsian
Ok I guess my list can apply to Fish/Brain Server?
Maybe our translators can start there? So should we apply efforts to getting English Fish site?
Ehh not sure how many people from Fish want to collaborate because they did ban foreign IP (or was it brain?) due to massive amounts of cheating (brain is dead btw, Fish killed it). Also if anything, the people running the server aren't as bad as iCCup, but some of them are still childish (there was an incident where the person running the server just completely shutdown Fish because there was internal fight... problem was resolved under a day, but yeah).
Also just because you don't like one person doesn't mean that his efforts to make something better become complete shit, heads up.
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United Kingdom1666 Posts
It might be worth calling some more attention to this. The title is confusing, but a good point is raised by the OP. This topic
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On April 29 2012 03:47 supernovamaniac wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2012 03:39 maltey wrote:
Ok excellent.
@SNM/BLinD-RawR
Thanks for the input. That sounds good to me. In which case it will have to be very much coordinated with game as it sounds like he has some projects he's working on as well.
@Chef/Falling
Thank you both for the input. I still believe having a Korean/Foreigner tourney would be a good idea as it helps bring together the two scenes. These two ideas can work in tandem.
And I disagree with chef that the tourneys aren't very good. They are awesome to watch.
You're right though I haven't put enough emphasis on improving the game itself and Iccup.
So here's my list of features critical to the success of BW:
1. Automatic Port Forwarding
2. Plugin to fix W7 Color Problem
3. ELO Ranking on ICCUP (Keep letter ranks and seasons, just have a lifetime ELO rank attached so noobs can dodge?)
4. Enhance Resolution Plugin (Force AA/Image sharpening maybe as some GPU's don't do this)
5. Android Apps that link to ICCUP (like the awesome Fish server chat app)
Any other ideas?
EDIT:
@Game @CaucasianAsian
Ok I guess my list can apply to Fish/Brain Server?
Maybe our translators can start there? So should we apply efforts to getting English Fish site? Ehh not sure how many people from Fish want to collaborate because they did ban foreign IP (or was it brain?) due to massive amounts of cheating (brain is dead btw, Fish killed it). Also if anything, the people running the server aren't as bad as iCCup, but some of them are still childish (there was an incident where the person running the server just completely shutdown Fish because there was internal fight... problem was resolved under a day, but yeah). Also just because you don't like one person doesn't mean that his efforts to make something better become complete shit, heads up.
Whoopsie daisies! I hope I didn't come across as disliking someone. I'm just trying to get a consensus on what people think should happen as I don't think this will succeed unless the community is behind it.
Also, I thought CA's idea of an English FishBattle.net sounded like a step towards uniting the scenes. But as I'm a revolting noobie I play almost always on ICCUP so I'm very open to either direction.
It sounds like we'll have server drama either way we go.
EDIT:
On April 29 2012 03:56 ImbaTosS wrote:It might be worth calling some more attention to this. The title is confusing, but a good point is raised by the OP. This topic
Added to OP. ty
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Bisutopia19142 Posts
I will contribute as a:
1. Programmer - I'm an experienced video game developer I'm sure I can help
2. Caster - I shoutcasted tournaments in Orlando and Gaineville Fl. Just haven't had time to do quality stuff for TL
3. Sponsor - I am more then willing to sponsor tournaments when my budget permits.
Basically, pm me when I need to be involved otherwise I'll be forgetful since I already am so caught up with all that is happening in the SC world.
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On April 29 2012 03:59 maltey wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2012 03:47 supernovamaniac wrote:On April 29 2012 03:39 maltey wrote:
Ok excellent.
@SNM/BLinD-RawR
Thanks for the input. That sounds good to me. In which case it will have to be very much coordinated with game as it sounds like he has some projects he's working on as well.
@Chef/Falling
Thank you both for the input. I still believe having a Korean/Foreigner tourney would be a good idea as it helps bring together the two scenes. These two ideas can work in tandem.
And I disagree with chef that the tourneys aren't very good. They are awesome to watch.
You're right though I haven't put enough emphasis on improving the game itself and Iccup.
So here's my list of features critical to the success of BW:
1. Automatic Port Forwarding
2. Plugin to fix W7 Color Problem
3. ELO Ranking on ICCUP (Keep letter ranks and seasons, just have a lifetime ELO rank attached so noobs can dodge?)
4. Enhance Resolution Plugin (Force AA/Image sharpening maybe as some GPU's don't do this)
5. Android Apps that link to ICCUP (like the awesome Fish server chat app)
Any other ideas?
EDIT:
@Game @CaucasianAsian
Ok I guess my list can apply to Fish/Brain Server?
Maybe our translators can start there? So should we apply efforts to getting English Fish site? Ehh not sure how many people from Fish want to collaborate because they did ban foreign IP (or was it brain?) due to massive amounts of cheating (brain is dead btw, Fish killed it). Also if anything, the people running the server aren't as bad as iCCup, but some of them are still childish (there was an incident where the person running the server just completely shutdown Fish because there was internal fight... problem was resolved under a day, but yeah). Also just because you don't like one person doesn't mean that his efforts to make something better become complete shit, heads up. Whoopsie daisies! I hope I didn't come across as disliking someone. I'm just trying to get a consensus on what people think should happen as I don't think this will succeed unless the community is behind it. Also, I thought CA's idea of an English FishBattle.net sounded like a step towards uniting the scenes. But as I'm a revolting noobie I play almost always on ICCUP so I'm very open to either direction. It sounds like we'll have server drama either way we go. EDIT: Show nested quote +On April 29 2012 03:56 ImbaTosS wrote:It might be worth calling some more attention to this. The title is confusing, but a good point is raised by the OP. This topic Added to OP. ty
I wasn't pointing at your responses, I was just giving heads up to some people who were trying to downplay some of the efforts of some people in this community (read everything and you might find what I'm talking about)
English Fishbnet is a good idea, and it will allow players to play on one of the most reliable servers out there. However, the problem is that when iCCup players try to play on fish, they will get destroyed (to some extent) and that's what I'm worrying about the most.
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EPT
