EPTEverybody should play a little SC2 - Page 18
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On January 30 2012 14:03 Sawamura wrote: So now we are debating which game has the biggest crowds and fan's huh ? I don't know what purpose, and what good a debate about that will do... all has gone up to hell | ||
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Gao Xi
Hong Kong5178 Posts
On January 30 2012 14:03 Sawamura wrote: So now we are debating which game has the biggest crowds and fan's huh ? Well there is nothing more to say. Hinanawi has pretty much said everything. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On January 30 2012 11:26 jidolboy wrote: how about LoL? ( no pun intended :D ) And scene outside of Korea is still smaller than compared to Korea so I wouldn't call SC2 a massive fanbase SC2 has a tiny fanbase in Korea that is slowly growing BW has a MASSIVE fanbase inside Korea that is slowly shrinking. Both scenes are actually struggling quite a bit in Korea, albeit for different reasons. A lot of people like to extrapolate this to say OMG BW IS DOOMED AND NOW SC2 WILL TAKE OVER  , and that's not necessarily true. I think BW will live or die based entirely on BW. SC2 will never and can never kill it. If the BW scene were to die anyway, it would probably move into SC2 just because it's an easier transition than moving into LoL, but there's no reason to SC2 is hurting BW unless you think LoL is hurting BW more (it has a medium and rapidly growing fanbase in Korea). On January 30 2012 11:41 1Eris1 wrote: Depends on your definition of huge. Games like CoD have 100x as many people playing, although not necessarily watching. I believe LoL is actually the biggest in terms of viewer numbers though, they have had something like 200k at tournaments where SC2 only has around 60-70k It comes down to how LoL can hold up without Riot. I was at an interview with the owner of MLG at MLG Providence, and he actually said that the reason MLG features LoL and not DOTA 2 is because Riot gives them money. BW fans like to say SC2 was artificially made by Blizzard, but that's a way bigger factor for LoL/Riot. LoL only very recently came out in Korea, so it's hard to make any judgements, and I don't really know all that much about it anyway. I expect it to be around a while, though. On January 30 2012 12:26 sluggaslamoo wrote:Flash's arrival definitely put a dint in my grand finals watching, we stopped organising meets simply because we no longer thought "who is gonna win", just "how long till Flash pushes out", and everyone would just sigh when Jaedong couldn't defend the first push... 5 times in a row, till Jaedong resorted to just 4 pooling every game and still losing. Same. I really do think Flash is the single biggest reason BW is in such trouble. Yeah, it's great to have a bonjwa, but he's been on top for so long. When I was really into BW, it was "is Jaedong or Flash the best in the world", and the more obvious it was that it was Flash, the less I found myself caring. On January 30 2012 14:06 Blasterion wrote: I don't know what purpose, and what good a debate about that will do... all has gone up to hell Honestly, I find it a much more interesting debate than "my game is better than your game and I have poorly thought out arguments to prove it!". No one ever read an SC2/BW thread and thought "Oh wow, maybe I'm wrong". This conversation is actually kind of interesting (even if it maybe belongs in general) | ||
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puppykiller
United States3126 Posts
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
On January 30 2012 12:26 sluggaslamoo wrote:Flash's arrival definitely put a dint in my grand finals watching, we stopped organising meets simply because we no longer thought "who is gonna win", just "how long till Flash pushes out", and everyone would just sigh when Jaedong couldn't defend the first push... 5 times in a row, till Jaedong resorted to just 4 pooling every game and still losing. On January 30 2012 14:25 Ribbon wrote: Same. I really do think Flash is the single biggest reason BW is in such trouble. Yeah, it's great to have a bonjwa, but he's been on top for so long. When I was really into BW, it was "is Jaedong or Flash the best in the world", and the more obvious it was that it was Flash, the less I found myself caring. You do realize Flash lost to JangBi in the most recent OSL, right? Slaying god in the Ro8, and then going on to win it all against the defending champ in the finals, it was too good. If you read the Yellow "Kong ling is dead' comic, it really made this the greatest OSL ever as he seemingly fulfilled two separate prophecies (also the Legend of the Fall). And then the OSL disappeared and OGN, a supposed professional organization, merely says "early 2012" and effectively says "shut up and watch League of Legends instead". I root against Flash every single game now, but you can't blame him for your own lack of interest in pro BW. If JangBi's OSL didn't move you, I don't know what can. And since then Flash has only played in 9 of nearly 200 BW games. He is undefeated, but higher streaks have come and gone. Really, him always winning stops you from finding that Bogus vs Neo.g_Soulkey game interesting? Seriously? You are welcome to find less interest in BW as time goes on, but it's not Flash's fault. Flash has actually only won 1 of the most recent 4 SLs. It's simply the lack of individual leagues that's the problem, with the death of the MSL and OGN being outright unprofessional, there is no hope on the horizon for the return of the old days. | ||
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crown77
United States157 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
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pyrogenetix
United Arab Emirates5090 Posts
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On January 30 2012 14:41 Crisium wrote: You do realize Flash lost to JangBi in the most recent OSL, right? Slaying god in the Ro8, and then going on to win it all against the defending champ in the finals, it was too good. If you read the Yellow "Kong ling is dead' comic, it really made this the greatest OSL ever as he seemingly fulfilled two separate prophecies (also the Legend of the Fall). And then the OSL disappeared and OGN, a supposed professional organization, merely says "early 2012" and effectively says "shut up and watch League of Legends instead". I root against Flash every single game now, but you can't blame him for your own lack of interest in pro BW. If JangBi's OSL didn't move you, I don't know what can. And since then Flash has only played in 9 of nearly 200 BW games. He is undefeated, but higher streaks have come and gone. Really, him always winning stops you from finding that Bogus vs Neo.g_Soulkey game interesting? Seriously? You are welcome to find less interest in BW as time goes on, but it's not Flash's fault. Flash has actually only won 1 of the most recent 4 SLs. It's simply the lack of individual leagues that's the problem, with the death of the MSL and OGN being outright unprofessional, there is no hope on the horizon for the return of the old days. The recent SL's being when he was doped up on painkillers, practicing only a couple of hours per day, and ready to go to surgery? Jangbi definitely mindgamed Flash for one of the games, but the other ones Flash just played really sloppy. Janbgi finals was amazing, actually all the non-Flash finals were fucking amazing, even the ZvZ finals with Great was amazing compared to the never-ending han bang your dead 3:0 series. Post surgery he hasn't lost a single game, get ready for another round of Flash stomping. Tbh I feel sorry for the guy, I've never seen someone so passionate, and so creative, but his timings are so powerful the games don't end up getting to the point of being exciting. I think its because of how creative and meta Flash is, and how terribly the opponent defends it, you are expecting so much, and then its like "shit, I could have defended better than that". "Oh shit Flash huuuuge WTF army of Valkyries and M&M, Can Jaedong stop this?!... pans back to Jaedongs defense and there's only 6 hydras and no sunkens... are you effing kidding me -____- ...". Honestly who's gonna be excited when there's a really good chance all the games end in 8 minutes because the opponent has been tilted to no end. Its the same when Oov came around, only this time its 100x worse. I really admire Flash as a player, I just don't enjoy watching his games, he dominates in a way that is not that interesting. When Savior or Bisu dominated I'm sure it would have been much more fun to watch because most the games didn't end with a simple snap of the fingers. BW games are still great to watch, and I watch a lot of proleague, I just dodge all the Flash ones unless it has Bisu/Effort/JD in it. Like I said its the grand final watching's only, and obviously if Flash is in it, I have to watch him play. SC2 can't wait for players like Flash to come over, I say be careful what you wish for. If only a majority of people hate 1a deathballs, it would be immediately unanimous if Flash moved over right now.  | ||
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Supamang
United States2298 Posts
On January 30 2012 13:51 jidolboy wrote: Ahh, willful ignorance.. gotta love it. Starcraft scene revolves mainly around Korea. Without Korean scene foreign scenes could not have existed. Also you do know that Korean scene itself is bigger than foreign scene combined. So calling foreign massive as if foreigners could run without korea is fucking idiotic. I have to admit though, SC2 foreign scene is bigger than BW's. But its what Korean scene actually counts, and BW is way more popular Yeah yeah, and without Greece democracy wouldn't have existed either. That sure as fuck doesn't mean they're the greatest democracy in the world right now. Without China gunpowder wouldn't have existed but they sure as fuck aren't the greatest military superpower in the world either. Whatever, you think popularity in Korea is more important and I think global popularity is more important. There's no denying that without Korea Starcraft (both BW and SC2) would not be as influential as it is today, but I'm talking about whats happening now. Anyways, I just thought your denial of SC2s popularity was self-delusional. It has nothing to do with the OP and I don't care about a popularity contest between the two games. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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shaftofpleasure
Korea (North)1375 Posts
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
Ok so once upon a time long long ago (not so long ago maybe 2-3 days) someone made a thread in the SC2 thread that people should try out BW to understand what the culture and everything is about. And how things came about, With the assistance of some troll posters, that thread has been all but a shadow of it's former glory (the OP) so what ended up is that the impression "BW missionary invading on to SC2 hallowed ground shitting on SC2" (which may be true, or may not be true, but somehow it turned out to be that way) Since the elephant in the room editorial didn't raise enough of a shit storm already. Then a poster came along and thought, it would be a good opportunity to make the same mirror thread on the BW forum and "invade" them. (Which may or may not be the genuine intention of the OP) but it's a response post, to that mirror thread. He raised some points, (that didn't really make all that much sense) but composed a reasonably length OP to stand on BW soil heralding, *we're on your land now how you like it* (*) (This view is completely my own). I agree there is little value that BW players get from SC2. And there's greater value for SC2 players to play BW sometimes, there for this OP has little value as there really isn't much BW players can get out of SC2. The overall OP lack a good foundation unlike its counterpart in the SC2 forums, there for the only value of this thread stands as. We're SC2 players on your soil preaching SC2 because you broken the Berlin Wall and preached on ours. the above is purely an interpretation of the OP, my opinion does not represent the official view of SC2, nor TLNY community | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On January 30 2012 16:25 Sawamura wrote: Berlin wall argument again lols, since when starcraft has become a war of ideology . When 2 groups have different ideals conflicts arise. These threads are merely those conflicting ideals presenting themselves | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On January 30 2012 16:27 Blasterion wrote: When 2 groups have different ideals conflicts arise. These threads are merely those conflicting ideals presenting themselves They are not conflicting ideals, you are just twisting the op intention into your own propaganda. There is no way can I relate a damn computer game to a real life politics . It doesn't make sense. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On January 30 2012 16:31 Sawamura wrote: They are not conflicting ideals, you are just twisting the op intention into your own propaganda. There is no way can I relate a damn computer game to a real life politics . It doesn't make sense. I don't see how they aren't I mean obviously the BW community has expressed passionately about their ideals and their relativity to SC2. I mean simply said, the ideals of BW community and SC2 community clash, that's why we have problems with each other. | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On January 30 2012 16:33 Blasterion wrote: I don't see how they aren't I mean obviously the BW community has expressed passionately about their ideals and their relativity to SC2. I mean simply said, the ideals of BW community and SC2 community clash, that's why we have problems with each other. Well If you ask me I didn't sign in to this Bw community club in preaching or spreading our ideals and also what ideals are you talking about, I just watch broodwar for the joy I have in the game . Just like how I don't mind spending hours on the driving range improving my swing and my game sense . | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On January 30 2012 16:41 Sawamura wrote: Well If you ask me I didn't sign in to this Bw community club in preaching or spreading our ideals and also what ideals are you talking about, I just watch broodwar for the joy I have in the game . Just like how I don't mind spending hours on the driving range improving my swing and my game sense . What expectations you have for a game is a type of ideal, The Brood War community has a different kind of ideal competitive gaming in mind than SC2. That presents itself as a form of ideals. Not sure how is that so hard to understand. | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On January 30 2012 16:44 Blasterion wrote: What expectations you have for a game is a type of ideal, The Brood War community has a different kind of ideal competitive gaming in mind than SC2. That presents itself as a form of ideals. Not sure how is that so hard to understand. To be honest I never expected much of sc2 anyway and so if I don't have any expectation of it being some kind of a broodwar clone . Will I fit into your definition of ideals ? . It's a damn computer game, I can't comprehend how any one would have strong feelings of nationalism or extreme passion over such a thing . You win or lose in a game of broodwar or sc2 the world still will go around because in the end it's just a game . | ||
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