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United Kingdom16710 Posts
Maybe they should wait for HotS before incorporating SC2 into proleague. The game's going to be quite different and *fingers crossed* more interesting when that comes out. It'll also mean the BW pros switching over will be on more of an even footing strategy-wise. Still, if they do work something out before that, it would be awesome as well.
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Sigh..
Cant we atleast have one pure BroodWar refuge left -_-
def not excited about this at all
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This is a sad day. I thought BW could live a little more. But, if the way things are, RIP and let the new hype arise.
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I can't wait for this!!! I really hope SC2 expands in Korea
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On October 20 2011 08:00 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 07:53 leo23 wrote:On October 20 2011 06:17 Angra wrote:On October 20 2011 06:01 Pelopidas wrote:
I played SC2 for a while but stopped once I realized that Blizzard was more concerned with the way casuals view the game than the actual game play experience. Now it seems that something I tried to get away from has chased me to my last refuge, and set it on fire. I just want BW to be left alone. Why is it so important that BW players switch to SC2? Why can't you SC2 fans just be happy that you get constant coverage of games from players all over the world?
It really irritates me that Blizzard has managed to astroturf a commercialized imitation of the eSports scene that sprung up spontaneously in Korea. By funding huge prize pools, and by using the name Starcraft, Blizzard managed to have the entire noncompetitive foreigner scene, many B teamers, and washed up pros switch to SC2. In my opinion many fans were duped into feeling like they were participating in something like the early days of Brood War, like they were blazing a trail for an eSports scene in the west. Instead it feels as if Blizzard is using the scene as a gigantic advertisement to sell more copies of SC2, while collecting a large percentage of tournament profits on the side. Blizzard, in attempt to parallel the way they were able to dominate the MMO genre with WoW, has created an RTS with its edges worn off, and have enriched their coffers, while gaining publicity, and recognition, with a competitive scene that attempts to parrot.
To me the game is far too different from Brood War to be its true successor. Even so, I would be willing to accept and tolerate it as long as Brood War was left alone. Now, however, Blizzards tendrils have started to touch something I hold dear, I don't know what to do. It seems I am forced to sit idle while something I enjoy is torn apart in the name of Activision-Blizzard's bottom line. I'm assuming you're going to get a lot of hate for this post, and while I don't share the exact same feelings as you, I completely understand what you mean and am in like 90% agreement with you. SC2 really isn't anything like BW.  I want to know... does every BW follower feel like this? Did you want SC2 to be a BW remake? Or did you just want that BW feel (for example all the current units in SC2 but with the BW mechanics)? What happened to the foreign BW community? just a few questions A lot of us appreciated BW for several reasons. 1. It had a really high skill cap (so winning gave you the most badass feeling in the world). This meant that automining didn't exist, hotkeys were super important, and macroing and microing took a lot of effort. In SC2, the skill cap is lower and as a result, the feeling of badassery disappears. 2. The races were dynamic and interesting. Each one of them had different dynamics that made them special. In SC2, it's pretty much the same: summon a ball of units and attack. Whoever wins the swings end up winning. I'd elaborate more, but I don't think I really need to. 3. Skills required skills. People would scream "plaguuuuuu!!!!" or "STORMMMUUUUU" or "MINE MINE MINES" because people would plague amazingly, place storms in the most critical of places, and mine up in a clever way, that it showed that it required great foresight and skill to do. In SC2, it's spam the hotkey with your templar, press the T button and just press your mouse a few times. Same thing with infestors and most other spell units. (this kind of goes with point one, but I felt like it deserved its separate part). 4. SC2 visuals are bad (as in actually trying to watch the game, not graphics). In BW, the visuals looked awesome because you could clearly see battles (even with less graphic appeal). In SC2, everything tightens into a ball. The only thing you see is the stim, or the blink, or the banelings. There's nothing much after that. 5. SC2 units are dumb. We feel the marauder is a dumb unit, or the stalker is a retarded unit, or the infestor will never replace the defiler. Hellions are dumb. Medivacs don't make sense. This game is just filled with units that we don't like. These are only some reasons why. SO yeah. Pick whichever one, and you get a good combo of why we don't like SC2.
it seems you didn't read my post.
I asked if you wanted SC2 to be a BW remake or a feel alike.I also wanted to know what happened to the foreigner community. I'm aware of all of the flaws you have listed about SC2 and completely agree with them.
so try to answer my questions again
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I also found it funny that they had to upgrade their computers to run SC2. I think GSL will stick around though. Unless MSL and OSL include it too.
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Awesome! this will be so sick if it happens. Hooray for Esports!
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On October 20 2011 08:17 leo23 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 08:00 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 20 2011 07:53 leo23 wrote:On October 20 2011 06:17 Angra wrote:On October 20 2011 06:01 Pelopidas wrote:
I played SC2 for a while but stopped once I realized that Blizzard was more concerned with the way casuals view the game than the actual game play experience. Now it seems that something I tried to get away from has chased me to my last refuge, and set it on fire. I just want BW to be left alone. Why is it so important that BW players switch to SC2? Why can't you SC2 fans just be happy that you get constant coverage of games from players all over the world?
It really irritates me that Blizzard has managed to astroturf a commercialized imitation of the eSports scene that sprung up spontaneously in Korea. By funding huge prize pools, and by using the name Starcraft, Blizzard managed to have the entire noncompetitive foreigner scene, many B teamers, and washed up pros switch to SC2. In my opinion many fans were duped into feeling like they were participating in something like the early days of Brood War, like they were blazing a trail for an eSports scene in the west. Instead it feels as if Blizzard is using the scene as a gigantic advertisement to sell more copies of SC2, while collecting a large percentage of tournament profits on the side. Blizzard, in attempt to parallel the way they were able to dominate the MMO genre with WoW, has created an RTS with its edges worn off, and have enriched their coffers, while gaining publicity, and recognition, with a competitive scene that attempts to parrot.
To me the game is far too different from Brood War to be its true successor. Even so, I would be willing to accept and tolerate it as long as Brood War was left alone. Now, however, Blizzards tendrils have started to touch something I hold dear, I don't know what to do. It seems I am forced to sit idle while something I enjoy is torn apart in the name of Activision-Blizzard's bottom line. I'm assuming you're going to get a lot of hate for this post, and while I don't share the exact same feelings as you, I completely understand what you mean and am in like 90% agreement with you. SC2 really isn't anything like BW. I want to know... does every BW follower feel like this? Did you want SC2 to be a BW remake? Or did you just want that BW feel (for example all the current units in SC2 but with the BW mechanics)? What happened to the foreign BW community? just a few questions A lot of us appreciated BW for several reasons. 1. It had a really high skill cap (so winning gave you the most badass feeling in the world). This meant that automining didn't exist, hotkeys were super important, and macroing and microing took a lot of effort. In SC2, the skill cap is lower and as a result, the feeling of badassery disappears. 2. The races were dynamic and interesting. Each one of them had different dynamics that made them special. In SC2, it's pretty much the same: summon a ball of units and attack. Whoever wins the swings end up winning. I'd elaborate more, but I don't think I really need to. 3. Skills required skills. People would scream "plaguuuuuu!!!!" or "STORMMMUUUUU" or "MINE MINE MINES" because people would plague amazingly, place storms in the most critical of places, and mine up in a clever way, that it showed that it required great foresight and skill to do. In SC2, it's spam the hotkey with your templar, press the T button and just press your mouse a few times. Same thing with infestors and most other spell units. (this kind of goes with point one, but I felt like it deserved its separate part). 4. SC2 visuals are bad (as in actually trying to watch the game, not graphics). In BW, the visuals looked awesome because you could clearly see battles (even with less graphic appeal). In SC2, everything tightens into a ball. The only thing you see is the stim, or the blink, or the banelings. There's nothing much after that. 5. SC2 units are dumb. We feel the marauder is a dumb unit, or the stalker is a retarded unit, or the infestor will never replace the defiler. Hellions are dumb. Medivacs don't make sense. This game is just filled with units that we don't like. These are only some reasons why. SO yeah. Pick whichever one, and you get a good combo of why we don't like SC2. it seems you didn't read my post. I asked if you wanted SC2 to be a BW remake or a feel alike.I also wanted to know what happened to the foreigner community. I'm aware of all of the flaws you have listed about SC2 and completely agree with them. so try to answer my questions again
My bad. 
Actually, to your actual question then, I'm not sure what was the overall consensus as to what we wanted SC2 to be. We were all hyped for SC2, that's for sure. We just didn't like the final product.
I guess there's no definitive answer.
It's my bad for taking your post the wrong way. I thought:
"Did you want SC2 to be a BW remake? Or did you just want that BW feel (for example all the current units in SC2 but with the BW mechanics)?"
Alluded to what we wanted BW to be. So I just listed some of the qualities that SC2 was missing.s
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On October 20 2011 08:02 gn0m wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 07:52 BlazeFury01 wrote:On October 20 2011 07:51 tyr wrote:On October 20 2011 07:47 GhandiEAGLE wrote:On October 20 2011 02:34 bgx wrote:so basically b-teamers will have the job ?  edit: i dont see any real a-teamer to switch but countless b-teamers/practice partners would change to pursue this as their career (idra example) Dude I think IdrA has moved past B-teamer... If placing fourth at MLG beating bomber, boxer, and tying with MKP, and then winning Ghangzou, does not qualify as an "A-teamer," I do not know what does Idra was a B-teamer. I don't see how his accomplishments in SC2 will change anything he did during his CJ BW career, and he might have been the best foreigner hands down, he still was a b-teamer in CJ. In SC1 IdrA was clearly a B if not C teamer. He didn't get any team televised matches or anything and by Korean standards he was considered the worst in the league. Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 07:54 dukethegold wrote:
I honestly believe SC2 brought out the hidden potential within the suppressed ex-BW B teamers such as MKP, MVP, ZergBong, Idra, etc. The current BW A-team will not fare significantly better than the current SC2 roster. It will be competitive.
The BW S-team roster is another story altogether, but let's avoid the topic... Some people here seem to be confused. A-teamer/B-teamer isn’t a measurement of skill per se. Being an A-teamer means that you are on the proleague rooster while a B-teamer cannot participate in proleague. There is no such thing as C-teamer or S-teamer. This should not be confused with the term S-class player, which is just a loose term for the best players around. Just thought I should clarify this 
Eh, I disagree. A-teamer and B-teamer ARE classifications of skills.
Being on A-team necessarily means performing better than a B-teamer, be it in house or televised. After all, they decide who's on A/B team based on both performances.
That said, an A-teamer is NOT an A-class player. IE: Leta is A-class. Hyuk, not so much.
As for the news itself, I'm ambivalent about it. On one hand, it's great for SC2 fans. On the other hand, I really don't care. I know I won't get up to watch it. As long as it doesn't displace BW, I guess I'm happy for it. :D
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not sure if this is a good thing. It's good that BW is on the way out so SC2 can take over completely and so better quality of players and less BW purists around, but bad in that the BW purists will now be more vocal in their annoying complaints about the quality of sc2
User was warned for this post
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Perhaps this is the best move i think. i mean lets face it. esports hasn't been in great shape at all. but this might probably affect gsl more than it would affect bw.
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SC2 didn't need to be a BW remake i don't know why people always use that strawman. Just because people point out things like, lack of the qualities of a unit like the reaver, it doesn't mean it has to be a reaver they have in SC2. Just something, anything that produces the same excitement and fun of use. Not just a shitload of simple DPS units.
Anyway I don't think this is even news or should be unexpected to anyone. Did you really think they weren't considering the possibility? It's still not going to force popularity of the game. People in Korea know about SC2, they have just chosen not to play or follow it. BW has the sponsors, the playerbase and the fans of that playerbase. Also how appropriate will KeSPA even deem the game when it's constantly being patched and changed? It's a step up from the GSL, if there's reasons the game isn't suitable they won't be easily as ignored.
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*nerd squee* SC2 may be bigger in for foreigners than it is in Korea, but this should hopefully help boost esports
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wow so in an year or something i think a lot of bw pros might do the switch..but i'm really sad that bw might die quite fast too, i don't want that to happen t.t
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On October 20 2011 08:20 Geosensation wrote:
not sure if this is a good thing. It's good that BW is on the way out so SC2 can take over completely and so better quality of players and less BW purists around, but bad in that the BW purists will now be more vocal in their annoying complaints about the quality of sc2
Why is it a good thing that BW is on its way out?
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On October 20 2011 08:20 Geosensation wrote:
not sure if this is a good thing. It's good that BW is on the way out so SC2 can take over completely and so better quality of players and less BW purists around, but bad in that the BW purists will now be more vocal in their annoying complaints about the quality of sc2
Take over whaT? eSports is dying there. nothign 2 take over. BW goes down in korea with esports.
but atleast u need players from a different game 2 get good players :D stronk players u have in SC2.
User was warned for this post
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I really want to see more BW players whow the public what they can do in sc2... just to see how they would do. I hope players like Flash and Jaedong don't switch because in my opinion, it's a waste of talent when they are such revolutionaries in BW.
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SC2 needed to have less terribad units like the Roach, Maruader, Colossus.
SC2 needs more defender's advantage.
SC2 needs less mobile armies and more positional ones.
SC2 needs less unit clumping.
SC2 needs stronger, more skillful spells.
SC2 needs less rocks. Destructible rocks blocking expos in the map design is like a huge WTF, lmao.
It was really surprising that SC2 turned out as bad as it did. It was a total shock to me when I saw a video with Dustin Browder talking about how they had no overall plan for SC2 balance and just threw in Units and tested them and hoped they worked. That's the exact opposite of the careful thinking that should've been done.
As a game no it didn't need to be an exact clone of BW. But it needed to be good. Sadly it was bad.
But for esports to be meaningful yes it needed to be an exact clone of BW, simply because you can't call it a sport if you plan for it to die every 10 years. Nobody would be able to make a career out of it then.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Dear elitists and purists, I think there's nothing to worry about. You know the worst thing that endager BW is ignorance. But Koreans do know BW very well so they will asses the game with eyes that saw the glorious BW matches.
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As long as it doesn't overlap BW, I'm all for it.
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EPT
