On October 26 2011 19:51 Kroml. wrote: Can I ask core-BW fans a question? I really wonder it's answer, honestly...
I had been playing Starcraft and Brood War between 98 and 2004 and now I am in SC world again when I am 27. When I was young, playing Starcraft I didn't think too much into it, I just played. Now with a bigger internet world, shared ideas, "Nerfing and Buffing" terms created, the discussion of a game goes simply idiotic. Back in the day, when SC got dropship speed increase, we didnt say "buff" we said "wow look they changed the dropship speed, now there will be more use of this unit".
Anyway, there are so much useless discussion on SC2 forums, with "nerfing" "buffing" "whine" "cheese", and blaming blizzard, now with HotS announced with new units etc, ppl got 100x crazy on the forums...
So my question is, now you look at the past and how it worked out well for Brood War, and again look at SC2, having a special balance team to specifically balance the game etc, Do you think Brood War was kind of a freak accident, which came out from people who tried to make a good game, it was a game which came out of a well-thought process with many many tests? Because now we have a game with a balance team that can't do very well. If the incompetence comes from the team itself, where are the ppl that balanced brood war? Where is Bob Fitch?
And was Warcraft II used as a reference?
that's actually 3 questions :p sorry
***trivia about Bob Fitch : When the first version of the StarCraft engine was shown to the public, it was met with great critique. Because of the critique, Bob decided to rewrite the entire engine which he managed to do in just two months.
This is just my opinion. Yes and no. I feel Blizzard back then were just trying to make an awesome game. Of course there were patches made with balance in mind but only until 1.08. So BW being balanced from Blizzards perspective is a complete freak accident (can't duplicate it). However from the Korean pro scenes perspective, balance was certainly not an accident. Maps. They meticulously balanced the game through the maps (I like to call this "soft balance" as opposed to "hard balance" which is what is occurring in SC2.), so things like rush distance, expo locations, number of expos, specific features like ramps, ridges all contributed to balancing BW.
Your Bob Fitch trivia is interesting, especially considering Browders recent comments on ai pathing and LAN. Browder: no LAN would be a ton of work.... we would have to rebuild almost everything...
To add a little something... Blizzard back then had different employees which they have now left Blizzard (I believe more than a few people left due to the fact that they didn't like where the company was going, please correct me if I'm wrong~ or add in a bit more). Although I kind of agree it was an accident with the balance. Also possibly a lot of the old crew that worked on BW is gone~ same thing with D2 crew.
Blizzard North was closed down in I think 2007. Most of those guys, including Bill Roper, were active in the development of Starcraft.
Bill Roper worked on Starcraft while a part of Blizzard Entertainment. Blizzard North made two games under that name: Diablo and Diablo II (including the Lord of Destruction). Before they were Blizzard North (under the name Condor), they made Justice League Task Force!
Starcraft was created solely by Blizzard Entertainment with the lead designers being Chris Metzen and James Phinney. Starcraft: Brood War was worked on in tandem by Blizzard Entertainment and Saffire, a third party whom they outsourced campaign levels, art visuals, etc to. It was lead in design by Chris Metzen and Rob Pardo.
Both Chris Metzen and Rob Pardo still work for Blizzard Entertainment, although I don't think Rob Pardo works on a level that has any contact with game development anymore. And since we all know Dustin Browder is the lead designer for SC2:WoL and SC2:HotS, Chris Metzen is probably involved in the story/campaign alone this time.
They were a much smaller company back then and, honestly, I think most of what's become of Starcraft has been luck. It happened to be just the right game at just the right time to spark something more than other games by no intentional design of its creators. I mean Brood War was partially outsourced!
The writer for star bnet attack (mbcgamesba - they use this account to take people's questions and such) says the PL season is confirmed to start mid November. Not sure how reliable this is, given this is just a screenshot that's been floating around the community. Also, mid November is only 2 weeks away;;
On November 01 2011 01:50 BlackGosu wrote: oh damn then there may be no sc2 at the end of this year. then why are all the bw pros practicing so hard for sc2 then?
Since one team started prepping they all do. If they announce it midseason then the teams that were practicing have a clear edge. No one wants to give them that edge so they are all practicing in order to maintain the status quo.
On November 01 2011 01:50 BlackGosu wrote: oh damn then there may be no sc2 at the end of this year. then why are all the bw pros practicing so hard for sc2 then?
Those are rumors and speculations. Read OP on sc2 forum, there are no facts, just a list of "possible players", who made that list? nobody knows (from sc2 thread OP: "They could easily be random smurfs."), screenshots? , not sourced statments, and random quotes.
On October 26 2011 19:51 Kroml. wrote: Can I ask core-BW fans a question? I really wonder it's answer, honestly...
I had been playing Starcraft and Brood War between 98 and 2004 and now I am in SC world again when I am 27. When I was young, playing Starcraft I didn't think too much into it, I just played. Now with a bigger internet world, shared ideas, "Nerfing and Buffing" terms created, the discussion of a game goes simply idiotic. Back in the day, when SC got dropship speed increase, we didnt say "buff" we said "wow look they changed the dropship speed, now there will be more use of this unit".
Anyway, there are so much useless discussion on SC2 forums, with "nerfing" "buffing" "whine" "cheese", and blaming blizzard, now with HotS announced with new units etc, ppl got 100x crazy on the forums...
So my question is, now you look at the past and how it worked out well for Brood War, and again look at SC2, having a special balance team to specifically balance the game etc, Do you think Brood War was kind of a freak accident, which came out from people who tried to make a good game, it was a game which came out of a well-thought process with many many tests? Because now we have a game with a balance team that can't do very well. If the incompetence comes from the team itself, where are the ppl that balanced brood war? Where is Bob Fitch?
And was Warcraft II used as a reference?
that's actually 3 questions :p sorry
***trivia about Bob Fitch : When the first version of the StarCraft engine was shown to the public, it was met with great critique. Because of the critique, Bob decided to rewrite the entire engine which he managed to do in just two months.
This is just my opinion. Yes and no. I feel Blizzard back then were just trying to make an awesome game. Of course there were patches made with balance in mind but only until 1.08. So BW being balanced from Blizzards perspective is a complete freak accident (can't duplicate it). However from the Korean pro scenes perspective, balance was certainly not an accident. Maps. They meticulously balanced the game through the maps (I like to call this "soft balance" as opposed to "hard balance" which is what is occurring in SC2.), so things like rush distance, expo locations, number of expos, specific features like ramps, ridges all contributed to balancing BW.
Your Bob Fitch trivia is interesting, especially considering Browders recent comments on ai pathing and LAN. Browder: no LAN would be a ton of work.... we would have to rebuild almost everything...
To add a little something... Blizzard back then had different employees which they have now left Blizzard (I believe more than a few people left due to the fact that they didn't like where the company was going, please correct me if I'm wrong~ or add in a bit more). Although I kind of agree it was an accident with the balance. Also possibly a lot of the old crew that worked on BW is gone~ same thing with D2 crew.
Blizzard North was closed down in I think 2007. Most of those guys, including Bill Roper, were active in the development of Starcraft.
Wrong, SC BW were made by Blizzard South with some menial work outsourced. Also, Bill Roper was assigned to work with Blizzard North but he originally came from Blizzard South. The voiceovers in Warcraft 2 are his ("the Orcish Horde")
On November 01 2011 01:50 BlackGosu wrote: oh damn then there may be no sc2 at the end of this year. then why are all the bw pros practicing so hard for sc2 then?
Those are rumors and speculations. Read OP on sc2 forum, there are no facts, just a list of "possible players", who made that list? nobody knows (from sc2 thread OP: "They could easily be random smurfs."), screenshots? , not sourced statments, and random quotes.
Considering the RealID system BNET2.0 uses, some of them are probably legit.
On October 30 2011 03:21 Anyx wrote: To OP : I think SC2 in proleague would be great for foreing BW community. With SC2 in proleague, a lot of SC2 fans will watch not only SC2 games, but i believe also BW games. With all crazy stuff in BW like hold lurker, scourge cloning, mutalisk stacking, vulture micro/ mines recalls and JangBi-like storms they will be impressed and maybe they will tray play BW too. So SC2 in prolegaue = more new foreing players in BW.
I am an SC2 spectator (and also play the game). I wouldn't play BW (due to UI) but I would watch BW Proleague games if they are featured on TL and in commented in english.
You're missing out on STORMUUUUUUUU and TANKUUUUUU
On October 26 2011 19:51 Kroml. wrote: Can I ask core-BW fans a question? I really wonder it's answer, honestly...
I had been playing Starcraft and Brood War between 98 and 2004 and now I am in SC world again when I am 27. When I was young, playing Starcraft I didn't think too much into it, I just played. Now with a bigger internet world, shared ideas, "Nerfing and Buffing" terms created, the discussion of a game goes simply idiotic. Back in the day, when SC got dropship speed increase, we didnt say "buff" we said "wow look they changed the dropship speed, now there will be more use of this unit".
Anyway, there are so much useless discussion on SC2 forums, with "nerfing" "buffing" "whine" "cheese", and blaming blizzard, now with HotS announced with new units etc, ppl got 100x crazy on the forums...
So my question is, now you look at the past and how it worked out well for Brood War, and again look at SC2, having a special balance team to specifically balance the game etc, Do you think Brood War was kind of a freak accident, which came out from people who tried to make a good game, it was a game which came out of a well-thought process with many many tests? Because now we have a game with a balance team that can't do very well. If the incompetence comes from the team itself, where are the ppl that balanced brood war? Where is Bob Fitch?
And was Warcraft II used as a reference?
that's actually 3 questions :p sorry
***trivia about Bob Fitch : When the first version of the StarCraft engine was shown to the public, it was met with great critique. Because of the critique, Bob decided to rewrite the entire engine which he managed to do in just two months.
This is just my opinion. Yes and no. I feel Blizzard back then were just trying to make an awesome game. Of course there were patches made with balance in mind but only until 1.08. So BW being balanced from Blizzards perspective is a complete freak accident (can't duplicate it). However from the Korean pro scenes perspective, balance was certainly not an accident. Maps. They meticulously balanced the game through the maps (I like to call this "soft balance" as opposed to "hard balance" which is what is occurring in SC2.), so things like rush distance, expo locations, number of expos, specific features like ramps, ridges all contributed to balancing BW.
Your Bob Fitch trivia is interesting, especially considering Browders recent comments on ai pathing and LAN. Browder: no LAN would be a ton of work.... we would have to rebuild almost everything...
To add a little something... Blizzard back then had different employees which they have now left Blizzard (I believe more than a few people left due to the fact that they didn't like where the company was going, please correct me if I'm wrong~ or add in a bit more). Although I kind of agree it was an accident with the balance. Also possibly a lot of the old crew that worked on BW is gone~ same thing with D2 crew.
Blizzard North was closed down in I think 2007. Most of those guys, including Bill Roper, were active in the development of Starcraft.
Bill Roper worked on Starcraft while a part of Blizzard Entertainment. Blizzard North made two games under that name: Diablo and Diablo II (including the Lord of Destruction). Before they were Blizzard North (under the name Condor), they made Justice League Task Force!
Starcraft was created solely by Blizzard Entertainment with the lead designers being Chris Metzen and James Phinney. Starcraft: Brood War was worked on in tandem by Blizzard Entertainment and Saffire, a third party whom they outsourced campaign levels, art visuals, etc to. It was lead in design by Chris Metzen and Rob Pardo.
Both Chris Metzen and Rob Pardo still work for Blizzard Entertainment, although I don't think Rob Pardo works on a level that has any contact with game development anymore. And since we all know Dustin Browder is the lead designer for SC2:WoL and SC2:HotS, Chris Metzen is probably involved in the story/campaign alone this time.
They were a much smaller company back then and, honestly, I think most of what's become of Starcraft has been luck. It happened to be just the right game at just the right time to spark something more than other games by no intentional design of its creators. I mean Brood War was partially outsourced!
why do you think Rob Pardo is not involved so much in the production of sc2? I ask you because you seem knowledgable about blizzard history.
Why don't Kespa confirm whether there will be SC2 at the start of PL or not ? The new season will start very soon but still no news, unbelievable. I've just bought SC2 but I still don't know which game to play. They should release the format so that I know for sure which game Bisu plays and play that game, this waiting is just unbearable.
I'm pretty excited to see the switch from BW to SC2 to be honest. It'll be cool just to see how much will change at the top levels of play and how much the metagame will change with all the new high level players
On November 01 2011 06:31 kamikami wrote: Why don't Kespa confirm whether there will be SC2 at the start of PL or not ? The new season will start very soon but still no news, unbelievable. I've just bought SC2 but I still don't know which game to play. They should release the format so that I know for sure which game Bisu plays and play that game, this waiting is just unbearable.
What the fuck man? If Bisu decides to jump off the bridge,would you do the same? Just play the game that you like more,don`t wait for some guys in Kespa to decide it for you...
On November 01 2011 06:31 kamikami wrote: Why don't Kespa confirm whether there will be SC2 at the start of PL or not ? The new season will start very soon but still no news, unbelievable. I've just bought SC2 but I still don't know which game to play. They should release the format so that I know for sure which game Bisu plays and play that game, this waiting is just unbearable.
If you're actually serious, even if there is Starcraft 2 he'll still be playing Brood War also.
On November 01 2011 06:31 kamikami wrote: Why don't Kespa confirm whether there will be SC2 at the start of PL or not ? The new season will start very soon but still no news, unbelievable. I've just bought SC2 but I still don't know which game to play. They should release the format so that I know for sure which game Bisu plays and play that game, this waiting is just unbearable.
this post is actually godly
but yeah im in for that. i want to know what my beloved bisu is gonna do
On October 30 2011 03:21 Anyx wrote: To OP : I think SC2 in proleague would be great for foreing BW community. With SC2 in proleague, a lot of SC2 fans will watch not only SC2 games, but i believe also BW games. With all crazy stuff in BW like hold lurker, scourge cloning, mutalisk stacking, vulture micro/ mines recalls and JangBi-like storms they will be impressed and maybe they will tray play BW too. So SC2 in prolegaue = more new foreing players in BW.
I am an SC2 spectator (and also play the game). I wouldn't play BW (due to UI) but I would watch BW Proleague games if they are featured on TL and in commented in english.
You're missing out on STORMUUUUUUUU and TANKUUUUUU
On October 30 2011 03:21 Anyx wrote: To OP : I think SC2 in proleague would be great for foreing BW community. With SC2 in proleague, a lot of SC2 fans will watch not only SC2 games, but i believe also BW games. With all crazy stuff in BW like hold lurker, scourge cloning, mutalisk stacking, vulture micro/ mines recalls and JangBi-like storms they will be impressed and maybe they will tray play BW too. So SC2 in prolegaue = more new foreing players in BW.
I am an SC2 spectator (and also play the game). I wouldn't play BW (due to UI) but I would watch BW Proleague games if they are featured on TL and in commented in english.
You're missing out on STORMUUUUUUUU and TANKUUUUUU
On October 26 2011 19:51 Kroml. wrote: Can I ask core-BW fans a question? I really wonder it's answer, honestly...
I had been playing Starcraft and Brood War between 98 and 2004 and now I am in SC world again when I am 27. When I was young, playing Starcraft I didn't think too much into it, I just played. Now with a bigger internet world, shared ideas, "Nerfing and Buffing" terms created, the discussion of a game goes simply idiotic. Back in the day, when SC got dropship speed increase, we didnt say "buff" we said "wow look they changed the dropship speed, now there will be more use of this unit".
Anyway, there are so much useless discussion on SC2 forums, with "nerfing" "buffing" "whine" "cheese", and blaming blizzard, now with HotS announced with new units etc, ppl got 100x crazy on the forums...
So my question is, now you look at the past and how it worked out well for Brood War, and again look at SC2, having a special balance team to specifically balance the game etc, Do you think Brood War was kind of a freak accident, which came out from people who tried to make a good game, it was a game which came out of a well-thought process with many many tests? Because now we have a game with a balance team that can't do very well. If the incompetence comes from the team itself, where are the ppl that balanced brood war? Where is Bob Fitch?
And was Warcraft II used as a reference?
that's actually 3 questions :p sorry
***trivia about Bob Fitch : When the first version of the StarCraft engine was shown to the public, it was met with great critique. Because of the critique, Bob decided to rewrite the entire engine which he managed to do in just two months.
This is just my opinion. Yes and no. I feel Blizzard back then were just trying to make an awesome game. Of course there were patches made with balance in mind but only until 1.08. So BW being balanced from Blizzards perspective is a complete freak accident (can't duplicate it). However from the Korean pro scenes perspective, balance was certainly not an accident. Maps. They meticulously balanced the game through the maps (I like to call this "soft balance" as opposed to "hard balance" which is what is occurring in SC2.), so things like rush distance, expo locations, number of expos, specific features like ramps, ridges all contributed to balancing BW.
Your Bob Fitch trivia is interesting, especially considering Browders recent comments on ai pathing and LAN. Browder: no LAN would be a ton of work.... we would have to rebuild almost everything...
To add a little something... Blizzard back then had different employees which they have now left Blizzard (I believe more than a few people left due to the fact that they didn't like where the company was going, please correct me if I'm wrong~ or add in a bit more). Although I kind of agree it was an accident with the balance. Also possibly a lot of the old crew that worked on BW is gone~ same thing with D2 crew.
Blizzard North was closed down in I think 2007. Most of those guys, including Bill Roper, were active in the development of Starcraft.
Wrong, SC BW were made by Blizzard South with some menial work outsourced. Also, Bill Roper was assigned to work with Blizzard North but he originally came from Blizzard South. The voiceovers in Warcraft 2 are his ("the Orcish Horde")
A bit of an aside, but I'm playing through the Warcraft 3 campaign for the first time and I'm really missing the narrator's epic voice from WC2. Pretty sure that was Bill's voice. Just isn't the same without that narrator.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/b4Gbd.jpg)
