Some of the coaches consider it partly the korean bw scene's fault that it's come to this. I just hope whatever comes after sc2 will be more like bw. Maybe by then blizzard and kespa will have both learned enough hard lessons to do it right from the ground up.
Blizzard should just get all the TBLS together to have a conference on how to make the game better. Oh better yet, fire that Dustin Browder guy and then get the TBLS as the lead designers and the rest of the A-teamers be the testers!
The TBLS have made major mistakes in different eras of their play too, not to mention the meta gaming is dependent vastly on the maps and map making even more so than just units once the game stabilizes enough. There's still 2 expansions to SC2, too early.
Dude regardless of their playing ability, their notion of gameplay as professional gamers are much more enhanced than the ones of an average Joe. They full comprehend how to design a game that is suitable to carry the torch of Electronic Sports.
Seriously would anyone rather a group of knowledgeable guys who themselves have experienced and understand the ins and out of the undisputable most competive RTS game ever created in the history of mankind. Or would you want to have someone like Dustin Browder who took away the single most important component of making a viable gaming model, the LAN support.
Problem is regardless of how much knowledge the players may have, they have reporter's bias, what you should be asking is for the coaching staff of KT / SKT / Khan (lol) etc to be doing balancing. Regardless of how good a player is you should never ask him to be the referee of the game while he is still a professional player, let alone change the rules. Even if the players are perfectly unbiased in the game design changes, it's still knowledge as well as pressure that compromises the integrity of the games that he's involved in. At best you should be asking retired players like iloveoov to give their opinions.
Cs 1.6 and source professional players are giving their feed back to cs go and that to me is excellent because they involve the community in the development of the game . Unlike Dustin bowder and friend .... when sen ask for improvement he blatantly just face palm sen with " Don't like sc2 , Go play BW " . Thank god I will be going back to counter strike scene when cs go is released . Ksharp and friends it has been a long time ...
Check out the recoil while you are at it .
Why did the pros want the recoil being less? Doesn't that make the game easier?
Afaik!
More Recoil = More Random = Bad.
CS 1.6 pros (and all 1.6 players) just want 1.6 recoil and movement in CS:GO.
Because they want a carbon copy generally, or is recoil specifically an issue (I know nothing about competitive FPS, legitimately curious)?
It's like Mutas in BW and in SC2, but worse. You can learn to control recoil and thus get good at spraying in 1.6. In CSS there's hardly anything to learn in that regard.
Blizzard should just get all the TBLS together to have a conference on how to make the game better. Oh better yet, fire that Dustin Browder guy and then get the TBLS as the lead designers and the rest of the A-teamers be the testers!
The TBLS have made major mistakes in different eras of their play too, not to mention the meta gaming is dependent vastly on the maps and map making even more so than just units once the game stabilizes enough. There's still 2 expansions to SC2, too early.
Dude regardless of their playing ability, their notion of gameplay as professional gamers are much more enhanced than the ones of an average Joe. They full comprehend how to design a game that is suitable to carry the torch of Electronic Sports.
Seriously would anyone rather a group of knowledgeable guys who themselves have experienced and understand the ins and out of the undisputable most competive RTS game ever created in the history of mankind. Or would you want to have someone like Dustin Browder who took away the single most important component of making a viable gaming model, the LAN support.
Problem is regardless of how much knowledge the players may have, they have reporter's bias, what you should be asking is for the coaching staff of KT / SKT / Khan (lol) etc to be doing balancing. Regardless of how good a player is you should never ask him to be the referee of the game while he is still a professional player, let alone change the rules. Even if the players are perfectly unbiased in the game design changes, it's still knowledge as well as pressure that compromises the integrity of the games that he's involved in. At best you should be asking retired players like iloveoov to give their opinions.
Cs 1.6 and source professional players are giving their feed back to cs go and that to me is excellent because they involve the community in the development of the game . Unlike Dustin bowder and friend .... when sen ask for improvement he blatantly just face palm sen with " Don't like sc2 , Go play BW " . Thank god I will be going back to counter strike scene when cs go is released . Ksharp and friends it has been a long time ...
Why did the pros want the recoil being less? Doesn't that make the game easier?
Afaik!
More Recoil = More Random = Bad.
CS 1.6 pros (and all 1.6 players) just want 1.6 recoil and movement in CS:GO.
Because they want a carbon copy generally, or is recoil specifically an issue (I know nothing about competitive FPS, legitimately curious)?
It's like Mutas in BW and in SC2, but worse. You can learn to control recoil and thus get good at spraying in 1.6. In CSS there's hardly anything to learn in that regard.
CSS recoil patterns are the exact same as 1.6's... it's the hit boxes that are broken
On April 27 2012 20:18 nokz88 wrote: I came here if the comments from the coaches would sway some fans, but I'm sad that I was terribly wrong
People are busy still discussing whether a game is better or worse and spilling their hate all over
To be honest, i wouldn't give a damn if the vocal minority that's actively debating better or worse are swayed, because those people are usually not an asset to any community anyway.
This is the best post on the BW forums for a long long damn long time.
When Starcraft first came out, there was a vocal minority saying it was just "Warcraft in space", goofy looking, Aliens ripoff, Warhammer 2k ripoff, generic, nothing new, not as good as Warcraft 2.
And blizzard overhauled the game and it ended up being great...
The TBLS have made major mistakes in different eras of their play too, not to mention the meta gaming is dependent vastly on the maps and map making even more so than just units once the game stabilizes enough. There's still 2 expansions to SC2, too early.
Dude regardless of their playing ability, their notion of gameplay as professional gamers are much more enhanced than the ones of an average Joe. They full comprehend how to design a game that is suitable to carry the torch of Electronic Sports.
Seriously would anyone rather a group of knowledgeable guys who themselves have experienced and understand the ins and out of the undisputable most competive RTS game ever created in the history of mankind. Or would you want to have someone like Dustin Browder who took away the single most important component of making a viable gaming model, the LAN support.
Problem is regardless of how much knowledge the players may have, they have reporter's bias, what you should be asking is for the coaching staff of KT / SKT / Khan (lol) etc to be doing balancing. Regardless of how good a player is you should never ask him to be the referee of the game while he is still a professional player, let alone change the rules. Even if the players are perfectly unbiased in the game design changes, it's still knowledge as well as pressure that compromises the integrity of the games that he's involved in. At best you should be asking retired players like iloveoov to give their opinions.
Cs 1.6 and source professional players are giving their feed back to cs go and that to me is excellent because they involve the community in the development of the game . Unlike Dustin bowder and friend .... when sen ask for improvement he blatantly just face palm sen with " Don't like sc2 , Go play BW " . Thank god I will be going back to counter strike scene when cs go is released . Ksharp and friends it has been a long time ...
Why did the pros want the recoil being less? Doesn't that make the game easier?
Afaik!
More Recoil = More Random = Bad.
CS 1.6 pros (and all 1.6 players) just want 1.6 recoil and movement in CS:GO.
Because they want a carbon copy generally, or is recoil specifically an issue (I know nothing about competitive FPS, legitimately curious)?
It's like Mutas in BW and in SC2, but worse. You can learn to control recoil and thus get good at spraying in 1.6. In CSS there's hardly anything to learn in that regard.
CSS recoil patterns are the exact same as 1.6's... it's the hit boxes that are broken
I'm pretty sure the hitbox thing in CSS was fixed. But CSS spraying/recoil is just too easy, spray with an AK in 1.6 and then in CSS and you will see how easy it is in CSS.
On April 27 2012 20:18 nokz88 wrote: I came here if the comments from the coaches would sway some fans, but I'm sad that I was terribly wrong
People are busy still discussing whether a game is better or worse and spilling their hate all over
To be honest, i wouldn't give a damn if the vocal minority that's actively debating better or worse are swayed, because those people are usually not an asset to any community anyway.
This is the best post on the BW forums for a long long damn long time.
nvm, but still pretty ignorant to say that the vocal minority should shut up. Most of the time it IS A MINORITY who is talking about something, and the big part is staying shut. should the loud people now hold their fresse too?
When Starcraft first came out, there was a vocal minority saying it was just "Warcraft in space", goofy looking, Aliens ripoff, Warhammer 2k ripoff, generic, nothing new, not as good as Warcraft 2.
Wasn't SC being criticized by fans BEFORE it came out, because of the WC2 engine? You know, I wasn't into the scene right from the beginning, but that doesn't mean I don't know shit.
The TBLS have made major mistakes in different eras of their play too, not to mention the meta gaming is dependent vastly on the maps and map making even more so than just units once the game stabilizes enough. There's still 2 expansions to SC2, too early.
Dude regardless of their playing ability, their notion of gameplay as professional gamers are much more enhanced than the ones of an average Joe. They full comprehend how to design a game that is suitable to carry the torch of Electronic Sports.
Seriously would anyone rather a group of knowledgeable guys who themselves have experienced and understand the ins and out of the undisputable most competive RTS game ever created in the history of mankind. Or would you want to have someone like Dustin Browder who took away the single most important component of making a viable gaming model, the LAN support.
Problem is regardless of how much knowledge the players may have, they have reporter's bias, what you should be asking is for the coaching staff of KT / SKT / Khan (lol) etc to be doing balancing. Regardless of how good a player is you should never ask him to be the referee of the game while he is still a professional player, let alone change the rules. Even if the players are perfectly unbiased in the game design changes, it's still knowledge as well as pressure that compromises the integrity of the games that he's involved in. At best you should be asking retired players like iloveoov to give their opinions.
Cs 1.6 and source professional players are giving their feed back to cs go and that to me is excellent because they involve the community in the development of the game . Unlike Dustin bowder and friend .... when sen ask for improvement he blatantly just face palm sen with " Don't like sc2 , Go play BW " . Thank god I will be going back to counter strike scene when cs go is released . Ksharp and friends it has been a long time ...
Why did the pros want the recoil being less? Doesn't that make the game easier?
Afaik!
More Recoil = More Random = Bad.
CS 1.6 pros (and all 1.6 players) just want 1.6 recoil and movement in CS:GO.
Because they want a carbon copy generally, or is recoil specifically an issue (I know nothing about competitive FPS, legitimately curious)?
It's like Mutas in BW and in SC2, but worse. You can learn to control recoil and thus get good at spraying in 1.6. In CSS there's hardly anything to learn in that regard.
CSS recoil patterns are the exact same as 1.6's... it's the hit boxes that are broken
Its the damn netcode that messes everything up (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)
Dude regardless of their playing ability, their notion of gameplay as professional gamers are much more enhanced than the ones of an average Joe. They full comprehend how to design a game that is suitable to carry the torch of Electronic Sports.
Seriously would anyone rather a group of knowledgeable guys who themselves have experienced and understand the ins and out of the undisputable most competive RTS game ever created in the history of mankind. Or would you want to have someone like Dustin Browder who took away the single most important component of making a viable gaming model, the LAN support.
Problem is regardless of how much knowledge the players may have, they have reporter's bias, what you should be asking is for the coaching staff of KT / SKT / Khan (lol) etc to be doing balancing. Regardless of how good a player is you should never ask him to be the referee of the game while he is still a professional player, let alone change the rules. Even if the players are perfectly unbiased in the game design changes, it's still knowledge as well as pressure that compromises the integrity of the games that he's involved in. At best you should be asking retired players like iloveoov to give their opinions.
Cs 1.6 and source professional players are giving their feed back to cs go and that to me is excellent because they involve the community in the development of the game . Unlike Dustin bowder and friend .... when sen ask for improvement he blatantly just face palm sen with " Don't like sc2 , Go play BW " . Thank god I will be going back to counter strike scene when cs go is released . Ksharp and friends it has been a long time ...
Why did the pros want the recoil being less? Doesn't that make the game easier?
Afaik!
More Recoil = More Random = Bad.
CS 1.6 pros (and all 1.6 players) just want 1.6 recoil and movement in CS:GO.
Because they want a carbon copy generally, or is recoil specifically an issue (I know nothing about competitive FPS, legitimately curious)?
It's like Mutas in BW and in SC2, but worse. You can learn to control recoil and thus get good at spraying in 1.6. In CSS there's hardly anything to learn in that regard.
CSS recoil patterns are the exact same as 1.6's... it's the hit boxes that are broken
I'm pretty sure the hitbox thing in CSS was fixed. But CSS spraying/recoil is just too easy, spray with an AK in 1.6 and then in CSS and you will see how easy it is in CSS.
It's easy in CSS because the hit boxes are so big, they are larger than the player model. At launch they were awful, they did improve them, but they are still larger than the player. Valve released images of them when they were showing off the differences between 1.6 / css / cs:go hitboxes.
On April 27 2012 20:18 nokz88 wrote: I came here if the comments from the coaches would sway some fans, but I'm sad that I was terribly wrong
People are busy still discussing whether a game is better or worse and spilling their hate all over
To be honest, i wouldn't give a damn if the vocal minority that's actively debating better or worse are swayed, because those people are usually not an asset to any community anyway.
This is the best post on the BW forums for a long long damn long time.
When Starcraft first came out, there was a vocal minority saying it was just "Warcraft in space", goofy looking, Aliens ripoff, Warhammer 2k ripoff, generic, nothing new, not as good as Warcraft 2. Command and Conquer fans said it sucked, Total Annihilation fans said it sucked and that TA was a far superior game, and there were plenty of Warcraft 2 players who refused to even accept it (sounds similar?) The original Starcraft had a hellish development cycle, the worst of any Blizzard game bar Starcraft Ghost and Warcraft Adventures: Lord of the Clans. It was mere luck that the game ever came out.
Of course most Brood War "fans" dont know anything about that, because most started watching after it got big in Korea. Yet think they were there from beginning and that they have some divine right and privilege to disregard any and all competitive RTS games.
Its just like the Counter Strike fans who crap all over any and all current FPS games, proclaiming their own to be some sort of messiah and pinnacle of the genre, yet they totally disregard the competitive scene that Doom, Quake 1, 2 and Unreal had before hand. They dont even know who Dennis "Thresh" Fong is, nor what "The Edge" means in regarding to Quake 2 and its own scene.
The desire to have your own little exclusive community, where you can trash other similar games to somehow validate your the one you follow seems to be much stronger than the desire to be more open minded regarding esports as a whole and be open to new ideas and games.
Its never really about the games, but more often than not, it is the us vs. them mentality. Most hardcore/competitive gamers of any genre do not posses the ability to turn that competitiveness off at times, so everything has to be turned into that, its about pride more than anything else.
No man, THIS post is the best post... And I am making this my signature. At first, even I despised SC when I held it's CD-ROM when it was released, after playing days , weeks of warcraft series, now thinking about it it was Warcraft II that made me an RTS fan not Starcraft...
The truth and awesomeness of this post is divine. I hope to meet you someday, all of my thoughts and feelings in one post Much respect!
And it summarizes and shows the logic/ambition/attitude behind the clash of the forums perfectly...
On April 27 2012 20:18 nokz88 wrote: I came here if the comments from the coaches would sway some fans, but I'm sad that I was terribly wrong
People are busy still discussing whether a game is better or worse and spilling their hate all over
To be honest, i wouldn't give a damn if the vocal minority that's actively debating better or worse are swayed, because those people are usually not an asset to any community anyway.
This is the best post on the BW forums for a long long damn long time.
When Starcraft first came out, there was a vocal minority saying it was just "Warcraft in space", goofy looking, Aliens ripoff, Warhammer 2k ripoff, generic, nothing new, not as good as Warcraft 2. Command and Conquer fans said it sucked, Total Annihilation fans said it sucked and that TA was a far superior game, and there were plenty of Warcraft 2 players who refused to even accept it (sounds similar?) The original Starcraft had a hellish development cycle, the worst of any Blizzard game bar Starcraft Ghost and Warcraft Adventures: Lord of the Clans. It was mere luck that the game ever came out.
Of course most Brood War "fans" dont know anything about that, because most started watching after it got big in Korea. Yet think they were there from beginning and that they have some divine right and privilege to disregard any and all competitive RTS games.
Its just like the Counter Strike fans who crap all over any and all current FPS games, proclaiming their own to be some sort of messiah and pinnacle of the genre, yet they totally disregard the competitive scene that Doom, Quake 1, 2 and Unreal had before hand. They dont even know who Dennis "Thresh" Fong is, nor what "The Edge" means in regarding to Quake 2 and its own scene.
The desire to have your own little exclusive community, where you can trash other similar games to somehow validate your the one you follow seems to be much stronger than the desire to be more open minded regarding esports as a whole and be open to new ideas and games.
Its never really about the games, but more often than not, it is the us vs. them mentality. Most hardcore/competitive gamers of any genre do not posses the ability to turn that competitiveness off at times, so everything has to be turned into that, its about pride more than anything else.
This has got to be one of the most ignorant posts I have ever seen...do YOU know anything about what Starcraft was like when it was called warcraft in space? Doesn't sound like it, because it WAS WARCRAFT IN SPACE! I love how you assume that it's some little gem that you've somehow learned and BW fans don't and actually prove just how ill-informed you really are.
. There wasn't anything in that version of the game that remotely resembled what Broodwar is today. Not.A.Damn.Thing. Thank god people spoke up and and the backlash got blizzard to actually completely redesign the game engine.
And no shit we started watching it after it got big in korea, this is a foreigner site, how else were we going to watch it? The internet was still dial-up and there were no VODS, anyway. The best the community got was a recap of someone who was there.
and LOL at you thinking people sit around the Broodwar forum and talk shit about other games...really? FYI this website was THE Broodwar community, and only a broodwar community before the SC2 influx came in. Naturally anyone here before that may feel that this is THEIRS. It was. Most Broodwar players don't want SC2 to be a carbon copy of BW, but they don't like SC2 in it's current form SO THEY WANT TO STICK WITH BROODWAR. Why is that so hard to understand? If you're American, then it would be like if Arena football became super popular and the NFL was just a shell of it's former self. "Damn NFL holdouts, obviously they are just living in the past and elitist, dismissing and talking shit about hockey and baseball and now that the new football league is out they talk shit about that...it's just pride, man, not that fact that they think its better."
Please take your self-righteous crap someplace else.
P.S. Broodwar is the pinnacle of the RTS genre, please provide any information regarding another RTS game that has 1) Even been considered an esport, 2) been played for the past 14 years, and 3) Has anywhere near the infrastructure and money pumped into it from third parties.
I feel that the coaches are keeping their cards close to their chest. They sure know alot about their chances in SC2 than they are revealing to the public.
Dude regardless of their playing ability, their notion of gameplay as professional gamers are much more enhanced than the ones of an average Joe. They full comprehend how to design a game that is suitable to carry the torch of Electronic Sports.
Seriously would anyone rather a group of knowledgeable guys who themselves have experienced and understand the ins and out of the undisputable most competive RTS game ever created in the history of mankind. Or would you want to have someone like Dustin Browder who took away the single most important component of making a viable gaming model, the LAN support.
Problem is regardless of how much knowledge the players may have, they have reporter's bias, what you should be asking is for the coaching staff of KT / SKT / Khan (lol) etc to be doing balancing. Regardless of how good a player is you should never ask him to be the referee of the game while he is still a professional player, let alone change the rules. Even if the players are perfectly unbiased in the game design changes, it's still knowledge as well as pressure that compromises the integrity of the games that he's involved in. At best you should be asking retired players like iloveoov to give their opinions.
Cs 1.6 and source professional players are giving their feed back to cs go and that to me is excellent because they involve the community in the development of the game . Unlike Dustin bowder and friend .... when sen ask for improvement he blatantly just face palm sen with " Don't like sc2 , Go play BW " . Thank god I will be going back to counter strike scene when cs go is released . Ksharp and friends it has been a long time ...
Why did the pros want the recoil being less? Doesn't that make the game easier?
Afaik!
More Recoil = More Random = Bad.
CS 1.6 pros (and all 1.6 players) just want 1.6 recoil and movement in CS:GO.
Because they want a carbon copy generally, or is recoil specifically an issue (I know nothing about competitive FPS, legitimately curious)?
It's like Mutas in BW and in SC2, but worse. You can learn to control recoil and thus get good at spraying in 1.6. In CSS there's hardly anything to learn in that regard.
CSS recoil patterns are the exact same as 1.6's... it's the hit boxes that are broken
I'm pretty sure the hitbox thing in CSS was fixed. But CSS spraying/recoil is just too easy, spray with an AK in 1.6 and then in CSS and you will see how easy it is in CSS.
mid-close AK spray with enemy team coming bowling around the corner while Fb'ed and then ace the team =O good ole' days of 1.6 in cal
On April 27 2012 20:18 nokz88 wrote: I came here if the comments from the coaches would sway some fans, but I'm sad that I was terribly wrong
People are busy still discussing whether a game is better or worse and spilling their hate all over
To be honest, i wouldn't give a damn if the vocal minority that's actively debating better or worse are swayed, because those people are usually not an asset to any community anyway.
This is the best post on the BW forums for a long long damn long time.
When Starcraft first came out, there was a vocal minority saying it was just "Warcraft in space", goofy looking, Aliens ripoff, Warhammer 2k ripoff, generic, nothing new, not as good as Warcraft 2. Command and Conquer fans said it sucked, Total Annihilation fans said it sucked and that TA was a far superior game, and there were plenty of Warcraft 2 players who refused to even accept it (sounds similar?) The original Starcraft had a hellish development cycle, the worst of any Blizzard game bar Starcraft Ghost and Warcraft Adventures: Lord of the Clans. It was mere luck that the game ever came out.
Of course most Brood War "fans" dont know anything about that, because most started watching after it got big in Korea. Yet think they were there from beginning and that they have some divine right and privilege to disregard any and all competitive RTS games.
Its just like the Counter Strike fans who crap all over any and all current FPS games, proclaiming their own to be some sort of messiah and pinnacle of the genre, yet they totally disregard the competitive scene that Doom, Quake 1, 2 and Unreal had before hand. They dont even know who Dennis "Thresh" Fong is, nor what "The Edge" means in regarding to Quake 2 and its own scene.
The desire to have your own little exclusive community, where you can trash other similar games to somehow validate your the one you follow seems to be much stronger than the desire to be more open minded regarding esports as a whole and be open to new ideas and games.
Its never really about the games, but more often than not, it is the us vs. them mentality. Most hardcore/competitive gamers of any genre do not posses the ability to turn that competitiveness off at times, so everything has to be turned into that, its about pride more than anything else.
This has got to be one of the most ignorant posts I have ever seen...do YOU know anything about what Starcraft was like when it was called warcraft in space? Doesn't sound like it, because it WAS WARCRAFT IN SPACE! I love how you assume that it's some little gem that you've somehow learned and BW fans don't and actually prove just how ill-informed you really are.
. There wasn't anything in that version of the game that remotely resembled what Broodwar is today. Not.A.Damn.Thing. Thank god people spoke up and and the backlash got blizzard to actually completely redesign the game engine.
And no shit we started watching it after it got big in korea, this is a foreigner site, how else were we going to watch it? The internet was still dial-up and there were no VODS, anyway. The best the community got was a recap of someone who was there.
and LOL at you thinking people sit around the Broodwar forum and talk shit about other games...really? FYI this website was THE Broodwar community, and only a broodwar community before the SC2 influx came in. Naturally anyone here before that may feel that this is THEIRS. It was. Most Broodwar players don't want SC2 to be a carbon copy of BW, but they don't like SC2 in it's current form SO THEY WANT TO STICK WITH BROODWAR. Why is that so hard to understand? If you're American, then it would be like if Arena football became super popular and the NFL was just a shell of it's former self. "Damn NFL holdouts, obviously they are just living in the past and elitist, dismissing and talking shit about hockey and baseball and now that the new football league is out they talk shit about that...it's just pride, man, not that fact that they think its better."
Please take your self-righteous crap someplace else.
P.S. Broodwar is the pinnacle of the RTS genre, please provide any information regarding another RTS game that has 1) Even been considered an esport, 2) been played for the past 14 years, and 3) Has anywhere near the infrastructure and money pumped into it from third parties.
seems like the pot is calling the kettle black here x.x
On April 27 2012 20:18 nokz88 wrote: I came here if the comments from the coaches would sway some fans, but I'm sad that I was terribly wrong
People are busy still discussing whether a game is better or worse and spilling their hate all over
To be honest, i wouldn't give a damn if the vocal minority that's actively debating better or worse are swayed, because those people are usually not an asset to any community anyway.
This is the best post on the BW forums for a long long damn long time.
When Starcraft first came out, there was a vocal minority saying it was just "Warcraft in space", goofy looking, Aliens ripoff, Warhammer 2k ripoff, generic, nothing new, not as good as Warcraft 2. Command and Conquer fans said it sucked, Total Annihilation fans said it sucked and that TA was a far superior game, and there were plenty of Warcraft 2 players who refused to even accept it (sounds similar?) The original Starcraft had a hellish development cycle, the worst of any Blizzard game bar Starcraft Ghost and Warcraft Adventures: Lord of the Clans. It was mere luck that the game ever came out.
Of course most Brood War "fans" dont know anything about that, because most started watching after it got big in Korea. Yet think they were there from beginning and that they have some divine right and privilege to disregard any and all competitive RTS games.
Its just like the Counter Strike fans who crap all over any and all current FPS games, proclaiming their own to be some sort of messiah and pinnacle of the genre, yet they totally disregard the competitive scene that Doom, Quake 1, 2 and Unreal had before hand. They dont even know who Dennis "Thresh" Fong is, nor what "The Edge" means in regarding to Quake 2 and its own scene.
The desire to have your own little exclusive community, where you can trash other similar games to somehow validate your the one you follow seems to be much stronger than the desire to be more open minded regarding esports as a whole and be open to new ideas and games.
Its never really about the games, but more often than not, it is the us vs. them mentality. Most hardcore/competitive gamers of any genre do not posses the ability to turn that competitiveness off at times, so everything has to be turned into that, its about pride more than anything else.
This has got to be one of the most ignorant posts I have ever seen...do YOU know anything about what Starcraft was like when it was called warcraft in space? Doesn't sound like it, because it WAS WARCRAFT IN SPACE! I love how you assume that it's some little gem that you've somehow learned and BW fans don't and actually prove just how ill-informed you really are.
. There wasn't anything in that version of the game that remotely resembled what Broodwar is today. Not.A.Damn.Thing. Thank god people spoke up and and the backlash got blizzard to actually completely redesign the game engine.
And no shit we started watching it after it got big in korea, this is a foreigner site, how else were we going to watch it? The internet was still dial-up and there were no VODS, anyway. The best the community got was a recap of someone who was there.
and LOL at you thinking people sit around the Broodwar forum and talk shit about other games...really? FYI this website was THE Broodwar community, and only a broodwar community before the SC2 influx came in. Naturally anyone here before that may feel that this is THEIRS. It was. Most Broodwar players don't want SC2 to be a carbon copy of BW, but they don't like SC2 in it's current form SO THEY WANT TO STICK WITH BROODWAR. Why is that so hard to understand? If you're American, then it would be like if Arena football became super popular and the NFL was just a shell of it's former self. "Damn NFL holdouts, obviously they are just living in the past and elitist, dismissing and talking shit about hockey and baseball and now that the new football league is out they talk shit about that...it's just pride, man, not that fact that they think its better."
Please take your self-righteous crap someplace else.
P.S. Broodwar is the pinnacle of the RTS genre, please provide any information regarding another RTS game that has 1) Even been considered an esport, 2) been played for the past 14 years, and 3) Has anywhere near the infrastructure and money pumped into it from third parties.
seems like the pot is calling the kettle black here x.x
One person is making an argument about forum mentalities with wrong facts, the other person is pointing out the factual error. Not the same argument.
On April 27 2012 20:18 nokz88 wrote: I came here if the comments from the coaches would sway some fans, but I'm sad that I was terribly wrong
People are busy still discussing whether a game is better or worse and spilling their hate all over
To be honest, i wouldn't give a damn if the vocal minority that's actively debating better or worse are swayed, because those people are usually not an asset to any community anyway.
This is the best post on the BW forums for a long long damn long time.
When Starcraft first came out, there was a vocal minority saying it was just "Warcraft in space", goofy looking, Aliens ripoff, Warhammer 2k ripoff, generic, nothing new, not as good as Warcraft 2. Command and Conquer fans said it sucked, Total Annihilation fans said it sucked and that TA was a far superior game, and there were plenty of Warcraft 2 players who refused to even accept it (sounds similar?) The original Starcraft had a hellish development cycle, the worst of any Blizzard game bar Starcraft Ghost and Warcraft Adventures: Lord of the Clans. It was mere luck that the game ever came out.
Of course most Brood War "fans" dont know anything about that, because most started watching after it got big in Korea. Yet think they were there from beginning and that they have some divine right and privilege to disregard any and all competitive RTS games.
Its just like the Counter Strike fans who crap all over any and all current FPS games, proclaiming their own to be some sort of messiah and pinnacle of the genre, yet they totally disregard the competitive scene that Doom, Quake 1, 2 and Unreal had before hand. They dont even know who Dennis "Thresh" Fong is, nor what "The Edge" means in regarding to Quake 2 and its own scene.
The desire to have your own little exclusive community, where you can trash other similar games to somehow validate your the one you follow seems to be much stronger than the desire to be more open minded regarding esports as a whole and be open to new ideas and games.
Its never really about the games, but more often than not, it is the us vs. them mentality. Most hardcore/competitive gamers of any genre do not posses the ability to turn that competitiveness off at times, so everything has to be turned into that, its about pride more than anything else.
This has got to be one of the most ignorant posts I have ever seen...do YOU know anything about what Starcraft was like when it was called warcraft in space? Doesn't sound like it, because it WAS WARCRAFT IN SPACE! I love how you assume that it's some little gem that you've somehow learned and BW fans don't and actually prove just how ill-informed you really are.
. There wasn't anything in that version of the game that remotely resembled what Broodwar is today. Not.A.Damn.Thing. Thank god people spoke up and and the backlash got blizzard to actually completely redesign the game engine.
And no shit we started watching it after it got big in korea, this is a foreigner site, how else were we going to watch it? The internet was still dial-up and there were no VODS, anyway. The best the community got was a recap of someone who was there.
and LOL at you thinking people sit around the Broodwar forum and talk shit about other games...really? FYI this website was THE Broodwar community, and only a broodwar community before the SC2 influx came in. Naturally anyone here before that may feel that this is THEIRS. It was. Most Broodwar players don't want SC2 to be a carbon copy of BW, but they don't like SC2 in it's current form SO THEY WANT TO STICK WITH BROODWAR. Why is that so hard to understand? If you're American, then it would be like if Arena football became super popular and the NFL was just a shell of it's former self. "Damn NFL holdouts, obviously they are just living in the past and elitist, dismissing and talking shit about hockey and baseball and now that the new football league is out they talk shit about that...it's just pride, man, not that fact that they think its better."
Please take your self-righteous crap someplace else.
P.S. Broodwar is the pinnacle of the RTS genre, please provide any information regarding another RTS game that has 1) Even been considered an esport, 2) been played for the past 14 years, and 3) Has anywhere near the infrastructure and money pumped into it from third parties.
seems like the pot is calling the kettle black here x.x
One person is making an argument about forum mentalities with wrong facts, the other person is pointing out the factual error. Not the same argument.
I wasn't saying the argument was the same. More the fact that he was talking about "self righteous crap" when he is being self righteous himself
On April 27 2012 20:18 nokz88 wrote: I came here if the comments from the coaches would sway some fans, but I'm sad that I was terribly wrong
People are busy still discussing whether a game is better or worse and spilling their hate all over
To be honest, i wouldn't give a damn if the vocal minority that's actively debating better or worse are swayed, because those people are usually not an asset to any community anyway.
This is the best post on the BW forums for a long long damn long time.
When Starcraft first came out, there was a vocal minority saying it was just "Warcraft in space", goofy looking, Aliens ripoff, Warhammer 2k ripoff, generic, nothing new, not as good as Warcraft 2. Command and Conquer fans said it sucked, Total Annihilation fans said it sucked and that TA was a far superior game, and there were plenty of Warcraft 2 players who refused to even accept it (sounds similar?) The original Starcraft had a hellish development cycle, the worst of any Blizzard game bar Starcraft Ghost and Warcraft Adventures: Lord of the Clans. It was mere luck that the game ever came out.
Of course most Brood War "fans" dont know anything about that, because most started watching after it got big in Korea. Yet think they were there from beginning and that they have some divine right and privilege to disregard any and all competitive RTS games.
Its just like the Counter Strike fans who crap all over any and all current FPS games, proclaiming their own to be some sort of messiah and pinnacle of the genre, yet they totally disregard the competitive scene that Doom, Quake 1, 2 and Unreal had before hand. They dont even know who Dennis "Thresh" Fong is, nor what "The Edge" means in regarding to Quake 2 and its own scene.
The desire to have your own little exclusive community, where you can trash other similar games to somehow validate your the one you follow seems to be much stronger than the desire to be more open minded regarding esports as a whole and be open to new ideas and games.
Its never really about the games, but more often than not, it is the us vs. them mentality. Most hardcore/competitive gamers of any genre do not posses the ability to turn that competitiveness off at times, so everything has to be turned into that, its about pride more than anything else.
This has got to be one of the most ignorant posts I have ever seen...do YOU know anything about what Starcraft was like when it was called warcraft in space? Doesn't sound like it, because it WAS WARCRAFT IN SPACE! I love how you assume that it's some little gem that you've somehow learned and BW fans don't and actually prove just how ill-informed you really are.
. There wasn't anything in that version of the game that remotely resembled what Broodwar is today. Not.A.Damn.Thing. Thank god people spoke up and and the backlash got blizzard to actually completely redesign the game engine.
And no shit we started watching it after it got big in korea, this is a foreigner site, how else were we going to watch it? The internet was still dial-up and there were no VODS, anyway. The best the community got was a recap of someone who was there.
and LOL at you thinking people sit around the Broodwar forum and talk shit about other games...really? FYI this website was THE Broodwar community, and only a broodwar community before the SC2 influx came in. Naturally anyone here before that may feel that this is THEIRS. It was. Most Broodwar players don't want SC2 to be a carbon copy of BW, but they don't like SC2 in it's current form SO THEY WANT TO STICK WITH BROODWAR. Why is that so hard to understand? If you're American, then it would be like if Arena football became super popular and the NFL was just a shell of it's former self. "Damn NFL holdouts, obviously they are just living in the past and elitist, dismissing and talking shit about hockey and baseball and now that the new football league is out they talk shit about that...it's just pride, man, not that fact that they think its better."
Please take your self-righteous crap someplace else.
P.S. Broodwar is the pinnacle of the RTS genre, please provide any information regarding another RTS game that has 1) Even been considered an esport, 2) been played for the past 14 years, and 3) Has anywhere near the infrastructure and money pumped into it from third parties.
I agree with LegaSee post and I think this is the best post in the thread with optical shot interview.
On April 20 2012 22:28 blubbdavid wrote: That's it for me.
Oh come on, it's for e-sports man we should support them bw pro's going to sc2 as you can see even the coaches were having a blast talking about sc2 . I mean I don't mind seeing history repeat itself when this guy dominate the scene and the foreign scene will know where their standing is again after all . Korean dominance sound pretty sweet in my opinion.
k, but only if I get monthly packages of Redbull so that I stay awake during the games.
On April 20 2012 22:28 blubbdavid wrote: That's it for me.
Oh come on, it's for e-sports man we should support them bw pro's going to sc2 as you can see even the coaches were having a blast talking about sc2 . I mean I don't mind seeing history repeat itself when this guy dominate the scene and the foreign scene will know where their standing is again after all . Korean dominance sound pretty sweet in my opinion.
k, but only if I get monthly packages of Redbull so that I stay awake during the games.
Well... I cant help but be excited for this. I feel like this will be really good, once the dust settles and everyone realises that the awesome BW personalities arent gonna go away, just beacause they switch from sc1 to sc2... .
This has got to be one of the most ignorant posts I have ever seen
..And this is how every argument on the internet always starts, with absolute, 100% hyperbole. Why merely "one of the most" why not the WORST POST ever? Then you are really hitting it out in the ballpark?
If that is one of the most ignorant posts you've ever read, then its either your first few days on the internet or you are lying. Considering when your registered your account you are lying, i make a point out of this because it shows whats to come:
...do YOU know anything about what Starcraft was like when it was called warcraft in space? Doesn't sound like it, because it WAS WARCRAFT IN SPACE!
I love how you assume that it's some little gem that you've somehow learned and BW fans don't and actually prove just how ill-informed you really are.
Take note of how LEGAsee argues here, because this is a preview of every argument he attempts to make: his only tactic is to put words into someone else's mouth. I never claimed i discovered the gem, millions of people were there as the game sold millions. But it was there when the original game came out. You werent. That does not make me better than you, but it gives me a insight into this game that you do not have. The game didnt not begin in Korea. You first came to it once you saw the flashy studio colors of korean broadcasts, the fancy jackets and the fast talking commentators.
I know what it was, and i wasent talking about the alpha stage of the game, the actual Starcraft game you know and worship is the exact same game that was said to just be "warcraft in space", it was Warcraft with a Aliens paint job. This game was looked at the same way Black Ops is to Modern Warfare 2, that it was only different to Warcraft 2 on the surface, yet the core was the same. How wrong they were. Just like BW and SC2.
That is what the games haters were saying, the same vocal minority was spewing hate at the game acting all defensive and refused to accept it for what it was. Do you even know what the major argument against SC was? That you could never balance a competitive RTS game with 3 different races. This was said by the very same people who played a game that actually was never balanced, Warcraft 2.
Do you even know what Total Annihilation is? Im sure you will google it up, but that was Starcraft's major competitor. The same arguments used against this game are the ones used against SC2.
My point is that most people here werent really there from the beginning, yet they are acting as if they own the whole genre and this entire website. They jumped on the horses back when it became popular, exact same way SC2 fans have done with SC2. And that it just fine, but to berate them, while acting as if you were a part of something special and unique without knowing the real story makes you look very ignorant.
Do you know of a game called Warcraft 2? Do you know that it also had a very competitive scene? You never actually argued any of that, its like that game never existed for some Brood War fans.
There wasn't anything in that version of the game that remotely resembled what Broodwar is today. Not.A.Damn.Thing. Thank god people spoke up and and the backlash got blizzard to actually completely redesign the game engine.
Why are you even arguing this point, has anyone ever even hinted at wanting the game to more like the alpha version? I surely didnt and i dont see anyone else doing the same
And no shit we started watching it after it got big in korea, this is a foreigner site, how else were we going to watch it? The internet was still dial-up and there were no VODS, anyway. The best the community got was a recap of someone who was there.
I like the "no shit man" attitude, but you are still ignoring the fact that you started following the game when it became a hit to watch, exactly like SC2 fans.
and LOL at you thinking people sit around the Broodwar forum and talk shit about other games...really?
Yes really, have you actually browsed this forum or any of the topics? Finding a thread that dosent shit on SC2 is not easy. Even the supposed light hearted topics like Unimpressed Flash Meme is all about hating on a game. How can you even ask a question like "we dont talk shit about no other games" and then you look at the forum and its infested with it. People are more obsessed with that than anything else BW related.
FYI this website was THE Broodwar community, and only a broodwar community before the SC2 influx came in.
And? No seriously, and what? Does it give your certain rights here? Did i ever say Teamliquid was a Warcraft 2 site or a cookie baking site?
Naturally anyone here before that may feel that this is THEIRS. It was.
Ah so its yours, and when you says "yours" you mean BW fans site, you own it? And these SC2 people should hold you in higher regard? Can you be any more condescending? This site is owned by a select group of people who have a interest in competitive RTS games, specifically Blizzard ones. It started off as only a BW site but that does not mean that people who own TL are somehow obliged to that for the rest of their lives. They can do as they please.
Most Broodwar players don't want SC2 to be a carbon copy of BW, but they don't like SC2 in it's current form SO THEY WANT TO STICK WITH BROODWAR. Why is that so hard to understand?
Its easy to understand, stick with what you like. But sticking with the game you enjoy is not the same as being a hateful, condescending elitist. Now is that hard to understand?
Please take your self-righteous crap someplace else.
I aint taking nothing, nowhere. You do not own this site, nor command anything, get over yourself. Ironic that you call me self righteous yet you start barking orders in the exact same sentence as if you were someone. But you see i wont stoop down to your level.
P.S. Broodwar is the pinnacle of the RTS genre, please provide any information regarding another RTS game that has 1) Even been considered an esport, 2) been played for the past 14 years, and 3) Has anywhere near the infrastructure and money pumped into it from third parties.
Here you go again, nobody ever said Brood War wasent and still isent theabsolute best RTS game out there, its my favorite videogame of all time. You are trying to turn this into a argument you think you can win, when you are attempting to dodge the actual point.
You simply have one way to argue and that is to conjure up arguments that the other person never made, you also seem very tense and irate showcasing that my supposed self righteous crap really hit a nerve with you, because if it truly was "crap" it would not have provoked such a strong reaction. But forget all that, you seem incapable to look at the point being made: Starcraft, the game you think is made of perfection, rainbows and roses, was a game that was also hated by a vocal minority, who argued just like you are now.
These people werent simply trying the game, deciding on not liking it and going on with their lives. They spent ample time trashing it and its playerbase any chance they got. They were wrong that it was just Warcraft in Space, they were wrong that the game couldnt be balanced, the irony is that BW ended up being far more balanced than War2 and War3 ever got and that Total Annihilation could not carry this game's jockstrap at the end of the day.
SC didnt need that vocal minority, just like SC2 does not need it here.
EPT
. Ksharp and friends it has been a long time ... 
![[image loading]](http://www.nerdnexus.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/starcraft_alpha.png)
