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On October 27 2011 00:23 Sephy90 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 20:36 ShadeR wrote:On October 26 2011 19:51 Kroml. wrote:
Can I ask core-BW fans a question? I really wonder it's answer, honestly...
I had been playing Starcraft and Brood War between 98 and 2004 and now I am in SC world again when I am 27. When I was young, playing Starcraft I didn't think too much into it, I just played. Now with a bigger internet world, shared ideas, "Nerfing and Buffing" terms created, the discussion of a game goes simply idiotic. Back in the day, when SC got dropship speed increase, we didnt say "buff" we said "wow look they changed the dropship speed, now there will be more use of this unit".
Anyway, there are so much useless discussion on SC2 forums, with "nerfing" "buffing" "whine" "cheese", and blaming blizzard, now with HotS announced with new units etc, ppl got 100x crazy on the forums...
So my question is, now you look at the past and how it worked out well for Brood War, and again look at SC2, having a special balance team to specifically balance the game etc, Do you think Brood War was kind of a freak accident, which came out from people who tried to make a good game, it was a game which came out of a well-thought process with many many tests? Because now we have a game with a balance team that can't do very well. If the incompetence comes from the team itself, where are the ppl that balanced brood war? Where is Bob Fitch?
And was Warcraft II used as a reference?
that's actually 3 questions :p sorry
***trivia about Bob Fitch : When the first version of the StarCraft engine was shown to the public, it was met with great critique. Because of the critique, Bob decided to rewrite the entire engine which he managed to do in just two months. This is just my opinion. Yes and no. I feel Blizzard back then were just trying to make an awesome game. Of course there were patches made with balance in mind but only until 1.08. So BW being balanced from Blizzards perspective is a complete freak accident (can't duplicate it). However from the Korean pro scenes perspective, balance was certainly not an accident. Maps. They meticulously balanced the game through the maps (I like to call this "soft balance" as opposed to "hard balance" which is what is occurring in SC2.), so things like rush distance, expo locations, number of expos, specific features like ramps, ridges all contributed to balancing BW. Your Bob Fitch trivia is interesting, especially considering Browders recent comments on ai pathing and LAN. Browder: no LAN would be a ton of work.... we would have to rebuild almost everything... To add a little something... Blizzard back then had different employees which they have now left Blizzard (I believe more than a few people left due to the fact that they didn't like where the company was going, please correct me if I'm wrong~ or add in a bit more). Although I kind of agree it was an accident with the balance. Also possibly a lot of the old crew that worked on BW is gone~ same thing with D2 crew.
Blizzard North was closed down in I think 2007. Most of those guys, including Bill Roper, were active in the development of Starcraft.
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Where is Bob Fitch? Still here (thank Flash!), working on SC2 and doing an amazing job with the AI. He's my personal hero, because without him, very likely there was going to be no Starcraft as we know it.
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To OP : I think SC2 in proleague would be great for foreing BW community. With SC2 in proleague, a lot of SC2 fans will watch not only SC2 games, but i believe also BW games. With all crazy stuff in BW like hold lurker, scourge cloning, mutalisk stacking, vulture micro/ mines recalls and JangBi-like storms they will be impressed and maybe they will tray play BW too. So SC2 in prolegaue = more new foreing players in BW.
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On October 30 2011 03:21 Anyx wrote:
To OP : I think SC2 in proleague would be great for foreing BW community. With SC2 in proleague, a lot of SC2 fans will watch not only SC2 games, but i believe also BW games. With all crazy stuff in BW like hold lurker, scourge cloning, mutalisk stacking, vulture micro/ mines recalls and JangBi-like storms they will be impressed and maybe they will tray play BW too. So SC2 in prolegaue = more new foreing players in BW.
I am an SC2 spectator (and also play the game). I wouldn't play BW (due to UI) but I would watch BW Proleague games if they are featured on TL and in commented in english.
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On October 30 2011 05:30 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 03:21 Anyx wrote:
To OP : I think SC2 in proleague would be great for foreing BW community. With SC2 in proleague, a lot of SC2 fans will watch not only SC2 games, but i believe also BW games. With all crazy stuff in BW like hold lurker, scourge cloning, mutalisk stacking, vulture micro/ mines recalls and JangBi-like storms they will be impressed and maybe they will tray play BW too. So SC2 in prolegaue = more new foreing players in BW. I am an SC2 spectator (and also play the game). I wouldn't play BW (due to UI) but I would watch BW Proleague games if they are featured on TL and in commented in english.
Sayle is going to cast proleague in English. Frickin sweet :D
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On October 30 2011 05:30 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 03:21 Anyx wrote:
To OP : I think SC2 in proleague would be great for foreing BW community. With SC2 in proleague, a lot of SC2 fans will watch not only SC2 games, but i believe also BW games. With all crazy stuff in BW like hold lurker, scourge cloning, mutalisk stacking, vulture micro/ mines recalls and JangBi-like storms they will be impressed and maybe they will tray play BW too. So SC2 in prolegaue = more new foreing players in BW. I am an SC2 spectator (and also play the game). I wouldn't play BW (due to UI) but I would watch BW Proleague games if they are featured on TL and in commented in english.
Why would you want to listen to them be cast in English when the Korean commentators make the game so much more exciting (even when you have no idea what they are saying)? :p
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On October 30 2011 05:30 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 03:21 Anyx wrote:
To OP : I think SC2 in proleague would be great for foreing BW community. With SC2 in proleague, a lot of SC2 fans will watch not only SC2 games, but i believe also BW games. With all crazy stuff in BW like hold lurker, scourge cloning, mutalisk stacking, vulture micro/ mines recalls and JangBi-like storms they will be impressed and maybe they will tray play BW too. So SC2 in prolegaue = more new foreing players in BW. I am an SC2 spectator (and also play the game). I wouldn't play BW (due to UI) but I would watch BW Proleague games if they are featured on TL and in commented in english.
Here you go.
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On October 31 2011 09:52 Angra wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 05:30 Sandermatt wrote:On October 30 2011 03:21 Anyx wrote:
To OP : I think SC2 in proleague would be great for foreing BW community. With SC2 in proleague, a lot of SC2 fans will watch not only SC2 games, but i believe also BW games. With all crazy stuff in BW like hold lurker, scourge cloning, mutalisk stacking, vulture micro/ mines recalls and JangBi-like storms they will be impressed and maybe they will tray play BW too. So SC2 in prolegaue = more new foreing players in BW. I am an SC2 spectator (and also play the game). I wouldn't play BW (due to UI) but I would watch BW Proleague games if they are featured on TL and in commented in english. Why would you want to listen to them be cast in English when the Korean commentators make the game so much more exciting (even when you have no idea what they are saying)? :p
That works for us because we "get" the game but people who have never played nor watched any BW would just get confused
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On October 31 2011 18:26 Ikonn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 09:52 Angra wrote:On October 30 2011 05:30 Sandermatt wrote:On October 30 2011 03:21 Anyx wrote:
To OP : I think SC2 in proleague would be great for foreing BW community. With SC2 in proleague, a lot of SC2 fans will watch not only SC2 games, but i believe also BW games. With all crazy stuff in BW like hold lurker, scourge cloning, mutalisk stacking, vulture micro/ mines recalls and JangBi-like storms they will be impressed and maybe they will tray play BW too. So SC2 in prolegaue = more new foreing players in BW. I am an SC2 spectator (and also play the game). I wouldn't play BW (due to UI) but I would watch BW Proleague games if they are featured on TL and in commented in english. Why would you want to listen to them be cast in English when the Korean commentators make the game so much more exciting (even when you have no idea what they are saying)? :p That works for us because we "get" the game but people who have never played nor watched any BW would just get confused
That's not really exactly the case.Someone who already watches sc2 has a decent knowledge of the fundamentals and objectives of such a game which already makes it pretty easy to start following it.
When I watched my first few BW games the only thing I was confused about was the build orders and maps because you can't see anything through the fog of war,where as in sc2 you can see the terrain and its general layout on the minimap.But after I played a few games on iccup and watched a few cast on youtube and some Vods you really get most of the basic BW knowledge that you don't really need a english commentator,Koreans already get so excited that you figure out pretty easy what is going on.
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On October 30 2011 05:30 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 03:21 Anyx wrote:
To OP : I think SC2 in proleague would be great for foreing BW community. With SC2 in proleague, a lot of SC2 fans will watch not only SC2 games, but i believe also BW games. With all crazy stuff in BW like hold lurker, scourge cloning, mutalisk stacking, vulture micro/ mines recalls and JangBi-like storms they will be impressed and maybe they will tray play BW too. So SC2 in prolegaue = more new foreing players in BW. I am an SC2 spectator (and also play the game). I wouldn't play BW (due to UI) but I would watch BW Proleague games if they are featured on TL and in commented in english.
You're missing out on STORMUUUUUUUU and TANKUUUUUU
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On October 31 2011 18:26 Ikonn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 09:52 Angra wrote:On October 30 2011 05:30 Sandermatt wrote:On October 30 2011 03:21 Anyx wrote:
To OP : I think SC2 in proleague would be great for foreing BW community. With SC2 in proleague, a lot of SC2 fans will watch not only SC2 games, but i believe also BW games. With all crazy stuff in BW like hold lurker, scourge cloning, mutalisk stacking, vulture micro/ mines recalls and JangBi-like storms they will be impressed and maybe they will tray play BW too. So SC2 in prolegaue = more new foreing players in BW. I am an SC2 spectator (and also play the game). I wouldn't play BW (due to UI) but I would watch BW Proleague games if they are featured on TL and in commented in english. Why would you want to listen to them be cast in English when the Korean commentators make the game so much more exciting (even when you have no idea what they are saying)? :p That works for us because we "get" the game but people who have never played nor watched any BW would just get confused
Hum..it depends on what you mean by "we get the game". We were all new to BW at some point, was it 10yrs ago or 10 days and we all listen to korean even tho most of us dont get what they're saying. In the very beggining, long before I made an account on TL, I was just watching the games and reading the LR thread. I think that helps a lot because people usually know their stuff and will do more than a simple LR. Thats how I started to understand the game better a few years ago.
Thats my advice. If Sayle is actually going to cast in english good, but you shouldnt avoid BW because theres no english stream =/ (the part about being featured, they always are  ) watch the koreans, get excited from their excitment lol and keep reading the LR (key word reading, if everyone starts spaming those with whine and stupid stuff too, it defeats the purpose) and soon enough you'll be able to understand whats going on just fine. Other thing is that with "clean" balance whine free LR thread the viewing experience is way better because you actually get to share the emotions and excitment from the game with tons of people and that makes it even better, turns epic things into something really to remember.
Edit: Oh and if SC2 really needs to start making its way into PL, give it some special round. Maybe instead of 2 WL rounds make one WL round longer than usual and then a short SC2 round (maybe every team plays every team once then top 2 face each other to see who wins that round) and then back to the usual PL with BW. I think this would work better than having mixed BW and SC2 matches in the same match. It wouldnt hurt BW fans that much due to only being one small round and would probably lure more views from SC2 players due to some of them starting to get excited about one player or one team and want to see how they perform in the BW part of the season. Just my thoughts.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/b4Gbd.jpg)
The writer for star bnet attack (mbcgamesba - they use this account to take people's questions and such) says the PL season is confirmed to start mid November. Not sure how reliable this is, given this is just a screenshot that's been floating around the community. Also, mid November is only 2 weeks away;;
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Are they going to mix SCBW and SC2 in the proleague? I thought they would make a separate league for SC2! 
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On October 31 2011 18:26 Ikonn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 09:52 Angra wrote:On October 30 2011 05:30 Sandermatt wrote:On October 30 2011 03:21 Anyx wrote:
To OP : I think SC2 in proleague would be great for foreing BW community. With SC2 in proleague, a lot of SC2 fans will watch not only SC2 games, but i believe also BW games. With all crazy stuff in BW like hold lurker, scourge cloning, mutalisk stacking, vulture micro/ mines recalls and JangBi-like storms they will be impressed and maybe they will tray play BW too. So SC2 in prolegaue = more new foreing players in BW. I am an SC2 spectator (and also play the game). I wouldn't play BW (due to UI) but I would watch BW Proleague games if they are featured on TL and in commented in english. Why would you want to listen to them be cast in English when the Korean commentators make the game so much more exciting (even when you have no idea what they are saying)? :p That works for us because we "get" the game but people who have never played nor watched any BW would just get confused
A few other people have offered explanations to why your wrong and I think so too. Most BW fans are not amazing at this game. It's always been very tempting, very easy to just watch BW instead of play due to the pride that comes with trying to be good.
In my opinion the huge demand for English commentary and refusal to watch the Koreans is a result of some minor xenophobia. I know that's a huge accusation so here me out and don't take the word at face value. What I mean is that BW fans are people who are already willing to play a game that is 10 years old. BW fans are people who were already willing to accept a video game could be a sport. BW fans were people who found the Korean's excitement delightful. We accepted all these strange and foreign ideas (foreign to western understanding) and embraced them. Hell, even the way BW is played is very much embedded in Eastern military thought (stratagem, cunning, trickery) today (whereas SC2 still has extremely western military ideas of might vs might thx idra).
So what we have is gaming as a 'sport' somewhat normalized in the west finally by SC2. I mean not really normalized, since hell if I've ever seen a stadium for SC2 in Canada, but normalized like there's barcraft and people are okay with that. And we have tonnes of English casting. And there's nothing foreign about it, it's a relatively new game, there's no pressure to accept anything new. So why make an exception for commentary? I don't know. But for those people from SC2 who've become interested in BW, you're giving a 10 year old game a chance and I commend you for that. So give the Koreans a chance too. Go all the way and embrace it. Koreans screaming is one of the best things about professional BW, anyone whose been a fan for years will tell you. Listening to people tell you what's on screen or be wrong about strategy is not going to increase entertainment value unless you have a really deep need to hear things in your own language.
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On October 31 2011 23:49 Sillylaughs wrote:The writer for star bnet attack (mbcgamesba - they use this account to take people's questions and such) says the PL season is confirmed to start mid November. Not sure how reliable this is, given this is just a screenshot that's been floating around the community. Also, mid November is only 2 weeks away;;
Any news right now is GOOD news!! : )
We've all grown accustomed to korean commentary. Although it may turn away some of the masses, I believe that the korean commentary adds to the discussions in the LR threads, promotes more interpretations/analysis/discussions of the game, epic games leaving you speechless or scavenging over interviews/threads for more information and all these seem to add to the overall enjoyability for me!
And to anybody having difficulty understanding the game, can definitely catch sayle, nuke and dejavu119 later on : P
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
the screenshot says MSL is most likely impossible, but PL is guaranteed to start mid-nov.
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id rather watch subtitled casting than overlapped english casters tbh
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On November 01 2011 00:18 konadora wrote:
the screenshot says MSL is most likely impossible, but PL is guaranteed to start mid-nov.
Did they at least try selling/giving MSL to AniBox or whatever that new (?) channel is called? ;<
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
On November 01 2011 00:45 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 00:18 konadora wrote:
the screenshot says MSL is most likely impossible, but PL is guaranteed to start mid-nov. Did they at least try selling/giving MSL to AniBox or whatever that new (?) channel is called? ;<
no word about that, the rumor about anibox taking over the operation as a new gaming channel is... well, a rumor.
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United States7639 Posts
On October 31 2011 23:49 Sillylaughs wrote:The writer for star bnet attack (mbcgamesba - they use this account to take people's questions and such) says the PL season is confirmed to start mid November. Not sure how reliable this is, given this is just a screenshot that's been floating around the community. Also, mid November is only 2 weeks away;;
I was hoping it would start at the beginning of Nov... like, idk, TODAY.
I only have a month and a half left in Korea... Wonder if I'll even get to see all that many games ;__;
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EPT
