EPTAoV iCCup Starleague Replay Sales - Page 5
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SolaR-
United States2685 Posts
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
As far as making money, 90% goes to another BW tournament. This is a good thing. If you disagree about the 10% going back to Game or noOne then I think we just have differing opinions. Yes, I know it sets it a precedent but 5-10% for organizing, finding sponsors, etc strikes me as reasonable. Chill/Day/Artosis et al. may not have asked for any money in return, but as I see it they certainly would have been more than deserving. The issue is that this community has a 10 year tradition of community projects being done for free. BWChart, RWAs, PenguinPlug, ChaosLauncher, WGTour, PGTour, iCCup, LMRB, and countless others. Now a few guys organize what must be the millionth tournament BW has had, and they want financial compensation for their 'hard work.' Those countless projects which not only needed hard work, but skilled persons to accomplish... That is, often someone who actually has training in programming. Yeah, it's just a little insulting to the rich tradition of BW Community History. It should have been 100%. It would have been dumb anyway, but at least it wouldn't have been insulting. Think about how much this game has given you, and how much this community has given you. There's is nothing you could possibly do that would get your out of your debt. That's why BW community projects are free  | ||
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trulla
Chile303 Posts
On April 11 2011 02:48 Chef wrote: The issue is that this community has a 10 year tradition of community projects being done for free. BWChart, RWAs, PenguinPlug, ChaosLauncher, WGTour, PGTour, iCCup, LMRB, and countless others. Now a few guys organize what must be the millionth tournament BW has had, and they want financial compensation for their 'hard work.' Those countless projects which not only needed hard work, but skilled persons to accomplish... That is, often someone who actually has training in programming. Yeah, it's just a little insulting to the rich tradition of BW Community History. I couldn't agree more. | ||
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Game
3191 Posts
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Navane
Netherlands2762 Posts
On April 10 2011 09:21 Shotcoder wrote: I don't see what the big deal about this is....I pretty much see it as "Donate $5 or $10 for the next tourny and receive replays to show our gratitude." But, w/e get all up and arms about $5 or $10 all you want. Exactly. Game has been doing a lot for foreigner broodwar where all the old heroes have jumped ship to sc2. I don't know where the BW love went with these guys. Many are just going where the flock is, to profit from the flock. If game ever wanted to profit, he'd gone sc2 too, for sure. If someone puts time and effort in BW right now, I'm not gonna question his intentions. | ||
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
The reason for this goes back to one of my earlier points, that I believe replays to be the players' creation and thus they "own" them and can decide what to do with them. Did you ask the players if they had a problem with you selling their replays? | ||
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masterbreti
Korea (South)2711 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:57 XsebT wrote: Yes, the situation is somewhat dire, but couldn't you just ask for donations instead? ...and make it 100% focused on upcoming tournament funds? (You can't use sc2 as an argument for staff payment). I thoroughly believe you would actually get more money that way. Of course, I don't know that for sure, but personally, I would never ever pay for a replay no matter the cause or players. I would, however, certainly donate some money if it would help the foreign scene bloom again in this dry season. The reason for this goes back to one of my earlier points, that I believe replays to be the players' creation and thus they "own" them and can decide what to do with them. Did you ask the players if they had a problem with you selling their replays? This. if all my $10 were going to the next tournament, i would for sure pay the $10. i understand things are in more need than before. but not bad enough to warrant payments for staff. | ||
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tryummm
774 Posts
That is $.003 per hour. Now I have doubt the average game will even be 10 minutes since games end after just a few seconds for lag/etc...but I think I made my point. Its not like Joekim/NoOne is going to make a fortune off 10% of $5. They only get $0.25 each per person who buys the replays. Anyways, someone will probably put the replays on a download site regardless, so it would probably be better to just release the replays for free and ask for donations? Its not like you hold copyright claims over the replays and can prevent someone from doing this. | ||
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masterbreti
Korea (South)2711 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:07 tryummm wrote: I think $5 for 9000 replays is completely fair. The replays are more for enjoyment, as you would be much better off watching free professional VODs on youtube if you were looking to grow in terms of skill. The replays can also help people strategically, if used wisely. If the average game was only 10 minutes, (9000 replays)(10 minutes) = 90,000 minutes = 1500 hours of entertainment for only $5. That is $.003 per hour. Now I have doubt the average game will even be 10 minutes since games end after just a few seconds for lag/etc...but I think I made my point. Its not like Joekim/NoOne is going to make a fortune off 10% of $5. They only get $0.25 each per person who buys the replays. Anyways, someone will probably put the replays on a download site regardless, so it would probably be better to just release the replays for free and ask for donations? Its not like you hold copyright claims over the replays and can prevent someone from doing this. its more than fair in terms of money for the replays. @Game, look, if you're willing not to take the 10% off my donation, i'd be more than willing to donate my money to the tournament for the replays. because i want to support bw tournaments. | ||
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Game
3191 Posts
On April 08 2011 18:54 Game wrote: P.S. all donations are welcome. | ||
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Shade[AoV]
United States43 Posts
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DejaVu119
United States131 Posts
1) Why are the number of people who are buying the replay pack anonymous?? If 90% of the proceeds are going to the next tournament, it should be VERY public how many replay packs are purchased to assure buyers that 90% is actually going to the next tournament(s). This is very much my number one concern. After certain periods of time, Game should be REQUIRED to PROVE the number of replay packs purchased (I'm sure you can come up with a way to keep the names of the people who purchased private). Since 10% of the proceeds are being pocketed, this is not a straight "donation" and should be public. 2) Is there a benefit to this purchased replay pack as opposed to other packs released by other tournaments? For example, is this replay pack very well organized by match-up, map, quality, etc.? If so, then adding a price to it makes some sense. 3) What's to stop one person from buying them and just releasing them to everyone else who wants it? I'm not particularly interested in the replays; it just seems like this is what is most likely going to happen. You don't actually "own" all the replays do you? Are you really going to go after someone who re-releases them? My main concern is outlined in point one. If that could be addressed, I would appreciate it. | ||
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soujiro_
Uruguay5195 Posts
try to get any tsl replay (not ladder) if you can -_- | ||
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MiraKul
Malaysia498 Posts
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DejaVu119
United States131 Posts
On April 26 2011 12:14 MiraKul wrote: ^^should have let the thread die and never be bumped again lol.. was wondering too who bought the reps... I disagree. If anyone bought the reps, they have a right to know they weren't lied to or scammed. That's all I'm really saying. Document what happens with the money. It's really not that hard. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On April 26 2011 12:11 soujiro_ wrote: just be happy he is releasing the replays for 5 dollars try to get any tsl replay (not ladder) if you can -_- Actually you can... | ||
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dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
-> Chef, he may be sarcastic but I don't agree that you guys call him a troll he's quite a genius and I believe an english major, so you can't win a war of words with him. The only problems are just the way that game operates. He might have good intentions but the actions taken are rather troublesome, i.e making everything suspicious and bm when already people don't like or trust his character. Donations and public effort (activity regularly, community etc) are the way to make the BW scene flourish but everyone needs to be on the same page. As for if you will donate or not, you can decide... and continue to make this thread an interesting thread as I often get bored and roam the forums for stuff like this. | ||
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Game
3191 Posts
On April 26 2011 12:04 DejaVu119 wrote: I read through many (but not all) of the comments, so if my questions/concerns are answered in them please redirect me to the proper posts. 1) Why are the number of people who are buying the replay pack anonymous?? If 90% of the proceeds are going to the next tournament, it should be VERY public how many replay packs are purchased to assure buyers that 90% is actually going to the next tournament(s). This is very much my number one concern. After certain periods of time, Game should be REQUIRED to PROVE the number of replay packs purchased (I'm sure you can come up with a way to keep the names of the people who purchased private). Since 10% of the proceeds are being pocketed, this is not a straight "donation" and should be public. 2) Is there a benefit to this purchased replay pack as opposed to other packs released by other tournaments? For example, is this replay pack very well organized by match-up, map, quality, etc.? If so, then adding a price to it makes some sense. 3) What's to stop one person from buying them and just releasing them to everyone else who wants it? I'm not particularly interested in the replays; it just seems like this is what is most likely going to happen. You don't actually "own" all the replays do you? Are you really going to go after someone who re-releases them? My main concern is outlined in point one. If that could be addressed, I would appreciate it. To Dejavu119: Are you Deja the guy Semih left? That's just curiosity. But, furthermore, here's me addressing your well thought out points. 1) The people who are buying the replay packs can easily post in the thread that they bought them. That is the reason behind me saying that they are anonymous. People take flack for any support of anything I do, which is a blatant lulz for me. Therefore, I hold the option for solid minded contributors to remain anonymous, otherwise they can easily post in this thread or any others within the limits of AoV iCCup Starleague (so they don't get MOD sniped). I don't feel the need to prove anything. Simply because I don't feel the need and have never seen anyone else do so. And I by no means an innovator, just a strong enhancer. But as I said, anyone can say that they bought. 2) By your definition of organized, no it is not. It is broken down by players, stages, and levels in the tournament. But no, I did not go through almost 9500 replays... in fact proposing that is insane and seems almost to the point of phishing for licensing of byproduct. Yes, that was sarcasm for anyone who missed it. By no means is this going to be a huge part of the sponsoring for my largest tournament, just a chance for the community to give back to something it seeks so desperately. 3) I have no intention of "going after" someone. If you actually read the OP I point out that exactly what you said is going to happen, and that I won't release them without 50 pre-orders. So... reading the OP would've answered that question. To Draw (KidCanada): I'm very secretive, always have been in all facets of my life. Specifically because I feel I am better than everyone else. Before the next person comes along and misconstrues that statement, listen. Until people start trying to help the community instead of whining and trolling 24/7, they are just murmuring voices, therefore I am better than them. It's actually very simple logic. So while people may not like me, it's hard to like people whom are honest about their ambitions and thoughts. Sure, I could kiss ass to a bunch of people who make absolutely no contribution to something they seem to have martyred for and hold so dear, or at least that's how they try to portray themselves. But in hindsight and retrospect, I don't have enough time or want in my life to do such a time consuming thing. The grass is greener on the other side anyhow. Summary: talk is cheap. | ||
HawaiianPig
Canada5155 Posts
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