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On February 06 2005 17:54 Famouzze wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2005 17:52 Dealer wrote:On February 06 2005 17:50 Famouzze wrote:
btw in my not-so-humble opinion NTT is by far the most overrated bw player of all time. no way does he deserve to be in top 5 of all time list, MAYBE top 50. maybe it was just something about my style vs his but i played him many times in his prime and he never impressed me. he reminds me of hovz more than someone like slayer - his mouth faster than his mouse. The only play faster than NTT outside of Korea was Slayer, so he certainly didn't fail on mousespeed.  Though, you know nothing about what you speak. maybe at hitting the S key. but even if he was as fast as Nada it wouldn't be able to keep up with his mouth. like i said i played NTT numerous times in his prime, so i'd like to know on what basis you say I know nothing of what i speak?
just cause u played someone more than once doesnt make u know everything about a person right ? it was hard cuz reps came out so late ppl couldnt see all of NTT's style until very late...im sure dealer knows alot about NTT that we others dont cuz they simply were very good friends i guess
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testie , i didnt mean to bash u , but some assholes just cant understand it other way.
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Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
On February 06 2005 17:54 Famouzze wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2005 17:52 Dealer wrote:On February 06 2005 17:50 Famouzze wrote:
btw in my not-so-humble opinion NTT is by far the most overrated bw player of all time. no way does he deserve to be in top 5 of all time list, MAYBE top 50. maybe it was just something about my style vs his but i played him many times in his prime and he never impressed me. he reminds me of hovz more than someone like slayer - his mouth faster than his mouse. The only play faster than NTT outside of Korea was Slayer, so he certainly didn't fail on mousespeed. Though, you know nothing about what you speak. maybe at hitting the S key. but even if he was as fast as Nada it wouldn't be able to keep up with his mouth. like i said i played NTT numerous times in his prime, so i'd like to know on what basis you say I know nothing of what i speak?
And what if he only screwed around against you? Wouldn't be surprising from him. Why would the games against you even matter? Unless of course you show me the tournament where he lost to you.
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On February 06 2005 17:52 TreK[cF] wrote:
haha blackman druguser? i thought he went to some vampiric underground club and semi died or something :o
no shit man...
one of the reps that have impressed me the most BLACKMAN VS HELLGHOST WCG2002... he overcomes bunker rush so perfectly, by minute 14 he has total map control overlords and lings everywhere, then he sends like 3-4 overlords to HELLGHOST's main to try to fool him's gonna drop just to ambush him on his choke with countless hydras, lurkers.
That rep made me see BLACKMAN had something special going on. He controls units like with his mind, he makes it all look so easy...
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Best player 99: Soso/Maynard/Grrrrr
Best player 00: Grrrrr/Slayer/NTT
Best player 01: Slayer/Sven/Smuft/Grrrrr
Best player 02: Sven/Elky/Saft/Asmodey/Fisheye
Best player 03: Elky/Blackman/Fisheye/Smuft
Best player 04: ToT)Mondragon(/Androide
This isnt all based on accomplishments, but these players were the hottest those years. And yes i know Blackman placed 3rd in 2002 WCG, but he was undoubtly one of the most feared players back then. Smuft had a down period after his first Korea apperance, then came back and walked over everyone in WDT. Saft was with Sven probably the best foreigner in late 01 to middle 02.
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On February 06 2005 17:58 Dealer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2005 17:54 Famouzze wrote:On February 06 2005 17:52 Dealer wrote:On February 06 2005 17:50 Famouzze wrote:
btw in my not-so-humble opinion NTT is by far the most overrated bw player of all time. no way does he deserve to be in top 5 of all time list, MAYBE top 50. maybe it was just something about my style vs his but i played him many times in his prime and he never impressed me. he reminds me of hovz more than someone like slayer - his mouth faster than his mouse. The only play faster than NTT outside of Korea was Slayer, so he certainly didn't fail on mousespeed. Though, you know nothing about what you speak. maybe at hitting the S key. but even if he was as fast as Nada it wouldn't be able to keep up with his mouth. like i said i played NTT numerous times in his prime, so i'd like to know on what basis you say I know nothing of what i speak? And what if he only screwed around against you? Wouldn't be surprising from him. Why would the games against you even matter? Unless of course you show me the tournament where he lost to you.
http://www.battlereports.com/viewreplays.php?replaynum=3384
On February 06 2005 17:57 TreK[cF] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2005 17:54 Famouzze wrote:On February 06 2005 17:52 Dealer wrote:On February 06 2005 17:50 Famouzze wrote:
btw in my not-so-humble opinion NTT is by far the most overrated bw player of all time. no way does he deserve to be in top 5 of all time list, MAYBE top 50. maybe it was just something about my style vs his but i played him many times in his prime and he never impressed me. he reminds me of hovz more than someone like slayer - his mouth faster than his mouse. The only play faster than NTT outside of Korea was Slayer, so he certainly didn't fail on mousespeed. Though, you know nothing about what you speak. maybe at hitting the S key. but even if he was as fast as Nada it wouldn't be able to keep up with his mouth. like i said i played NTT numerous times in his prime, so i'd like to know on what basis you say I know nothing of what i speak? just cause u played someone more than once doesnt make u know everything about a person right ? it was hard cuz reps came out so late ppl couldnt see all of NTT's style until very late...im sure dealer knows alot about NTT that we others dont cuz they simply were very good friends i guess
so what? dealer knew him better so my observations of him are completely wrong?
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Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
On February 06 2005 17:57 TreK[cF] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2005 17:54 Famouzze wrote:On February 06 2005 17:52 Dealer wrote:On February 06 2005 17:50 Famouzze wrote:
btw in my not-so-humble opinion NTT is by far the most overrated bw player of all time. no way does he deserve to be in top 5 of all time list, MAYBE top 50. maybe it was just something about my style vs his but i played him many times in his prime and he never impressed me. he reminds me of hovz more than someone like slayer - his mouth faster than his mouse. The only play faster than NTT outside of Korea was Slayer, so he certainly didn't fail on mousespeed. Though, you know nothing about what you speak. maybe at hitting the S key. but even if he was as fast as Nada it wouldn't be able to keep up with his mouth. like i said i played NTT numerous times in his prime, so i'd like to know on what basis you say I know nothing of what i speak? just cause u played someone more than once doesnt make u know everything about a person right ? it was hard cuz reps came out so late ppl couldnt see all of NTT's style until very late...im sure dealer knows alot about NTT that we others dont cuz they simply were very good friends i guess
Im quite certain that i've played him more games than anyone, he was almost the only player i practiced PvT against, but he was always willing to play 20 games in a row if you didn't piss him off (then he would leave for an hour saying he would never play again and message on icq "lets play?" after that)
Though McNasty might be right behind me!
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let's see some ntt reps corb
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ahhh another NTT rep thx ! :D
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surprised NTT didnt leave when he got 6 :s
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Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
On February 06 2005 18:01 Famouzze wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2005 17:58 Dealer wrote:On February 06 2005 17:54 Famouzze wrote:On February 06 2005 17:52 Dealer wrote:On February 06 2005 17:50 Famouzze wrote:
btw in my not-so-humble opinion NTT is by far the most overrated bw player of all time. no way does he deserve to be in top 5 of all time list, MAYBE top 50. maybe it was just something about my style vs his but i played him many times in his prime and he never impressed me. he reminds me of hovz more than someone like slayer - his mouth faster than his mouse. The only play faster than NTT outside of Korea was Slayer, so he certainly didn't fail on mousespeed. Though, you know nothing about what you speak. maybe at hitting the S key. but even if he was as fast as Nada it wouldn't be able to keep up with his mouth. like i said i played NTT numerous times in his prime, so i'd like to know on what basis you say I know nothing of what i speak? And what if he only screwed around against you? Wouldn't be surprising from him. Why would the games against you even matter? Unless of course you show me the tournament where he lost to you. http://www.battlereports.com/viewreplays.php?replaynum=3384 Show nested quote +On February 06 2005 17:57 TreK[cF] wrote:On February 06 2005 17:54 Famouzze wrote:On February 06 2005 17:52 Dealer wrote:On February 06 2005 17:50 Famouzze wrote:
btw in my not-so-humble opinion NTT is by far the most overrated bw player of all time. no way does he deserve to be in top 5 of all time list, MAYBE top 50. maybe it was just something about my style vs his but i played him many times in his prime and he never impressed me. he reminds me of hovz more than someone like slayer - his mouth faster than his mouse. The only play faster than NTT outside of Korea was Slayer, so he certainly didn't fail on mousespeed. Though, you know nothing about what you speak. maybe at hitting the S key. but even if he was as fast as Nada it wouldn't be able to keep up with his mouth. like i said i played NTT numerous times in his prime, so i'd like to know on what basis you say I know nothing of what i speak? just cause u played someone more than once doesnt make u know everything about a person right ? it was hard cuz reps came out so late ppl couldnt see all of NTT's style until very late...im sure dealer knows alot about NTT that we others dont cuz they simply were very good friends i guess so what? dealer knew him better so my observations of him are completely wrong?
Hehe, i was kinda meaning a tournament with something at stake
He was super-creative and came up with stuff noone else did, they did work a lot better against koreans (who almost always did low eco trash those days). Ranking only on skill is hard though because i can agree with you that his TvZ was borderline horrible. But his TvT and TvP wasn't.
At least he matched the best koreans in those matchups, Rain/Zeus/Nada/TheMarine etc..
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On February 06 2005 18:04 TreK[cF] wrote:
ahhh another NTT rep thx ! :D
probably the crappiest replay with NTT in it ever  i'm not one to show off with replays especially a shit game like that where i admittedly got lucky, but dealer asked for a tournament win for me to back up my statement so...
dealer, i'm sure you've played NTT much more than me, i'm just sharing my general observation that NTT wasn't that good. i was never the best pvt, and ntt talked tons of shit while not playing nearly as well as his reputation had led me to believe he would. that's just what happened with me. i don't think he deserves to be mentioned alongside such as elky, grrr..., and slayer. just my opinion. and i did play him a bunch of times.
edit: and yes i was surprised too, he always left when he got 6 vs me in other games. i always gave him shit about it :D he thinks he's so elite but leaves every time he gets 6 or accidentally has an idle scv, pretty lame...
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After my post in which I included Elky in the top 5, I kinda second-guessed it. I'm not too sure, now, that Elky has many accomplishments other than becoming a pro-gamer and beating some really good players. I'm also very not aware of Slayers accomplishments because I wasn't that much into the game during his time, but I hear a lot of things.
This list, I believe, was based on accomplishments only, not so much skills. If that is the case, blackman shouldn't really be even thought of. The only thing he's done is participate like once in WCG and didn't make a big noise during the finals. He did have a good game v Boxer though. I think Fisheye has made a lot of accomplishments and should take #3 spot at least.
I agree w/ Trek though, there are some foreigners who I like to put on a different pedastal for their style of play and how interesting it is to watch them. Like Giyom and his 1 gate tech ---> expo strat almost all the time v Z's, and Smuft's double expo v Z. All in all, i'm not too sharp on some of the old-school bw players but I know at least, Giyom is best foreigner.
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Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
NTT however did one of the cutest things i've ever heard of in a tournament. Some tournament in paris in either the semis or final he played Elky and got 6 in the first game.
He said something like "this is lame, re?" which Elky answered "no" to. NTT then left the game and came back winning 2-1
For the people mentioning Fisheye he's one of a very few that's been really good almost all along, i think the first time i saw him play was back in late 99 or 2000 but already back then he was top5 germany and he's been ever since. To me it's like he was always among the very best foreigners, but never the best. And i really liked Fisheyes Terran A LOT more than his protoss
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Norway28719 Posts
elky is DEFINITELY top 3.
we're discussing if him or slayer is #2.
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yea fishies terr was creative, when u do cute stuff with terr exluding bunkerrush its called smart when u do stuff with toss its called cheese
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I'd have to say put Elky above Slayer. Perhaps they were roughly around the same skill, or slayer was better or elky was, but if you're going to go by accomplishments, stick to accomplishments. If someone was around for 3 years and accomplished more, that means they did more than someone who was around for 2 and did less regardless.
I'd say at the top of everyones list should be these two, without debate if you're going to go by accomplishments. They put in the time, they made the effort, and both of them hung around for quite some time.
#1 Grrrr
#2 Elky
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#1 is Maynard
The rest in no particular order: grr, zileas, tsunami, agent911
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Mr Dealer I agree Fisheye is a GREAT player, but no close to any of the ones involved here.
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EPT
