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On February 06 2005 15:03 Patriot.dlk wrote:
He earned it by playing like hell.. Its almost a insult calling him talented really... Its like neji vs rock lee fealing.. Not fair having talent =P
I hope you do know it better than me because I LOVE rock lee and his attitude. But after all nothing really works without talent, or do you think that other players from his era didn't train hardcore as well ? Why didn't they reach such fame as he did ?
On February 06 2005 15:39 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Arrogance or realism? who knows. I just felt like digging up some results since I doubt anyone remembers them.
exaggerated modesty clouds reality just as well.
sometimes when I see such discussions and you are left out it seems to me that you aren't counted to the extreme oldschoolers like maynard, slayer, sven etc. and that people make a cut after them, developing an attitude of "after them there is nothing", when you were just on your way to success.
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I'm actually shocked that anyone would put Legionnaire above Nazgul-that's not to say that he doesn't deserve a piece of the limelight-but Nazgul easily surpasses Legionnaire in notoriety and possibly skill if you can somehow guage today's skill in proportion to the skill level a couple of years ago. Seriously, this just goes to show you how fleeting are the memories of people and how important it is to keep your name from sliding into obscurity.
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naz is a great player too, id consider him best pvt ever amongst him grrr smuft and saft -.-V
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Grrr
Elky
Slayer
Nazgul
NTT
this is the list, and the order ^.~
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On February 06 2005 15:03 Patriot.dlk wrote:
Stupid thing to say. Talent is when you gain skill really fast. Something SaFT didn't do. He earned it by playing like hell.. Its almost a insult calling him talented really... Its like neji vs rock lee fealing.. Not fair having talent =P
I dont know about that, he got realy good at the game from the start in a short period of time... thats raw skillz imo...
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Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
On February 06 2005 16:33 Bizkit wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2005 15:03 Patriot.dlk wrote:
Stupid thing to say. Talent is when you gain skill really fast. Something SaFT didn't do. He earned it by playing like hell.. Its almost a insult calling him talented really... Its like neji vs rock lee fealing.. Not fair having talent =P
I dont know about that, he got realy good at the game from the start in a short period of time... thats raw skillz imo...
No he didn't?
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Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
On February 06 2005 15:39 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Grrrr
Elky
Slayer/myself
NTT
Grrr and Elky should really speak for themselves. If you think about there's noone who is able to claim one of their spots in this list.
Possible changes that I would consider are switching myself one position with Slayer and maybe replacing NTT with someone I cannot think of right now.
For people wondering how I dare to considering myself equal to Slayer (which I don't per definition - I think it's a tossup and understand anyone picking him over me, but the other way aroudn as well)
I won WCG NLD three times (Slayer won WCG Norway zero times though to his credit only two tries of which 1 when he was active) including a 4-1 win over NTT (included on most lists) and many wins over Strafe/Twisted/Ret
5th in 2001 (wins over Tomson Fisheye Gundam MTY CQ2000 ending up 5th with that)
7th in 2002
1st in two of the earlier WGTour seasons, got second in the 3rd (2-3 final vs Saft)
1st two TL tournaments, got second in the third
1st PGChallenge 2003 in Prague (Socke Daaman Fisheye Destroyer)
1st OsloLAN 2003 (splitted 1st, we never played the final due to misserable organization)
This is a list excluding anything I have done in Korea to make it fair. Probably forgetting some stuff as well. I'd say that should give Slayer a run for his money.
Arrogance or realism? who knows. I just felt like digging up some results since I doubt anyone remembers them.
Slayer played 0 wcg's when he was active, he practiced a VERY tiny bit before the one i 2001 when he thought he had missed his shot but wcg allowed sven/slayer/arch and i believe zealot to play for a spot since the qualifiers were in stockholm. And NTT wasn't very active when you played your series against him? If you knew how much he played when he was active you wouldn't say so 
Slayers KBK win is probably one of the greatest achievments any foreigner has ever done, he did it among a HORDE of really strong koreans, that's miles before a top10 finish in a wcg with 3/4 koreans and about 10-15 good foreigners. Saft has won quite many european tournaments so if you place yourself equal to slayer (who has also won a fair amount of them) you should no doubt put him above NTT who apart from his #3 WCGC didn't really accomplish that much in big tournaments. I hope the guy who said he did well in kbk meant getting to korea, because he didn't do well in the finals.
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On February 06 2005 16:16 TreK[cF] wrote:
I dont think Elky accomplished much either he was simply not good enough for the koreans altho he got 2nd in wcg once which probably was his greatest performance. Maynard the same he was an awesome gamer but these 2 couldnt compete with the games per day the koreans were doing.
not god enough?you re jokking?
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1. Grrrr- For a long time there were more foreigner starleague champs than korean zerg starleague champs, and I've seen him beat nada more than once
2. Elky- 4th place OSL
I heard somewhere that saft beat xellos 3-0 a long time ago...
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On February 06 2005 16:16 TreK[cF] wrote:eVERLAST was the first foreign progamer in korea but he wasnt anything special and couldnt compete at a higherlevel over there and became more of a commentatoryguy and did other various things i think... Skillwise SaFT was one of the best in his time but he didnt get many chances to prove himself but the GAME-Q tournament which was cancelled and in WCG he kind of blew it. Id say sweden was the best gaming nation at one time...-99 or -00 with daaman multi straylight and 5th clan and a little later )Si( nd ~yyr so i could easily place 10 swedes in top 20 world on an early stage and i think daaman could agree on that :p (atleast his personal favourite multifaith). I dont think Elky accomplished much either he was simply not good enough for the koreans altho he got 2nd in wcg once which probably was his greatest performance. Maynard the same he was an awesome gamer but these 2 couldnt compete with the games per day the koreans were doing. Whoever DONT place slayer as 2nd after GRRR is pretty ignorant...slayer was probably the worlds best player when he played ACTIVE and he learned the game fast...as daaman did but im pretty sure everyone agrees that GRRR has had most achevements and also had the coolest playstyle ... so 1. GRRR 2. Slayer other than that we have nobody who has shown themself outside korea that can win on a regular basis vs koreans. So id rather have top 5 cool gamingstyles (of foreigners) ! 1. NTT ( nobody can disagree on that ) 2. Grrr ( the grrr exp was awesome when u saw old mpegs of it on bw.com ) 3. Tsunami ( he could easily win games with units that nobody used and played really different ) 4. Satanik ( satanik is a do or die strategy user very often and has really funny strategies too ) 5. Smuft ( id say smufts canon mannering made me laugh alot of times when watching -.-V ) id say these 5 have a natural talent and creativity that makes broodwar fun too watch....everyone else, including me, are pretty much mainstream and its kinda boring that ppl like us can catch up to these players so fast with alot of games per day or replays per day that talent doesnt mean as much....cause seriously we all know...boxer and yellow are the most "TALENTED" broodwar players  ~
trek , elky is 2nd without doubt , ur arrogance is pretty high. he also got 4th in an ongamenet starleague , he won more progamers live than probably grrr himself. He owned hot forever and made him look like a newbie z vs t.
and for the idiots that said testie , lets check hes accomplishments:
-2nd in wcg canada after like 3000050606932950249509982945 tries
-top 16 i think in wcg. (considering there were 4 wcgs before this , there are 40 more players with more accomplishments than him)
-Caught hacking various times , and him , like mr trek , denied it to dead till the proves showed it.
in contrast Grrr elky Slayer fisheye NTT nazgul and leg (it was roxxor when he owned the entire pantel curichel or something liek that proteam).
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If you read the posts the one that mentioned me said "discluding accomplishments." If you read Treks post he said "id rather have top 5 cool gamingstyles (of foreigners) !"
Read before you post k3fka.
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i wouldnt put nazgul there only because i think his WCG performances were very very dissapointing.
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"I dont think Elky accomplished much either he was simply not good enough for the koreans altho he got 2nd in wcg once which probably was his greatest performance. Maynard the same he was an awesome gamer but these 2 couldnt compete with the games per day the koreans were doing".
i think getting 4th in an ongamente starleague is the 2nd best accomplishment made ever by a non korean. (winning it by grrr of course is the best one.)
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Correction, read before you post Testie.
However, there was no need to do all that Testie bashing. I've seen enough of it. And in my defense this is the only WCG i've ever practiced for.
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On February 06 2005 16:16 TreK[cF] wrote:So id rather have top 5 cool gamingstyles (of foreigners) ! 1. NTT ( nobody can disagree on that ) 2. Grrr ( the grrr exp was awesome when u saw old mpegs of it on bw.com ) 3. Tsunami ( he could easily win games with units that nobody used and played really different ) 4. Satanik ( satanik is a do or die strategy user very often and has really funny strategies too ) 5. Smuft ( id say smufts canon mannering made me laugh alot of times when watching -.-V ) id say these 5 have a natural talent and creativity that makes broodwar fun too watch....everyone else, including me, are pretty much mainstream and its kinda boring that ppl like us can catch up to these players so fast with alot of games per day or replays per day that talent doesnt mean as much....cause seriously we all know...boxer and yellow are the most "TALENTED" broodwar players
couldnt agree more, but of those only sataNik is actively playing now, right ? or am i wrong?
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Norway28804 Posts
1: grrr
speaks for itself
2: slayer
he accomplished something no other nonkoreans did after grrr, he became the worlds best player and won a huge live tournament in korea where the best koreans participated. this is _far_ better than getting #2 in wcg, hell, winning kbk was harder than winning wcg. and it was even his first important lan tournament. in addition he won most online tourneys he played in at the same time. he was *not* active before the wcg he lost against sven, and even regardless of that, sven was also one of the worlds best players when he lost against him. and the wcg he lost against me, well, he had been gone for 18 months, played a fair amount, but not a LOT for 6 months, and was still the second best player there. he made the
3. elky
once again shouldn't need any explanation
4. naz
5. dunno
maybe ntt, maybe saft, hell even asmodey is a valid choice. actually asmodey is a very valid choice if you're going by accomplishments, not if you're going by skill though. but accomplishments wise I'd give it to asmo. leg also has a couple of nice ones, like the destruction of a full team. you could also pick d22-soso and some of the other extremely oldschool players.
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i don't know too much but...
- Grrr....
- Elky
- Slayer
- NTT
- Nazgul
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On February 06 2005 16:59 Nal_Testie wrote:
Correction, read before you post Testie.
However, there was no need to do all that Testie bashing. I've seen enough of it. And in my defense this is the only WCG i've ever practiced for.
Allright so you chose to not practice for those WCGs, but all the other 51 weeks every year ?
IQ up plz.
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On February 06 2005 16:43 Dealer wrote:Slayer played 0 wcg's when he was active, he practiced a VERY tiny bit before the one i 2001 when he thought he had missed his shot but wcg allowed sven/slayer/arch and i believe zealot to play for a spot since the qualifiers were in stockholm. And NTT wasn't very active when you played your series against him? If you knew how much he played when he was active you wouldn't say so Slayers KBK win is probably one of the greatest achievments any foreigner has ever done, he did it among a HORDE of really strong koreans, that's miles before a top10 finish in a wcg with 3/4 koreans and about 10-15 good foreigners. Saft has won quite many european tournaments so if you place yourself equal to slayer (who has also won a fair amount of them) you should no doubt put him above NTT who apart from his #3 WCGC didn't really accomplish that much in big tournaments. I hope the guy who said he did well in kbk meant getting to korea, because he didn't do well in the finals.
Well PERSONALLY I haven't heard of any of Safts tournament wins except for WGTour once and that Nordic tournament where he beat Slayer in the final. Maybe I am missinformed but you could help out with that?
I was playing with NTT every day when we had to play for our WCG, I'm quite sure he was active 
What I meant with Slayer being active is that it was played in the day many considered him the best (one of the) best non-koreans. It's impossible to count by hand how many games each player practiced for what, I mean, what?. Everyone was stunned when they heard Sven had qualified from the Nordic WCG. That spot was basically created to get Slayer in Korea. Everyone was stunned except for the people that knew Slayer and Sven personally.
I am fully, fully aware that Slayers KBK finish is huge, bigger than a top 10 WCG finish by alot. Thought that was pretty clear but if not then I just emphasized it again.
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I don't see how some people can not have Elky at second place. Starleague is the greatest tournament and he did really well for a long period of time. Didn't he even have the record for most wins in a row at some time? I can understand putting someone like Slayer ahead of him if going by talent or skill, but not in accomplishments. One tournament win vs top competition just isn't enough when looking at Elky's record.
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EPT
