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On April 21 2012 19:34 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 16:50 Lysanias wrote:
For Broodwar elitists Sc2 would never have been a succes no matter what, you can't please people who don't want a change.
If it was excactly the same as BW, they would say why bother ? We have BW.
If it is different, they say it's not as good as BW
And your done, typical human behavior tbh.
So i don't understand why they all say they looked forward to Sc2, what did you guys expect ? What would you have wanted ?
For me personaly i wanted Sc2 for the downtime when there was no Broodwar going on, i love broodwar but we don't see enough so much bloody downtime, for me Sc2 would be the game that i could watch next to Broodwar and i could be a fan of both, i never thought 1 would replace the other, still can't tbh.
You don't have to make a carbon copy of BW to capture its spirit. Just look at Armies of Exigo and ask any BW player that played it - he'll tell you that AoX captured the beauty of BW WAY better than SC2 does. Blizzard practically missed all the key ingredients that make BW so good. Getting rid of rock-paper-scissors units and replacing them with units more similar to Marines vs. Banelings, adding real highground/defender's advantage, adding positional play units, getting rid of deathballs and stupid unit clumping (and don't tell me you can prevent that with micro because that's only possible when units stay still; as soon as order some command, they all clump up; not to mention it's more beneficial to have them clumped up most of the time anyway). There are a dozen things Blizzard could do to improve SC2 while making it similar to BW. It's not a coincidence that the gameplay aspects that even SC2-only players like the best about their game are those that are similar to BW.
Meh It's time to move on maybenexttime we have been trying to tell them and D&B and co about the ways how to make the game more interesting but no they are not doing anything except making the units more E-Sports . If the unit is too powerful they will reduce it to E-Sports Quality so everyone can enjoy e-sports . I don't know the word e-sports has been abused so many time it has no meaning any more just like the word " Rule of law " .
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i almost spit out what i was drinking when i read the part about flash getting masters while sick and not knowing what the units did .... baller
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The game is still maturing, watching SC2 today, to watching it just 6-8 months ago is a night and day difference. Imagine the difference when the expansion hits.
SC (vanilla) wasent that fun to watch either, it had all sorts of issues that have long since been hidden, to present this idea that as soon as SC came out, it was perfect, 100% balanced. Thats just false.
MarineKing, MC, Nestea, DRG will represent "SC2", and its going to be fun to watch the first couple of months, where we will see where these BW pros actually stand in a new game. I have a feeling they will be slapped around for a while before any of them wins a tourney (and yes i know Zergbong is Nestea etc etc they are all almost BW players).
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BW was "completed" in 2001, three years after release. So are we allowed to whine about SC2 in on year, at it's third anniversary, or do we need to wait even longer?
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United Kingdom1704 Posts
After reading the full interview, I have to respect the coaches' attitude. It seems like they genuinely want BW to be maintained on some level, and are doing their best in the circumstances. I hope we can all work together for that. Maybe even we as a community could work more on building bridges with the Korean amateurs- as they said, arrogance and hesitation is the most damaging thing of all, to BW.
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Japan11286 Posts
My problem with this integration is not that I hate sc2 (it looks stale to me though) but it may and probably already have reduced game quality (refer to Bogus' interview). For me, the reason I watch BW is I get to see pros doing stuff I can't and do a hell of a good job at that. With lowering of game quality, I have no reason to praise BW's deep gameplay.
I'm out.
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Basically I love the STX coaching staff with all my heart at this point, because they actually seem to get the importance of globalization and monetization in ways the other coaches only gloss over.
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On April 21 2012 22:57 Tyree wrote:
The game is still maturing, watching SC2 today, to watching it just 6-8 months ago is a night and day difference. Imagine the difference when the expansion hits.
SC (vanilla) wasent that fun to watch either, it had all sorts of issues that have long since been hidden, to present this idea that as soon as SC came out, it was perfect, 100% balanced. Thats just false.
MarineKing, MC, Nestea, DRG will represent "SC2", and its going to be fun to watch the first couple of months, where we will see where these BW pros actually stand in a new game. I have a feeling they will be slapped around for a while before any of them wins a tourney (and yes i know Zergbong is Nestea etc etc they are all almost BW players).
They won't compete against the current SC2 scene for a while.
On April 21 2012 23:03 blubbdavid wrote:
BW was "completed" in 2001, three years after release. So are we allowed to whine about SC2 in on year, at it's third anniversary, or do we need to wait even longer?
My guess would be that we would have to wait like 4-5 years maybe? Wait for HotS, let's say minimum 1 year from now. Then HotS gotta settle in when it comes to balance and then gameplay. And then you have to do all this over again for LotV till you have the balance so Blizzard stop balance patching, and from there the players will have to figure out the game and create a "metagame" that is to stay (never gonna happen).
This is why I'm not so pumped for Sc2. Waiting for the "final product" for so long is not fun, and it's not fun to play WoL and then HotS where you have to go thru all the balancing again and everything you have trained in WoL and HotS (builds, timings etc) won't matter later anyway because you will be playing a new game anyway you know. All this gotta suck for progamers too. :3
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On April 21 2012 22:57 Tyree wrote:
The game is still maturing, watching SC2 today, to watching it just 6-8 months ago is a night and day difference. Imagine the difference when the expansion hits.
SC (vanilla) wasent that fun to watch either, it had all sorts of issues that have long since been hidden, to present this idea that as soon as SC came out, it was perfect, 100% balanced. Thats just false.
MarineKing, MC, Nestea, DRG will represent "SC2", and its going to be fun to watch the first couple of months, where we will see where these BW pros actually stand in a new game. I have a feeling they will be slapped around for a while before any of them wins a tourney (and yes i know Zergbong is Nestea etc etc they are all almost BW players).
Implying there was pro SC vanilla to watch lol
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On April 22 2012 00:29 Gosi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 22:57 Tyree wrote:
The game is still maturing, watching SC2 today, to watching it just 6-8 months ago is a night and day difference. Imagine the difference when the expansion hits.
SC (vanilla) wasent that fun to watch either, it had all sorts of issues that have long since been hidden, to present this idea that as soon as SC came out, it was perfect, 100% balanced. Thats just false.
MarineKing, MC, Nestea, DRG will represent "SC2", and its going to be fun to watch the first couple of months, where we will see where these BW pros actually stand in a new game. I have a feeling they will be slapped around for a while before any of them wins a tourney (and yes i know Zergbong is Nestea etc etc they are all almost BW players). They won't compete against the current SC2 scene for a while. Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 23:03 blubbdavid wrote:
BW was "completed" in 2001, three years after release. So are we allowed to whine about SC2 in on year, at it's third anniversary, or do we need to wait even longer? My guess would be that we would have to wait like 4-5 years maybe? Wait for HotS, let's say minimum 1 year from now. Then HotS gotta settle in when it comes to balance and then gameplay. And then you have to do all this over again for LotV till you have the balance so Blizzard stop balance patching, and from there the players will have to figure out the game and create a "metagame" that is to stay (never gonna happen). This is why I'm not so pumped for Sc2. Waiting for the "final product" for so long is not fun, and it's not fun to play WoL and then HotS where you have to go thru all the balancing again and everything you have trained in WoL and HotS (builds, timings etc) won't matter later anyway because you will be playing a new game anyway you know. All this gotta suck for progamers too. :3
I don't understand the logic of investing time and emotions to a game I find shitty with the hope that it might get better in 4-5 years. People don't owe SC2 or blizzard anything so not sure why some people think this is a reasonable stance to take, especially given that there are other things people could be doing.
At the very most I'll give Kespa a chance with their new format since they have provided almost a decade of amazing BW content, but outside that I couldnt care less for SC2 or ESPORTS.
On April 22 2012 00:40 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 22:57 Tyree wrote:
The game is still maturing, watching SC2 today, to watching it just 6-8 months ago is a night and day difference. Imagine the difference when the expansion hits.
SC (vanilla) wasent that fun to watch either, it had all sorts of issues that have long since been hidden, to present this idea that as soon as SC came out, it was perfect, 100% balanced. Thats just false.
MarineKing, MC, Nestea, DRG will represent "SC2", and its going to be fun to watch the first couple of months, where we will see where these BW pros actually stand in a new game. I have a feeling they will be slapped around for a while before any of them wins a tourney (and yes i know Zergbong is Nestea etc etc they are all almost BW players). Implying there was pro SC vanilla to watch lol
vanilla SC was the most pro zergling vs zergling practice map ever.
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I've skimmed through the thread but haven't seen any real translations from the Korean netizens. Can anyone share what their view is from all this?
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"- Lee Ji-hoon (KT Coach) 'We should be using the English version of SC2 as (current BW) fans are more familiar with the English names of units'"
YES thank you! If this was the case I would never watch an english cast again. Fungaruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!!
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On April 21 2012 23:03 blubbdavid wrote:
BW was "completed" in 2001, three years after release. So are we allowed to whine about SC2 in on year, at it's third anniversary, or do we need to wait even longer?
we're allowed to not watch it, just like how i didn't watch pro BW until 2008.
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I don't understand the argument that we should wait 4-5 years, or that "we" can make SC2 better. The expansions will only provide minor enhancements. Maps can only do so much. There's no way Blizzard is going to fix the fundamental issues with the game. The best possible scenario is that fans eventually develop a mod that provides more differentiated races and fixes the clumping and lack of defender's advantage, but that's probably not going to happen soon, and even then, it's not likely that a mod would be used for tournaments. And even a mod probably wouldn't change the fact that the game looks like blue blur.
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On April 21 2012 00:30 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 00:16 c0ldfusion wrote:On April 21 2012 00:10 Iplaythings wrote:
Atleast I'll still be at TL for LoL and Dota2
I seriously don't understand this irrational hatred towards SC2. You guys all argue about how BW is superior because of higher skill cap, easier to see what's going on, greater difficulty and yet you can watch LoL and Dota2? Wow... Many many BW veterans moved to Dota and LoL simply because it just isn't possible to enjoy SC2 when you've had BW. I myself have moved onto playing Dota. Those games stand alone at the top of their genre, whilst SC2 is this mangled version of the perfect RTS...
if you cant enjoy sc2 maybe you didint enjoy bw or rts games? because theres a ton of bw players like dimaga who really enjoys sc2 and new rts in general when everythink is new and you need to learn again
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If only the design team for SC2 don't constantly come across as complete terrible terrible idiots, all the supposed bw "elitists" (at least most of them) will embrace the change while being happy with what the progamers did for BW, and we won't be so angry and sad.
DB is behaving like a snobbish jealous girlfriend who has an edge because his assets have better graphics and is younger instead of being a respectful colleague to BW
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On April 22 2012 01:36 okum wrote:
I don't understand the argument that we should wait 4-5 years, or that "we" can make SC2 better. The expansions will only provide minor enhancements. Maps can only do so much. There's no way Blizzard is going to fix the fundamental issues with the game. The best possible scenario is that fans eventually develop a mod that provides more differentiated races and fixes the clumping and lack of defender's advantage, but that's probably not going to happen soon, and even then, it's not likely that a mod would be used for tournaments. And even a mod probably wouldn't change the fact that the game looks like blue blur.
Look. Listen. Fans matter but to be blunt if you and every other person likeminded with you are not going to support the SC2 scene then just don't. No one is going to personally care if you and others leave because it's the fans going forward that count. You love BW, i respect that, i respect the game, i respect that SC2 is not that game. What you need to respect is, SC2 is what it is right now. If you aren't prepared to stick around then go away for a few years and come back, or never come back.
The reality is that BW isn't sustainable alone anymore and why that is doesn't matter. Crying about it doesn't help. You either support the SC2 scene(Which NO ONE is forcing you to do) or you pack your bags and leave(which is what most pro BW fans seem to want to do). I don't understand why you're even arguing about why SC2 is bad or why you won't watch it anyway, it makes no sense. Just do what you want to do. You have made up your mind, so good luck in whatever you decide to watch or support going forward.
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On April 21 2012 22:35 jax1492 wrote:
i almost spit out what i was drinking when i read the part about flash getting masters while sick and not knowing what the units did .... baller
This kind of comments have to stop, seriously... How can you think that Flash doesn't know the units in starcraft 2? And btw, Master League is like "terrible league" when you talk about progaming.
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On April 22 2012 01:44 taitanik wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 00:30 ShadeR wrote:On April 21 2012 00:16 c0ldfusion wrote:On April 21 2012 00:10 Iplaythings wrote:
Atleast I'll still be at TL for LoL and Dota2
I seriously don't understand this irrational hatred towards SC2. You guys all argue about how BW is superior because of higher skill cap, easier to see what's going on, greater difficulty and yet you can watch LoL and Dota2? Wow... Many many BW veterans moved to Dota and LoL simply because it just isn't possible to enjoy SC2 when you've had BW. I myself have moved onto playing Dota. Those games stand alone at the top of their genre, whilst SC2 is this mangled version of the perfect RTS... if you cant enjoy sc2 maybe you didint enjoy bw or rts games? because theres a ton of bw players like dimaga who really enjoys sc2 and new rts in general when everythink is new and you need to learn again
yes I followed bw for almost a decade and I secretly hate rtses lol wtf is this
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On April 22 2012 01:44 taitanik wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 00:30 ShadeR wrote:On April 21 2012 00:16 c0ldfusion wrote:On April 21 2012 00:10 Iplaythings wrote:
Atleast I'll still be at TL for LoL and Dota2
I seriously don't understand this irrational hatred towards SC2. You guys all argue about how BW is superior because of higher skill cap, easier to see what's going on, greater difficulty and yet you can watch LoL and Dota2? Wow... Many many BW veterans moved to Dota and LoL simply because it just isn't possible to enjoy SC2 when you've had BW. I myself have moved onto playing Dota. Those games stand alone at the top of their genre, whilst SC2 is this mangled version of the perfect RTS... if you cant enjoy sc2 maybe you didint enjoy bw or rts games? because theres a ton of bw players like dimaga who really enjoys sc2 and new rts in general when everythink is new and you need to learn again
What kind of logic is this lol? BW elitist doesn't actually like BW and RTS... WHAAAAAAA?!?!!?!?
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