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m4gdelen4
United States416 Posts
On October 23 2011 00:18 Warlord_Master wrote: I will always consider brood war like chess, a classic game that can never be forgotten. This is word for word exactly how I feel about BW too! I completely agree. | ||
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
On October 23 2011 04:32 HaFnium wrote: SCBW has been doing exceptionally well. When SCBW was out there was nothing. no youtube, no livestreams, no commentaries, hell even no replay pre 1.08 patches. It wasn't designed with e-sport in mind at all but stll grew substantially. In fact I think its one of the most succesful game in driving e-sports forward. Why would blizzard make SC2 had they not seen the success of BW? And on the fading bit. Is classical music better or pop music the better music? Good/bad has nothing to do with popularity. Unfortunately the mass(refering to ppl like you) mainly like graphics and want new stuff so they tend to avoid old stuff. (consumerist) Due to the handicaps mentioned above it took BW quite long to development and by that time the mass would simply not play it. SC2 will meet the same fate, newer engines, graphics, gameplay might make it obsolete and we may have to see SC3. BW lasted at least 10 years (still going on of coz) and lets see how many years can SC2 last lol I think the difference is SC2 has BW to build on and SC2 does have developer, community and tournament support that BW never had, built into the game itself. I think graphics and audio capabilities will certainly need upgrading in the future, but I think it is more likely to use SC2 as a platform to upgrade rather then toss it out for a whole new game since Blizzard will probably already have a stable and profitable business model that can mold over time. I perhaps it won't be SC2, but I think there will come a time where SC will become a platform that the game is built on rather than an isolated game itself. So it could be updated and upgraded overtime without overturning the player and fan base. Also, I owned and played BW since 2001-2002. Not competitively, but I am not some graphics noobie that jumped on during SC2. I was playing BW on and off until my rig started messing with it so much that it became nearly unplayable and I really didn't know how to mod it back into shape. | ||
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NesQuick
United States6 Posts
On October 22 2011 04:52 villageidiot wrote: Most owners of the kespa are local korean companies, so integration of foreign scene is a vague thing. However people in US and Europe could start using korean telecommunication service providers... I think such a partnership is what would ultimately drive the transition. Seeing how well the foreign scene is succeeding a business idiot like my self can see how profitable a partnership for international broadcast rights could be. I could see MLG or some similar company picking up English broadcast rights. | ||
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
On October 24 2011 00:39 NesQuick wrote: I think such a partnership is what would ultimately drive the transition. Seeing how well the foreign scene is succeeding a business idiot like my self can see how profitable a partnership for international broadcast rights could be. I could see MLG or some similar company picking up English broadcast rights. They would have to take a risk and invest a lot in upgrading presentation and infrastructure if they intend to target not only the current foreign BW fans, but attract newbies too. | ||
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
Why does it matter so much if Korea (and KeSPA) take up SC2 at all when SC2 is growing exponentially everywhere else around the world? Why is the acceptance of SC2 in Korea such a big deal? From an outsider's prospective it seems like SC2 is doing just fine. | ||
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SynapseSC
United States86 Posts
On October 24 2011 17:00 synergy_sin wrote: So, completely serious question here because I don't understand. Why does it matter so much if Korea (and KeSPA) take up SC2 at all when SC2 is growing exponentially everywhere else around the world? Why is the acceptance of SC2 in Korea such a big deal? From an outsider's prospective it seems like SC2 is doing just fine. I followed BW decently well and I'm now an avid SC2 fan (though I still try to keep up on BW).. and I agree. As crazy as it may sound to those who are/were BW fans, if SC2 is able to keep up its growth on an international level I believe it can reach a point where Korea will not need to be the mecca of the game. If prize pools & salaries someday reach a point where it makes more sense for top Korean gamers to move internationally and play instead of top international players moving there for the better training, SC2 in Korea may not be as big of a deal as it would seem to be. Especially considering the lack of funding for Korean teams right now and the seemingly looming arms race between MLG and IPL, this may start to slowly shift sooner rather than later. Some players (PuMa, Rain, etc) have already joined international teams. | ||
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tyCe
Australia2542 Posts
On the other hand, Blizzard can fast track some development in Korean SC2 progaming by allowing KeSPA into the picture, though it may risk alienating GOM, which I feel has done a commendable job in the past year. However, it is no secret that the large multinational Korean companies are far more interested in sponsoring SC2 progaming than BW alone because of the wider and greater reach (see recent team sponsorship negotiation issues; also compare sponsors of BW teams with the juggernauts of LG, Pepsi, Coca Cola, etc of SC2). Truth be told, KeSPA must feel like a beggar at the bargaining table and the situation will only worsen with time. The contrast between the recent "international" esports festival showcasing games with no global appeal, and competitions like DreamHack, MLG, IEM etc highlights KeSPA's problem very well: increasing irrelevance. KeSPA in this current state cannot keep BW alive for long. However, if they do embrace SC2 for better sponsorship deals and global interest, BW will similarly lose a great portion of its rising talent to SC2 due to KeSPA helping SC2's legitimacy in Korea (not needed for SC2 but it will help of course). I really think that the only way to keep BW alive for long is to revamp its graphics. As long as it seems as modern and shiny as SC2, it will be treated as the superior and more skill-demanding version of SC2. However, this requires Blizzard approval and I doubt Blizzard will ever agree. Edit: actually BW fans should be very nervous due to this piece of news as KeSPA is evidently considering trying to usurp GOM's position as the organiser of SC2 progaming at the most revered location, Korea. This is clearly a selfish move or a move designed to guarantee its own survival. If the day comes where KeSPA is realizing more profits from SC2 than BW (and this day will come soon if they do usurp GOM's position), then I doubt they will do all that much to guarantee BW's survival when it is clear that encouraging players like Flash or Jaedon to SC2 will grant KeSPA more profit. KeSPA is certainly not a savior for BW; they are a naive, greedy and insular organization that was too short sighted to negotiate a compromised deal with Blizzard on SC2 in the first instance and is now regretting its past decisions and ultimately jealous of GOM's mutual success and benefit with Blizzard. The explosion of SC2 popularity worldwide contradicted their belief of self-importance and surprised them with their own insignificance on the world stage. They want their position of influence back and more importantly they want a share of the global pie. Therefore, they are going back on their previous stance of matyring themselves for the sake of Korean culture and the good of BW and other alibis, because theyve finally found out in the off season how much money and prestige they are missing out on. | ||
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Vuk_91
Serbia1690 Posts
On October 24 2011 22:13 tyCe wrote: Quite frankly, SC2 does not need KeSPA. To the contrary, KeSPA needs SC2. KeSPA alone will not legitimise SC2 in Korea. Look at its pedigree: a number of insular-scale games and BW, which is dying in popularity in both Korea and worldwide (this is not open to debate if you look at: 1. Crowd sizes compared to a few years back; and 2. The popular opinion of BW progaming as a profession and game addiction today compared to a few years back). On the other hand, Blizzard can fast track some development in Korean SC2 progaming by allowing KeSPA into the picture, though it may risk alienating GOM, which I feel has done a commendable job in the past year. However, it is no secret that the large multinational Korean companies are far more interested in sponsoring SC2 progaming than BW alone because of the wider and greater reach (see recent team sponsorship negotiation issues; also compare sponsors of BW teams with the juggernauts of LG, Pepsi, Coca Cola, etc of SC2). Truth be told, KeSPA must feel like a beggar at the bargaining table and the situation will only worsen with time. The contrast between the recent "international" esports festival showcasing games with no global appeal, and competitions like DreamHack, MLG, IEM etc highlights KeSPA's problem very well: increasing irrelevance. KeSPA in this current state cannot keep BW alive for long. However, if they do embrace SC2 for better sponsorship deals and global interest, BW will similarly lose a great portion of its rising talent to SC2 due to KeSPA helping SC2's legitimacy in Korea (not needed for SC2 but it will help of course). I really think that the only way to keep BW alive for long is to revamp its graphics. As long as it seems as modern and shiny as SC2, it will be treated as the superior and more skill-demanding version of SC2. However, this requires Blizzard approval and I doubt Blizzard will ever agree. One thing: Proleague finals were the most viewed e-sport event in Korea,and those numbers in China were frightening! | ||
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Ikonn
Netherlands1958 Posts
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tyCe
Australia2542 Posts
On October 24 2011 22:25 Vuk_91 wrote: One thing: Proleague finals were the most viewed e-sport event in Korea,and those numbers in China were frightening! Numbers from China are always frightening. The numbers for DotA and other MOBAs in China will probably make KeSPA cream their pants. In any case it doesn't matter what the numbers in Korea were (and the live audience was smaller than usual no? Combined with poor usual viewing outside the finals and the demise of the MSL... Although, if I'm wrong then I'm sorry), because esports is going GLOBAL and Korea alone is but a drop in the ocean of potential viewership and advertising and sponsorship revenue. Big sponsors really help legitimise an event and if SC2, viewed as a direct rival, is getting bigger sponsors, then it is not only getting more money but more recognition. I really don't think BW will survive much longer then, or it will become increasingly irrelevant. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66153 Posts
On October 24 2011 22:13 tyCe wrote: ... KeSPA in this current state cannot keep BW alive for long. However, if they do embrace SC2 for better sponsorship deals and global interest, BW will similarly lose a great portion of its rising talent to SC2 due to KeSPA helping SC2's legitimacy in Korea (not needed for SC2 but it will help of course). I really think that the only way to keep BW alive for long is to revamp its graphics. As long as it seems as modern and shiny as SC2, it will be treated as the superior and more skill-demanding version of SC2. However, this requires Blizzard approval and I doubt Blizzard will ever agree. ... this post was decent until i read this lol revamped graphics? really? graphics isn't what separate good games from great games. if you can't see that then you're no different from blind fanatics | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
On October 24 2011 22:37 konadora wrote: this post was decent until i read this lol revamped graphics? really? graphics isn't what separate good games from great games. if you can't see that then you're no different from blind fanatics While you are right about that, fact is that the general populace(read, casuals) would like to see shiny graphics. | ||
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hitthat
Poland2260 Posts
On October 24 2011 22:45 Kipsate wrote: While you are right about that, fact is that the general populace(read, casuals) would like to see shiny graphics. Its not even true. Company of Heroes got exeptional multiplayer gameplay (no mirror MU, so not a good tournament game) and better graphics than SC2, yet it's still less popular than the newest "warcraft in space". | ||
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Darkong
United Kingdom418 Posts
On October 24 2011 22:45 Kipsate wrote: While you are right about that, fact is that the general populace(read, casuals) would like to see shiny graphics. I would disagree with that, the people who are the most obsessed with graphic quality are the more core gamers. The casual gamers (god I hate that term) don't care so much, just look at the rise in popularity of Flash and browser based games, portable games on the iPhone and Android as well as how the Wii and DS have performed, graphics just aren't that relevant to the general gaming population. | ||
white_horse
1019 Posts
On October 24 2011 22:13 tyCe wrote: ... First of all you are over-analyzing everything and making many assumptions. How would you know so much about what kespa thinks? Also, why do you and other people assume that SC2 in proleague is going to make brood war players slowly switch to it? Nearly all of the BW progamers who want to switch already have. For those with a decent stipend, a still relatively stable practice environment, and most importantly: the hundreds of hours of time they have put into BW and the passion they have for the game, what makes you think people are going to start switching over? | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5498 Posts
On October 24 2011 22:33 tyCe wrote: Numbers from China are always frightening. The numbers for DotA and other MOBAs in China will probably make KeSPA cream their pants. In any case it doesn't matter what the numbers in Korea were (and the live audience was smaller than usual no? Combined with poor usual viewing outside the finals and the demise of the MSL... Although, if I'm wrong then I'm sorry), because esports is going GLOBAL and Korea alone is but a drop in the ocean of potential viewership and advertising and sponsorship revenue. Big sponsors really help legitimise an event and if SC2, viewed as a direct rival, is getting bigger sponsors, then it is not only getting more money but more recognition. I really don't think BW will survive much longer then, or it will become increasingly irrelevant. How on earth is SC2 getting bigger sponsors? Are you seriously comparing the likes of Samsung, SKT, KT, CJ, STX and so on to some chicken joints? Sponsors like Pepsi or Coca Cola are investing pennies into SC2 compared to what the former are investing into BW. I also don't see how KeSPA needs SC2 at all. Their focus is Korea and China to a degree. SC2 is nearly dead in Korea compared to BW. KeSPA needing SC2 is like saying a swimmer needs to hang on to a drowning person. ;; And saying KeSPA must feel like a beggar is even more ridiculous. Blizzard backed out of all their stupid demands. KeSPA essentially got what they wanted in terms of BW. As for large multinational Korean companies prefering SC2 over BW. LG sponsored a single SC2 tournament afaik. Samsung, STX, CJ etc. sponsor BW. What's your point? SC2's popularity in the west is a fad. Didn't it already lose half of the players or so since release? LoL is stealing viewers away from SC2, soon DotA 2 will and potentially the new CS. | ||
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Kiett
United States7639 Posts
On October 24 2011 22:33 tyCe wrote: Numbers from China are always frightening. The numbers for DotA and other MOBAs in China will probably make KeSPA cream their pants. In any case it doesn't matter what the numbers in Korea were (and the live audience was smaller than usual no? Combined with poor usual viewing outside the finals and the demise of the MSL... Although, if I'm wrong then I'm sorry), because esports is going GLOBAL and Korea alone is but a drop in the ocean of potential viewership and advertising and sponsorship revenue. Big sponsors really help legitimise an event and if SC2, viewed as a direct rival, is getting bigger sponsors, then it is not only getting more money but more recognition. I really don't think BW will survive much longer then, or it will become increasingly irrelevant. Less people went to the Proleague finals because they were scheduled in a hurry, after the ones in Shanghai were cancelled due to the typhoon. The venue was booked last minute, so it was a smaller place than it normally would be. And it still managed to draw some 7000 people. And people go to watch games they care about/players they like; this applies to any esport, including SC2 too as well. Look at the ABC Mart MSL Ro32 Group D matches, or the Jin Air OSL Ro8 (Jangbi vs. Flash). Neither were finals, but both had completely packed stadiums, with barely even any standing room. If you're going to pick days where there are less popular players/teams, then say "see? nobody goes to watch BW anymore," that's not a very valid point. I mean, for the most part, I think you're right: BW won't become increasingly relevant, and esports is indeed expanding past Korea, but I wanted to set the record straight on some of the things you were claiming. | ||
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Easytouch1500
United States66 Posts
The carrier just doesn't belong in sc2 with the existence of the colossus. It doesn't really synergize well with the protons endgame army. That's why I think they added the tempest, as it does synergize really well with colossus. | ||
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PlosionCornu
Italy814 Posts
I mean, does that even matter? Where's the problem if they want more audience? It's a sponsors association (read, corporations who want to make dem money), they are always on the lookout for new opportunities in the market. Like every damn business in history. I'm not surprised at all by their newfound interest in sc2. It pulls some numbers over here, and some heads did indeed turn at some point. In the same matter they found out china is interested in bw, going as far as organizing a final in foreign soil (even if chinese rain didn't like that at all). I think this 3d has so many posts just because it's "sc2" and not "insert game here". Really now, they organized a GODDAMN FINAL in china, is it a so outlandish thought of doing something about the potential audience us/eu? (we all know that korea for the moment doesn't care about sc2, so I'm gonna assume that they are thinking about "us" foreigners in some way shape or form). Yeah maybe kespa corporations wanted to expand their business in china, and used bw as a vessel to do so. That may very well be the case, so invalidating my theory. (since enstabilishing a foothold for some corporations in the anglosphere may prove far far harder). Honestly I don't think kespa is in dire times either, I just think they are looking for means of earning more dosh. It isn't like they are on the verge of declaring bankruptcy or anything like that. | ||
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smekz
Portugal503 Posts
i guess this is the monthly sc2 vs bw thread -_- | ||
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