On April 27 2012 14:31 Sawamura wrote: @ poster above cs go is in it's beta phase what has nostalgia got to do hitting you like a truck huh ?
It's de_dust 3 man latest map on cs go .
I think he means nostalgia just hit him in the head like an AWP round.
I too have kind of gravitated towards GO as I become increasingly bored with SC2 and all the lost opportunities. Frankly, I don't give a crap about esports if I don't LOVE the sport being played. Kobe Bryant doesn't have the same passion for golf that he has for basketball, and he never will. It is the game itself that instills love and creates followings that last.
Some of the coaches consider it partly the korean bw scene's fault that it's come to this. I just hope whatever comes after sc2 will be more like bw. Maybe by then blizzard and kespa will have both learned enough hard lessons to do it right from the ground up.
Blizzard should just get all the TBLS together to have a conference on how to make the game better. Oh better yet, fire that Dustin Browder guy and then get the TBLS as the lead designers and the rest of the A-teamers be the testers!
The TBLS have made major mistakes in different eras of their play too, not to mention the meta gaming is dependent vastly on the maps and map making even more so than just units once the game stabilizes enough. There's still 2 expansions to SC2, too early.
Dude regardless of their playing ability, their notion of gameplay as professional gamers are much more enhanced than the ones of an average Joe. They full comprehend how to design a game that is suitable to carry the torch of Electronic Sports.
Seriously would anyone rather a group of knowledgeable guys who themselves have experienced and understand the ins and out of the undisputable most competive RTS game ever created in the history of mankind. Or would you want to have someone like Dustin Browder who took away the single most important component of making a viable gaming model, the LAN support.
Problem is regardless of how much knowledge the players may have, they have reporter's bias, what you should be asking is for the coaching staff of KT / SKT / Khan (lol) etc to be doing balancing. Regardless of how good a player is you should never ask him to be the referee of the game while he is still a professional player, let alone change the rules. Even if the players are perfectly unbiased in the game design changes, it's still knowledge as well as pressure that compromises the integrity of the games that he's involved in. At best you should be asking retired players like iloveoov to give their opinions.
Cs 1.6 and source professional players are giving their feed back to cs go and that to me is excellent because they involve the community in the development of the game . Unlike Dustin bowder and friend .... when sen ask for improvement he blatantly just face palm sen with " Don't like sc2 , Go play BW " . Thank god I will be going back to counter strike scene when cs go is released . Ksharp and friends it has been a long time ...
Check out the recoil while you are at it .
Why did the pros want the recoil being less? Doesn't that make the game easier?
On April 27 2012 14:46 0neder wrote: thank you SO MUCH for bringing up the CS:GO example. I just found out about that a week ago, and already the dev team has implemented some requested changes. The developers are working DIRECTLY with PROS to change thinks WEEKLY. What the hell is taking Browder so long to figure out how to improve SC2? The answer is not abduct, or replicate, I'll tell you that.
Can we make illustrative videos like the CS ones to present to Browder? Clearly he doesn't quite get the full picture.
IDEAS: Vulture Moving shot harass near workers while being chased Mutalisk Moving shot micro Zealot mine dragging Carrier micro over a chasm Marines dodging lurkers Reaver Drop killing everything Reaver drop doing nothing Arbiters stasis Tanks killing tier 1 units with no hp Games that reward teching and macro over all-ins
Any more quick concise vid ideas?
I don't think at this point blizzard cares if they can win over what's left of the brood war crowd. the vast majority of people went to SC2 despite the flaws for other reasons (more competition, better foreign scene, easier to play, etc). they've just fine financially for almost 2 years now. no reason to add in game-changers that would probably put off more players than bring in new BW fans.
Only if large amounts of SC2 players and pros stop playing the game or complain a bunch will blizzard think about adding in any changes that us BW fans would actually care about, and I doubt that will ever happen :\
On April 27 2012 14:46 0neder wrote: thank you SO MUCH for bringing up the CS:GO example. I just found out about that a week ago, and already the dev team has implemented some requested changes. The developers are working DIRECTLY with PROS to change thinks WEEKLY. What the hell is taking Browder so long to figure out how to improve SC2? The answer is not abduct, or replicate, I'll tell you that.
Can we make illustrative videos like the CS ones to present to Browder? Clearly he doesn't quite get the full picture.
IDEAS: Vulture Moving shot harass near workers while being chased Mutalisk Moving shot micro Zealot mine dragging Carrier micro over a chasm Marines dodging lurkers Reaver Drop killing everything Reaver drop doing nothing Arbiters stasis Tanks killing tier 1 units with no hp Games that reward teching and macro over all-ins
Any more quick concise vid ideas?
I don't think at this point blizzard cares if they can win over what's left of the brood war crowd. the vast majority of people went to SC2 despite the flaws for other reasons (more competition, better foreign scene, easier to play, etc). they've just fine financially for almost 2 years now. no reason to add in game-changers that would probably put off more players than bring in new BW fans.
Only if large amounts of SC2 players and pros stop playing the game or complain a bunch will blizzard think about adding in any changes that us BW fans would actually care about, and I doubt that will ever happen :\
Very, very true.
Also, SC2 needs to fight much more modern strategies, like Supreme comander, C&C, ex, which have vastly larger auditory than SC:BW anyway, oh and it(SC2) doesn`t even have some great features, like global zoom(you can zoom out and see map on entire screen with units and building replaced with symbols), ability to cycle building que, ex, ex, Not to mention, "modern" RTS tend to be more about player strategy&game plan, not about fighting with the interface faster than your opponent(or sometimes called execution), (just compare SC2 strategies, to fairly straight-forward SC:BW(TvP, teran always Vultures-tanks, Protos draguns-arbiters, PvZ either Corsair->DT or Zelot-archon against muta-lurker, TvZ Marine-Tank vs Muta-Zerling-Lurkers) ) Compare "Pro" matches where "Pro" may never scout(+1 atack speed zelot push is not scouting) because he knows the matchup anyway( Bisu vs Jaedong) in SC:BW, to SC2 where pro can fall to just decent player who executed All-in properly, and "pro" didn`t bother(or couldn`t) to scout it, which is a obviously mistake or plain incompetence of "pro".
Which is not a bad thing, but some people think otherwise.
On April 27 2012 14:46 0neder wrote: thank you SO MUCH for bringing up the CS:GO example. I just found out about that a week ago, and already the dev team has implemented some requested changes. The developers are working DIRECTLY with PROS to change thinks WEEKLY. What the hell is taking Browder so long to figure out how to improve SC2? The answer is not abduct, or replicate, I'll tell you that.
Can we make illustrative videos like the CS ones to present to Browder? Clearly he doesn't quite get the full picture.
IDEAS: Vulture Moving shot harass near workers while being chased Mutalisk Moving shot micro Zealot mine dragging Carrier micro over a chasm Marines dodging lurkers Reaver Drop killing everything Reaver drop doing nothing Arbiters stasis Tanks killing tier 1 units with no hp Games that reward teching and macro over all-ins
Any more quick concise vid ideas?
I don't think at this point blizzard cares if they can win over what's left of the brood war crowd. the vast majority of people went to SC2 despite the flaws for other reasons (more competition, better foreign scene, easier to play, etc). they've just fine financially for almost 2 years now. no reason to add in game-changers that would probably put off more players than bring in new BW fans.
Only if large amounts of SC2 players and pros stop playing the game or complain a bunch will blizzard think about adding in any changes that us BW fans would actually care about, and I doubt that will ever happen :\
Very, very true.
Also, SC2 needs to fight much more modern strategies, like Supreme comander, C&C, ex, which have vastly larger auditory than SC:BW anyway, oh and it(SC2) doesn`t even have some great features, like global zoom(you can zoom out and see map on entire screen with units and building replaced with symbols), ability to cycle building que, ex, ex, Not to mention, "modern" RTS tend to be more about player strategy&game plan, not about fighting with the interface faster than your opponent(or sometimes called execution), (just compare SC2 strategies, to fairly straight-forward SC:BW(TvP, teran always Vultures-tanks, Protos draguns-arbiters, PvZ either Corsair->DT or Zelot-archon against muta-lurker, TvZ Marine-Tank vs Muta-Zerling-Lurkers) ) Compare "Pro" matches where "Pro" may never scout(+1 atack speed zelot push is not scouting) because he knows the matchup anyway( Bisu vs Jaedong) in SC:BW, to SC2 where pro can fall to just decent player who executed All-in properly, and "pro" didn`t bother(or couldn`t) to scout it, which is a obviously mistake or plain incompetence of "pro".
Which is not a bad thing, but some people think otherwise.
Don't know if i'm interpreting you correctly but a spinning forge is not the only was to 'scout' +1speedzeals.
On April 27 2012 14:46 0neder wrote: thank you SO MUCH for bringing up the CS:GO example. I just found out about that a week ago, and already the dev team has implemented some requested changes. The developers are working DIRECTLY with PROS to change thinks WEEKLY. What the hell is taking Browder so long to figure out how to improve SC2? The answer is not abduct, or replicate, I'll tell you that.
Can we make illustrative videos like the CS ones to present to Browder? Clearly he doesn't quite get the full picture.
IDEAS: Vulture Moving shot harass near workers while being chased Mutalisk Moving shot micro Zealot mine dragging Carrier micro over a chasm Marines dodging lurkers Reaver Drop killing everything Reaver drop doing nothing Arbiters stasis Tanks killing tier 1 units with no hp Games that reward teching and macro over all-ins
Any more quick concise vid ideas?
I don't think at this point blizzard cares if they can win over what's left of the brood war crowd. the vast majority of people went to SC2 despite the flaws for other reasons (more competition, better foreign scene, easier to play, etc). they've just fine financially for almost 2 years now. no reason to add in game-changers that would probably put off more players than bring in new BW fans.
Only if large amounts of SC2 players and pros stop playing the game or complain a bunch will blizzard think about adding in any changes that us BW fans would actually care about, and I doubt that will ever happen :\
Very, very true.
Also, SC2 needs to fight much more modern strategies, like Supreme comander, C&C, ex, which have vastly larger auditory than SC:BW anyway, oh and it(SC2) doesn`t even have some great features, like global zoom(you can zoom out and see map on entire screen with units and building replaced with symbols), ability to cycle building que, ex, ex, Not to mention, "modern" RTS tend to be more about player strategy&game plan, not about fighting with the interface faster than your opponent(or sometimes called execution), (just compare SC2 strategies, to fairly straight-forward SC:BW(TvP, teran always Vultures-tanks, Protos draguns-arbiters, PvZ either Corsair->DT or Zelot-archon against muta-lurker, TvZ Marine-Tank vs Muta-Zerling-Lurkers) ) Compare "Pro" matches where "Pro" may never scout(+1 atack speed zelot push is not scouting) because he knows the matchup anyway( Bisu vs Jaedong) in SC:BW, to SC2 where pro can fall to just decent player who executed All-in properly, and "pro" didn`t bother(or couldn`t) to scout it, which is a obviously mistake or plain incompetence of "pro".
Which is not a bad thing, but some people think otherwise.
Don't know if i'm interpreting you correctly but a spinning forge is not the only was to 'scout' +1speedzeals.
I think he may be implying that a Protoss facing a Zerg and intending to push with +1 ground weapons and Zealots upgraded with leg speed... doesn't need to scout... if they know the matchup...
wait what the fuck? If that's what's being implied it's patently false.
Some of the coaches consider it partly the korean bw scene's fault that it's come to this. I just hope whatever comes after sc2 will be more like bw. Maybe by then blizzard and kespa will have both learned enough hard lessons to do it right from the ground up.
Blizzard should just get all the TBLS together to have a conference on how to make the game better. Oh better yet, fire that Dustin Browder guy and then get the TBLS as the lead designers and the rest of the A-teamers be the testers!
The TBLS have made major mistakes in different eras of their play too, not to mention the meta gaming is dependent vastly on the maps and map making even more so than just units once the game stabilizes enough. There's still 2 expansions to SC2, too early.
Dude regardless of their playing ability, their notion of gameplay as professional gamers are much more enhanced than the ones of an average Joe. They full comprehend how to design a game that is suitable to carry the torch of Electronic Sports.
Seriously would anyone rather a group of knowledgeable guys who themselves have experienced and understand the ins and out of the undisputable most competive RTS game ever created in the history of mankind. Or would you want to have someone like Dustin Browder who took away the single most important component of making a viable gaming model, the LAN support.
Problem is regardless of how much knowledge the players may have, they have reporter's bias, what you should be asking is for the coaching staff of KT / SKT / Khan (lol) etc to be doing balancing. Regardless of how good a player is you should never ask him to be the referee of the game while he is still a professional player, let alone change the rules. Even if the players are perfectly unbiased in the game design changes, it's still knowledge as well as pressure that compromises the integrity of the games that he's involved in. At best you should be asking retired players like iloveoov to give their opinions.
Cs 1.6 and source professional players are giving their feed back to cs go and that to me is excellent because they involve the community in the development of the game . Unlike Dustin bowder and friend .... when sen ask for improvement he blatantly just face palm sen with " Don't like sc2 , Go play BW " . Thank god I will be going back to counter strike scene when cs go is released . Ksharp and friends it has been a long time ...
On April 27 2012 20:18 nokz88 wrote: I came here if the comments from the coaches would sway some fans, but I'm sad that I was terribly wrong
People are busy still discussing whether a game is better or worse and spilling their hate all over
To be honest, i wouldn't give a damn if the vocal minority that's actively debating better or worse are swayed, because those people are usually not an asset to any community anyway.
On April 27 2012 20:18 nokz88 wrote: I came here if the comments from the coaches would sway some fans, but I'm sad that I was terribly wrong
People are busy still discussing whether a game is better or worse and spilling their hate all over
It certainly swayed me =) I mean, I already knew that the teams worked exceptionally hard to deliver us (the fans) the amazing content we enjoy and take for granted, but after reading through this one it really hit me that they've already accepted the reality and they need our support to move forward.
As it was said in the article, the coaches at the least are looking forward to an exciting new season, and they've vowed not to repeat the mistakes of the past. Plus, they seem to think TL is the #1 foreign fan site (which is true!!) and mentioned us a lot, so we know that our voices (or at least the number of the replies in BW hype threads) are being heard!
On April 27 2012 14:46 0neder wrote: thank you SO MUCH for bringing up the CS:GO example. I just found out about that a week ago, and already the dev team has implemented some requested changes. The developers are working DIRECTLY with PROS to change thinks WEEKLY. What the hell is taking Browder so long to figure out how to improve SC2? The answer is not abduct, or replicate, I'll tell you that.
Can we make illustrative videos like the CS ones to present to Browder? Clearly he doesn't quite get the full picture.
IDEAS: Vulture Moving shot harass near workers while being chased Mutalisk Moving shot micro Zealot mine dragging Carrier micro over a chasm Marines dodging lurkers Reaver Drop killing everything Reaver drop doing nothing Arbiters stasis Tanks killing tier 1 units with no hp Games that reward teching and macro over all-ins
Any more quick concise vid ideas?
I don't think at this point blizzard cares if they can win over what's left of the brood war crowd. the vast majority of people went to SC2 despite the flaws for other reasons (more competition, better foreign scene, easier to play, etc). they've just fine financially for almost 2 years now. no reason to add in game-changers that would probably put off more players than bring in new BW fans.
Only if large amounts of SC2 players and pros stop playing the game or complain a bunch will blizzard think about adding in any changes that us BW fans would actually care about, and I doubt that will ever happen :\
Very, very true.
Also, SC2 needs to fight much more modern strategies, like Supreme comander, C&C, ex, which have vastly larger auditory than SC:BW anyway, oh and it(SC2) doesn`t even have some great features, like global zoom(you can zoom out and see map on entire screen with units and building replaced with symbols), ability to cycle building que, ex, ex, Not to mention, "modern" RTS tend to be more about player strategy&game plan, not about fighting with the interface faster than your opponent(or sometimes called execution), (just compare SC2 strategies, to fairly straight-forward SC:BW(TvP, teran always Vultures-tanks, Protos draguns-arbiters, PvZ either Corsair->DT or Zelot-archon against muta-lurker, TvZ Marine-Tank vs Muta-Zerling-Lurkers) ) Compare "Pro" matches where "Pro" may never scout(+1 atack speed zelot push is not scouting) because he knows the matchup anyway( Bisu vs Jaedong) in SC:BW, to SC2 where pro can fall to just decent player who executed All-in properly, and "pro" didn`t bother(or couldn`t) to scout it, which is a obviously mistake or plain incompetence of "pro".
Which is not a bad thing, but some people think otherwise.
Don't know if i'm interpreting you correctly but a spinning forge is not the only was to 'scout' +1speedzeals.
I think he may be implying that a Protoss facing a Zerg and intending to push with +1 ground weapons and Zealots upgraded with leg speed... doesn't need to scout... if they know the matchup...
wait what the fuck? If that's what's being implied it's patently false.
Yeah...what? Please refrain from speaking about that which you do not know.
On April 27 2012 20:18 nokz88 wrote: I came here if the comments from the coaches would sway some fans, but I'm sad that I was terribly wrong
People are busy still discussing whether a game is better or worse and spilling their hate all over
To be honest, i wouldn't give a damn if the vocal minority that's actively debating better or worse are swayed, because those people are usually not an asset to any community anyway.
What makes you think its a minority? What is wrong with debating better or worse? Why would people using critical thinking skills and discussing the pros and cons of a switch to a different game be bad for the community? I look forward to your silent acceptance during the transition from SC2 to whatever game replaces it.
On April 26 2012 01:17 wassbix wrote: *flashback of reaver instafiring from shuttle unload* As a toss player those were good times.
Guys, guys, we don't want bronze leaguers looking at their base and finding all their workers gone. So we're going to remove all fast harass/imba splash units from the game. Too bad those types of units were the key to success and excitement in BW.
Storm drops still do that easily. There is plenty of drop play thats viable. Come on. I'm all for BW but at least get your facts straight dude. Not helping the BW fan image.
Well. Sorta. What does it take 3 or 4 storms to do what BW does in 1 or 2? It's there, but in a less interesting form due to unit clumping and smart casting.
Although storm isnt the same.. Protoss can drop the HT's in your main, followed by landing their prism((because their transport also serves as a pylon, just without adding supply)) and warping in an attack force.. Yes their storm is weaker, but i think they have ways to make up for it.
In BW it's 8 volleys of 14 damage (112 total) over 7 seconds (1 tick right when it's casted then another tick every second). In SC2 it's 80 damage over 4 seconds (10 every 1/2 second). So damage wise. BW:---14-----14--------28--------28--------42--------42--------56--------56---------70----------------84----------------98----------------112 SC2:---0------10--------20--------30--------40--------50--------60--------70---------80 Time:--0------0.5--------1--------1.5--------2---------2.5--------3----------3.5---------4---------------- 5------------------6-----------------7 In BW though it's possible to cover the entire area of workers mining a typical 8 minerals patch with 2 storms and be sure to kill them all if the opponent doesn't move them. In SC2 you would need at least 3 and since it's much easier to move workers / units out of them due to improved AI and pathing it's not used nearly as much. In BW overlapping storms you can kill any ground unit that isn't an archon or ultralisk in 2 casts, and most light ground units in 1 cast (hydralisks / zerglings and workers being the most significant)
BW storms are 8 ticks of 14 damage (112 total) and the duration is 4 seconds I believe and SC2 is 80 over 4 seconds.
On April 27 2012 20:18 nokz88 wrote: I came here if the comments from the coaches would sway some fans, but I'm sad that I was terribly wrong
People are busy still discussing whether a game is better or worse and spilling their hate all over
To be honest, i wouldn't give a damn if the vocal minority that's actively debating better or worse are swayed, because those people are usually not an asset to any community anyway.
Well, considering your post count, you're also one of those vocal people who need to get eliminated. Except if majority of your posts is spam.
Some of the coaches consider it partly the korean bw scene's fault that it's come to this. I just hope whatever comes after sc2 will be more like bw. Maybe by then blizzard and kespa will have both learned enough hard lessons to do it right from the ground up.
Blizzard should just get all the TBLS together to have a conference on how to make the game better. Oh better yet, fire that Dustin Browder guy and then get the TBLS as the lead designers and the rest of the A-teamers be the testers!
The TBLS have made major mistakes in different eras of their play too, not to mention the meta gaming is dependent vastly on the maps and map making even more so than just units once the game stabilizes enough. There's still 2 expansions to SC2, too early.
Dude regardless of their playing ability, their notion of gameplay as professional gamers are much more enhanced than the ones of an average Joe. They full comprehend how to design a game that is suitable to carry the torch of Electronic Sports.
Seriously would anyone rather a group of knowledgeable guys who themselves have experienced and understand the ins and out of the undisputable most competive RTS game ever created in the history of mankind. Or would you want to have someone like Dustin Browder who took away the single most important component of making a viable gaming model, the LAN support.
Problem is regardless of how much knowledge the players may have, they have reporter's bias, what you should be asking is for the coaching staff of KT / SKT / Khan (lol) etc to be doing balancing. Regardless of how good a player is you should never ask him to be the referee of the game while he is still a professional player, let alone change the rules. Even if the players are perfectly unbiased in the game design changes, it's still knowledge as well as pressure that compromises the integrity of the games that he's involved in. At best you should be asking retired players like iloveoov to give their opinions.
Cs 1.6 and source professional players are giving their feed back to cs go and that to me is excellent because they involve the community in the development of the game . Unlike Dustin bowder and friend .... when sen ask for improvement he blatantly just face palm sen with " Don't like sc2 , Go play BW " . Thank god I will be going back to counter strike scene when cs go is released . Ksharp and friends it has been a long time ...
Some of the coaches consider it partly the korean bw scene's fault that it's come to this. I just hope whatever comes after sc2 will be more like bw. Maybe by then blizzard and kespa will have both learned enough hard lessons to do it right from the ground up.
Blizzard should just get all the TBLS together to have a conference on how to make the game better. Oh better yet, fire that Dustin Browder guy and then get the TBLS as the lead designers and the rest of the A-teamers be the testers!
The TBLS have made major mistakes in different eras of their play too, not to mention the meta gaming is dependent vastly on the maps and map making even more so than just units once the game stabilizes enough. There's still 2 expansions to SC2, too early.
Dude regardless of their playing ability, their notion of gameplay as professional gamers are much more enhanced than the ones of an average Joe. They full comprehend how to design a game that is suitable to carry the torch of Electronic Sports.
Seriously would anyone rather a group of knowledgeable guys who themselves have experienced and understand the ins and out of the undisputable most competive RTS game ever created in the history of mankind. Or would you want to have someone like Dustin Browder who took away the single most important component of making a viable gaming model, the LAN support.
Problem is regardless of how much knowledge the players may have, they have reporter's bias, what you should be asking is for the coaching staff of KT / SKT / Khan (lol) etc to be doing balancing. Regardless of how good a player is you should never ask him to be the referee of the game while he is still a professional player, let alone change the rules. Even if the players are perfectly unbiased in the game design changes, it's still knowledge as well as pressure that compromises the integrity of the games that he's involved in. At best you should be asking retired players like iloveoov to give their opinions.
Cs 1.6 and source professional players are giving their feed back to cs go and that to me is excellent because they involve the community in the development of the game . Unlike Dustin bowder and friend .... when sen ask for improvement he blatantly just face palm sen with " Don't like sc2 , Go play BW " . Thank god I will be going back to counter strike scene when cs go is released . Ksharp and friends it has been a long time ...
On April 27 2012 20:18 nokz88 wrote: I came here if the comments from the coaches would sway some fans, but I'm sad that I was terribly wrong
People are busy still discussing whether a game is better or worse and spilling their hate all over
To be honest, i wouldn't give a damn if the vocal minority that's actively debating better or worse are swayed, because those people are usually not an asset to any community anyway.
This is the best post on the BW forums for a long long damn long time.
When Starcraft first came out, there was a vocal minority saying it was just "Warcraft in space", goofy looking, Aliens ripoff, Warhammer 2k ripoff, generic, nothing new, not as good as Warcraft 2. Command and Conquer fans said it sucked, Total Annihilation fans said it sucked and that TA was a far superior game, and there were plenty of Warcraft 2 players who refused to even accept it (sounds similar?) The original Starcraft had a hellish development cycle, the worst of any Blizzard game bar Starcraft Ghost and Warcraft Adventures: Lord of the Clans. It was mere luck that the game ever came out.
Of course most Brood War "fans" dont know anything about that, because most started watching after it got big in Korea. Yet think they were there from beginning and that they have some divine right and privilege to disregard any and all competitive RTS games.
Its just like the Counter Strike fans who crap all over any and all current FPS games, proclaiming their own to be some sort of messiah and pinnacle of the genre, yet they totally disregard the competitive scene that Doom, Quake 1, 2 and Unreal had before hand. They dont even know who Dennis "Thresh" Fong is, nor what "The Edge" means in regarding to Quake 2 and its own scene.
The desire to have your own little exclusive community, where you can trash other similar games to somehow validate your the one you follow seems to be much stronger than the desire to be more open minded regarding esports as a whole and be open to new ideas and games.
Its never really about the games, but more often than not, it is the us vs. them mentality. Most hardcore/competitive gamers of any genre do not posses the ability to turn that competitiveness off at times, so everything has to be turned into that, its about pride more than anything else.
Some of the coaches consider it partly the korean bw scene's fault that it's come to this. I just hope whatever comes after sc2 will be more like bw. Maybe by then blizzard and kespa will have both learned enough hard lessons to do it right from the ground up.
Blizzard should just get all the TBLS together to have a conference on how to make the game better. Oh better yet, fire that Dustin Browder guy and then get the TBLS as the lead designers and the rest of the A-teamers be the testers!
The TBLS have made major mistakes in different eras of their play too, not to mention the meta gaming is dependent vastly on the maps and map making even more so than just units once the game stabilizes enough. There's still 2 expansions to SC2, too early.
Dude regardless of their playing ability, their notion of gameplay as professional gamers are much more enhanced than the ones of an average Joe. They full comprehend how to design a game that is suitable to carry the torch of Electronic Sports.
Seriously would anyone rather a group of knowledgeable guys who themselves have experienced and understand the ins and out of the undisputable most competive RTS game ever created in the history of mankind. Or would you want to have someone like Dustin Browder who took away the single most important component of making a viable gaming model, the LAN support.
Problem is regardless of how much knowledge the players may have, they have reporter's bias, what you should be asking is for the coaching staff of KT / SKT / Khan (lol) etc to be doing balancing. Regardless of how good a player is you should never ask him to be the referee of the game while he is still a professional player, let alone change the rules. Even if the players are perfectly unbiased in the game design changes, it's still knowledge as well as pressure that compromises the integrity of the games that he's involved in. At best you should be asking retired players like iloveoov to give their opinions.
Cs 1.6 and source professional players are giving their feed back to cs go and that to me is excellent because they involve the community in the development of the game . Unlike Dustin bowder and friend .... when sen ask for improvement he blatantly just face palm sen with " Don't like sc2 , Go play BW " . Thank god I will be going back to counter strike scene when cs go is released . Ksharp and friends it has been a long time ...
Why did the pros want the recoil being less? Doesn't that make the game easier?
Afaik!
More Recoil = More Random = Bad.
CS 1.6 pros (and all 1.6 players) just want 1.6 recoil and movement in CS:GO.
Because they want a carbon copy generally, or is recoil specifically an issue (I know nothing about competitive FPS, legitimately curious)?
The recoil in 1.6 (and CSS which is the same model) is controllable when spraying if you adjust correctly. In CS:GO currently, rather than the shots grouping (which is controllable) they fire off randomly and so you you can't compensate for it correctly due to the randomness. There's videos and better descriptions in the CS:GO thread, rather than derailing this... but yeah Valve are listening to pro feedback and are implementing some changes... but NOT everything the pro's have asked for. Don't paint Valve as perfect here, they are still doing things their own way, but they are listening and adjusting based on feedback on some game play issues.
EPT
.
