Two questions:
1.) Which race is it easiest/hardest to micro/macro with?
Hardest Micro - Zerg
Easiest - Protoss
Hardest Macro - Zerg (Of course this one can be argued greatly)
Easiest - Toss/Terran

and
2.) Which progamers have best micro/macro?

Micro - Boxer, Yellow, Nada, Chojja
Macro - Not too sure...

KiD[ReD]

Canada2103 Posts

February 08 2003 18:34 GMT

Hardest Micro
1. Terran
2. Zerg
3. Protoss

Protoss is so easy to micro, but 1 and 2 are fairly even in difficulty I think.

Hardest Macro
1. Terran
2. Zerg
3. Protoss

Which progamers have best micro macro?

Hmm...

Best Micro: YelloW, Nada, Grrr (Come on! He has best goon control in world!) and Jinnam!!

Macro: Reach, Yellow, Enough,

Liquid`Nazgul

22427 Posts

February 08 2003 19:09 GMT

Hardest Micro:

1. Terran
2. Protoss
3. Zerg

Little note is that I wonder how you can think microing is hard as zerg..? Hardest thing zerg will have to do is burrow lurkers :/

Hardest Macro:
No real difference here I think

Best micro: Boxer
Best macro: Gundam

TheSlowHand

Korea (South)177 Posts

February 08 2003 19:10 GMT

Best Micro: Boxer period. He's an "overmicro" guy.

I remember one of the OGN finals agains jinnam, where boxer just finished off an exp. w/ dropship and jinnam's mass hydras came for revenge. seven units made it on the dropship but one marine was left behind. With the dropship on its escape, with wave of hydras chasing, BoxeR STIMMED the sole marine and saved all eight units. I thought I was watching a movie.

Maybe boxer really cares about each and every unit he produces.. or maybe he thinks he is god.

KiD[ReD]

Canada2103 Posts

February 08 2003 19:29 GMT

I have a few comments to the last 2 posts:

To Nazgul:

Being a Terran-only player myself, I'm glad we both agree Terran has hardest time microing - I think though, for zerg, that they need to micro with lings (yellow is a good example) and hydra dance, and also muta harass..

TheSlowHand:

I've read somewhere that Boxer and his Manager truely believe that spending the extra time microing while saving money in the bank is better than letting those units die and spending the money..

personally i think that boxer micros a bit TOO much, and should spend/do whatever else more - basically im saying that his attention is usually 80% micro, and i think he should put it down to about 75% micro

Tien

Russian Federation4447 Posts

February 08 2003 19:44 GMT

I think hardest to micro would be terran and zerg. Like vultureboy said about mutas, hydras, and sometimes lings.

To Nazgul:

I don't really know how toss needs to micro that much, except pvt, all they need is to throw a few storms around. Zerg micro vs toss and terran is limited because there is just so much zerg can do before being stormed to death or tanked the hell out of. Using defilers requires a lot of micro aswell.
I agree however, that once ultras arrive you dont need that much micro but hydra dancing is requires a lot of attention.

Macro is definately zerg as the hardest. Zerg has to build expoes all over the map to fight the other races, and manage the expoes as well. I watched a blackman vs elky replay where blackman just throws hatcheries all over the map AND produce troops/drones from them consistantly.

CeltiC.MoOn

Germany160 Posts

February 08 2003 19:57 GMT

hardest micro:

1) terran
2) zerg
3) toss

hardest macro:

1) zerg
2) toss
3) terran

- best micro - -best macro-

terran: boxer, nada (NTT retired long ago..doh!) --a
toss: sonjjang, garimto saft (retired too..DOH!) --a
zerg: yellow, chojja cloud, yellow

Casper...

Liberia4948 Posts

February 08 2003 19:58 GMT

Two questions:
1.) Which race is it easiest/hardest to micro/macro with?
Hardest Micro - Terran
Easiest - Zerg
Hardest Macro - Terran
Easiest - Zerg

Zerg control and macro is easy. Hard part with zerg is strategy and decision making. With intensive micromanagement of zerg units there is a less prominant return in killing efficiency compared to terran, and to a lesser extent, protoss. Macro is super easy. You don't get penalized as much for controlling alot due to larva accumulation and you can hotkey produce so much more efficiently.

Terran control is hardest and pays off the most. Most terran units build fast so you need to go to base alot more often and there is a VERY visible penalty for forgetting to produce a cycle of units.

Protoss control pays off pretty well but is less difficult then terran. Protoss units build slow so macro is easier.

and
2.) Which progamers have best micro/macro?

Micro - Boxer, Yellow, Nada, Chojja, Elky, basically all starleague regulars.

Macro - Reach, HOT, Chrh, Nada, Yellow.

no1important

557 Posts

February 08 2003 20:05 GMT

Zerg late game macro owns
Zerg early game macro imo sux

Micro:
1. Terran
2. Protoss (pvz with temps (reavers maybe), Pvt with the shuttles, PvP with reaver shuttles + temps)
3. Hydra-Lurk vs T is only 1

Macro:
1. Zerg (late game)
2. Protoss
3. Terran

Micro: BoxeR Yellow Rain
Macro. All above and hasudrone blackman

Liquid.Venice

United States916 Posts

February 08 2003 20:19 GMT

#10

Im not going to just say this because im a protoss player, but over and over I see people post that protoss is the easiest race to micro with, the easiest to macro with, the easiest in general, and yet regarding pro gaming protoss players dont accomplish much.

I just find it sort of annoying.

tenbagger

United States1289 Posts

February 08 2003 20:25 GMT

#11

Naz, Its suprising that you think gundam has the best macro. I personally thought his micro was good (TvP not TvZ, his TvZ micro sucks) but his macro was relatively weak. Just curious what people's definition of macro is. If it means winning the economy battle, I think gundam is weak in macro, he usually expands as late as possible. Except one game from OGN, I remember he went triple CC!!! I foregt which map but it was an island map. He made 2 extra CC before barracks, what a gutsy move!

Quiksilver

United States424 Posts

February 08 2003 20:27 GMT

#12

well arent they the easiest micro because of the AI blizzard gave them?

Roman

United States2595 Posts

February 08 2003 21:03 GMT

#13

... Gundams micro is weak when it counts.

Roman

United States2595 Posts

February 08 2003 21:03 GMT

#14

BTW, Gundams money never accumulates, and his macro IS amazing... even though he usually 1-2 bases.

ky[Z]

China1730 Posts

February 08 2003 21:20 GMT

#15

Terran does take alot of micro indeed, but however, in TvP and TvT it is about the same micro as zerg and toss, it's TvZ that takes insane micro imo.

NewbieMcNasty

United States328 Posts

February 08 2003 21:23 GMT

#16

Gundam's macro and micro are both exceptional. However, his macro definately stands out. The reason gundam doesn't build many scvs and expand a lot is because he chooses not to, so this isn't at all considered bad macro. In fact it is the exact opposite. Gundam posseses the ability to transform foregone scv and CC costs into units that can be immediately used for an attacking advantage. Instead of building 3 extra scvs that will barely rake in extra minerals, gundam has 2 vultures which means 6 mines, which could definately mean the difference between winning or losing the battle for a key position (usually the spot outside the Protoss ramp).

The "constant peon" rule intermediate level players impose on themselves is generally ok, but eventually they will have to learn that if battling a player who skips some peons and macros perfectly, THEY WILL LOSE all battles in the middle until they have an expansion and the extra production facilities to make it worthwhile. This is why the gundam rush (4 marines, 2 scv, tank, vulture) is practically an auto win vs safe intermediate protoss users. They generally have the misconception that they can go constant probe, expand, and win a battle in the center against a 3 factory Terran. Expanding IS viable against this rush, just it involves either a secret expansion or elevating troops down from the initial plateau for a counterattack NOT simply attepting to directly force a break in the tank push.

^Shadow_Blade^

United States11 Posts

February 08 2003 23:09 GMT

#17

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm
Very well said

[GiTM]-Ace

United States4935 Posts

February 08 2003 23:43 GMT

#18

Ya i liked it too btu how do u know when to stop;) I think the key matchup where u stop making workers is pvp but is there an exact time ?

Casper...

Liberia4948 Posts

February 08 2003 23:55 GMT

#19

there is never an exact time on anything.
sc is nothing more then making good decisions over and over.

KiD[ReD]

Canada2103 Posts

February 09 2003 01:13 GMT

#20

Casper makes a good and true point.

This is one of the many reasons why I personally love BW. I also love chess, an intellectual game, and thus I like that BW takes a lot of thinking, not just a mindless game.

Casper mentions that sc takes good decision making. This can be proven by watching Pro's play - often average people will be flabbergasted by the strage things pro's do; things that may look newbish, such as cancelling a building to make something else (loss of money and time) or backing out of a long awaited plan such as a drop.

Part of the reason why Boxer can come back so well is not solely because of his micro, but because boxer is a very intelligent player - he is the most resourceful player (hey, something you can coin him Mensrea!) in the history of BW - and comes up with onorthadox but amazing ideas that for some odd reason, nobody else has thought of before.

Sorry.. just love this game ^^