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On April 21 2012 01:53 phosphorylation wrote:
It's just tremendously sad and unnatural that sc2 will be forced onto viewers only because the sponsors want it, rather than because the players, coaches (most), or most importantly, viewers want it
It does not bode well for this initiative and esports in general.
(I am talking purely about the scene in Korea, just so I don't get misinformed comments).
i do see your point, but atleast they have a somewhat similar game to transition to. if the BW scene is declining it's atleast worth the shot i guess.
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What will be really funny is if the same thing happens where Koreans completely shutout all foreigners in sc2 and the foreign scene dies again. Then we can move back to BW.
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On April 21 2012 01:57 Dirtysocks wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 01:53 RatInPink wrote:many of my friends and people here seems supriced that the best players in the world have an easy time whit sc2, its not like the games are that different  Well there was a lot of hype about Forgg. And he is now average. I am not saying all BW pros will be like that, but this is what we know so far.
MC, MKP, MVP were very ok-ish sc:bw players aswell :D better not get at it, most people actually come from BW.
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On April 21 2012 01:53 phosphorylation wrote:
It's just tremendously sad and unnatural that sc2 will be forced onto viewers only because the sponsors want it, rather than because the players, coaches (most), or most importantly, viewers want it
It does not bode well for this initiative and esports in general.
(I am talking purely about the scene in Korea, just so I don't get misinformed comments).
Thing is... ultimately sponsors follow viewers. After all, that's the reason they're sponsoring in the first place - to reach viewers.
I think it's too early to think of this as "the death of BW". More like "sponsors are getting edgy and want to try something new, to compare it".
At the end of the day though, the viewers have the power to watch what they want to watch, and the sponsors must listen.
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On April 21 2012 01:53 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 01:50 eviltomahawk wrote:On April 21 2012 01:47 greenrose wrote:
Flash prolly 14cc'd his way to masters ^^
SC2 Turrets are pretty good compared to their BW counterparts. Perhaps that might contribute to Flash's success? Seriously, SC2 Turrets are so frightening to fly past. BW Turrets shoot rainbows and laughter. SC2 Turrets shoot pure death and horror. On April 21 2012 01:35 UTL_Unlimited wrote:Some quick notes on the translations: + Show Spoiler +1) I think a scary point got jumped across. But SKT and STX coaches mention that there are numerous players who actually JUST played SC2 during the Proleague season in hopes that they can show up on TV later on. But when the coaches can't tell the players when SC2 will be on proleague, many actually just leave and rumors of teams kicking out players begin to spread. so they're very worried about this becoming a bigger problem later on. 2) some coaches agree that SC2 seemed boring in comparison to BW.So when they have to force the players to play this game later on, they feel like players wouldn't be doing it for fun anymore = it actually will be forcing it. 3) When they had players practice SC2 and then switch back to SC1 and then back again to SC2, the players seem to have a really hard time adjusting. They say the games are completely different. Even players who switch races later on for SC2 actually say it's just too hard to adjust and so they switch back to their original SC1 race later on. 4) Coaches feel they need to make Proleague even more spectator friendly than before in order to promote SC2 when the switch occurs. They also think that while fans will either adjust or leave the scene, they feel most of them will just adjust. 5) Reason why KT coach wants the English version (since it wasn't covered), is that they want the fans to feel as accommodated as possible when the switch occurs. High templar should be called a high templar; scv as an scv. Fans will just get confused if they start calling it with the Korean names, and so this should be a big issue. 6) SKT actually had a test where they had an actual paper test with the names of the units in Korean on it and they had pictures to match the units. Results = led to hilariousness. 7) Some coaches don't want the switch = but they feel it's inevitable due to sponsor problems and such. 8) Team8 Coach wants SC1 to exist as a "Living Legend", but they feel that when the SC2 switch occurs, then it will lead to people saying later on in life, "why the hell did we play this shitty old game SC1 for so long". This is because SC1 only really existed in Korea and nowhere else. He doesn't want SC1 to be just thrown away after leaving such a mark in the community, and wants some form of existence for SC1. 9) Another coach is worried that since the industry is so young, if they just switch the game as such, the same problems that they had in the past (the mistakes and other such incidents) will simply occur AGAIN with the new game. 10) Coaches are sad that SC1 only grew in Korea. They really wanted it to grow like how SC2 is with MLG. However, they believe that a foreign community (i.e. mentioning Team Liquid) still exists for BW and they were hoping that this community will always exist. They see that while the eSports community has grown with SC2, in actuality, they feel like the Korean eSports Community has simply grown smaller due to this growth. 11) The coaches REALLY WANTED to approach the foreign scene apparently. Like no other. But because of the strong idea that 'BW is ours and proleague is ours', the coaches couldn't approach the foreign scene. They see that the foreign community is there with the comments, team liquid, and youtube videos, but they just couldn't do anything about it. (tone of regret does exist here) They were happy that the previosu finals was done globally, but still sad that it's so late. 12) In terms of 'practice', in comparison to the GSL and other SC2 tournaments, their players are just screwing around. Coaches are also worried that while they have to make SC2 'theirs', the splitting of fans is very worrisome. 13) SKT VS TEAM8 SC2 HAPPENED TROLOLOLOL. Every player was like: wtf is this new hotkey shit? and then when it came down to it, Team8 whopped ass against SKT 4:2. TROLOLOL. One good thing was that because SC2 battles are so much faster, the player's mechanics increased because they needed faster reactions. 14) coaches see that SC2 is a brand new opportunity for the lower tier players= TBLS won't be as strong in a new game,and thus, this new game is basically a reset button and whoever practices more and such will be the best. Even the older players who were going to leave / force them to quit when SC1 was going to be around now have hope to continue the game. 15) SKT's team has rumors that they have NUMEROUS GM players right now, and so will win next proleague. But SKT's coach denies it and says most of his players are diamond leaguers. I'll post more after this. Class ended I really enjoyed this summary. Keep up the good work. It really depends what bw turrets are shooting at . Is it Mutas ? than maybe it's shooting some pellets made out of plastic . If it's a shuttle than yeah you can kiss good bye to your shuttle in a matter of seconds.
That is true.
But still, SC2 Turrets are scarier. More expensive, yes, but with more health and DPS. Heck, they even have armor and range upgrades. Ridiculous. Flash would be an SC2 bonjwa in no time with the power of SC2 Turrets. 14cc into mass turrets.
Joking, of course. Though, Action actually being good at SC2 means that I should joke less lest it becomes truth again.
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On April 21 2012 01:57 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 01:53 phosphorylation wrote:
It's just tremendously sad and unnatural that sc2 will be forced onto viewers only because the sponsors want it, rather than because the players, coaches (most), or most importantly, viewers want it
It does not bode well for this initiative and esports in general.
(I am talking purely about the scene in Korea, just so I don't get misinformed comments). i do see your point, but atleast they have a somewhat similar game to transition to. if the BW scene is declining it's atleast worth the shot i guess.
I suppose, but the transition itself is completely misguided.
What they should have done is downsize the BW scene if necessary (like pre-2004 scene) but start implementing changes in league format, and the game itself (through UMS) to add some freshness to the scene.
They can also have sc2, but in a completely different league. That way, we can have both, and let progamers switch freely between the games (yes, it is possible that many big name BW players might switch, but that's a necessary risk). If one game thrives and another fails, at least that reflects WHAT THE VIEWERS WANT, and so the transition (If it happens that sc2 is more popular) would be much more natural and justified. It is conceivable that both games thrive, then, we can have a happy equilibrium.
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On April 21 2012 02:01 dmfg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 01:53 phosphorylation wrote:
It's just tremendously sad and unnatural that sc2 will be forced onto viewers only because the sponsors want it, rather than because the players, coaches (most), or most importantly, viewers want it
It does not bode well for this initiative and esports in general.
(I am talking purely about the scene in Korea, just so I don't get misinformed comments). Thing is... ultimately sponsors follow viewers. After all, that's the reason they're sponsoring in the first place - to reach viewers. I think it's too early to think of this as "the death of BW". More like "sponsors are getting edgy and want to try something new, to compare it". At the end of the day though, the viewers have the power to watch what they want to watch, and the sponsors must listen.
I think the sponsors are leapfrogging the viewer intent here, due to few factors. Newness of the alleged "sequel" of sc2. The match-fixing scandal. The unprecedented longevity of BW as esports.
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"Ji-hoon 'During his (Flash's) rehabilitation, he got to Masters (in SC2) without even knowing what the new units did'"
I smell a unimpressed flash meme
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On April 21 2012 01:59 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 01:57 Dirtysocks wrote:On April 21 2012 01:53 RatInPink wrote:many of my friends and people here seems supriced that the best players in the world have an easy time whit sc2, its not like the games are that different Well there was a lot of hype about Forgg. And he is now average. I am not saying all BW pros will be like that, but this is what we know so far. MC, MKP, MVP were very ok-ish sc:bw players aswell :D better not get at it, most people actually come from BW.
Yes, but MKP did not dominate week after he switched. It takes time, but yes they will be among the best. My point was to get to GM after such a short time(i have no idea when they actually started playing).
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ugh, this looks ugly. i wonder how many bw pros would actually switch. I image for one Stork will be starting to play wow again
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On April 21 2012 01:57 Dirtysocks wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 01:53 RatInPink wrote:many of my friends and people here seems supriced that the best players in the world have an easy time whit sc2, its not like the games are that different Well there was a lot of hype about Forgg. And he is now average. I am not saying all BW pros will be like that, but this is what we know so far.
Forgg was average to below average before he switched, now he's average to above average in SC2.
What happens when good BW players move over? Not just TBLS, but several team's rosters filled with solid A class players.  Stats,  Action, Crazy-Hydra, Best, Sun, EffOrt, Hydra, Movie,  Leta, Snow, Horang2, JangBi, TurN, Bogus, Calm, ZerO, SoulKey, Light, Sea, Killer, BaBy, Jaehoon, Kal, firebathero, and plenty I'm forgetting. Not to mention lower class players who may end up showing a spark in the new game. SC2 is dominated by former BW pros, most of which were either mediocre at best or well past their prime.
Still upset by the switch, but I'm holding out some slim hope that I'll be able to enjoy Sc2 when it happens. Nothing else has worked.
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On April 21 2012 02:04 phosphorylation wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 02:01 dmfg wrote:On April 21 2012 01:53 phosphorylation wrote:
It's just tremendously sad and unnatural that sc2 will be forced onto viewers only because the sponsors want it, rather than because the players, coaches (most), or most importantly, viewers want it
It does not bode well for this initiative and esports in general.
(I am talking purely about the scene in Korea, just so I don't get misinformed comments). Thing is... ultimately sponsors follow viewers. After all, that's the reason they're sponsoring in the first place - to reach viewers. I think it's too early to think of this as "the death of BW". More like "sponsors are getting edgy and want to try something new, to compare it". At the end of the day though, the viewers have the power to watch what they want to watch, and the sponsors must listen. I think the sponsors are leapfrogging the viewer intent here, due to few factors. Newness of the alleged "sequel" of sc2. The match-fixing scandal. The unprecedented longevity of BW as esports.
Sponsors can't afford to leapfrog viewer's intent, the whole deal of sponsoring is reaching out to the highest number of viewers as possible. Don't fool yourself.
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On April 21 2012 02:05 pebble444 wrote:
ugh, this looks ugly. i wonder how many bw pros would actually switch. I image for one Stork will be starting to play wow again
didn't stork flirt with LoL? seeing that it's really popular some might switch to LoL as well.
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I hope that Horangee GM stuff is from a while ago. The kid has an OSL to win, no time for sc2 right now
Either way, if true, that's pretty fucking impressive
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On April 21 2012 01:58 Ssin wrote:
What will be really funny is if the same thing happens where Koreans completely shutout all foreigners in sc2 and the foreign scene dies again. Then we can move back to BW.
What is really funny is that has already happened ;p
There is what, 2 foreigners that are even considered close to average Korean Progamer skill? Stephano and Naniwa, can't think of anyone else off the top of my head. Foreign scene representation in any competition that Korean teams choose to participate in is underwhelming. Ever since the Korean teams decided to acknowledge foreign tournaments it's been a complete slaughter. Code B Koreans are better and far more consistent than the best foreigners. It's only logical to assume that BW pros will be able to widen the gap at least slightly more.
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On April 21 2012 02:08 howLiN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 02:04 phosphorylation wrote:On April 21 2012 02:01 dmfg wrote:On April 21 2012 01:53 phosphorylation wrote:
It's just tremendously sad and unnatural that sc2 will be forced onto viewers only because the sponsors want it, rather than because the players, coaches (most), or most importantly, viewers want it
It does not bode well for this initiative and esports in general.
(I am talking purely about the scene in Korea, just so I don't get misinformed comments). Thing is... ultimately sponsors follow viewers. After all, that's the reason they're sponsoring in the first place - to reach viewers. I think it's too early to think of this as "the death of BW". More like "sponsors are getting edgy and want to try something new, to compare it". At the end of the day though, the viewers have the power to watch what they want to watch, and the sponsors must listen. I think the sponsors are leapfrogging the viewer intent here, due to few factors. Newness of the alleged "sequel" of sc2. The match-fixing scandal. The unprecedented longevity of BW as esports. Sponsors can't afford to leapfrog viewer's intent, the whole deal of sponsoring is reaching out to the highest number of viewers as possible. Don't fool yourself.
...
They are in Korea, simply because in korea, current BW interest and viewrs >>> current SC2 interest and viewers. They think in the long term, SC2 holds more potential for drawing viewers. That may be correct or but it also may be bullshit. But that's why they are so eager on the switch.
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On April 21 2012 02:07 deafhobbit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 01:57 Dirtysocks wrote:On April 21 2012 01:53 RatInPink wrote:many of my friends and people here seems supriced that the best players in the world have an easy time whit sc2, its not like the games are that different Well there was a lot of hype about Forgg. And he is now average. I am not saying all BW pros will be like that, but this is what we know so far. What happens when good BW players move over?
You mean like HyuN?
Here's what he has to say on it
Some StarCraft: Brood War players like MVP, MC, and Nestea have found success in StarCraft 2. Do you think other StarCraft: Brood War players will do as well?
I don’t think I can say for sure regarding this topic. The players who successfully switched over to StarCraft 2 worked that much harder to do well. If more players from StarCraft: Brood War continue to switch over, they will also need to work really hard in order to succeed as well.
HyuN has been playing for 6 months now and has only began to break into Code A.
Source: http://polarfluke.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=348
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On April 21 2012 02:09 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 01:58 Ssin wrote:
What will be really funny is if the same thing happens where Koreans completely shutout all foreigners in sc2 and the foreign scene dies again. Then we can move back to BW. What is really funny is that has already happened ;p There is what, 2 foreigners that are even considered close to average Korean Progamer skill? Stephano and Naniwa, can't think of anyone else off the top of my head. Foreign scene representation in any competition that Korean teams choose to participate in is underwhelming. Ever since the Korean teams decided to acknowledge foreign tournaments it's been a complete slaughter. Code B Koreans are better and far more consistent than the best foreigners. It's only logical to assume that BW pros will be able to widen the gap at least slightly more.
Go read the featured article about foreigners at IPL4.
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Just want to let you guys know that team 8 and skt had practice match in BW not SC2. This took place while skt was preparing for the final and the part of Coach Ju saying that the players controls improving refers to when they switched back to help skt practice after practicing sc2.
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On April 21 2012 02:10 ptrpb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 02:07 deafhobbit wrote:On April 21 2012 01:57 Dirtysocks wrote:On April 21 2012 01:53 RatInPink wrote:many of my friends and people here seems supriced that the best players in the world have an easy time whit sc2, its not like the games are that different Well there was a lot of hype about Forgg. And he is now average. I am not saying all BW pros will be like that, but this is what we know so far. What happens when good BW players move over? You mean like HyuN? Here's what he has to say on it Some StarCraft: Brood War players like MVP, MC, and Nestea have found success in StarCraft 2. Do you think other StarCraft: Brood War players will do as well?
I don’t think I can say for sure regarding this topic. The players who successfully switched over to StarCraft 2 worked that much harder to do well. If more players from StarCraft: Brood War continue to switch over, they will also need to work really hard in order to succeed as well. HyuN has been playing for 6 months now and has only began to break into Code A. Source: http://polarfluke.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=348
One example from a mediocre player. My point is not that all of these players will dominate (which is obviously impossible) it is that there is good reason to believe many of them will do well. Yeah, Flash and Jaedong and co will do great, but even they lose to players on that list on occasion, and there's no reason to doubt that many of them will do quite well post switch.
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EPT
