EPTPower Rank Discussion Thread - Page 23
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Elroi
Sweden5617 Posts
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On February 08 2012 16:15 Iplaythings wrote: People also did that in times of when Fantasy was underperforming, remember february last year with Flash / Light / Sea at the 1 / 2 / 3.. Stats is performing better than stork and he is more well rounded than Bisu. Without the PL people woulda talked of Bisu lastyear as the mostslumping person along with Free and Kal last year. I think you mean Feb 2010, and being ranked top 3 on the PR on one particular month doesn't really mean all that much in the grand scheme of things. Back in the days before PL, tournaments mostly started at the Ro16, but there were more of them. It wasn't just OSL and MSL, although those two were already the most prestigious by the time PL got going. So it's hard to say exactly where Bisu would have ended up in the rankings. | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
Stats at #2 makes me happy :3 | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
That team has way to many players (yet did poorly in Round 2). Those players all have winning records, but are seen so infrequenly that it is hard to judge. CJ is done for the round, so Movie and Leta only played in 3 of their teams 7 matches that round. 3 games is really not enough to rank someone who did not make the previous PR, unless they go 3-0 over fairly good competition (such as Turn did). That's the price to pay for being a member of CJ Entus. If Movie wants to be a star he should join the Air Force. Effort played in 4 games. He also played in 6 games last round, compared to Movie and Leta who played in 4 that round. That's enough for effort, but Movie, no, imo. Though I really like his play so far, and think he should get a CBNC at the very least (and I wouldn't crucify Flamewheel for giving him a spot, I just think he can't make a name for himself if he's gonna play in a minority of his team's matches). | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
I'm pretty sure the only players to have played every game so far are Bisu and Stork. | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
 I'm not sure how your first line applies to Movie. He played 4 games last round, and went 2-2. That's nothing special, especially considering his two wins: PvT wins over Sea and Light are basically auto-wins this season. He didn't even get a CBNC for this ranking. So I agree with you completely, which is why I said 3 games is not enough unless you got a spot on last rank or are undefeated (or maybe destroy Flash). I just can't see Movie going from no consideration in the last PR, goes 2-1, and suddenly makes the top 10. But if he does, I won't be mad or anything, as I say he's definitely a top 15 player this season. | ||
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VGhost
United States3621 Posts
1. Flash (10-0) 2. fantasy (9-1) 3. Neo.G_SoulKey (9-3) 4. Last (8-2) 5. Stork (9-4) 6. Stats (8-3) 7. Bisu (9-5) 8. Jaedong (7-5) 9. TurN (4-0) 10. BeSt (7-6) The next three are EffOrt (6-4), Leta (5-3), BaBy (5-4), followed by Brave, Crazy-Hydra, and Calm (all at 4-2). Then we get into non-winning records or not as many games (or both), the exception being Movie's 4-3. All the usual disclaimers about pure stats, not taking game quality or opponents into account, etc. etc. apply, probably double since this isn't even an analysis just the second thing I worked up to start to approximate quality. On the other hand, I do expect the PR and CNBC to basically draw from that top sixteen, with possible exceptions for these players: Hydra (?), Jangbi (??), Movie (?), Bogus (???). | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
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Release
United States4397 Posts
On February 10 2012 12:06 VGhost wrote: + Show Spoiler + I was wondering how players' (overall) records broke down, so I ran a stupid-simple sort (win^2/games) on current records, which produced the following top ten over the PL season so far: 1. Flash (10-0) 2. fantasy (9-1) 3. Neo.G_SoulKey (9-3) 4. Last (8-2) 5. Stork (9-4) 6. Stats (8-3) 7. Bisu (9-5) 8. Jaedong (7-5) 9. TurN (4-0) 10. BeSt (7-6) The next three are EffOrt (6-4), Leta (5-3), BaBy (5-4), followed by Brave, Crazy-Hydra, and Calm (all at 4-2). Then we get into non-winning records or not as many games (or both), the exception being Movie's 4-3. All the usual disclaimers about pure stats, not taking game quality or opponents into account, etc. etc. apply, probably double since this isn't even an analysis just the second thing I worked up to start to approximate quality. On the other hand, I do expect the PR and CNBC to basically draw from that top sixteen, with possible exceptions for these players: Hydra (?), Jangbi (??), Movie (?), Bogus (???). I think putting turn above jaedong and bisu would be better. Turn just hasn't been given enough chances. On February 10 2012 12:35 Mortality wrote: Why win^2? So that people with a good number of wins get recognized over people who has 1-0 | ||
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Mirabel_
United States1768 Posts
On February 10 2012 12:06 VGhost wrote: I was wondering how players' (overall) records broke down, so I ran a stupid-simple sort (win^2/games) on current records, which produced the following top ten over the PL season so far: 1. Flash (10-0) 2. fantasy (9-1) 3. Neo.G_SoulKey (9-3) 4. Last (8-2) 5. Stork (9-4) 6. Stats (8-3) 7. Bisu (9-5) 8. Jaedong (7-5) 9. TurN (4-0) 10. BeSt (7-6) The next three are EffOrt (6-4), Leta (5-3), BaBy (5-4), followed by Brave, Crazy-Hydra, and Calm (all at 4-2). Then we get into non-winning records or not as many games (or both), the exception being Movie's 4-3. All the usual disclaimers about pure stats, not taking game quality or opponents into account, etc. etc. apply, probably double since this isn't even an analysis just the second thing I worked up to start to approximate quality. On the other hand, I do expect the PR and CNBC to basically draw from that top sixteen, with possible exceptions for these players: Hydra (?), Jangbi (??), Movie (?), Bogus (???). Using the Elo system the actual top 10 are 1.  Flash2. Fantasy--------------- 3.  Neo.G_Soulkey4. Last5. TurN6.  Stork7. Stats8. Bisu--------------- 9. Crazy-Hydra10. ShineAlso of note are three map-specific 4-0s. Flash and ZerO have won four games and remained undefeated on Electric Circuit, and Soulkey has gone 4-0 on Sniper Ridge. I think ZerO is CBNC material until he loses on that map. | ||
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pvzvt
Israel2097 Posts
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dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
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WTFTerran
Russian Federation286 Posts
flash fantasy bogus leta baby top 5 T: bisu stats movie stork jangbi top 5 Z: Jaedong SK hydra effort zero nice results i think | ||
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baubo
China3370 Posts
Given how few games there are, I really feel just some combination of record and watching actual play would be enough. | ||
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Mirabel_
United States1768 Posts
On February 10 2012 14:06 baubo wrote: ELO works badly with small sample sizes. While it's true that any measurement suffers with lack of sample size, ELO imo suffers more than most. Given how few games there are, I really feel just some combination of record and watching actual play would be enough. True, I was only addenduming his point with that post. My actual opinion is in the more relevant current power rank commentary. | ||
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VGhost
United States3621 Posts
On February 10 2012 13:23 pvzvt wrote: dont forget jaehoon is 5-2 Much as I'd love to see Jaeoon on the PR again, he's 5-6 overall and at only *4-2 since the last PR... I'm not sure I could justify that, but flamewheel's welcome to try. On February 10 2012 12:35 Mortality wrote: Why win^2? It was my guess at trying to balance games vs win-rate. I'm not trying to say it's perfect, but for something stupidly easy to calculate it seemed to do an okay job. | ||
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Dakkas
2550 Posts
He deserves a CBNC | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
Here's what I'm feeling. The top 2 cannot be questioned at the moment, imo: 1. Flash - Don't even try to argue this one. 2. Fantasy - Ditto. The rest have some leeway, but here's my picks: 3/4 - Soulkey or Stats (whichever order) 5 - Bisu 6/7 - Last or Stork (whichever order) 8/9/10/CBNC - Brave, Bogus, Effort, Jaedong, Jaehoon, Turn (whichever order) Maaaayyybe CBNC (and a very weak chance at #10) - Best, Leta, Movie Bisu may have an argument for #3 as well, but I'm not sure I really felt much from him this round, though his record was very good of course. Last kinda faltered in his TvT aura and although Stork went only 4-3 this round (as did Last), but he did play Flash and Fantasy, so what's a poor toss to do? I could see either having a good argument to be placed over the other. Jaedong is getting the W's recently, so I'm fine with him in the top 10 if there's good rational for it. Though Jaehoon makes a very strong case, and probably should make the top 10 unless his reputation precedes him. I'm not sure how much consideration Brave has been given, but he has redeemed himself for his fail game against Hydra last round. Pure W/L he went 4-1 this round which is impressive, but his competition was certainly not the strongest. | ||
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Fishmalk
74 Posts
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