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On February 06 2012 08:16 Mortality wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 07:18 Fishmalk wrote:On February 06 2012 05:57 Count9 wrote:On February 06 2012 02:25 FlaShFTW wrote:
FlaSh #1. As usual. I didn't know it was possible for a 8 minute TvT without some1 just bumrushing the other ^.^
Stats maybe back up to #2? Maybe #3?
Bisu/Fanta/BeSt/Jaedong still up there as usual. There's no way fantasy isn't #2 right now. He even has the same record as Flash this month with roughly equivalently skilled opponents (stork TvP SkyHigh TvT for fanta, JD and Effort for Flash) Skyhigh is not good at tvt anymore, at all. He was very, very, very good until the 09-10 proleague ended in September of 2010. Since then he has gone 4-11 in TvT. That record is deceptive. If you consider the caliber of competition and watch the games in question, he should still be regarded as at least a "low A" in TvT. Record alone isn't everything. I remember when people were saying JD couldn't ZvT anymore back in late 2010 because he was 3-7 in his last 10 games... ALL of which were against Flash or Light played on maps that had a Terran bias. *head hits desk*
Yeah... Skyhigh played a monstrous TvT against some one this season.. I think it was against Mind.
Edit: yeah it was Mind. He also looked incredible against Fanta the first half of the game.
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Flash strikes again... wtf hes so imba.
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That's because somebody forgot to tell Flash that bonjwa mode is supposed to come to an end and a new generation is supposed to eventually take over. Flash is unimpressed by the new generation.
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On February 06 2012 08:16 Mortality wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 07:18 Fishmalk wrote:On February 06 2012 05:57 Count9 wrote:On February 06 2012 02:25 FlaShFTW wrote:
FlaSh #1. As usual. I didn't know it was possible for a 8 minute TvT without some1 just bumrushing the other ^.^
Stats maybe back up to #2? Maybe #3?
Bisu/Fanta/BeSt/Jaedong still up there as usual. There's no way fantasy isn't #2 right now. He even has the same record as Flash this month with roughly equivalently skilled opponents (stork TvP SkyHigh TvT for fanta, JD and Effort for Flash) Skyhigh is not good at tvt anymore, at all. He was very, very, very good until the 09-10 proleague ended in September of 2010. Since then he has gone 4-11 in TvT. That record is deceptive. If you consider the caliber of competition and watch the games in question, he should still be regarded as at least a "low A" in TvT. Record alone isn't everything. I remember when people were saying JD couldn't ZvT anymore back in late 2010 because he was 3-7 in his last 10 games... ALL of which were against Flash or Light played on maps that had a Terran bias. *head hits desk*
The competition:
Skyhigh beat Reality, Mind, Really, and Fantasy once each.
Skyhigh lost to Light, Fantasy, Sharp, Baby, Sea, Honsin, Bogus, Mind, and Flashx2.
This competition is hardly comparable to JD playing flash and light eighty times inn a row and you know it. An A-teamer should have done better at his specialty matchup.
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On February 06 2012 16:25 Fishmalk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 08:16 Mortality wrote:On February 06 2012 07:18 Fishmalk wrote:On February 06 2012 05:57 Count9 wrote:On February 06 2012 02:25 FlaShFTW wrote:
FlaSh #1. As usual. I didn't know it was possible for a 8 minute TvT without some1 just bumrushing the other ^.^
Stats maybe back up to #2? Maybe #3?
Bisu/Fanta/BeSt/Jaedong still up there as usual. There's no way fantasy isn't #2 right now. He even has the same record as Flash this month with roughly equivalently skilled opponents (stork TvP SkyHigh TvT for fanta, JD and Effort for Flash) Skyhigh is not good at tvt anymore, at all. He was very, very, very good until the 09-10 proleague ended in September of 2010. Since then he has gone 4-11 in TvT. That record is deceptive. If you consider the caliber of competition and watch the games in question, he should still be regarded as at least a "low A" in TvT. Record alone isn't everything. I remember when people were saying JD couldn't ZvT anymore back in late 2010 because he was 3-7 in his last 10 games... ALL of which were against Flash or Light played on maps that had a Terran bias. *head hits desk* The competition: Skyhigh beat Reality, Mind, Really, and Fantasy once each. Skyhigh lost to Light, Fantasy, Sharp, Baby, Sea, Honsin, Bogus, Mind, and Flashx2. This competition is hardly comparable to JD playing flash and light eighty times inn a row and you know it. An A-teamer should have done better at his specialty matchup.
I never said it was. JD at 3-7 was still S-class. I labeled SkyHigh "low A at least."
And watch the games before commenting.
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Is there no January power rank?
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On February 08 2012 06:36 GolemMadness wrote:
Is there no January power rank?
In case you mean february then no.
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Well, released in February, but about January...
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Round 2 ends on the 11th. So that's my guess for the next PR. Round 3 starts the next day, but honestly Flamewheel should be able to put together a PR pretty quickly since he can already have a good idea of where he wants to place players give or a take a few spots.
So Bogus' latest TvT was probably his best this season yet, but regrettably he got the loss thanks to Turn's totally awesome push. Meanwhile, Stork continues to do well in PvP, so my 7-8-9 order of choice now has Stork a clear favorite ahead of Bogus for ranking. Not sure about Stork vs Effort for the higher spot yet, but possibly Stork ahead at the moment (and Stork could rise even higher if he shows his true form on the 11th vs KT). Turn for #10, anyone?
Now normally I would hardly hold Last's loss against him, as it was a very obvious BO (and Build placement) loss, but those four idle SCVs gave me flashbacks to Jaedong. And Last was one-basing, so there's no excuse. Yes, he still would have lost the game. But, imo, it shows Last can succumb to nervous pressure. Should that game negatively affect his ranking?
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I was already considering Turn for #10 anyway, so yes. And Stork over Bogus now... yes.
The thing I'm thinking about Last is... we've only seen his TvZ once but I was thoroughly unimpressed. I was watching that game against Action last night and I couldn't help but get the sense that Last was totally unprepared to play a Zerg, so he just went through the motions of a normal TvZ even when it was clear that Action was not playing entirely conventionally. When you make vultures like that it's to counter the threat of backstab while you're expanding again and/or switching to factory tech, yet Last took far too long to do either. If he wanted to persist in 1 factory off 2 base for so long then he should have made tanks first so that he could press Action either at his natural or his third, abusing the high ground on Jade to his advantage. Increasing to pour on vults and mnm when all he can do is camp outside Action's bases is kind of, well, dumb.
So normally I'd be inclined to just give him a freebie loss considering how well he's proven his TvT, but I'm trying to imagine if Bogus had played only 1 TvT and all the rest TvZ/TvP and Last played 4 TvZ with the rest TvT/TvP, who would really have the better record? Not clear. I'd like to see Last's TvZ again.
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On February 06 2012 10:05 Mortality wrote:
That's because somebody forgot to tell Flash that bonjwa mode is supposed to come to an end and a new generation is supposed to eventually take over. Flash is unimpressed by the new generation.
I would actually say there is no new generation. The talent that came into BW the last 12-18 months was quiet poor in my opinion, and given SC2, this probably is not going to change.
Still impressive that Flash seems to still get better. I think without having to worry about ACE-matches (and therefore only preparing 1-2maps a week), sniping has become nearly impossible and his superior abilities just carry him to his ridiculous PL record.
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On February 08 2012 09:40 Malinor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 10:05 Mortality wrote:
That's because somebody forgot to tell Flash that bonjwa mode is supposed to come to an end and a new generation is supposed to eventually take over. Flash is unimpressed by the new generation. I would actually say there is no new generation. The talent that came into BW the last 12-18 months was quiet poor in my opinion, and given SC2, this probably is not going to change.
Hard to say: I would buy the argument that no one besides KHAN and SKT has displayed much interest in continuing to find effective new players, and I'm not even sure about SKT at this point. CJ probably has Another Zerg around somewhere (Where?) and BByong has impressed occasionally, but we've not seen much from either. Beyond that... yeah.
But on the other hand, the newer players aren't worse than Flash and maybe Jaedong: Bisu still probably has the potential to be better but isn't displaying it now. But look at the rest of the old guard: Light may have his stellar TvZ and good TvT, but there's the nagging feeling Bogus (say) is a more complete player. Soulkey has been (at least arguably) better than Jaedong so far this year. Sea is flat out bad right now; free is worse; Calm struggles; the best Protoss atm is Stats by about a mile (and then Jangbi... I guess?). Stork barely had a winning record last year and doesn't look better this.
Sure, Flash remains the scene's only genius, but in a hypothetical Flash-less world we're looking at ZerO and Movie having titles; Hydra has one anyway (thanks to MVP iirc). And I think I agree with your forecast in a world where SC2 is getting the hype (and maybe the money - I can't tell about the Korean scene). But I feel like you're selling the talent that is there short.
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Flash was eliminated by Classic and Ssak the season that Hydra got his title. The MVP loss was in a bo5 that Flash won 3-1. It was a big deal because MVP won the first set, with the remaining 4 sets played on a separate day.
Hydra was also eliminated from Flash the next MSL, where he probably would have taken the gold again because his ZvZ was best in the world at the time.
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Yeah, maybe I am selling the talent that is out there short. Maybe it is just the lack of a really S-class type of player in there that makes me frustrated with the new generation. Baby couldn't deliver what we hoped. I think the best player that emerged during the last 18months was Soulkey, and then Bogus and Stats (with emerged I don't mean that their first appearence as a rookie was during that timeframe). I don't believe that Bogus actually has it in him to become a really dominating player, same with Stats. Soulkey is the only one I really feel could go all the way.
Some A-class players have emerged (like Turn and Brave for Samsung), but all in all I feel in a league with only seven real teams, now washed up players like Free shouldn't even get ,much playtime anymore. And Air Force is doing too well, which I basically attribute to the lack of quality in the other teams (only 7th place, but 5-7 is a 'good' record). I am just now looking at the actual SPL newspost, and so many names have been around for several years now. I just feel there was not enough turn-over the last 2 seasons.
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On February 08 2012 06:36 GolemMadness wrote:
Is there no January power rank?
You mean February?
February Power Rank is already out actually.
FEBRUARY 2012 POWER RANK:
+ Show Spoiler +1. Flash
2. Let's be honest, it doesn't really matter who from here onward.
+ Show Spoiler +ok jk, but you get the idea :p
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On February 08 2012 09:57 VGhost wrote:
But on the other hand, the newer players aren't worse than Flash and maybe Jaedong: Bisu still probably has the potential to be better but isn't displaying it now. But look at the rest of the old guard: Light may have his stellar TvZ and good TvT, but there's the nagging feeling Bogus (say) is a more complete player. Soulkey has been (at least arguably) better than Jaedong so far this year. Sea is flat out bad right now; free is worse; Calm struggles; the best Protoss atm is Stats by about a mile (and then Jangbi... I guess?). Stork barely had a winning record last year and doesn't look better this.
It's statement like these that makes me miss the OSL/MSL even more. If only Sea had prospered in the days of no SL, we just might be talking about him like the 2nd best terran to exist on the planet.
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I don't think Stork is playing that badly this season. However, like Bisu, he is always sent out early in the match and gets really easy match ups. I don't get why January/Park don't send their best players later like how KT does with Flash?
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On February 08 2012 14:52 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 09:57 VGhost wrote:
But on the other hand, the newer players aren't worse than Flash and maybe Jaedong: Bisu still probably has the potential to be better but isn't displaying it now. But look at the rest of the old guard: Light may have his stellar TvZ and good TvT, but there's the nagging feeling Bogus (say) is a more complete player. Soulkey has been (at least arguably) better than Jaedong so far this year. Sea is flat out bad right now; free is worse; Calm struggles; the best Protoss atm is Stats by about a mile (and then Jangbi... I guess?). Stork barely had a winning record last year and doesn't look better this. It's statement like these that makes me miss the OSL/MSL even more. If only Sea had prospered in the days of no SL, we just might be talking about him like the 2nd best terran to exist on the planet.
People also did that in times of when Fantasy was underperforming, remember february last year with Flash / Light / Sea at the 1 / 2 / 3..
Stats is performing better than stork and he is more well rounded than Bisu.
Without the PL people woulda talked of Bisu lastyear as the mostslumping person along with Free and Kal last year.
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Stork, Bisu and Stats have similiar records. Stork gets it for inspiring play =]
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United States7639 Posts
On February 08 2012 16:13 Motivate wrote:
I don't think Stork is playing that badly this season. However, like Bisu, he is always sent out early in the match and gets really easy match ups. I don't get why January/Park don't send their best players later like how KT does with Flash?
Maps? Stork has come out mostly on Jade and Outlier. Flash comes out on any map that's not CR or Outlier. However the maps are ordered that particular day will have something to do with when they get sent out. Flash also has to be used more strategically. Or well, he did earlier on, when KT had a lot of trouble getting the 3rd win. Lately, it hasn't been as necessary.
For SKT, it's not necessary to save Bisu, as Fantasy is the one that plays the 5th set insurance win role; that's why he didn't get much of a chance to play in the earlier rounds when SKT kept winning 3-1. So many times we've been robbed of possible Fanta vs. Flash or Fanta vs. Stats games :[
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EPT
