Well, I was starting to lean towards Bisu as a possible #3 candidate, but I think that's out the window. Although that was a clever play by Tyson, I feel like Bisu should have realized something was wrong that Tyson was displaying only 1 gate and no robo at that point. Moving out at that time was a lapse in judgment.
I feel like #3 has to go to either Stats or Soulkey at this point. Stats over Bisu will probably upset the Bisu fanboys, but I just feel like he's been proving himself against tougher competition.
At that point things get muddied. #5... could it be Last? I'm tempted to say he's earned it, but I want to see him prove himself at TvZ. Just because he is looking solid in 2 matches doesn't mean that he's solid in all 3. Well, if we're going by results alone, then he'd be top 4 no question (Last being 8-1, +7, I would probably place below Soulkey 9-3, +6, on the grounds that Soulkey has proven himself against all 3 races).
That would put Bisu at #6.
Effort is a maybe at #7. His loss to Mini puts a damper on my excitement for a higher place on the ranking, although in fairness Effort played well that game. It's just that Mini also played really well and rode the current metagame advantage.
Bogus I can then see at #8. It's hard to argue him higher with his TvT in the shape it is, but it's kind of stupid to put him lower when he's demolished such strong competition.
Stork can follow at #9. You could argue that he deserves better, I suppose, but his wins this round really haven't been against the best and when you combine that with the way he petered out as R1 wore on... well, I have hesitations about putting him above the guys I listed higher.
I don't know who deserves 10. Best and Kal both losing makes it harder. And even if Jaedong won, he's still only 2-3 on the round and his 2 wins were a 5 pool and one of the scrappiest scrapfests ever. I have serious reservations about giving it to a map sniper (e.g. Brave). Turn is a possibility.
I'd actually trust him overall than BeSt or Kal right now, especially as BeSt has traded his ability to own terran for an ability to own zerg and still lol at other match-ups
On February 05 2012 17:18 Mortality wrote: Bogus I can then see at #8. It's hard to argue him higher with his TvT in the shape it is, but it's kind of stupid to put him lower when he's demolished such strong competition.
Could you enlighten me what exactly makes Bogus so bad at TvT that he can't be considered higher?
On February 05 2012 17:18 Mortality wrote: Bogus I can then see at #8. It's hard to argue him higher with his TvT in the shape it is, but it's kind of stupid to put him lower when he's demolished such strong competition.
Could you enlighten me what exactly makes Bogus so bad at TvT that he can't be considered higher?
Well he's hardly played it at all lately, but he's on a 3 game slide and the last two were Airforce Ace players.
On February 05 2012 17:18 Mortality wrote: Bogus I can then see at #8. It's hard to argue him higher with his TvT in the shape it is, but it's kind of stupid to put him lower when he's demolished such strong competition.
Could you enlighten me what exactly makes Bogus so bad at TvT that he can't be considered higher?
Well he's hardly played it at all lately, but he's on a 3 game slide and the last two were Airforce Ace players.
I guess that's a valid argument, but similar accusations could be pointed towards other higher ranked players. Unlike a certain Protoss, Bogus never had an advantage he botched in TvT.
On February 05 2012 17:18 Mortality wrote: Bogus I can then see at #8. It's hard to argue him higher with his TvT in the shape it is, but it's kind of stupid to put him lower when he's demolished such strong competition.
Could you enlighten me what exactly makes Bogus so bad at TvT that he can't be considered higher?
Did you watch his 3 TvT games this season? Words cannot describe, you just must see it for yourself.
I again find myself mostly agreeing with Mortality's assessment of the 10 hottest players right now. The order of Effort-Bogus-Stork is iffy, but for now that's a fair ranking (we could see Stork and Bogus up to 2 more times, so who knows how they prove themselves).
#10 is a big ? right now. Best is out of the contention as his team is done and he didn't quite prove himself. Besides that, I guess the final games of the round will determine it, and I really have no idea who I'm leaning toward.
On February 05 2012 17:18 Mortality wrote: Bogus I can then see at #8. It's hard to argue him higher with his TvT in the shape it is, but it's kind of stupid to put him lower when he's demolished such strong competition.
Could you enlighten me what exactly makes Bogus so bad at TvT that he can't be considered higher?
Did you watch his 3 TvT games this season? Words cannot describe, you just must see it for yourself.
You see, that's just it. I'm biased and I'd like to change that. If you could point towards certain flaws in decision making, micro, or overall macro, I'd be satisfied.
Bogus vs Iris wasn't all that terrible, but he needed to prove himself after the two TvT losses in Round 1. But he could not do so, and in my opinion it's because he didn't try to compensate for any advantage Iris had, while Iris always tried to better himself in every aspect of the game.
Early game:
At the start he lost an SCV-SCV fight when scouting, when instead he should have gone into the main when it was obvious he would lose. So he didn't get to scout inside Iris' base. Though he knows that Iris didn't 1 Rax FE like he did, so Iris likely has the tech and army advantage (which he does). But Bogus doesn't try to fix this in any way, and floats his rax giving him even less of an army (Iris landed it, and made more Marines, smartly trying to capitalize on his army advantage). Iris lands the rax and makes even MORE marines in Bogus' natural while Bogus just floats there. One player is clearly trying to get the most out of their money here, and it's not Bogus.
Bogus' Wraiths save him, and he uses them to snipe SCVs. But Iris just smashes through his army. When all is said and done and both have lost many units, Iris is ahead by only 7 supply at 11:20. Exactly two minutes later, Iris is ahead by 30 supply. Iris smartly used high ground and had much better macro, while Bogus' Wraiths all dissolved. Iris is on a third, Bogus is not. Bogus carelessly loses a few tanks to mines outside his own base. Bogus then drops the main, killing only two SCVs. He gets some good Vulture harass at the 3rd, and gets his own third under way.
Iris gets a 4th, and denies Bogus' 4th with a Vulture. Bogus could have done that same, but completely abandoned Drop play. If you don't have Wraiths, you need drops in TvT. Iris knows this, and successfully does drop harassment. This is the key lesson of the game, if you don't have Wraiths, you need drops in TvT. Bogus now finds himself at the mercy of Iris' plentiful drop ships, which really damage his main. Bogus really dropped the ball on this. Wraiths, or Drops ships, this is modern TvT. Bogus made a few Wraiths early on, but then mostly stopped. He made a couple dropships, but then mostly stopped. Iris had a bigger economy and army for most of the game, and you need mobility to subvert this. Instead Bogus ceded economy, army, and mobility to Iris and it was all over.
Ok, so Bogus did pretty bad with his 1 Rax FE against a 1 base timing. What was Bogus' attempt at nearly the opposite? (when he did 1 base against 1 Fac FE):
Yeah. Not pretty. Actually, pretty bad.
Then this game:
Piano goes 1 Fact FE, Bogus goes 111 one base. Piano comes with superior vulture numbers (off of an FE vs 1 base??) and kills Bogus' ground army, while Bogus' doesn't micro his Wraith and has it kill a floating Rax while it could have been harassing SCVs in Piano's Goliathless base. Oops. Before you know it, Piano's earlier expo kicks in and his superior army defeats Bogus (who ultimately only killed a few SCVs with Wraiths).
In the first two games of the season (Leta, Piano) Bogus proves he can't play 1 base. So he tries to 1 Rax FE, and proves he can't handle defend it or properly play a mobile Terran.
Maybe he'll do better with a mirror build match, but so far he just can't handle this matchup.
On February 06 2012 02:25 FlaShFTW wrote: FlaSh #1. As usual. I didn't know it was possible for a 8 minute TvT without some1 just bumrushing the other ^.^
Stats maybe back up to #2? Maybe #3?
Bisu/Fanta/BeSt/Jaedong still up there as usual.
TvT is not so boring these days. The era of map-split-into-mass-BC is over. Sure that sometimes does happen still, but it's not common anymore.
No way is anyone other than Fantasy #2. Just no way.
And Best is on a 4 game loss streak and is struggling horribly against competent T/P opponents. Admittedly the players he's losing to are under consideration for a PR spot, but that's all the more reason why someone like Kal or Turn... or even Jaehoon... deserve the spot over him.
I'll give Best credit for his PvZ (never thought I'd say that), but until he gets his act together in PvT/PvP he's not PR worthy.
On February 06 2012 02:25 FlaShFTW wrote: FlaSh #1. As usual. I didn't know it was possible for a 8 minute TvT without some1 just bumrushing the other ^.^
Stats maybe back up to #2? Maybe #3?
Bisu/Fanta/BeSt/Jaedong still up there as usual.
There's no way fantasy isn't #2 right now. He even has the same record as Flash this month with roughly equivalently skilled opponents (stork TvP SkyHigh TvT for fanta, JD and Effort for Flash)
On February 06 2012 02:25 FlaShFTW wrote: FlaSh #1. As usual. I didn't know it was possible for a 8 minute TvT without some1 just bumrushing the other ^.^
Stats maybe back up to #2? Maybe #3?
Bisu/Fanta/BeSt/Jaedong still up there as usual.
TvT is not so boring these days. The era of map-split-into-mass-BC is over. Sure that sometimes does happen still, but it's not common anymore.
No way is anyone other than Fantasy #2. Just no way.
And Best is on a 4 game loss streak and is struggling horribly against competent T/P opponents. Admittedly the players he's losing to are under consideration for a PR spot, but that's all the more reason why someone like Kal or Turn... or even Jaehoon... deserve the spot over him.
I'll give Best credit for his PvZ (never thought I'd say that), but until he gets his act together in PvT/PvP he's not PR worthy.
I'm up for amending TLPD to make all losses to Flash not affect a player's overall record.
On February 06 2012 02:25 FlaShFTW wrote: FlaSh #1. As usual. I didn't know it was possible for a 8 minute TvT without some1 just bumrushing the other ^.^
Stats maybe back up to #2? Maybe #3?
Bisu/Fanta/BeSt/Jaedong still up there as usual.
TvT is not so boring these days. The era of map-split-into-mass-BC is over. Sure that sometimes does happen still, but it's not common anymore.
No way is anyone other than Fantasy #2. Just no way.
And Best is on a 4 game loss streak and is struggling horribly against competent T/P opponents. Admittedly the players he's losing to are under consideration for a PR spot, but that's all the more reason why someone like Kal or Turn... or even Jaehoon... deserve the spot over him.
I'll give Best credit for his PvZ (never thought I'd say that), but until he gets his act together in PvT/PvP he's not PR worthy.
I'm up for amending TLPD to make all losses to Flash not affect a player's overall record.
On February 06 2012 02:25 FlaShFTW wrote: FlaSh #1. As usual. I didn't know it was possible for a 8 minute TvT without some1 just bumrushing the other ^.^
Stats maybe back up to #2? Maybe #3?
Bisu/Fanta/BeSt/Jaedong still up there as usual.
There's no way fantasy isn't #2 right now. He even has the same record as Flash this month with roughly equivalently skilled opponents (stork TvP SkyHigh TvT for fanta, JD and Effort for Flash)
Skyhigh is not good at tvt anymore, at all. He was very, very, very good until the 09-10 proleague ended in September of 2010. Since then he has gone 4-11 in TvT.
On February 06 2012 02:25 FlaShFTW wrote: FlaSh #1. As usual. I didn't know it was possible for a 8 minute TvT without some1 just bumrushing the other ^.^
Stats maybe back up to #2? Maybe #3?
Bisu/Fanta/BeSt/Jaedong still up there as usual.
There's no way fantasy isn't #2 right now. He even has the same record as Flash this month with roughly equivalently skilled opponents (stork TvP SkyHigh TvT for fanta, JD and Effort for Flash)
Skyhigh is not good at tvt anymore, at all. He was very, very, very good until the 09-10 proleague ended in September of 2010. Since then he has gone 4-11 in TvT.
That record is deceptive. If you consider the caliber of competition and watch the games in question, he should still be regarded as at least a "low A" in TvT.
Record alone isn't everything. I remember when people were saying JD couldn't ZvT anymore back in late 2010 because he was 3-7 in his last 10 games... ALL of which were against Flash or Light played on maps that had a Terran bias. *head hits desk*
On February 06 2012 02:25 FlaShFTW wrote: FlaSh #1. As usual. I didn't know it was possible for a 8 minute TvT without some1 just bumrushing the other ^.^
Stats maybe back up to #2? Maybe #3?
Bisu/Fanta/BeSt/Jaedong still up there as usual.
TvT is not so boring these days. The era of map-split-into-mass-BC is over. Sure that sometimes does happen still, but it's not common anymore.
No way is anyone other than Fantasy #2. Just no way.
And Best is on a 4 game loss streak and is struggling horribly against competent T/P opponents. Admittedly the players he's losing to are under consideration for a PR spot, but that's all the more reason why someone like Kal or Turn... or even Jaehoon... deserve the spot over him.
I'll give Best credit for his PvZ (never thought I'd say that), but until he gets his act together in PvT/PvP he's not PR worthy.
I'm up for amending TLPD to make all losses to Flash not affect a player's overall record.
Now Effort isn't doing as badly!
can we do that for every game that flash plays just to auto=win? even if he loses?
EPT
