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shucklesors
Singapore1176 Posts
On January 28 2012 08:43 KenNage wrote: wow people, i cant really understand from where this relaxing thing comes from. have you ever tried to TVT? is stressing as fuck and i love it. lol bro. you should try BW TvT in that case. AND if you like stress, BW ZvZ for sure. | ||
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KenNage
Chile885 Posts
On January 29 2012 12:34 shucklesors wrote: lol bro. you should try BW TvT in that case. AND if you like stress, BW ZvZ for sure. rofl, im bw player xD | ||
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
 SCBW to SC2's probably a closer game series transition than say... AoE2 -> Empire Earth. But I've noticed that each of them helped me out get better at RTS. | ||
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Starburst
United States108 Posts
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RezChi
Canada2368 Posts
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shucklesors
Singapore1176 Posts
Oh, I'm sorry, 'cause I heard that SC2 TvT is like 'the bomb' and the best matchup to watch and I'm thinking 'Is that like Canata TvT in BW or something?' | ||
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KenNage
Chile885 Posts
On January 29 2012 12:43 RezChi wrote: I went back to play BW after playing sc2 and getting into "master". I played like SHIT. Much worse then before. Went to ICCUP and got a freaken keyboard level. I was usually a straight up D hovering around 1300+ but, now...... this also happened to me, when i went back to bw, i played like crap, it took me a while to get used to bw again, my micro/macro was so below of how it used to be, that since that day i promised to myself to never touch sc2 again v.v | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On January 29 2012 10:46 Sawamura wrote: Well let's say you are approaching broodwar the wrong way . Build order work's to a certain extent but it will not work every time. When I started out as terran my TvP is e- at best, tried out the Flash build but I hated it because I have to play so defensively, tested out midas FD and tweak it a little bit to suit the new style of playing which is getting a faster CC and by the time my cc is up my Tanks will arrive at my natural to deal with the Goon's pressure . Most of the times I don't try to carbon copy what the pro's doing for example oh by 24 supply I must build this rather, I try to get the idea what he is trying to do and figured out the reason he is building that unit or cutting scv's at that particular moment of the game . I usually play by feel rather than " Micro and Macro like a bonjwa" . I try to stay away from Liquipedia, but it's hard to craft a build without a good sense of timings, and without a clock, it's hard to get a good sense of timings. I heard day[9] mention once that BW pros use the minerals in their main as a clock, and I should try that more. I use to have this stack of papers having written details of all the build orders of my games, but in the end did it help me ? Nope I was so busy following the build orders to death that I am not reacting properly to the situation is at hand in front of me . You can't rely on build order to win you games you know ... That lesson, actually, is one I learned from SC2. A lot of the people giving me "advice" on ICCUP were giving me fucking awful advice. Sometimes you just need Booker T to tell you that you macro like a noob, and your micro's all retarded. Also MOTW is basically are voted by the users, some times we get some new maps because we have been playing fighting spirit 1001 times already and if you check this week maps there has been quite a lot of new map's added in to the pool and python is nowhere in the list I guess it's actually fallen off. I don't think I've seen a Python game in a while; it's all Fighting Spirit now. I did play a Tau Cross game today, though. Let me check my gaming profile....since December I've played 12 games on Fighting Spirit 9 games on Python 1 game each on Destination, Othello, and Aztec. (6-18 in total) And I'm not picking maps; I'm playing the games I can get in. My old ICCUP account is 97-275 (;_;) and is a bit more Python-heavy. Well for me, Playing against random player always make me nervous as they will be very cheesy and do some crazy insane strategy or hit me at a weird timing . So yeah I don't usually play with random unless I am in " I Don't give a damn " mode at that time. It's understandable. I am wondering what race are you playing ? Random, and trying to not be cheesy. If my opponent doesn't like me being random, I let him pick. There's a limit to how choosy I can be if I want to get games, since a lot of games are "p only" or somesuch. I'm a lot better with Protoss and Zerg than Terran, though, because proper walling is an enigma wrapped in a mystery wrapped in arbitrary. What's stopping you from playing creatively ? My opponent. If I experiment in SC2 and it's not great, I fall to gold. If I play BW in any way, I get crushed by D+ players looking for D- opponents (fuck those people). It feels like the only way to get good at BW is to spend an hour a day in a Build-Order tester getting the polish down. On January 29 2012 10:54 mbr2321 wrote: a lot of these posts have made the thread a thinly veiled sc2 hate thread :/ I'm fairly confident that there are people in the BW forum who don't actually like BW, and are here for the flamewars  | ||
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Ideas
United States8080 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
My opponent. If I experiment in SC2 and it's not great, I fall to gold. If I play BW in any way, I get crushed by D+ players looking for D- opponents (fuck those people). It feels like the only way to get good at BW is to spend an hour a day in a Build-Order tester getting the polish down. It happen's all the time man, These guy's just love smashing low level opponents and than ending the game calling you a noob T_T. | ||
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YumYumGranola
Canada346 Posts
On January 29 2012 14:11 Sawamura wrote: It happen's all the time man, These guy's just love smashing low level opponents and than ending the game calling you a noob T_T. The funny thing about that though is I had so much less ladder anxiety when I was playing BW compared to when I play SC2. Despite being able to get to D+/C- as Toss consistently I still stuck with Terran despite the fact that it took me forever to get out of D- and above D- I'd lose well over 70% of my games. It was almost like "fuck it, I already know I'm going to lose most of my games, let's just focus on improving". The difference in SC2 is that there's a lot more ways for a worse player to beat a better player which really makes understanding improvement a lot murkier. And this makes me sad  | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
On January 29 2012 14:11 Sawamura wrote: It happen's all the time man, These guy's just love smashing low level opponents and than ending the game calling you a noob T_T. I don't encounter the problem that much, especially when I can host. That being said, Ribbon is right, we don't have enough low level players. Nevertheless, if you just improve enough to get to like C-, you'll get good enough to dick around a bit (cf Konadora <3). Also, I really think you need to have a decent understanding of the game to do this efficiently, not only mechanics. That being saif Ribbon, if you want to dick around during week-ends, just PM (can't host during the week TT), I'm probably a tad better than you, but I need to play more creative and relaxed games in BW^^ | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On January 29 2012 14:11 Sawamura wrote: It happen's all the time man, These guy's just love smashing low level opponents and than ending the game calling you a noob T_T. Yeah, why the hell do people beat me and then get angry at me for losing? They get really really mad when my turrets are too late. On January 29 2012 14:27 corumjhaelen wrote: I don't encounter the problem that much, especially when I can host. That being said, Ribbon is right, we don't have enough low level players. Nevertheless, if you just improve enough to get to like C-, you'll get good enough to dick around a bit (cf Konadora <3). Also, I really think you need to have a decent understanding of the game to do this efficiently, not only mechanics. That being saif Ribbon, if you want to dick around during week-ends, just PM (can't host during the week TT), I'm probably a tad better than you, but I need to play more creative and relaxed games in BW^^ I'm sure BW is really fun when you get good at it, but that's a bit catch-22ish. I'll PM you, though. I wish there were a way to get more low-level people into BW so the learning curve wasn't a brick wall. I try the silly tournaments, but they increasingly seem like a waste of time and money :/ | ||
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
On January 29 2012 06:38 Ribbon wrote: Because SC2 is much less refined that BW, you can design your own builds and have them work pretty well, and that kind of problem-solving is pretty fun for a lot of people. BW doesn't have that, because it's basically solved. If I want to get good at BW, I need to have Liquipedia open on my other screen and just practice it like I'm studying for a test. SC2 lets me dick around a lot more and kind of do my own thing and still be at a Plat-with-some-diamond level. If I tried to experiment on ICCUP, I'd just get crushed because there aren't any "casual" BW fans anymore. It's a very difficult game to get into. Well, that's just a matter of skill really. I know/play against several people who easily dominate me with ridiculous builds and just messing around. I'm like D+ with a C- high and they're around B-ish. Also, just look at B.net attack. Off the top of my head, I remember JD had to play a ZvT on Python using only hydras or something. And he pretty much rofl stomped. IIRC, FBH also did some ridiculous things and still won. It's not like they were playing random scrubs either. | ||
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Snipinpanda
United States1227 Posts
On January 29 2012 19:46 Xenocide_Knight wrote: Well, that's just a matter of skill really. I know/play against several people who easily dominate me with ridiculous builds and just messing around. I'm like D+ with a C- high and they're around B-ish. Also, just look at B.net attack. Off the top of my head, I remember JD had to play a ZvT on Python using only hydras or something. And he pretty much rofl stomped. IIRC, FBH also did some ridiculous things and still won. It's not like they were playing random scrubs either. I've seen C+ zergs get stomped by B/B+ Protosses going scouts. By the same token, I've lost many, many, many to objectively "bad" builds, but they were better players, so I lost. I've also played people that I knew that no matter what I did, they would lose because the difference in skill is so big BW is "solved" in the sense that yeah, at progamer level that there's definite responses to pretty much everything, but everything below that you can do whatever you want and win as long as you have enough skill (having good mechanics, understanding strategy, not easy at all, but lol). Yeah, some builds are better vs other builds, but ultimately, if you're the better player you should win. | ||
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RageCommodore
Germany912 Posts
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1187 Posts
On January 29 2012 19:24 Ribbon wrote: I'm sure BW is really fun when you get good at it, but that's a bit catch-22ish. I'll PM you, though. I wish there were a way to get more low-level people into BW so the learning curve wasn't a brick wall. I try the silly tournaments, but they increasingly seem like a waste of time and money :/ Agreed on the catch 22 part unfortunately. As an example of how the game gets more fun as you get better at it, we look to the vulture, in the hands of an experienced veteran they run around and harass mineral lines, predict maynard paths and pick off workers, pick off workers going to expo, lay mines to scout and restrict troop movement, and aggressively mine in small squads of goons that venture too far looking to clear mines, playing against a good vulture user is an exercise in frustration. In the hands of the average Sub-D player they just hang around the tanks picking of zealots that get into the tank line and maybe lay a few mines, not very exciting. The same pattern can be seen with reaver+shuttle, defilers, mutalisks etc. They are exciting because of what good players can do with them, but to the average beginner they are fairly standard RTS units you a-move with and in some cases arn't even very good at that. I think a part of the difficulty of getting more low level people into bw is the fact that the game is more fun as you get better. Perhaps what uniquely sets bw apart from other RTSs is the depth of the metagame and the raw power of some units IF USED WELL. But when it gets to low level play, the shortage of mechanics and understanding really makes bw comparable to just another RTSs for those playing it.There are many many RTSs out there with comparable appeal over bw at low levels that doesn't require you to get better (eg graphics/more micro oriented play), bw being more than a decade old really struggles to pull in the numbers because of that. It's not like you need to get all THAT good at bw to start to see the appeal, even at D/D+ level you can already experience some of the subtleties that are at the core of bw appeal, but lets face it anyone short of a prodigy picking up bw for the first time even if they have lots of prior RTS experience is pretty much on an express train headed for keyboard level on iccup, the average D level bwer is a pretty solid player already. | ||
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puppykiller
United States3126 Posts
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1187 Posts
On January 29 2012 23:28 puppykiller wrote: so the "everyone should play a little sc2" thread in the BW section is turning into the "everyone should play a little BW" (but still in the BW section lol). Well thats not really suprising, this whole topic is fairly ill advised tbh Almost all BW players HAVE already played SC2, remember when SC2 beta was still coming out and we were all excited, when 'Hell it's about time' actually meant something? When SC2 was supposed to be the sequel to SC rather than some random well made, well polished RTS that just happens to have the same name? Who were the most desperate to get their hands on a beta key? Yeah we were.... | ||
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dementrio
678 Posts
especially since now sc2 has been out for a bit, and people are starting to do stuff like micro, there's less of a gap if know how to sc2 and want to learn bw. | ||
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