.

But I digress, I've watched a lot of matches, mainly casted by NukeTheStars, and I haven't been able to find much, if any, Queens used in professional play.

Why aren't they used by professional players?
I realize they are pretty weak for a spell-caster, but they must have something which professional players like Jaedong can use, right?

4vvhiplash7

South Africa392 Posts

May 14 2011 13:15 GMT

Actually there is a bit of a popularity at the moment with Queens vs Terran Mech... Watch a couple of the games from the Woongin Zerg (ZerO and Soulkey)... They seem to have using queens figured out... Maybe somebody else can post the links to the VODs so you can check them out.

Kipsate

Netherlands45349 Posts

May 14 2011 13:15 GMT

They have recently seen much use in ZvT against mech but they are:

100/100 in cost

Spawn broodlings cost a whopping 150 energy, so it takes a very long while to use them , in which time you are very vurnable. And if they get EMPed you are fucked in so many ways.

There are better options to fight against ZvP.

ZvZ does not reach the Hive and thus the queen stage very often.

Two recent games from soulkey against fantasy with the use of queens:

elf_01

United States168 Posts

May 14 2011 13:16 GMT

Queens have been used a little bit lately in progames, but in very specific situations:

1) The (extremely rare case of) Hive-Tech ZvZ, where the queen's ensnare both slows mutalisk attack and movement speeds and grants some degree of air superiority to the user (until devourers pop). This, however, is very rare due to the fact that the gas/minerals for the queen's nest (not sure if ensnare needs upgrading?) and the queens lead to diminished mutalisk numbers and the battle may be lost before the queens pop.

2) ZvTerran Mech. Used lately by (amongst others, but most notably) (Z)

Neo.G_Soulkey, Queens are used for their ability to broodling off tanks and keep the mech-ball's size manageable. Queen/Hydra/Defiler is a very strong composition against mech, as the main anti-dark-swarm measure against Hydras is tank splash.

Insight from: D- level zerg (feel free to correct me? this is just my thoughts)

J1.au

Australia3596 Posts

May 14 2011 13:19 GMT

EDIT: Videos already posted, wow people are quick!

Percutio

United States1672 Posts

May 14 2011 13:30 GMT

Well they have definitely had their uses in late game ZvZ due to the fact that ensnare lower the damage of the mutalisk cloud significantly and lowers their speed. Only problem here is that ZvZ rarely reaches the late game and it doesn't always mean a large air war (Although it can happen pretty easily). Example

In ZvP they can be used to snipe high templar with spawn broodlings, but this is a lot harder said than done and takes a lot of time. I would like to say that just sniping the templar with mutalisks would be easier and more practical. Example

But most interesting of all is their use in ZvT. Recently some Zerg players have been using queens to defeat mech switches from terrans. It is fairly solid if the Zerg player can gain some momentum with his queens. Still, this is not all that common and it is not the only way to beat the mech switch.

Taekwon

United States8155 Posts

May 14 2011 13:31 GMT

They are now being used quite often in the interval after bio transitions to mech. I can gaurantee that it'll become standard shortly. Once everyone other than SKZ learns it.... lol

Hijungle

Australia67 Posts

May 14 2011 13:39 GMT

Found an example with Soulkey, but it's against Leta.

chongu

Malaysia2594 Posts

May 14 2011 13:59 GMT

One of the earlier queen usage matches I've watched (vs bio mech terran). Fantasy vs Jaedong on Chupung ryung

edit: Weird youtube videos don't work when the URL given are for at a specific time : \

ymir233

United States8275 Posts

May 14 2011 14:12 GMT

#10

I know everyone says that this is just a troll build, but I actually see this as somewhat of an effective strategy against what I like to call 'slow' mech - that is, turtling with initial goliath tech on 2/3 bases instead of shooting dem vultures out.

This rapid infesting of the CCs one-by-one really is like a blitzkrieg:
-It minimizes the chance of harmful muta/goliath engagements on terran ground by moving from one CC to another quickly
-Cripples the Terran by putting them on at least 1/no mining bases right off the bat
-If they make a mistake and have less than 400 minerals....it's over.
-Decreases the chance of clutch repair by SCVs into goliath support since the mutas don't need to attack as much.

So far the only really effective strategy I've seen with Queens other than Ensnare. With Ensnare, there are a whole bunch of uses. If you watch the 1st set of the last MSL finals with great vs Hydra, there's this awe-inspiring moment where great gets queens + ensnare in ZvZ while getting third/Hive, attack's Hydra's third with his lings to distract Hydra's mutas, then backstabs Hydra's nat with his own mutas and snipes the spire WHILE using ensnare to trap Hydra's mutas in the middle of the map. Really smart usage and I think that sort of attack could even be used as sort of a 'timing attack' in Hive tech ZvZ.

Simplistik

2114 Posts

May 14 2011 14:21 GMT

#11

Here's a nice ZvP featuring queens:

aimaimaim

Philippines2167 Posts

May 14 2011 14:31 GMT

#12

Queens are imba against the princesstoss

oBlade

United States6015 Posts

May 14 2011 14:34 GMT

#13

You used to see queens more often when Protoss air was popular, and sometimes against T air. P air is less popular now and a lategame Protoss army is almost exclusively ground. But it can still happen: if I were playing PvZ on Triathlon I'd consider sair/carrier as a lategame option. If any ZvZ goes long enough, you will always see queens enter the battlefield. They're also a BM option if you want to infest some CCs (pros have done this, I mean).

FlaShFTW

United States10357 Posts

May 14 2011 14:50 GMT

#14

PvZ: Most commonly pulled off by ZerO (god he wants EVERY EXCUSE to make queens) when the Toss heavily invests in HT. Broodling and rush in with mass hydras to cripple army.

TvZ: Most zerg use this build vs Fantasy because of his lack of skill in handling Bio xD Queens rush in first with hydras right behind. queens broodling tanks, and if no tanks, goliaths. hydras rape through goliaths.

ZvZ: hardly uses, if anything, its for ensnare. check out Jaedong vs Yellow

aimaimaim

Philippines2167 Posts

May 14 2011 14:58 GMT

#15

On May 14 2011 23:50 FlaShFTW wrote:
PvZ: Most commonly pulled off by ZerO (god he wants EVERY EXCUSE to make queens) when the Toss heavily invests in HT. Broodling and rush in with mass hydras to cripple army.

Also, if you saw that Ace match between bisu and zero, Ensaring units can lessen the mobility of the roaming zealots.

blubbdavid

Switzerland2412 Posts

May 14 2011 15:02 GMT

#16

And I hope you saw this
thread.

Percutio

United States1672 Posts

May 14 2011 15:04 GMT

#17

ZvZ late game the ensnare against the muta cloud also transitions into broodlings against ultras in the late game.

Chef

10810 Posts

May 14 2011 15:25 GMT

#18

This is possibly the worst time you ask your question, since Queens are actually being used quite a bit lately haha.

I suggest you try watching a few of the Korean VODs. I know it's not English, but you're really missing out if you don't hear the Koreans screaming about reavers and such. You tend to get a really good idea of what's meaningful in StarCraft by listening to the Korean's excitement, and it's pretty easy to figure out a few phrases and unit names to get the gist of what they're trying to point out.

infinity2k9

United Kingdom2397 Posts

May 14 2011 15:32 GMT

#19

At low levels, in ZvT, i've found that using little 'strike groups' of 11 lings and 1 queen to quickly make CC's into the Yellow then infest to be very effective. Cracklings take down health so quickly you can steal their CC's before they can even do anything about it, the SCV's simply cannot surround and repair it fast enough. It's not done in progames cause they have much better attention and multitask but i recommend trying it out if you play Z.

It must be frustrating as hell from T's perspective to lose a CC within seconds.

AsianEcksDragon

United States1036 Posts

May 14 2011 15:39 GMT

#20

I really doubt that Queens would become standard. Jaedong used them effectively a few years ago but decided that it just wasnt worth all the apm allocation. There are still many ways to deal with mech terran and if it becomes useful then people will just use bio which has always been the standard TvZ strat.