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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1187 Posts
On January 30 2012 08:40 Yodo wrote:Actually it should be: Less focus on mechanics, less focus on unit control, less focus on tactics. SC2 doesn't redistribute, it lowers level in all directions.
To be fair, at very low levels, less focus on mechanics does indeed mean more focus on tactics. Eg when you first start out you're inevitably going to be too busy trying to get everything done than thinking about the larger plan.
But on the flip side, if your mechanics so bad that you don't even have time to think about tactics, your pretty much better off working on your mechanics anyway.
But yeah at higher levels, less focus on mechanics simply does not mean more focus on unit control or tactics. Trying to equate them would merely indicate an ignorance of what seperates the top players in BW.
On January 30 2012 07:34 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 06:37 ffreakk wrote:On January 30 2012 06:08 ClutchSC wrote:On January 30 2012 05:48 BisuDagger wrote:On January 30 2012 05:36 KenNage wrote:
i feel the same way Hinanawi does, i dont give a crap about esports, i only care about bw I am a die hard sc:bw fan, but I actually do want eSports to succeed. And it's not so bw is played forever. I honestly hope SC2's end result can turn into the epic game BW made SC vanilla. I love watching competitive video games because it's such an intense mentality that so many people are missing out on by not watching the pros play. I want to go to MLG and be in love with the side events because the competitiveness of the game has escalated in the other genres too. There is such a future for competitive gaming and it would be awesome to see it grow into fruition. And on a personal note, if bw doesn't last for the next decade I really hope SC2 evolves into the game I know it can be. When I watched DRG vs MMA finals I actually was cheering like I do for BW. I'm following the SC2 scene now because I want to be personal with the players by the time the game does succeed and I know it will. Nothing will hurt eSports. Just love the game. Love others who love their game. And encourage each other to continue the love for the game they are interested in. We are all brothers of a great community and united we can bring this to the rest of the world. This is exactly the type of BW community member that I wish the entire community would follow the example of. I don't s'pose you expect people to reply "Your wish is my command"? We didn't waltz into your SC2 section and sh*t all over it, so you ll be hard-pressed to find justifications for your coming here with words like "What the fuck is your problem?" or "Grow the fuck up!". We (not all, but a good number) don't share your "eSport" ideal, and also happen to think that your favourite game is trash. We were also decent enough to only discuss that in our own secluded area where you people usually don't frequent. We also don't appreciate you people waltzing in here, insulting us, then have the balls to think that they can tell us what we should think or do. Actually that is exactly what some brood war fans do. There was even a gigantic thread where called "The elephant in the room" made by a tl writer which basically shitted on everything sc2 has atm and calling it a farce. This said thread is getting constantly bumped whenever a recent bw to sc2 player wins a match. Other examples are when bw info gets posted in the sc2 section about a recent switch and we ask "who is that, never heard of it" instead of actually explaining stuff we are called a bunch a ignorant idiots. So please, don't pretend you are on the only side that has to see this crap.
Yeah so there are assholes on the BW side too, there are always people who like to troll to get a reaction. So that totally justifies retaliation right?
News flash, a great deal of people in the BW forums, I would hazard to guess MOST people still in the BW forums, don't even read the SC2 section let alone post in it. All your doing by taking sc2 to the BW section is upsetting the silent(regarding sc2) majority. I'm sure it's the same way with sc2, most of you don't come to the BW sections to talk about SC2, cos lets face it there are alot more of you, if you guys did that there would be nothing in the bw sections other than sc2 talk.
Just because some people are assholes does it really mean we need to shit on each other's forums in retaliation? Cos your not really hurting the people who are doing the shitting in the first place, clearly they have no qualms about comparing the 2 games if they are not only willing to post about it but go to your side of the forums to do it, the one's you are hurting are the ones who don't care about SC2/BW on the other forum.
disclaimer: I don't think the op is a thread designed to 'shit on this side of the forums', he is trying to make a valid, bw related, if somewhat misguided point. The thread really should have stopped at:
OP: You guys should totally try SC2
BW forums: We already have.
OP: It could help you get better at BW.
BW forums: We will improve more at BW by playing more BW, we kinda prefer this game. Thanks but no thanks.
/endthread
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I hope people realize that both scene needs each other to survive, or the RTS eSports in general will start declining soon.
Also, it is not a bad thing to try out both games if you have time/money. Instead of hating a game because it looks 'noobish', it is better if you actually understand what's good/bad about both games. Not saying that you guys haven't done so already, but I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people arguing here without trying both games.
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On January 30 2012 10:15 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 08:40 Yodo wrote:Less focus on mechanics = more focus on unit control and tactics Actually it should be: Less focus on mechanics, less focus on unit control, less focus on tactics. SC2 doesn't redistribute, it lowers level in all directions. To be fair, at very low levels, less focus on mechanics does indeed mean more focus on tactics. Eg when you first start out you're inevitably going to be too busy trying to get everything done than thinking about the larger plan. But on the flip side, if your mechanics so bad that you don't even have time to think about tactics, your pretty much better off working on your mechanics anyway. But yeah at higher levels, less focus on mechanics simply does not mean more focus on unit control or tactics. Trying to equate them would merely indicate an ignorance of what seperates the top players in BW. Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 07:34 Assirra wrote:On January 30 2012 06:37 ffreakk wrote:On January 30 2012 06:08 ClutchSC wrote:On January 30 2012 05:48 BisuDagger wrote:On January 30 2012 05:36 KenNage wrote:
i feel the same way Hinanawi does, i dont give a crap about esports, i only care about bw I am a die hard sc:bw fan, but I actually do want eSports to succeed. And it's not so bw is played forever. I honestly hope SC2's end result can turn into the epic game BW made SC vanilla. I love watching competitive video games because it's such an intense mentality that so many people are missing out on by not watching the pros play. I want to go to MLG and be in love with the side events because the competitiveness of the game has escalated in the other genres too. There is such a future for competitive gaming and it would be awesome to see it grow into fruition. And on a personal note, if bw doesn't last for the next decade I really hope SC2 evolves into the game I know it can be. When I watched DRG vs MMA finals I actually was cheering like I do for BW. I'm following the SC2 scene now because I want to be personal with the players by the time the game does succeed and I know it will. Nothing will hurt eSports. Just love the game. Love others who love their game. And encourage each other to continue the love for the game they are interested in. We are all brothers of a great community and united we can bring this to the rest of the world. This is exactly the type of BW community member that I wish the entire community would follow the example of. I don't s'pose you expect people to reply "Your wish is my command"? We didn't waltz into your SC2 section and sh*t all over it, so you ll be hard-pressed to find justifications for your coming here with words like "What the fuck is your problem?" or "Grow the fuck up!". We (not all, but a good number) don't share your "eSport" ideal, and also happen to think that your favourite game is trash. We were also decent enough to only discuss that in our own secluded area where you people usually don't frequent. We also don't appreciate you people waltzing in here, insulting us, then have the balls to think that they can tell us what we should think or do. Actually that is exactly what some brood war fans do. There was even a gigantic thread where called "The elephant in the room" made by a tl writer which basically shitted on everything sc2 has atm and calling it a farce. This said thread is getting constantly bumped whenever a recent bw to sc2 player wins a match. Other examples are when bw info gets posted in the sc2 section about a recent switch and we ask "who is that, never heard of it" instead of actually explaining stuff we are called a bunch a ignorant idiots. So please, don't pretend you are on the only side that has to see this crap. Yeah so there are assholes on the BW side too, there are always people who like to troll to get a reaction. So that totally justifies retaliation right? News flash, a great deal of people in the BW forums, I would hazard to guess MOST people still in the BW forums, don't even read the SC2 section let alone post in it. All your doing by taking sc2 to the BW section is upsetting the silent(regarding sc2) majority. I'm sure it's the same way with sc2, most of you don't come to the BW sections to talk about SC2, cos lets face it there are alot more of you, if you guys did that there would be nothing in the bw sections other than sc2 talk. Just because some people are assholes does it really mean we need to shit on each other's forums in retaliation? Cos your not really hurting the people who are doing the shitting in the first place, clearly they have no qualms about comparing the 2 games if they are not only willing to post about it but go to your side of the forums to do it, the one's you are hurting are the ones who don't care about SC2/BW on the other forum. disclaimer: I don't think the op is a thread designed to 'shit on this side of the forums', he is trying to make a valid, bw related, if somewhat misguided point. The thread really should have stopped at: OP: You guys should totally try SC2 BW forums: We already have. OP: It could help you get better at BW. BW forums: We will improve more at BW by playing more BW, we kinda prefer this game. Thanks but no thanks. /endthread
This thread was a response from another thread about BW in the Sc2 forum so it's not just some random trolling attempt I would think.
Honestly this is whole thing is a shame with lots of childish actions from lots of people from both the Sc2 forum and the BW forum. I will never be able to fully understand what the BW scene is going through because I was way too young to experience the the game but if it is as bad as people are making it sound then I can understand why some of the reactions are the way they are.
An opinion is an opinion your free to think Sc2 is the shittiest game on the planet and BW was made by the gods as the perfect RTS and will never be topped and nothing anyone will say will change your mind. At the very least can we just not shit in each others forums so we can talk about what we actually love?
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On January 30 2012 06:17 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 06:06 ClutchSC wrote:On January 30 2012 05:28 Hinanawi wrote:On January 30 2012 04:53 ClutchSC wrote:
Second of all, I have to address a large majority of the BW community at large. What the fuck is your problem? Yes, BW has a higher skill cap as a game so far. Yes, the rivalries and games are more defined and can be extremely epic. And yes, the user interface of SC2 is very forgiving. But why, oh why do you have to shit all over SC2 constantly. We're all working towards developing eSports, but whenever I peruse through the BW section, all I see is hating on the SC2 scene; this just shouldn't happen. All that this achieves is the total alienation of a massive fanbase that BW players should be trying to appeal to. This is my request to a vast majority of the BW community; GROW THE FUCK UP. Grow up, so we can make eSports even bigger; SC2 has become the flagship of eSports and as much as you don't want to accept that, you have to. Once the BW community does accept that, we can all move forwards. Who knows, if the SC2 community gets into BW enough, there could even be MLG events that include it but this can only take once the BW community learns to drop the elitist attitude. I can only speak for myself, but I suspect many BW fans feel the same way: We don't give a shit about 'eSports'. We give a shit about competitive Brood War. 'X is hurting ESPORTS' started off as a joke, but I think some of you actually believe this. You actually believe that I'm supposed to support competitive SC2, LoL, Halo, and CoD just because they're video games and therefore 'esports'. You might say "but a lot of people don't take competitive video games seriously, so that's why we all need to band together!", and that would make sense...IF SC2 WAS A GOOD GAME, which it isn't. Games like that only serve to lower the opinion of competitive video games as a whole. So there's the whole cult saying if you say that a game is terrible it's 'hurting eSports' and is taboo. I'm sorry, but I didn't purchase a ticket on this cruise, and if SC2 is really the 'flagship' at the moment then I'd watch out for icebergs and make sure you have enough lifeboats ready on the S.S.ESPORTS. The point you make is a somewhat fair one; however I have to disagree with the point you make about competitive video games. First of all, if you give a shit about competitive BW, you should support competitive eSports. The only way your beloved BW will grow is by tapping into the massive fanbase which has sprung up around SC2. I would disagree with your statement that SC2 isn't a good game, but that is subjective. However, you follow up your subjective statement, with a ridiculous one; saying that games that aren't BW lower the opinion of competitive video games is totally unfounded and ridiculous. All this opinion does is create a vision of elitist BW players which will prevent SC2 fans from taking part in the BW community and watching replays. And if you are looking at this objectively, the BW community has much more growth to experience from working alongside the SC2 community than vice-versa. So all I ask, is that BW players follow the OP's example, and drop the fucking elitist attitude, because yes, I'm going to drop the cliche. BW Elitists are killing eSports. SC2 and Massive Fanbase? I am confused
Outside of Korea it seems to pretty much be the biggest esport out there.
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1187 Posts
On January 30 2012 10:28 supernovamaniac wrote:
I hope people realize that both scene needs each other to survive, or the RTS eSports in general will start declining soon.
Also, it is not a bad thing to try out both games if you have time/money. Instead of hating a game because it looks 'noobish', it is better if you actually understand what's good/bad about both games. Not saying that you guys haven't done so already, but I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people arguing here without trying both games.
I don't think anyone actually hates SC2 because it is noobish, even if thats what they say.
I mean we don't exactly see threads on here bashing supreme commander or sins of a solar empire and lets face it compared to SC2, competitively, those games are a joke.
I think some people resent SC2 for what they perceive as taking away some of the BW playerbase, the brouhaha with blizzard sueing kespa didn't help. Some are still bitter that SC2 is not really the sequel to the franchise we were looking for. Those 2 factors in combination really stings some *raises hand*, I mean watching some of the playerbase go off to a game you don't really consider to be a spiritual successor it was meant to be is kinda hard to take.
As for RTS eSports declining in general, well I think most of us here don't subscribe to this eSportology anyway. eSports was cool when it was a game or games that we actually cared about and making it's own way in the world. This new shiny eSports with a new flagship, and doesn't stop short of trying to cannibalise old infrastructure is probably not what most people still here signed up for.
If BW is dying soon then let the old girl die gracefully, I don't think too many are going to sink down to proping up a game we don't care about just to give BW a few more pitiful last breaths. We will be better served trying to keep BW alive by *gasp* actually trying to prop up BW, and merely wish the SC2ers the best of luck in their own endeavours.
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from the perspective of somebody who doesn't play either game, only watches, i will say that the skill ceiling seems to be a lot higher in bw and the games are a lot more exciting. i haven't watched sc2 in a while, but back when i did, most games i saw felt gimmicky - one player did something unanticipated and the game was basically over. i guess it didn't help that i didn't really understand what made one strat better than another.
i also think that no matter how good sc2 is as a game, there's a kind of canadian football phenomenon, too. i mean, it just doesn't look good to people who have been on the scene when bw b-teamers (who evinced no amazing talent at "strategy" and "mindgames" and whatever other high-falutin skills certain people will invent) are dominant. for a spectator, i mean, there's only so many hours in a day. why would you spend them on these guys instead of flash and jaedong?
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On January 30 2012 10:43 Dranak wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 06:17 jidolboy wrote:On January 30 2012 06:06 ClutchSC wrote:On January 30 2012 05:28 Hinanawi wrote:On January 30 2012 04:53 ClutchSC wrote:
Second of all, I have to address a large majority of the BW community at large. What the fuck is your problem? Yes, BW has a higher skill cap as a game so far. Yes, the rivalries and games are more defined and can be extremely epic. And yes, the user interface of SC2 is very forgiving. But why, oh why do you have to shit all over SC2 constantly. We're all working towards developing eSports, but whenever I peruse through the BW section, all I see is hating on the SC2 scene; this just shouldn't happen. All that this achieves is the total alienation of a massive fanbase that BW players should be trying to appeal to. This is my request to a vast majority of the BW community; GROW THE FUCK UP. Grow up, so we can make eSports even bigger; SC2 has become the flagship of eSports and as much as you don't want to accept that, you have to. Once the BW community does accept that, we can all move forwards. Who knows, if the SC2 community gets into BW enough, there could even be MLG events that include it but this can only take once the BW community learns to drop the elitist attitude. I can only speak for myself, but I suspect many BW fans feel the same way: We don't give a shit about 'eSports'. We give a shit about competitive Brood War. 'X is hurting ESPORTS' started off as a joke, but I think some of you actually believe this. You actually believe that I'm supposed to support competitive SC2, LoL, Halo, and CoD just because they're video games and therefore 'esports'. You might say "but a lot of people don't take competitive video games seriously, so that's why we all need to band together!", and that would make sense...IF SC2 WAS A GOOD GAME, which it isn't. Games like that only serve to lower the opinion of competitive video games as a whole. So there's the whole cult saying if you say that a game is terrible it's 'hurting eSports' and is taboo. I'm sorry, but I didn't purchase a ticket on this cruise, and if SC2 is really the 'flagship' at the moment then I'd watch out for icebergs and make sure you have enough lifeboats ready on the S.S.ESPORTS. The point you make is a somewhat fair one; however I have to disagree with the point you make about competitive video games. First of all, if you give a shit about competitive BW, you should support competitive eSports. The only way your beloved BW will grow is by tapping into the massive fanbase which has sprung up around SC2. I would disagree with your statement that SC2 isn't a good game, but that is subjective. However, you follow up your subjective statement, with a ridiculous one; saying that games that aren't BW lower the opinion of competitive video games is totally unfounded and ridiculous. All this opinion does is create a vision of elitist BW players which will prevent SC2 fans from taking part in the BW community and watching replays. And if you are looking at this objectively, the BW community has much more growth to experience from working alongside the SC2 community than vice-versa. So all I ask, is that BW players follow the OP's example, and drop the fucking elitist attitude, because yes, I'm going to drop the cliche. BW Elitists are killing eSports. SC2 and Massive Fanbase? I am confused Outside of Korea it seems to pretty much be the biggest esport out there.
how about LoL? ( no pun intended :D )
And scene outside of Korea is still smaller than compared to Korea so I wouldn't call SC2 a massive fanbase
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On January 30 2012 11:26 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 10:43 Dranak wrote:On January 30 2012 06:17 jidolboy wrote:On January 30 2012 06:06 ClutchSC wrote:On January 30 2012 05:28 Hinanawi wrote:On January 30 2012 04:53 ClutchSC wrote:
Second of all, I have to address a large majority of the BW community at large. What the fuck is your problem? Yes, BW has a higher skill cap as a game so far. Yes, the rivalries and games are more defined and can be extremely epic. And yes, the user interface of SC2 is very forgiving. But why, oh why do you have to shit all over SC2 constantly. We're all working towards developing eSports, but whenever I peruse through the BW section, all I see is hating on the SC2 scene; this just shouldn't happen. All that this achieves is the total alienation of a massive fanbase that BW players should be trying to appeal to. This is my request to a vast majority of the BW community; GROW THE FUCK UP. Grow up, so we can make eSports even bigger; SC2 has become the flagship of eSports and as much as you don't want to accept that, you have to. Once the BW community does accept that, we can all move forwards. Who knows, if the SC2 community gets into BW enough, there could even be MLG events that include it but this can only take once the BW community learns to drop the elitist attitude. I can only speak for myself, but I suspect many BW fans feel the same way: We don't give a shit about 'eSports'. We give a shit about competitive Brood War. 'X is hurting ESPORTS' started off as a joke, but I think some of you actually believe this. You actually believe that I'm supposed to support competitive SC2, LoL, Halo, and CoD just because they're video games and therefore 'esports'. You might say "but a lot of people don't take competitive video games seriously, so that's why we all need to band together!", and that would make sense...IF SC2 WAS A GOOD GAME, which it isn't. Games like that only serve to lower the opinion of competitive video games as a whole. So there's the whole cult saying if you say that a game is terrible it's 'hurting eSports' and is taboo. I'm sorry, but I didn't purchase a ticket on this cruise, and if SC2 is really the 'flagship' at the moment then I'd watch out for icebergs and make sure you have enough lifeboats ready on the S.S.ESPORTS. The point you make is a somewhat fair one; however I have to disagree with the point you make about competitive video games. First of all, if you give a shit about competitive BW, you should support competitive eSports. The only way your beloved BW will grow is by tapping into the massive fanbase which has sprung up around SC2. I would disagree with your statement that SC2 isn't a good game, but that is subjective. However, you follow up your subjective statement, with a ridiculous one; saying that games that aren't BW lower the opinion of competitive video games is totally unfounded and ridiculous. All this opinion does is create a vision of elitist BW players which will prevent SC2 fans from taking part in the BW community and watching replays. And if you are looking at this objectively, the BW community has much more growth to experience from working alongside the SC2 community than vice-versa. So all I ask, is that BW players follow the OP's example, and drop the fucking elitist attitude, because yes, I'm going to drop the cliche. BW Elitists are killing eSports. SC2 and Massive Fanbase? I am confused Outside of Korea it seems to pretty much be the biggest esport out there. how about LoL? ( no pun intended :D ) And scene outside of Korea is still smaller than compared to Korea so I wouldn't call SC2 a massive fanbase
Um...sc2 is HUGE outside of korea what are you talking about lol...
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On January 30 2012 11:31 Megaliskuu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 11:26 jidolboy wrote:On January 30 2012 10:43 Dranak wrote:On January 30 2012 06:17 jidolboy wrote:On January 30 2012 06:06 ClutchSC wrote:On January 30 2012 05:28 Hinanawi wrote:On January 30 2012 04:53 ClutchSC wrote:
Second of all, I have to address a large majority of the BW community at large. What the fuck is your problem? Yes, BW has a higher skill cap as a game so far. Yes, the rivalries and games are more defined and can be extremely epic. And yes, the user interface of SC2 is very forgiving. But why, oh why do you have to shit all over SC2 constantly. We're all working towards developing eSports, but whenever I peruse through the BW section, all I see is hating on the SC2 scene; this just shouldn't happen. All that this achieves is the total alienation of a massive fanbase that BW players should be trying to appeal to. This is my request to a vast majority of the BW community; GROW THE FUCK UP. Grow up, so we can make eSports even bigger; SC2 has become the flagship of eSports and as much as you don't want to accept that, you have to. Once the BW community does accept that, we can all move forwards. Who knows, if the SC2 community gets into BW enough, there could even be MLG events that include it but this can only take once the BW community learns to drop the elitist attitude. I can only speak for myself, but I suspect many BW fans feel the same way: We don't give a shit about 'eSports'. We give a shit about competitive Brood War. 'X is hurting ESPORTS' started off as a joke, but I think some of you actually believe this. You actually believe that I'm supposed to support competitive SC2, LoL, Halo, and CoD just because they're video games and therefore 'esports'. You might say "but a lot of people don't take competitive video games seriously, so that's why we all need to band together!", and that would make sense...IF SC2 WAS A GOOD GAME, which it isn't. Games like that only serve to lower the opinion of competitive video games as a whole. So there's the whole cult saying if you say that a game is terrible it's 'hurting eSports' and is taboo. I'm sorry, but I didn't purchase a ticket on this cruise, and if SC2 is really the 'flagship' at the moment then I'd watch out for icebergs and make sure you have enough lifeboats ready on the S.S.ESPORTS. The point you make is a somewhat fair one; however I have to disagree with the point you make about competitive video games. First of all, if you give a shit about competitive BW, you should support competitive eSports. The only way your beloved BW will grow is by tapping into the massive fanbase which has sprung up around SC2. I would disagree with your statement that SC2 isn't a good game, but that is subjective. However, you follow up your subjective statement, with a ridiculous one; saying that games that aren't BW lower the opinion of competitive video games is totally unfounded and ridiculous. All this opinion does is create a vision of elitist BW players which will prevent SC2 fans from taking part in the BW community and watching replays. And if you are looking at this objectively, the BW community has much more growth to experience from working alongside the SC2 community than vice-versa. So all I ask, is that BW players follow the OP's example, and drop the fucking elitist attitude, because yes, I'm going to drop the cliche. BW Elitists are killing eSports. SC2 and Massive Fanbase? I am confused Outside of Korea it seems to pretty much be the biggest esport out there. how about LoL? ( no pun intended :D ) And scene outside of Korea is still smaller than compared to Korea so I wouldn't call SC2 a massive fanbase Um...sc2 is HUGE outside of korea what are you talking about lol...
Depends on your definition of huge. Games like CoD have 100x as many people playing, although not necessarily watching.
I believe LoL is actually the biggest in terms of viewer numbers though, they have had something like 200k at tournaments where SC2 only has around 60-70k
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On January 30 2012 11:26 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 10:43 Dranak wrote:On January 30 2012 06:17 jidolboy wrote:On January 30 2012 06:06 ClutchSC wrote:On January 30 2012 05:28 Hinanawi wrote:On January 30 2012 04:53 ClutchSC wrote:
Second of all, I have to address a large majority of the BW community at large. What the fuck is your problem? Yes, BW has a higher skill cap as a game so far. Yes, the rivalries and games are more defined and can be extremely epic. And yes, the user interface of SC2 is very forgiving. But why, oh why do you have to shit all over SC2 constantly. We're all working towards developing eSports, but whenever I peruse through the BW section, all I see is hating on the SC2 scene; this just shouldn't happen. All that this achieves is the total alienation of a massive fanbase that BW players should be trying to appeal to. This is my request to a vast majority of the BW community; GROW THE FUCK UP. Grow up, so we can make eSports even bigger; SC2 has become the flagship of eSports and as much as you don't want to accept that, you have to. Once the BW community does accept that, we can all move forwards. Who knows, if the SC2 community gets into BW enough, there could even be MLG events that include it but this can only take once the BW community learns to drop the elitist attitude. I can only speak for myself, but I suspect many BW fans feel the same way: We don't give a shit about 'eSports'. We give a shit about competitive Brood War. 'X is hurting ESPORTS' started off as a joke, but I think some of you actually believe this. You actually believe that I'm supposed to support competitive SC2, LoL, Halo, and CoD just because they're video games and therefore 'esports'. You might say "but a lot of people don't take competitive video games seriously, so that's why we all need to band together!", and that would make sense...IF SC2 WAS A GOOD GAME, which it isn't. Games like that only serve to lower the opinion of competitive video games as a whole. So there's the whole cult saying if you say that a game is terrible it's 'hurting eSports' and is taboo. I'm sorry, but I didn't purchase a ticket on this cruise, and if SC2 is really the 'flagship' at the moment then I'd watch out for icebergs and make sure you have enough lifeboats ready on the S.S.ESPORTS. The point you make is a somewhat fair one; however I have to disagree with the point you make about competitive video games. First of all, if you give a shit about competitive BW, you should support competitive eSports. The only way your beloved BW will grow is by tapping into the massive fanbase which has sprung up around SC2. I would disagree with your statement that SC2 isn't a good game, but that is subjective. However, you follow up your subjective statement, with a ridiculous one; saying that games that aren't BW lower the opinion of competitive video games is totally unfounded and ridiculous. All this opinion does is create a vision of elitist BW players which will prevent SC2 fans from taking part in the BW community and watching replays. And if you are looking at this objectively, the BW community has much more growth to experience from working alongside the SC2 community than vice-versa. So all I ask, is that BW players follow the OP's example, and drop the fucking elitist attitude, because yes, I'm going to drop the cliche. BW Elitists are killing eSports. SC2 and Massive Fanbase? I am confused Outside of Korea it seems to pretty much be the biggest esport out there. how about LoL? ( no pun intended :D ) And scene outside of Korea is still smaller than compared to Korea so I wouldn't call SC2 a massive fanbase
LoL is probably the one game that draws a larger audience, in part because of how heavily events are supported/advertised by Riot. I don't know if the overall fan base (in terms of viewers, not players) is actually larger but obviously the max viewers are higher.
I'm obviously not in Korea, but it seems the overall scene is larger outside of Korea (at least as a portion of the overall viewership/fan base for esports). SC2 seems to be the inverse of BW, which is obviously far more popular in Korea than outside of it.
I will agree that "massive" seems to be an overstatement.
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On January 30 2012 11:31 Megaliskuu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 11:26 jidolboy wrote:On January 30 2012 10:43 Dranak wrote:On January 30 2012 06:17 jidolboy wrote:On January 30 2012 06:06 ClutchSC wrote:On January 30 2012 05:28 Hinanawi wrote:On January 30 2012 04:53 ClutchSC wrote:
Second of all, I have to address a large majority of the BW community at large. What the fuck is your problem? Yes, BW has a higher skill cap as a game so far. Yes, the rivalries and games are more defined and can be extremely epic. And yes, the user interface of SC2 is very forgiving. But why, oh why do you have to shit all over SC2 constantly. We're all working towards developing eSports, but whenever I peruse through the BW section, all I see is hating on the SC2 scene; this just shouldn't happen. All that this achieves is the total alienation of a massive fanbase that BW players should be trying to appeal to. This is my request to a vast majority of the BW community; GROW THE FUCK UP. Grow up, so we can make eSports even bigger; SC2 has become the flagship of eSports and as much as you don't want to accept that, you have to. Once the BW community does accept that, we can all move forwards. Who knows, if the SC2 community gets into BW enough, there could even be MLG events that include it but this can only take once the BW community learns to drop the elitist attitude. I can only speak for myself, but I suspect many BW fans feel the same way: We don't give a shit about 'eSports'. We give a shit about competitive Brood War. 'X is hurting ESPORTS' started off as a joke, but I think some of you actually believe this. You actually believe that I'm supposed to support competitive SC2, LoL, Halo, and CoD just because they're video games and therefore 'esports'. You might say "but a lot of people don't take competitive video games seriously, so that's why we all need to band together!", and that would make sense...IF SC2 WAS A GOOD GAME, which it isn't. Games like that only serve to lower the opinion of competitive video games as a whole. So there's the whole cult saying if you say that a game is terrible it's 'hurting eSports' and is taboo. I'm sorry, but I didn't purchase a ticket on this cruise, and if SC2 is really the 'flagship' at the moment then I'd watch out for icebergs and make sure you have enough lifeboats ready on the S.S.ESPORTS. The point you make is a somewhat fair one; however I have to disagree with the point you make about competitive video games. First of all, if you give a shit about competitive BW, you should support competitive eSports. The only way your beloved BW will grow is by tapping into the massive fanbase which has sprung up around SC2. I would disagree with your statement that SC2 isn't a good game, but that is subjective. However, you follow up your subjective statement, with a ridiculous one; saying that games that aren't BW lower the opinion of competitive video games is totally unfounded and ridiculous. All this opinion does is create a vision of elitist BW players which will prevent SC2 fans from taking part in the BW community and watching replays. And if you are looking at this objectively, the BW community has much more growth to experience from working alongside the SC2 community than vice-versa. So all I ask, is that BW players follow the OP's example, and drop the fucking elitist attitude, because yes, I'm going to drop the cliche. BW Elitists are killing eSports. SC2 and Massive Fanbase? I am confused Outside of Korea it seems to pretty much be the biggest esport out there. how about LoL? ( no pun intended :D ) And scene outside of Korea is still smaller than compared to Korea so I wouldn't call SC2 a massive fanbase Um...sc2 is HUGE outside of korea what are you talking about lol...
First there are plenty of other games which have bigger players and watchers such as LoL, COD, Halo and CS
Also, if SC2 is HUGE outside of Korea, do you think it can support itself without help from Korean scene? (teams, players, competition ).
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On January 30 2012 11:51 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 11:31 Megaliskuu wrote:On January 30 2012 11:26 jidolboy wrote:On January 30 2012 10:43 Dranak wrote:On January 30 2012 06:17 jidolboy wrote:On January 30 2012 06:06 ClutchSC wrote:On January 30 2012 05:28 Hinanawi wrote:On January 30 2012 04:53 ClutchSC wrote:
Second of all, I have to address a large majority of the BW community at large. What the fuck is your problem? Yes, BW has a higher skill cap as a game so far. Yes, the rivalries and games are more defined and can be extremely epic. And yes, the user interface of SC2 is very forgiving. But why, oh why do you have to shit all over SC2 constantly. We're all working towards developing eSports, but whenever I peruse through the BW section, all I see is hating on the SC2 scene; this just shouldn't happen. All that this achieves is the total alienation of a massive fanbase that BW players should be trying to appeal to. This is my request to a vast majority of the BW community; GROW THE FUCK UP. Grow up, so we can make eSports even bigger; SC2 has become the flagship of eSports and as much as you don't want to accept that, you have to. Once the BW community does accept that, we can all move forwards. Who knows, if the SC2 community gets into BW enough, there could even be MLG events that include it but this can only take once the BW community learns to drop the elitist attitude. I can only speak for myself, but I suspect many BW fans feel the same way: We don't give a shit about 'eSports'. We give a shit about competitive Brood War. 'X is hurting ESPORTS' started off as a joke, but I think some of you actually believe this. You actually believe that I'm supposed to support competitive SC2, LoL, Halo, and CoD just because they're video games and therefore 'esports'. You might say "but a lot of people don't take competitive video games seriously, so that's why we all need to band together!", and that would make sense...IF SC2 WAS A GOOD GAME, which it isn't. Games like that only serve to lower the opinion of competitive video games as a whole. So there's the whole cult saying if you say that a game is terrible it's 'hurting eSports' and is taboo. I'm sorry, but I didn't purchase a ticket on this cruise, and if SC2 is really the 'flagship' at the moment then I'd watch out for icebergs and make sure you have enough lifeboats ready on the S.S.ESPORTS. The point you make is a somewhat fair one; however I have to disagree with the point you make about competitive video games. First of all, if you give a shit about competitive BW, you should support competitive eSports. The only way your beloved BW will grow is by tapping into the massive fanbase which has sprung up around SC2. I would disagree with your statement that SC2 isn't a good game, but that is subjective. However, you follow up your subjective statement, with a ridiculous one; saying that games that aren't BW lower the opinion of competitive video games is totally unfounded and ridiculous. All this opinion does is create a vision of elitist BW players which will prevent SC2 fans from taking part in the BW community and watching replays. And if you are looking at this objectively, the BW community has much more growth to experience from working alongside the SC2 community than vice-versa. So all I ask, is that BW players follow the OP's example, and drop the fucking elitist attitude, because yes, I'm going to drop the cliche. BW Elitists are killing eSports. SC2 and Massive Fanbase? I am confused Outside of Korea it seems to pretty much be the biggest esport out there. how about LoL? ( no pun intended :D ) And scene outside of Korea is still smaller than compared to Korea so I wouldn't call SC2 a massive fanbase Um...sc2 is HUGE outside of korea what are you talking about lol... First there are plenty of other games which have bigger players and watchers such as LoL, COD, Halo and CS Also, if SC2 is HUGE outside of Korea, do you think it can support itself without help from Korean scene? (teams, players, competition ). I don't think so
I don't dispute those titles being very popular with players still, but I've never seen COD or Halo come close to the viewer numbers that SC2 (and obviously LoL) can pull. Of course my experience with them largely comes from MLG events. I honestly don't know how CS does for viewer numbers.
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awesome mirroring of threads. I don't main BW but I agree with everything you have said <3.
Also CoD Halo and CS don't hold a candle in the foreigner scene next to SC2. Maybe LoL... But it could be argued that it's about 1:1
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On January 28 2012 01:23 Mazaire wrote:
As someone who is not form BW, just reading this thread, I felt it could have been better implemented. Thing is, Sc2 is a game that is very much still in its infancy. Unlike brood war which is 10 (11?) years old now, it hasn't had the time to be balanced, worked out and made more interesting to an extent. The game is still waiting two more expansions so who knows what will happen between now and then. So i feel that though the generally BW community should give it a chance, even though objectively BW may be a whole lot more fun to play.
One of the threads that makes me violently ill is the elephant in the room thread. That thread was written off the back of a couple of months of REALLY bad pro performance/games and basically is a thread that bashes SC2 and its players. But by comparison BW players were barely figuring out how to use hotkeys and work out mechanics. Give SC2 another 8 years and 2 expansions and i get the feeling that the feel of the game will be more worked out as well, which is the general feel i am getting from the majority of posters.
Tldr: The Op was poorly implemented because SC2 is no where mature as BW yet. Time will tell.
The thing is BW was very popular and very interesting to watch in its infancy as well (although I started watching about 2 years ago). Boxer was amazing to watch and he came around 2 years after the first OSL. Even watching Grrrr play was interesting. 10 years later, the play is definitely different, but in terms of spectating its arguable that it hasn't gotten better since the days of Boxer. Its still awesome to watch nevertheless.
Flash's arrival definitely put a dint in my grand finals watching, we stopped organising meets simply because we no longer thought "who is gonna win", just "how long till Flash pushes out", and everyone would just sigh when Jaedong couldn't defend the first push... 5 times in a row, till Jaedong resorted to just 4 pooling every game and still losing.
2007 might have been the pinnacle, it had the biggest audiences, the best players were also the most exciting players to watch and catered to two different audiences, both Bisu the multitasking micro genius and Savior the tactical strategical genius. Sure that's 7 years after OSL's inception, but still, watching Boxer in his prime was also amazing.
That's why saying give it another 8 years doesn't really hold, expansions probably will make a big difference, but we can't assume that the evolution of play will necessarily make it better. If Flash2 comes along for SC2, it will probably cease to be a spectator-sport.
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I played SC2 and it was fun, I guess. But I felt that the quality of gameplay was less interesting and felt really spammy. Zerg is really fun to play. SC2 is full of absolute noobs too. All you have to do is macro and you kinda win at low levels.
Broodwar feels more interesting because I know more about the game, i.e. I like practicing my gamesense. I guess SC2 would be just as fun if you played it more. I hate how it is so graphic intensive though. Takes too long to load.
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On January 30 2012 06:17 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 06:06 ClutchSC wrote:On January 30 2012 05:28 Hinanawi wrote:On January 30 2012 04:53 ClutchSC wrote:
Second of all, I have to address a large majority of the BW community at large. What the fuck is your problem? Yes, BW has a higher skill cap as a game so far. Yes, the rivalries and games are more defined and can be extremely epic. And yes, the user interface of SC2 is very forgiving. But why, oh why do you have to shit all over SC2 constantly. We're all working towards developing eSports, but whenever I peruse through the BW section, all I see is hating on the SC2 scene; this just shouldn't happen. All that this achieves is the total alienation of a massive fanbase that BW players should be trying to appeal to. This is my request to a vast majority of the BW community; GROW THE FUCK UP. Grow up, so we can make eSports even bigger; SC2 has become the flagship of eSports and as much as you don't want to accept that, you have to. Once the BW community does accept that, we can all move forwards. Who knows, if the SC2 community gets into BW enough, there could even be MLG events that include it but this can only take once the BW community learns to drop the elitist attitude. I can only speak for myself, but I suspect many BW fans feel the same way: We don't give a shit about 'eSports'. We give a shit about competitive Brood War. 'X is hurting ESPORTS' started off as a joke, but I think some of you actually believe this. You actually believe that I'm supposed to support competitive SC2, LoL, Halo, and CoD just because they're video games and therefore 'esports'. You might say "but a lot of people don't take competitive video games seriously, so that's why we all need to band together!", and that would make sense...IF SC2 WAS A GOOD GAME, which it isn't. Games like that only serve to lower the opinion of competitive video games as a whole. So there's the whole cult saying if you say that a game is terrible it's 'hurting eSports' and is taboo. I'm sorry, but I didn't purchase a ticket on this cruise, and if SC2 is really the 'flagship' at the moment then I'd watch out for icebergs and make sure you have enough lifeboats ready on the S.S.ESPORTS. The point you make is a somewhat fair one; however I have to disagree with the point you make about competitive video games. First of all, if you give a shit about competitive BW, you should support competitive eSports. The only way your beloved BW will grow is by tapping into the massive fanbase which has sprung up around SC2. I would disagree with your statement that SC2 isn't a good game, but that is subjective. However, you follow up your subjective statement, with a ridiculous one; saying that games that aren't BW lower the opinion of competitive video games is totally unfounded and ridiculous. All this opinion does is create a vision of elitist BW players which will prevent SC2 fans from taking part in the BW community and watching replays. And if you are looking at this objectively, the BW community has much more growth to experience from working alongside the SC2 community than vice-versa. So all I ask, is that BW players follow the OP's example, and drop the fucking elitist attitude, because yes, I'm going to drop the cliche. BW Elitists are killing eSports. SC2 and Massive Fanbase? I am confused
Ahh, willful ignorance.. gotta love it. The world doesn't revolve around Korea man. Doesn't matter what you think about in terms of SC2 vs BW, you can't deny that SC2 has a huge global fan base. I don't know which is more popular in Korea right now (I'm inclined to believe BW is), but I'm also inclined to believe that SC2 as more popular on a global scale.
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On January 30 2012 13:30 Supamang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 06:17 jidolboy wrote:On January 30 2012 06:06 ClutchSC wrote:On January 30 2012 05:28 Hinanawi wrote:On January 30 2012 04:53 ClutchSC wrote:
Second of all, I have to address a large majority of the BW community at large. What the fuck is your problem? Yes, BW has a higher skill cap as a game so far. Yes, the rivalries and games are more defined and can be extremely epic. And yes, the user interface of SC2 is very forgiving. But why, oh why do you have to shit all over SC2 constantly. We're all working towards developing eSports, but whenever I peruse through the BW section, all I see is hating on the SC2 scene; this just shouldn't happen. All that this achieves is the total alienation of a massive fanbase that BW players should be trying to appeal to. This is my request to a vast majority of the BW community; GROW THE FUCK UP. Grow up, so we can make eSports even bigger; SC2 has become the flagship of eSports and as much as you don't want to accept that, you have to. Once the BW community does accept that, we can all move forwards. Who knows, if the SC2 community gets into BW enough, there could even be MLG events that include it but this can only take once the BW community learns to drop the elitist attitude. I can only speak for myself, but I suspect many BW fans feel the same way: We don't give a shit about 'eSports'. We give a shit about competitive Brood War. 'X is hurting ESPORTS' started off as a joke, but I think some of you actually believe this. You actually believe that I'm supposed to support competitive SC2, LoL, Halo, and CoD just because they're video games and therefore 'esports'. You might say "but a lot of people don't take competitive video games seriously, so that's why we all need to band together!", and that would make sense...IF SC2 WAS A GOOD GAME, which it isn't. Games like that only serve to lower the opinion of competitive video games as a whole. So there's the whole cult saying if you say that a game is terrible it's 'hurting eSports' and is taboo. I'm sorry, but I didn't purchase a ticket on this cruise, and if SC2 is really the 'flagship' at the moment then I'd watch out for icebergs and make sure you have enough lifeboats ready on the S.S.ESPORTS. The point you make is a somewhat fair one; however I have to disagree with the point you make about competitive video games. First of all, if you give a shit about competitive BW, you should support competitive eSports. The only way your beloved BW will grow is by tapping into the massive fanbase which has sprung up around SC2. I would disagree with your statement that SC2 isn't a good game, but that is subjective. However, you follow up your subjective statement, with a ridiculous one; saying that games that aren't BW lower the opinion of competitive video games is totally unfounded and ridiculous. All this opinion does is create a vision of elitist BW players which will prevent SC2 fans from taking part in the BW community and watching replays. And if you are looking at this objectively, the BW community has much more growth to experience from working alongside the SC2 community than vice-versa. So all I ask, is that BW players follow the OP's example, and drop the fucking elitist attitude, because yes, I'm going to drop the cliche. BW Elitists are killing eSports. SC2 and Massive Fanbase? I am confused Ahh, willful ignorance.. gotta love it. The world doesn't revolve around Korea man. Doesn't matter what you think about in terms of SC2 vs BW, you can't deny that SC2 has a huge global fan base. I don't know which is more popular in Korea right now (I'm inclined to believe BW is), but I'm also inclined to believe that SC2 as more popular on a global scale.
Again with these words, huge, massive. 100 can be massive. 100000 can be small. Depending on how you look at it.
And BW is miles ahead of SC2 in terms of Korean popularity, but SC2 is miles ahead in the foreign scene. I'm talking miles for both areas.
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On January 30 2012 13:30 Supamang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 06:17 jidolboy wrote:On January 30 2012 06:06 ClutchSC wrote:On January 30 2012 05:28 Hinanawi wrote:On January 30 2012 04:53 ClutchSC wrote:
Second of all, I have to address a large majority of the BW community at large. What the fuck is your problem? Yes, BW has a higher skill cap as a game so far. Yes, the rivalries and games are more defined and can be extremely epic. And yes, the user interface of SC2 is very forgiving. But why, oh why do you have to shit all over SC2 constantly. We're all working towards developing eSports, but whenever I peruse through the BW section, all I see is hating on the SC2 scene; this just shouldn't happen. All that this achieves is the total alienation of a massive fanbase that BW players should be trying to appeal to. This is my request to a vast majority of the BW community; GROW THE FUCK UP. Grow up, so we can make eSports even bigger; SC2 has become the flagship of eSports and as much as you don't want to accept that, you have to. Once the BW community does accept that, we can all move forwards. Who knows, if the SC2 community gets into BW enough, there could even be MLG events that include it but this can only take once the BW community learns to drop the elitist attitude. I can only speak for myself, but I suspect many BW fans feel the same way: We don't give a shit about 'eSports'. We give a shit about competitive Brood War. 'X is hurting ESPORTS' started off as a joke, but I think some of you actually believe this. You actually believe that I'm supposed to support competitive SC2, LoL, Halo, and CoD just because they're video games and therefore 'esports'. You might say "but a lot of people don't take competitive video games seriously, so that's why we all need to band together!", and that would make sense...IF SC2 WAS A GOOD GAME, which it isn't. Games like that only serve to lower the opinion of competitive video games as a whole. So there's the whole cult saying if you say that a game is terrible it's 'hurting eSports' and is taboo. I'm sorry, but I didn't purchase a ticket on this cruise, and if SC2 is really the 'flagship' at the moment then I'd watch out for icebergs and make sure you have enough lifeboats ready on the S.S.ESPORTS. The point you make is a somewhat fair one; however I have to disagree with the point you make about competitive video games. First of all, if you give a shit about competitive BW, you should support competitive eSports. The only way your beloved BW will grow is by tapping into the massive fanbase which has sprung up around SC2. I would disagree with your statement that SC2 isn't a good game, but that is subjective. However, you follow up your subjective statement, with a ridiculous one; saying that games that aren't BW lower the opinion of competitive video games is totally unfounded and ridiculous. All this opinion does is create a vision of elitist BW players which will prevent SC2 fans from taking part in the BW community and watching replays. And if you are looking at this objectively, the BW community has much more growth to experience from working alongside the SC2 community than vice-versa. So all I ask, is that BW players follow the OP's example, and drop the fucking elitist attitude, because yes, I'm going to drop the cliche. BW Elitists are killing eSports. SC2 and Massive Fanbase? I am confused Ahh, willful ignorance.. gotta love it. The world doesn't revolve around Korea man. Doesn't matter what you think about in terms of SC2 vs BW, you can't deny that SC2 has a huge global fan base. I don't know which is more popular in Korea right now (I'm inclined to believe BW is), but I'm also inclined to believe that SC2 as more popular on a global scale.
Ahh, willful ignorance.. gotta love it. Starcraft scene revolves mainly around Korea. Without Korean scene foreign scenes could not have existed. Also you do know that Korean scene itself is bigger than foreign scene combined. So calling foreign massive as if foreigners could run without korea is fucking idiotic. I have to admit though, SC2 foreign scene is bigger than BW's. But its what Korean scene actually counts, and BW is way more popular
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On January 30 2012 13:30 Supamang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 06:17 jidolboy wrote:On January 30 2012 06:06 ClutchSC wrote:On January 30 2012 05:28 Hinanawi wrote:On January 30 2012 04:53 ClutchSC wrote:
Second of all, I have to address a large majority of the BW community at large. What the fuck is your problem? Yes, BW has a higher skill cap as a game so far. Yes, the rivalries and games are more defined and can be extremely epic. And yes, the user interface of SC2 is very forgiving. But why, oh why do you have to shit all over SC2 constantly. We're all working towards developing eSports, but whenever I peruse through the BW section, all I see is hating on the SC2 scene; this just shouldn't happen. All that this achieves is the total alienation of a massive fanbase that BW players should be trying to appeal to. This is my request to a vast majority of the BW community; GROW THE FUCK UP. Grow up, so we can make eSports even bigger; SC2 has become the flagship of eSports and as much as you don't want to accept that, you have to. Once the BW community does accept that, we can all move forwards. Who knows, if the SC2 community gets into BW enough, there could even be MLG events that include it but this can only take once the BW community learns to drop the elitist attitude. I can only speak for myself, but I suspect many BW fans feel the same way: We don't give a shit about 'eSports'. We give a shit about competitive Brood War. 'X is hurting ESPORTS' started off as a joke, but I think some of you actually believe this. You actually believe that I'm supposed to support competitive SC2, LoL, Halo, and CoD just because they're video games and therefore 'esports'. You might say "but a lot of people don't take competitive video games seriously, so that's why we all need to band together!", and that would make sense...IF SC2 WAS A GOOD GAME, which it isn't. Games like that only serve to lower the opinion of competitive video games as a whole. So there's the whole cult saying if you say that a game is terrible it's 'hurting eSports' and is taboo. I'm sorry, but I didn't purchase a ticket on this cruise, and if SC2 is really the 'flagship' at the moment then I'd watch out for icebergs and make sure you have enough lifeboats ready on the S.S.ESPORTS. The point you make is a somewhat fair one; however I have to disagree with the point you make about competitive video games. First of all, if you give a shit about competitive BW, you should support competitive eSports. The only way your beloved BW will grow is by tapping into the massive fanbase which has sprung up around SC2. I would disagree with your statement that SC2 isn't a good game, but that is subjective. However, you follow up your subjective statement, with a ridiculous one; saying that games that aren't BW lower the opinion of competitive video games is totally unfounded and ridiculous. All this opinion does is create a vision of elitist BW players which will prevent SC2 fans from taking part in the BW community and watching replays. And if you are looking at this objectively, the BW community has much more growth to experience from working alongside the SC2 community than vice-versa. So all I ask, is that BW players follow the OP's example, and drop the fucking elitist attitude, because yes, I'm going to drop the cliche. BW Elitists are killing eSports. SC2 and Massive Fanbase? I am confused Ahh, willful ignorance.. gotta love it. The world doesn't revolve around Korea man. Doesn't matter what you think about in terms of SC2 vs BW, you can't deny that SC2 has a huge global fan base. I don't know which is more popular in Korea right now (I'm inclined to believe BW is), but I'm also inclined to believe that SC2 as more popular on a global scale.
Chances are those grandmas, toddlers and young ladies in Korea watching Brood War outnumber the whole crowd of Foreign SC2 fans, in case you didn't know 
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On January 30 2012 13:55 ffreakk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 13:30 Supamang wrote:On January 30 2012 06:17 jidolboy wrote:On January 30 2012 06:06 ClutchSC wrote:On January 30 2012 05:28 Hinanawi wrote:On January 30 2012 04:53 ClutchSC wrote:
Second of all, I have to address a large majority of the BW community at large. What the fuck is your problem? Yes, BW has a higher skill cap as a game so far. Yes, the rivalries and games are more defined and can be extremely epic. And yes, the user interface of SC2 is very forgiving. But why, oh why do you have to shit all over SC2 constantly. We're all working towards developing eSports, but whenever I peruse through the BW section, all I see is hating on the SC2 scene; this just shouldn't happen. All that this achieves is the total alienation of a massive fanbase that BW players should be trying to appeal to. This is my request to a vast majority of the BW community; GROW THE FUCK UP. Grow up, so we can make eSports even bigger; SC2 has become the flagship of eSports and as much as you don't want to accept that, you have to. Once the BW community does accept that, we can all move forwards. Who knows, if the SC2 community gets into BW enough, there could even be MLG events that include it but this can only take once the BW community learns to drop the elitist attitude. I can only speak for myself, but I suspect many BW fans feel the same way: We don't give a shit about 'eSports'. We give a shit about competitive Brood War. 'X is hurting ESPORTS' started off as a joke, but I think some of you actually believe this. You actually believe that I'm supposed to support competitive SC2, LoL, Halo, and CoD just because they're video games and therefore 'esports'. You might say "but a lot of people don't take competitive video games seriously, so that's why we all need to band together!", and that would make sense...IF SC2 WAS A GOOD GAME, which it isn't. Games like that only serve to lower the opinion of competitive video games as a whole. So there's the whole cult saying if you say that a game is terrible it's 'hurting eSports' and is taboo. I'm sorry, but I didn't purchase a ticket on this cruise, and if SC2 is really the 'flagship' at the moment then I'd watch out for icebergs and make sure you have enough lifeboats ready on the S.S.ESPORTS. The point you make is a somewhat fair one; however I have to disagree with the point you make about competitive video games. First of all, if you give a shit about competitive BW, you should support competitive eSports. The only way your beloved BW will grow is by tapping into the massive fanbase which has sprung up around SC2. I would disagree with your statement that SC2 isn't a good game, but that is subjective. However, you follow up your subjective statement, with a ridiculous one; saying that games that aren't BW lower the opinion of competitive video games is totally unfounded and ridiculous. All this opinion does is create a vision of elitist BW players which will prevent SC2 fans from taking part in the BW community and watching replays. And if you are looking at this objectively, the BW community has much more growth to experience from working alongside the SC2 community than vice-versa. So all I ask, is that BW players follow the OP's example, and drop the fucking elitist attitude, because yes, I'm going to drop the cliche. BW Elitists are killing eSports. SC2 and Massive Fanbase? I am confused Ahh, willful ignorance.. gotta love it. The world doesn't revolve around Korea man. Doesn't matter what you think about in terms of SC2 vs BW, you can't deny that SC2 has a huge global fan base. I don't know which is more popular in Korea right now (I'm inclined to believe BW is), but I'm also inclined to believe that SC2 as more popular on a global scale. Chances are those grandmas, toddlers and young ladies in Korea watching Brood War outnumber the whole crowd of Foreign SC2 fans, in case you didn't know
Although a lot of SC2 tournies are often mixed crowds like MLG, its pretty obvious SC2 is globally a lot more popular in terms of spectators. Although the fans are a lot less casual than BW ones. If Kespa wasn't retarded they could have used their chance to promote BW globally, but they didn't until it was way too late.
I think BW has succeeded much more, it takes a lot to get over a 100,000 people in a stadium to watch a computer game for such a small country. Where as SC2 has a much larger base to work with, so even though it appeals to a smaller audience, it still gets a larger audience overall. Time will tell anyways whether SC2 can achieve the same globally.
But when it comes to eSports and spectators, the real elephant in the room is LoL.
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EPT
