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Disclosure:
+ Show Spoiler + This move is not a representation of the AoV iCCup Starleague staff, sponsors, or any participants, this is a sole effort to further the tournament.
One of the defining parts of AoV iCCup Starleague for me is the common yet famous question "Where can I download the replays?" For me, this far outweighed any drama, any concerns about players, and any surprise about the tournament solely based on the fact that I could not answer. That is because before ISL even started I predetermined that I would sell all of the ladder replays packs, the group stage games, the Round of 32 games, and the games from the showmatch.
First response after reading that: Why?
Well, without giving out too much information about who what when or where, 90% of the proceeds from the replay sales will be put into the prizepool of another, much larger tournament. The other 10% will go into paying my major help for ISL, including iCCup.nOoNe and JoeKim.
With that said, I think everyone will benefit from these sales. The people who want to watch the replays will receive over 9,000 + Show Spoiler + highly skilled games consisting of the top 70 ladder qualifiers, all races, all matchups, a variety of styles, and all ISL games. The other major beneficiary will be the players in the next tournament due to a larger prize pool. No matter how you look at it, the community wins.
So without further ado, here is how everyone can do their little part.
Ladder Replay Packs: $5, €3.5
Ladder Replays Packs, Group Stage Games, ISL Games, Showmatch Games: $10, €7
This announcement is occuring while ISL games are still pending, therefore it's for pre-sale. Because it is so easy to share replays with friends and the masses alike, I won't release the games until there are at least 50 orders. Upon that happening, all replays will be sent out one day after the tournament ends. Also, all purchases will remain anonymous. I understand the concern from any potential buyer. I would also question paying first and receiving later. But you do have my personal guarantee, and anyone who needs proof of my accountability is free to ask.
How to contact me:
Teamliquid: Game
iCCup.com: LRM)Game
Skype: vegason123
MSN: vegason1@hotmail.com
AIM: l0s3l2number1
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Canada5155 Posts
Uhm... really? I mean, there's already this for free.
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Australia7069 Posts
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Netherlands19135 Posts
Reopened after internal deliberation.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
umm isn't this supposed to be in the BW forum?
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Maybe even the BroodWar Tournament section, I indeed couldn't find it until I used to search bar. I would like to thank Teamliquid and their hard working staff for quickly making their decision after much debate. For anyone who doesn't understand the concept, it is primarily to enhance the tournament I will be putting on after ISL, and everyone's little contribution will help. So please do not see it as a spiteful tactic to profit off of replays.
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Can an admin please move this into the "BW Tourneys" section? This is not SC2 related.
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i wonder who will buy it.
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lets assume if all the reps were sold, that will cost $9000.
but if u use $9000 to raise a tournament,
u can get as many reps as u want.
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. . . I don't see this ending well.
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On April 08 2011 10:14 eton7410 wrote:
lets assume if all the reps were sold, that will cause $9000.
but if u use $9000 to raise a tournament,
u can get as many reps as u want.
Correct me if I'm wrong but, he said you get 9000 replays for a 1 time fee. Meaning 5 bucks for 9000 replays. Not a replay a dollar.
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On April 08 2011 09:20 eton7410 wrote:
i wonder who will buy it.
Generous people who want to see more tournaments. The lasts casts were okay, if they can continue on that progression we may have something. Possibly if the prices were lower people may feel that it's a donation rather than a purchase for the rep-packs, but if you are already selling them then I guess the price was reasonable.
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I thought long and hard about the prices, and they are very fair. It's a new concept since replays have always been free. But after SC2's release, good replays became very hard to come by. I think that is also advantageous, as I have watched many ladder replays packs and have been very impressed (specifically why I picked Ramms to win ISL).
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-.- this wont encourage new players who are interested in BW. Since u said yourself, good reps are hard to come by, and you're making it harder for some of us by selling 'em.
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Dude come on man, how do you expect the BW community to re flourish when you are trying to sell replays of ISL...I'm sorry but this just sounds absolutely ridiculous. It's easier to get high level pro / semi pro gamer replays than it is to get ISL replays of top foreigners for money, Just seems like that makes no sense.
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or he could just not release the replays at all..i think this is a good idea, as long as the money actually is used the way game says it will.
its basically a donation from anyone whos interested in the ISL players and their games towards another ISL. Anyone who would consider buying the replays would also benefit from the subsequent tournament.
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On April 08 2011 12:24 GGzerG wrote:
Dude come on man, how do you expect the BW community to re flourish when you are trying to sell replays of ISL...I'm sorry but this just sounds absolutely ridiculous. It's easier to get high level pro / semi pro gamer replays than it is to get ISL replays of top foreigners for money, Just seems like that makes no sense.
agree.
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Why are people complaining about this?
If you don't want to pay for them... then don't pay for them....
And let the people that want them buy them
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On April 08 2011 12:38 xxpack09 wrote:
Why are people complaining about this?
If you don't want to pay for them... then don't pay for them....
And let the people that want them buy them
+1
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Russian Federation42 Posts
well i see it like the main point of it is that
90% of the proceeds from the replay sales will be put into the prizepool of another, much larger tournament
and replays itself are kind of "bonus" for your support. (anyway as far as i remeber the majority of TSL replays wasn't released so this sale thing somehow could be better way)
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I think there's nothing wrong in this. You want to support ISL, you get a huge replay pack as a bonus. They can just not release the replays, at least there's an option of paying for them. If you don't want to support the ISL, or if you don't think it's worth your money, then don't buy it. That's how I see it.
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On April 08 2011 10:54 Game wrote:
I thought long and hard about the prices, and they are very fair. It's a new concept since replays have always been free. But after SC2's release, good replays became very hard to come by. I think that is also advantageous, as I have watched many ladder replays packs and have been very impressed (specifically why I picked Ramms to win ISL).
I heard it was more than it is, I didn't know it was only 5$ for the reps. Furthermore, agree with guy above me 
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On April 08 2011 12:38 xxpack09 wrote:
Why are people complaining about this?
If you don't want to pay for them... then don't pay for them....
And let the people that want them buy them
Correct, everyone has right to be as stupid as he want 
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I guess were gonna have some info about this larger tournament after ISL finishes?
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I have no problems with this. If you don't want them, don't pay. Especially since almost all of the money goes back to support yet another awesome tournament I personally think this is a good idea.
That and $5 is pretty much dirt cheap anyway, especially getting hundreds or thousands of reps for a great cause.
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On April 08 2011 12:24 GGzerG wrote:
Dude come on man, how do you expect the BW community to re flourish when you are trying to sell replays of ISL...I'm sorry but this just sounds absolutely ridiculous. It's easier to get high level pro / semi pro gamer replays than it is to get ISL replays of top foreigners for money, Just seems like that makes no sense.
Its not about the replays at all, its just about making a donation to the Brood War comunity and in exchange Game will hand over the replays. I mean everyone likes to see cash tourneys organized and invested in by big doners, but these are hard to find(I'd assume) so if everyone pitches in a lil bit, its no hastle for the individual really, its pocket change, yet you can help create, you can give back to the community. If you're ignorant enough to think that Game is doing this for personnal benefit after having pulled off such a successful well organized tour then just don't donate the funds and certainly don't post. I mean yes, a donation system would maybe look a little better on the cover, but who are we kidding, ppl will look at it and say "pay" or "free". So yeah. Its better to have a little less of a cover image if the intentions are right imo.
On April 08 2011 16:52 ICCUP.Messer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 12:38 xxpack09 wrote:
Why are people complaining about this?
If you don't want to pay for them... then don't pay for them....
And let the people that want them buy them Correct, everyone has right to be as stupid as he want
Umm Why would you even bother posting a comment like this?
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Iccup is not supporting this idea, and none of our staff are involved with this organization at this moment.
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On April 08 2011 18:12 LG)cheloman wrote:
Iccup is not supporting this idea, and none of our staff are involved with this organization at this moment.
If you read the OP you would see that.
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Croatia9505 Posts
On April 08 2011 17:26 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 12:24 GGzerG wrote:
Dude come on man, how do you expect the BW community to re flourish when you are trying to sell replays of ISL...I'm sorry but this just sounds absolutely ridiculous. It's easier to get high level pro / semi pro gamer replays than it is to get ISL replays of top foreigners for money, Just seems like that makes no sense. Its not about the replays at all, its just about making a donation to the Brood War comunity and in exchange Game will hand over the replays. I mean everyone likes to see cash tourneys organized and invested in by big doners, but these are hard to find(I'd assume) so if everyone pitches in a lil bit, its no hastle for the individual really, its pocket change, yet you can help create, you can give back to the community. If you're ignorant enough to think that Game is doing this for personnal benefit after having pulled off such a successful well organized tour then just don't donate the funds and certainly don't post. I mean yes, a donation system would maybe look a little better on the cover, but who are we kidding, ppl will look at it and say "pay" or "free". So yeah. Its better to have a little less of a cover image if the intentions are right imo.
I agree with you, but I don't agree with the way Game brought up this in the first place. People see words "replay sales" and they don't even read the rest of the thread to form their opinion (I know I didn't).
Instead of putting so much emphasis on replay sales, he should've made this thread more about donations for next bigger and better BW tourneys and as a thank you for your donation, you get a replay pack as a bonus.
Because in the end, this is exactly that, a donation for the next BW tourney, but this ambiguity is confusing people. I'd much rather donate money for a BW tourney, instead of buying replays to help.
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Im talking as iccup official voice.
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cheloman, what in God's name does that have to do with reading the OP?
P.S 2pac I agree, but it's specific to a target audience who would be interested. It surely turns off those with the same view as you, but there will be a time for all things monetary to be presented for this next tournament and this just happens to be the right thing for this part.
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So say I buy these reps, what guarantee do I have that the players won't just release them themselves? The 10% that isn't going to the next tournament who is it paying and why? How can this even be legal?
Why not just have a donation page? I personally would be more likely to donate that way. This whole thing seems distasteful or something even though its probably not meant to be.
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On April 08 2011 18:42 Kittyness wrote:
So say I buy these reps, what guarantee do I have that the players won't just release them themselves? The 10% that isn't going to the next tournament who is it paying and why? How can this even be legal?
Why not just have a donation page? I personally would be more likely to donate that way. This whole thing seems distasteful or something even though its probably not meant to be.
So say I buy these reps, what guarantee do I have that the players won't just release them themselves?
A: I'd imagine the majority of them all knowing this concept exists wouldn't be spiteful enough to ruin it. Just as well, it takes a lot of effort.
The 10% that isn't going to the next tournament who is it paying and why?
A: The help of the tournament (minus me), specifically nOoNe and JoeKim who have put countless hours into the tournament.
P.S. all donations are welcome.
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Does sayle gets the 10 % too ? I guess he should after all isl without him commentating makes it not an isl .
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Croatia9505 Posts
On April 08 2011 19:18 Sawamura wrote:
Does sayle gets the 10 % too ? I guess he should after all isl without him commentating makes it not an isl .
Yeah, ISL without Sayle is just.... IL.
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On April 08 2011 19:23 2Pacalypse- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 19:18 Sawamura wrote:
Does sayle gets the 10 % too ? I guess he should after all isl without him commentating makes it not an isl . Yeah, ISL without Sayle is just.... IL.
hahaha
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
On April 08 2011 19:18 Sawamura wrote:
Does sayle gets the 10 % too ? I guess he should after all isl without him commentating makes it not an isl .
In the original version of the OP, Game included me along with nOoNe and JoeKim as recipients of the 10%. I asked to be taken out because I'm also somewhat uncomfortable with the idea of selling replays. I also don't really need the money, so I'd rather it go towards another awesome tournament anyway
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This is a bad idea . If you want money for future tours just ask for donations instead of "selling replays" when they've always been free. Even both TSL released all the reppacks for free after they finished.
I wouldnt pay a dime to watch some scrubs playing on iccup when i get free vods of pros playing every week.
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On April 08 2011 19:53 SkelA wrote:
This is a bad idea . If you want money for future tours just ask for donations instead of "selling replays" when they've always been free. Even both TSL released all the reppacks for free after they finished.
I wouldnt pay a dime to watch some scrubs playing on iccup when i get free vods of pros playing every week.
I agree with this man.
Anyhow anyone could post his reppack in public (like me - tho nobody cares about my games)
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On April 08 2011 19:53 SkelA wrote:
This is a bad idea . If you want money for future tours just ask for donations instead of "selling replays" when they've always been free. Even both TSL released all the reppacks for free after they finished.
I wouldnt pay a dime to watch some scrubs playing on iccup when i get free vods of pros playing every week.
This
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This has embezzlement written all over it. I can see it now: "Oh, I work so hard on iCCup, there's no reason I shouldn't take a little of this money to buy a new microphone. Hell, that helps because it lets me chat on vent with other admins! Also I'm going to buy a new graphics card. There'll still be some money left over for the tournament. No harm done!"
Makes a guy yearn for the days of PGTour, when people played this game because they liked it, people hosted tourneys for this game because they thought it was exciting... And that was enough.
I can think to myself 'I might watch the ro8 or 4 of a foreign tournament just for the hell it.' That might be worth my time, it might be enjoyable. But now you want money for a zip file of totally disorganized replays. This is not going to help BW You need to make foreign tournaments more accessible, not less accessible.
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On April 08 2011 23:30 Chef wrote:This has embezzlement written all over it. I can see it now: "Oh, I work so hard on iCCup, there's no reason I shouldn't take a little of this money to buy a new microphone. Hell, that helps because it lets me chat on vent with other admins! Also I'm going to buy a new graphics card. There'll still be some money left over for the tournament. No harm done!" Makes a guy yearn for the days of PGTour, when people played this game because they liked it, people hosted tourneys for this game because they thought it was exciting... And that was enough. I can think to myself 'I might watch the ro8 or 4 of a foreign tournament just for the hell it.' That might be worth my time, it might be enjoyable. But now you want money for a zip file of totally disorganized replays. This is not going to help BW You need to make foreign tournaments more accessible, not less accessible.
I want to point out again that none of the organisators are ICCup admins anymore, and as Cheloman already said, we're not pleased about Game's step in this either.
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my problem with it is joekim will use the money to gamble on ISL some more
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Here is a VOD of the man who wants money from you. He is co-casting with Sayle and does nothing but complain and say how bad the players are:
+ Show Spoiler +
A real pillar of the community
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i'd donate $10 for this... i need paypal i guess ?
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On April 09 2011 00:04 Chef wrote:Here is a VOD of the man who wants money from you. He is co-casting with Sayle and does nothing but complain and say how bad the players are: + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPn1feowG-g A real pillar of the community
very 'professional' casting. Lol i wonder if someone releases the rep packs to the public, what will happen yo?
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On April 09 2011 00:10 qdenser wrote:
i'd donate $10 for this... i need paypal i guess ?
Yes.
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On April 09 2011 00:58 Game wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 00:10 qdenser wrote:
i'd donate $10 for this... i need paypal i guess ? Yes. To any nay-sayers... all of that negativity has already been addressed and I'm no longer going to respond to every single post that is counter productive for not only the tournament, but the BW community.
Now you're just pulling a BigT here.
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Lol wow, this is a terrible idea. With the huge decline in activity on BW this is not the way to draw more players into the game... Horrible idea.
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This has embezzlement written all over it. I can see it now: "Oh, I work so hard on iCCup, there's no reason I shouldn't take a little of this money to buy a new microphone. Hell, that helps because it lets me chat on vent with other admins! Also I'm going to buy a new graphics card. There'll still be some money left over for the tournament. No harm done!"
Assuming somehow 50 buyers pay $5 for a total of $250, then 10% ($25) split three ways is $8.33. LRM)Game would not be able to pay for his headphones. I don't see how $225 to the pot and $8 to three people is warranting a public outcry.
I can think to myself 'I might watch the ro8 or 4 of a foreign tournament just for the hell it.' That might be worth my time, it might be enjoyable. But now you want money for a zip file of totally disorganized replays. This is not going to help BW You need to make foreign tournaments more accessible, not less accessible
Foreign tournaments would be more accessible (and more successful) if there were larger cash prizes (and hence larger incentives to compete and do well.)
Here is a VOD of the man who wants money from you. He is co-casting with Sayle and does nothing but complain and say how bad the players are. A real pillar of the community.
Chef is one well practiced in forum posting (and trolling). Chef I have played SC for ten years and have often times read your posts on the sites I read teamliquid.net and staredit.net. Of the five years I AFK'd in op sen when you were a user of staredit.net, and the years I played on ICCUP, I have not seen you once online on battle.net. 6,000 forum posts serves to prove my point. Also, in fear of omnipotent ban hammer, I will not post again in this thread.
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Just need a Robin hood to buy the pack once and then release it to the masses for free.
Seriously it is cool you are trying to support your tournament, but there is a better way and that is to find a sponsor for it, can't find one, then keep on doing the tournament to prove it is worthwhile to invest into it as a sponsor..
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How do I get 10$ towards you without paypal or credit card? I have neither.
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On April 09 2011 01:30 Kralic wrote:
Just need a Robin hood to buy the pack once and then release it to the masses for free.
Seriously it is cool you are trying to support your tournament, but there is a better way and that is to find a sponsor for it, can't find one, then keep on doing the tournament to prove it is worthwhile to invest into it as a sponsor..
It is hard to find sponsors for bw when all the ESPORT money go to Sc2 ( outside of Korea of course ).
Honestly as much as i appreciate the work of Game, NoOne and Joekim, i think that all the money should go to the prize pool of the next event.
I mean i think it will be really hard to get more than 500$ anyway.
So 500 x (1/10) = 50
25$ for Joekim and 25$ for NoOne ? This is kinda ridiculous =/
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On April 08 2011 19:46 Sayle wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 19:18 Sawamura wrote:
Does sayle gets the 10 % too ? I guess he should after all isl without him commentating makes it not an isl . In the original version of the OP, Game included me along with nOoNe and JoeKim as recipients of the 10%. I asked to be taken out because I'm also somewhat uncomfortable with the idea of selling replays. I also don't really need the money, so I'd rather it go towards another awesome tournament anyway
Wow, Sayle is the man.
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On April 08 2011 23:30 Chef wrote:
This has embezzlement written all over it.
Just publicize the buyers' names and it's ok. I don't know why the buyers themselves would want it otherwise, after all they support the BW community with this move and should be proud of it.
As for the initiative I think it's ok, but I think there should be more emphasis on "donation" less on "sales". As seen above, it confuses people. Although I think most of them are just jumping the bandwagon.
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On April 09 2011 03:03 RHCPgergo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 23:30 Chef wrote:
This has embezzlement written all over it. Just publicize the buyers' names and it's ok. I don't know why the buyers themselves would want it otherwise, after all they support the BW community with this move and should be proud of it. As for the initiative I think it's ok, but I think there should be more emphasis on "donation" less on "sales". As seen above, it confuses people. Although I think most of them are just jumping the bandwagon.
i'd imaginge i buy the reppack from game and he puts my name in the OP and i get instantly over 9000 pms.
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People need to read and think before they post. All I'm going to say, I can tell over half the haters have not read anything but the title.
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On April 09 2011 03:03 RHCPgergo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 23:30 Chef wrote:
This has embezzlement written all over it. Just publicize the buyers' names and it's ok. I don't know why the buyers themselves would want it otherwise, after all they support the BW community with this move and should be proud of it.
I was pointing out how it's suspicious that he goes out of his way to say buyers are anonymous -.-
Chef is one well practiced in forum posting (and trolling). Chef I have played SC for ten years and have often times read your posts on the sites I read teamliquid.net and staredit.net. Of the five years I AFK'd in op sen when you were a user of staredit.net, and the years I played on ICCUP, I have not seen you once online on battle.net. 6,000 forum posts serves to prove my point. Also, in fear of omnipotent ban hammer, I will not post again in this thread.
Are you a stalker? You've never seen me on B.net maybe because I don't know who the hell you are? Are you that guy that took a bunch of Pro Maps and claimed he made them? That was hilarious.
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I've seen chef on bnet o.O
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Chef is an expert 3x3 BGH player ~
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On April 09 2011 05:46 Boblion wrote:
Chef is an expert 3x3 BGH player ~
I wonder if he'll mass flame in the coming prized 3v3 BGH tournament I'm organizing and hosting.
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On April 09 2011 06:07 Game wrote:I wonder if he'll mass flame in the coming prized 3v3 BGH tournament I'm organizing and hosting.
Isn't KoS-Templar organizing and hosting that?
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if one of the main goals of this tournament was to help keep foreign bw alive charging for the replays is a pretty terribad move from a PR standpoint... oh wellz I definitely wont be paying for this.
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On April 09 2011 06:39 oovv wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 06:07 Game wrote:On April 09 2011 05:46 Boblion wrote:
Chef is an expert 3x3 BGH player ~ I wonder if he'll mass flame in the coming prized 3v3 BGH tournament I'm organizing and hosting. Isn't KoS-Templar organizing and hosting that?
Game is organizing and hosting this tournament. I'm just helping/sponsoring this upcoming tourny.
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On April 09 2011 08:10 LuckyFool wrote:
if one of the main goals of this tournament was to help keep foreign bw alive charging for the replays is a pretty terribad move from a PR standpoint... oh wellz I definitely wont be paying for this.
That's fine, as many people have said: if you wanted to contribute, it's appreciated, if not... keep it to yourself, I think there's been enough people making your point already.
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Aren't you basically selling material that doesn't belong to you? I don't get how this can niether morally nor legally be supported.
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Legally, any tournament owns the material that is played for that tournament.
Best example: sports on TV
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My first guess would be that Blizzard owns the reps... I would love for the sports analogy to be true, but it just isn't. A computer game isn't the same as a tennis racket.
Also, as I see it, it's mainly the players that are producing this material, not you. You're producing the VODs with commentary etc - that is your product. You don't exactly provide an exclusive playing field - kespa did that in a sense. That doesn't necesarily make it illigal, it just makes you look like a douche.
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On April 10 2011 07:20 Game wrote:
Thanks for your opinion.
Game agrees with me.
Edit, I was actually expecting a PR response. It's stupid of you to believe you can just get away with something like "Don't like it, don't buy it", which wouldn't be in relation to my point anyway. Thus I simply expect you to agree with my point, but do it anyway. Basically a quesion about morals.
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On April 10 2011 07:20 Game wrote:
Thanks for your opinion.
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On April 10 2011 07:28 XsebT wrote:Game agrees with me. Edit, I was actually expecting a PR response. It's stupid of you to believe you can just get away with something like "Don't like it, don't buy it", which wouldn't be in relation to my point anyway. Thus I simply expect you to agree with my point, but do it anyway. Basically a quesion about morals.
as someone who works a crap ton to archive replays (having archived over 10GB of replays so far) i was hopign for isl replays to be a welcome addition and a huge archive of later bw history. I was hoping that the BW community would thrive again and the rare and old replays i have collected for months would be wanted.
Would i sell them, no. it would be a gift to the community who has kept this game alive for so long and for being passionate about bw.
I've deleted the replays due to this thread. not worth it anymore since people would expect me to profit from it.
EDIT: It seems as well that the additional money (the 90%) will not go to bw tournaments, but will go to a BGH tournament. so a mod of bw instead of bw, nice work :/
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On April 10 2011 07:53 masterbreti wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 07:28 XsebT wrote:On April 10 2011 07:20 Game wrote:
Thanks for your opinion. Game agrees with me. Edit, I was actually expecting a PR response. It's stupid of you to believe you can just get away with something like "Don't like it, don't buy it", which wouldn't be in relation to my point anyway. Thus I simply expect you to agree with my point, but do it anyway. Basically a quesion about morals. as someone who works a crap ton to archive replays (having archived over 10GB of replays so far) i was hopign for isl replays to be a welcome addition and a huge archive of later bw history. I was hoping that the BW community would thrive again and the rare and old replays i have collected for months would be wanted. Would i sell them, no. it would be a gift to the community who has kept this game alive for so long and for being passionate about bw. I've deleted the replays due to this thread. not worth it anymore since people would expect me to profit from it.
Are you saying you just deleted 10 GB worth of replays? o.O
Why? And how would people expect you to profit from it.
On April 09 2011 08:10 LuckyFool wrote:
if one of the main goals of this tournament was to help keep foreign bw alive charging for the replays is a pretty terribad move from a PR standpoint... oh wellz I definitely wont be paying for this.
I really don't understand the hate here. Maybe its not totally flawless from a PR standpoint but what on earth is wrong with selling the replays from one tournament to raise money to help organize an even better BW event? 90% of this money is going right back into the community, and I have no problems at all with this.
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masterbreti... completely wrong. I'm so sick of people who have no idea what they're talking about saying matter of factual statements. The BGH tournament is privately sponsored by KoS-Templar.
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On April 10 2011 08:07 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 07:53 masterbreti wrote:On April 10 2011 07:28 XsebT wrote:On April 10 2011 07:20 Game wrote:
Thanks for your opinion. Game agrees with me. Edit, I was actually expecting a PR response. It's stupid of you to believe you can just get away with something like "Don't like it, don't buy it", which wouldn't be in relation to my point anyway. Thus I simply expect you to agree with my point, but do it anyway. Basically a quesion about morals. as someone who works a crap ton to archive replays (having archived over 10GB of replays so far) i was hopign for isl replays to be a welcome addition and a huge archive of later bw history. I was hoping that the BW community would thrive again and the rare and old replays i have collected for months would be wanted. Would i sell them, no. it would be a gift to the community who has kept this game alive for so long and for being passionate about bw. I've deleted the replays due to this thread. not worth it anymore since people would expect me to profit from it. Are you saying you just deleted 10 GB worth of replays? o.O Why? And how would people expect you to profit from it.
yes, about 10GB, but more if i had decompressed it all. replays that were really hard to find and that most likely won't be seen by the light of day again, hidden away in the crevasses of the interwebz and hardrives of former bw players.
tbh this has put a horrible taste in my mouth about the whole thing. doing something for the community is now a money making venture by Game. regardless of the hours put in, you should not profit from it.
I am going to reference TSL and TSL 2. do you think chill, artosis, day9, or any of the casters or organizers who worked night and day benifited from doing the work, no. did they ask for money in return for casting. no.
they did it for the community, the replays were released and shared with all, and the vods are still on youtube to this day. it was a community project and should be from the passion for bw. nobody should profit from that except the people who win the tournament.
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I am not making any profit off of these replays #1 which is clearly stated in the OP. You're posting a lot of ignorant things. More importantly, teamliquid has much more capability to gain sponsorship for tournaments, and those were done pre-SC2, which is just common sense. All this talk about passion though, want a hug?
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On April 10 2011 08:18 masterbreti wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 08:07 L_Master wrote:On April 10 2011 07:53 masterbreti wrote:On April 10 2011 07:28 XsebT wrote:On April 10 2011 07:20 Game wrote:
Thanks for your opinion. Game agrees with me. Edit, I was actually expecting a PR response. It's stupid of you to believe you can just get away with something like "Don't like it, don't buy it", which wouldn't be in relation to my point anyway. Thus I simply expect you to agree with my point, but do it anyway. Basically a quesion about morals. as someone who works a crap ton to archive replays (having archived over 10GB of replays so far) i was hopign for isl replays to be a welcome addition and a huge archive of later bw history. I was hoping that the BW community would thrive again and the rare and old replays i have collected for months would be wanted. Would i sell them, no. it would be a gift to the community who has kept this game alive for so long and for being passionate about bw. I've deleted the replays due to this thread. not worth it anymore since people would expect me to profit from it. Are you saying you just deleted 10 GB worth of replays? o.O Why? And how would people expect you to profit from it. yes, about 10GB, but more if i had decompressed it all. replays that were really hard to find and that most likely won't be seen by the light of day again, hidden away in the crevasses of the interwebz and hardrives of former bw players. tbh this has put a horrible taste in my mouth about the whole thing. doing something for the community is now a money making venture by Game. regardless of the hours put in, you should not profit from it. I am going to reference TSL and TSL 2. do you think chill, artosis, day9, or any of the casters or organizers who worked night and day benifited from doing the work, no. did they ask for money in return for casting. no. they did it for the community, the replays were released and shared with all, and the vods are still on youtube to this day. it was a community project and should be from the passion for bw. nobody should profit from that except the people who win the tournament.
Still not sure what that has to do with you deleting all those replays. Sounds like you think game is pulling a douche move and then your deleting all those reps out of spite/anger? I just don't see how game selling replays has anything to do with you and your replays.
As far as making money, 90% goes to another BW tournament. This is a good thing. If you disagree about the 10% going back to Game or noOne then I think we just have differing opinions. Yes, I know it sets it a precedent but 5-10% for organizing, finding sponsors, etc strikes me as reasonable. Chill/Day/Artosis et al. may not have asked for any money in return, but as I see it they certainly would have been more than deserving.
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On April 10 2011 08:37 Game wrote:
I am not making any profit off of these replays #1 which is clearly stated in the OP. You're posting a lot of ignorant things. More importantly, teamliquid has much more capability to gain sponsorship for tournaments, and those were done pre-SC2, which is just common sense. All this talk about passion though, want a hug?
but selling something that should be free is not proper. if this tournament was truly for the community, then the community should donate themselves. and not be forced into it to get the replays. why not sell isl t-shirts instead. nobody would most likely buy them but at least its better than doing something in such poor taste as selling replays.
tl didn't have sponsors in the beginning, they worked hard as hell to get them. maybe you should go back and listen to the story of the first tsl and maybe learn a little bit more about ethics in the bw community, as you have none.
you are trying to make money off of this, otherwise you would not say %10 goes to organizers. you have had obivious motivations other than helping the bw community. i had my suspicisions about you to beginning with, now they have become clear.
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You're rambling bullshit at this point, expect no further response.
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I think a good compromise would to make 100% of the earnings go the next tournament instead of 90%. I mean 10% between 2 or 3 people really isn't that much anyways. In my honest opinion, I don't really care about the whole thing, it seems kinda fair even though selling replays does put a bad taste in my mouth. However, I think it would shut people up if no one was gaining any profit from the replays.
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I don't see what the big deal about this is....I pretty much see it as "Donate $5 or $10 for the next tourny and receive replays to show our gratitude." But, w/e get all up and arms about $5 or $10 all you want.
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As far as making money, 90% goes to another BW tournament. This is a good thing. If you disagree about the 10% going back to Game or noOne then I think we just have differing opinions. Yes, I know it sets it a precedent but 5-10% for organizing, finding sponsors, etc strikes me as reasonable. Chill/Day/Artosis et al. may not have asked for any money in return, but as I see it they certainly would have been more than deserving.
The issue is that this community has a 10 year tradition of community projects being done for free. BWChart, RWAs, PenguinPlug, ChaosLauncher, WGTour, PGTour, iCCup, LMRB, and countless others. Now a few guys organize what must be the millionth tournament BW has had, and they want financial compensation for their 'hard work.' Those countless projects which not only needed hard work, but skilled persons to accomplish... That is, often someone who actually has training in programming. Yeah, it's just a little insulting to the rich tradition of BW Community History.
It should have been 100%. It would have been dumb anyway, but at least it wouldn't have been insulting. Think about how much this game has given you, and how much this community has given you. There's is nothing you could possibly do that would get your out of your debt. That's why BW community projects are free
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On April 11 2011 02:48 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +As far as making money, 90% goes to another BW tournament. This is a good thing. If you disagree about the 10% going back to Game or noOne then I think we just have differing opinions. Yes, I know it sets it a precedent but 5-10% for organizing, finding sponsors, etc strikes me as reasonable. Chill/Day/Artosis et al. may not have asked for any money in return, but as I see it they certainly would have been more than deserving. The issue is that this community has a 10 year tradition of community projects being done for free. BWChart, RWAs, PenguinPlug, ChaosLauncher, WGTour, PGTour, iCCup, LMRB, and countless others. Now a few guys organize what must be the millionth tournament BW has had, and they want financial compensation for their 'hard work.' Those countless projects which not only needed hard work, but skilled persons to accomplish... That is, often someone who actually has training in programming. Yeah, it's just a little insulting to the rich tradition of BW Community History.
I couldn't agree more.
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I couldn't agree more, either. The part you negated mention of was the release of Starcraft II. I don't need to write an essay to explain how insanely hard it is to compile funds. Not that I'm no good at it, but this is just one of the many routes that needs to be taken in a post-war community to do something bigger and larger than someones McDonald's meal ($5). Despite that, people are buying and all of this masterbreti self-important drama is just helping my cause. There couldn't be a less logical and overzealous BW contributor, as after seeing his argument, people realize just how simple the concept is.
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On April 10 2011 09:21 Shotcoder wrote:
I don't see what the big deal about this is....I pretty much see it as "Donate $5 or $10 for the next tourny and receive replays to show our gratitude." But, w/e get all up and arms about $5 or $10 all you want.
Exactly.
Game has been doing a lot for foreigner broodwar where all the old heroes have jumped ship to sc2. I don't know where the BW love went with these guys. Many are just going where the flock is, to profit from the flock. If game ever wanted to profit, he'd gone sc2 too, for sure. If someone puts time and effort in BW right now, I'm not gonna question his intentions.
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Yes, the situation is somewhat dire, but couldn't you just ask for donations instead? ...and make it 100% focused on upcoming tournament funds? (You can't use sc2 as an argument for staff payment). I thoroughly believe you would actually get more money that way. Of course, I don't know that for sure, but personally, I would never ever pay for a replay no matter the cause or players. I would, however, certainly donate some money if it would help the foreign scene bloom again in this dry season.
The reason for this goes back to one of my earlier points, that I believe replays to be the players' creation and thus they "own" them and can decide what to do with them. Did you ask the players if they had a problem with you selling their replays?
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On April 11 2011 05:57 XsebT wrote:
Yes, the situation is somewhat dire, but couldn't you just ask for donations instead? ...and make it 100% focused on upcoming tournament funds? (You can't use sc2 as an argument for staff payment). I thoroughly believe you would actually get more money that way. Of course, I don't know that for sure, but personally, I would never ever pay for a replay no matter the cause or players. I would, however, certainly donate some money if it would help the foreign scene bloom again in this dry season.
The reason for this goes back to one of my earlier points, that I believe replays to be the players' creation and thus they "own" them and can decide what to do with them. Did you ask the players if they had a problem with you selling their replays?
This. if all my $10 were going to the next tournament, i would for sure pay the $10. i understand things are in more need than before. but not bad enough to warrant payments for staff.
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I think $5 for 9000 replays is completely fair. The replays are more for enjoyment, as you would be much better off watching free professional VODs on youtube if you were looking to grow in terms of skill. The replays can also help people strategically, if used wisely. If the average game was only 10 minutes, (9000 replays)(10 minutes) = 90,000 minutes = 1500 hours of entertainment for only $5.
That is $.003 per hour.
Now I have doubt the average game will even be 10 minutes since games end after just a few seconds for lag/etc...but I think I made my point. Its not like Joekim/NoOne is going to make a fortune off 10% of $5. They only get $0.25 each per person who buys the replays.
Anyways, someone will probably put the replays on a download site regardless, so it would probably be better to just release the replays for free and ask for donations? Its not like you hold copyright claims over the replays and can prevent someone from doing this.
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On April 11 2011 06:07 tryummm wrote:
I think $5 for 9000 replays is completely fair. The replays are more for enjoyment, as you would be much better off watching free professional VODs on youtube if you were looking to grow in terms of skill. The replays can also help people strategically, if used wisely. If the average game was only 10 minutes, (9000 replays)(10 minutes) = 90,000 minutes = 1500 hours of entertainment for only $5.
That is $.003 per hour.
Now I have doubt the average game will even be 10 minutes since games end after just a few seconds for lag/etc...but I think I made my point. Its not like Joekim/NoOne is going to make a fortune off 10% of $5. They only get $0.25 each per person who buys the replays.
Anyways, someone will probably put the replays on a download site regardless, so it would probably be better to just release the replays for free and ask for donations? Its not like you hold copyright claims over the replays and can prevent someone from doing this.
its more than fair in terms of money for the replays.
@Game, look, if you're willing not to take the 10% off my donation, i'd be more than willing to donate my money to the tournament for the replays. because i want to support bw tournaments.
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On April 08 2011 18:54 Game wrote:
P.S. all donations are welcome.
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This is to good of an opportunity to miss out on imo. +1
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I read through many (but not all) of the comments, so if my questions/concerns are answered in them please redirect me to the proper posts.
1) Why are the number of people who are buying the replay pack anonymous?? If 90% of the proceeds are going to the next tournament, it should be VERY public how many replay packs are purchased to assure buyers that 90% is actually going to the next tournament(s). This is very much my number one concern. After certain periods of time, Game should be REQUIRED to PROVE the number of replay packs purchased (I'm sure you can come up with a way to keep the names of the people who purchased private). Since 10% of the proceeds are being pocketed, this is not a straight "donation" and should be public.
2) Is there a benefit to this purchased replay pack as opposed to other packs released by other tournaments? For example, is this replay pack very well organized by match-up, map, quality, etc.? If so, then adding a price to it makes some sense.
3) What's to stop one person from buying them and just releasing them to everyone else who wants it? I'm not particularly interested in the replays; it just seems like this is what is most likely going to happen. You don't actually "own" all the replays do you? Are you really going to go after someone who re-releases them?
My main concern is outlined in point one. If that could be addressed, I would appreciate it.
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just be happy he is releasing the replays for 5 dollars
try to get any tsl replay (not ladder) if you can -_-
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^^should have let the thread die and never be bumped again lol.. was wondering too who bought the reps...
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On April 26 2011 12:14 MiraKul wrote:
^^should have let the thread die and never be bumped again lol.. was wondering too who bought the reps...
I disagree. If anyone bought the reps, they have a right to know they weren't lied to or scammed. That's all I'm really saying. Document what happens with the money. It's really not that hard.
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On April 26 2011 12:11 soujiro_ wrote:
just be happy he is releasing the replays for 5 dollars
try to get any tsl replay (not ladder) if you can -_-
Actually you can...
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Wow, this thread is a great read.
-> Chef, he may be sarcastic but I don't agree that you guys call him a troll he's quite a genius and I believe an english major, so you can't win a war of words with him.
The only problems are just the way that game operates. He might have good intentions but the actions taken are rather troublesome, i.e making everything suspicious and bm when already people don't like or trust his character.
Donations and public effort (activity regularly, community etc) are the way to make the BW scene flourish but everyone needs to be on the same page.
As for if you will donate or not, you can decide... and continue to make this thread an interesting thread as I often get bored and roam the forums for stuff like this.
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On April 26 2011 12:04 DejaVu119 wrote:
I read through many (but not all) of the comments, so if my questions/concerns are answered in them please redirect me to the proper posts.
1) Why are the number of people who are buying the replay pack anonymous?? If 90% of the proceeds are going to the next tournament, it should be VERY public how many replay packs are purchased to assure buyers that 90% is actually going to the next tournament(s). This is very much my number one concern. After certain periods of time, Game should be REQUIRED to PROVE the number of replay packs purchased (I'm sure you can come up with a way to keep the names of the people who purchased private). Since 10% of the proceeds are being pocketed, this is not a straight "donation" and should be public.
2) Is there a benefit to this purchased replay pack as opposed to other packs released by other tournaments? For example, is this replay pack very well organized by match-up, map, quality, etc.? If so, then adding a price to it makes some sense.
3) What's to stop one person from buying them and just releasing them to everyone else who wants it? I'm not particularly interested in the replays; it just seems like this is what is most likely going to happen. You don't actually "own" all the replays do you? Are you really going to go after someone who re-releases them?
My main concern is outlined in point one. If that could be addressed, I would appreciate it.
To Dejavu119: Are you Deja the guy Semih left? That's just curiosity. But, furthermore, here's me addressing your well thought out points.
1) The people who are buying the replay packs can easily post in the thread that they bought them. That is the reason behind me saying that they are anonymous. People take flack for any support of anything I do, which is a blatant lulz for me. Therefore, I hold the option for solid minded contributors to remain anonymous, otherwise they can easily post in this thread or any others within the limits of AoV iCCup Starleague (so they don't get MOD sniped). I don't feel the need to prove anything. Simply because I don't feel the need and have never seen anyone else do so. And I by no means an innovator, just a strong enhancer. But as I said, anyone can say that they bought.
2) By your definition of organized, no it is not. It is broken down by players, stages, and levels in the tournament. But no, I did not go through almost 9500 replays... in fact proposing that is insane and seems almost to the point of phishing for licensing of byproduct. Yes, that was sarcasm for anyone who missed it. By no means is this going to be a huge part of the sponsoring for my largest tournament, just a chance for the community to give back to something it seeks so desperately.
3) I have no intention of "going after" someone. If you actually read the OP I point out that exactly what you said is going to happen, and that I won't release them without 50 pre-orders. So... reading the OP would've answered that question.
To Draw (KidCanada): I'm very secretive, always have been in all facets of my life. Specifically because I feel I am better than everyone else. Before the next person comes along and misconstrues that statement, listen. Until people start trying to help the community instead of whining and trolling 24/7, they are just murmuring voices, therefore I am better than them. It's actually very simple logic. So while people may not like me, it's hard to like people whom are honest about their ambitions and thoughts. Sure, I could kiss ass to a bunch of people who make absolutely no contribution to something they seem to have martyred for and hold so dear, or at least that's how they try to portray themselves. But in hindsight and retrospect, I don't have enough time or want in my life to do such a time consuming thing. The grass is greener on the other side anyhow. Summary: talk is cheap.
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Canada5155 Posts
Just throwing this out there: This all reminds me of Combat-Ex asking for donations.
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Thanks for comparing ISL to Combat-Ex.
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Canada5155 Posts
On April 26 2011 16:54 Game wrote:
Thanks for comparing ISL to Combat-Ex.
But, but but,
On March 31 2011 05:24 Game wrote:
Disclosure:
This move is not a representation of the AoV iCCup Starleague staff, sponsors, or any participants, this is a sole effort to further the tournament.
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On April 26 2011 16:51 HawaiianPig wrote:
Just throwing this out there: This all reminds me of Combat-Ex asking for donations.
If you dont offer criticism just dont throw in things like that. It's like you want to be vindicated in a debate without taking the time to actually make a point. "I think Game sucks. Discuss".
Sure the act is questionable - and it has been questioned by countless people and mods before surely, in this very thread too -, but Game is not hiding from debate, standing behind his reasoning, and is at least promising to turn the proceedings towards an other community tournament like the ISL, that he has already delivered, not a penny for himself.
(Or maybe you dont realize how much of an offense it is comparing someone to Combat-Ex in the scene?)
As it is, your post reminds me of something rather terrible.
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On April 26 2011 15:57 Game wrote:
[
To Dejavu119: Are you Deja the guy Semih left? That's just curiosity. But, furthermore, here's me addressing your well thought out points.
1) The people who are buying the replay packs can easily post in the thread that they bought them. That is the reason behind me saying that they are anonymous. People take flack for any support of anything I do, which is a blatant lulz for me. Therefore, I hold the option for solid minded contributors to remain anonymous, otherwise they can easily post in this thread or any others within the limits of AoV iCCup Starleague (so they don't get MOD sniped). I don't feel the need to prove anything. Simply because I don't feel the need and have never seen anyone else do so. And I by no means an innovator, just a strong enhancer. But as I said, anyone can say that they bought.
2) By your definition of organized, no it is not. It is broken down by players, stages, and levels in the tournament. But no, I did not go through almost 9500 replays... in fact proposing that is insane and seems almost to the point of phishing for licensing of byproduct. Yes, that was sarcasm for anyone who missed it. By no means is this going to be a huge part of the sponsoring for my largest tournament, just a chance for the community to give back to something it seeks so desperately.
3) I have no intention of "going after" someone. If you actually read the OP I point out that exactly what you said is going to happen, and that I won't release them without 50 pre-orders. So... reading the OP would've answered that question.
To Game: Yes I am the same to assuage your curiosity.
All I'm pointing out is the very large POTENTIAL for misconduct. Which is why, for the sake of your integrity, I am suggesting some openness WITH anonymity. Perhaps, some pictures of the paypal account with all information blotted out accept for the number of 5 and 10 dollar transfers so that people know how much the next prize pool will be supported. I've been advised not to use paypal (no I'm not trying to attack paypal or anything; do as you wish) so I'm not entirely sure how much you can organize the information. I would expect there to be a way and you should take advantage of it, but it seems like it would be pretty simple to show while maintaining anonymity.
I hope your not taking this as some sort of attack on you. I don't even know you. I do support any work done to improve the BW community. I'm simply trying to ease some major concerns that I had for potential buyers and, in reality, for you as well. I'm not the one that is going to get attacked if someone get suspicious over the money. Personally, if i was in your shoes, I would make the effort to prove how much was purchased, how much is going to the organizers of the event, and how much is going to the next prize pool. It's a simple, smart, proactive action to take.
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
On April 26 2011 15:57 Game wrote:
Until people start trying to help the community instead of whining and trolling 24/7, they are just murmuring voices, therefore I am better than them. It's actually very simple logic. So while people may not like me, it's hard to like people whom are honest about their ambitions and thoughts. Sure, I could kiss ass to a bunch of people who make absolutely no contribution to something they seem to have martyred for and hold so dear, or at least that's how they try to portray themselves. But in hindsight and retrospect, I don't have enough time or want in my life to do such a time consuming thing. The grass is greener on the other side anyhow. Summary: talk is cheap.
100% agree with this. I understand why a lot of people dislike Game and I do think he could handle some situations more...politely. However, I'm not going to let my own personal 'morals' get in the way of doing something amazing for the BW community, so unless someone else comes up to me with solid plans for a $1000 starleague, I'm going to continue working with Game and appreciating everything he's doing for us.
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Canada5155 Posts
On April 26 2011 17:18 538 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 16:51 HawaiianPig wrote:
Just throwing this out there: This all reminds me of Combat-Ex asking for donations. If you dont offer criticism just dont throw in things like that. It's like you want to be vindicated in a debate without taking the time to actually make a point. "I think Game sucks. Discuss". Sure the act is questionable - and it has been questioned by countless people and mods before surely, in this very thread too -, but Game is not hiding from debate, standing behind his reasoning, and is at least promising to turn the proceedings towards an other community tournament like the ISL, that he has already delivered, not a penny for himself. (Or maybe you dont realize how much of an offense it is comparing someone to Combat-Ex in the scene?) As it is, your post reminds me of something rather terrible.
I opted to stay out of getting deeply into the debate because most of what I care to say has been said already.
Re:
On April 11 2011 02:48 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +As far as making money, 90% goes to another BW tournament. This is a good thing. If you disagree about the 10% going back to Game or noOne then I think we just have differing opinions. Yes, I know it sets it a precedent but 5-10% for organizing, finding sponsors, etc strikes me as reasonable. Chill/Day/Artosis et al. may not have asked for any money in return, but as I see it they certainly would have been more than deserving. The issue is that this community has a 10 year tradition of community projects being done for free. BWChart, RWAs, PenguinPlug, ChaosLauncher, WGTour, PGTour, iCCup, LMRB, and countless others. Now a few guys organize what must be the millionth tournament BW has had, and they want financial compensation for their 'hard work.' Those countless projects which not only needed hard work, but skilled persons to accomplish... That is, often someone who actually has training in programming. Yeah, it's just a little insulting to the rich tradition of BW Community History.
Also: I'm very aware of what that comparison implies, and I fail to see how different this situation is. Combat-Ex would ask for donations for a service he provides "for free" to the community; granted it was a very awful service full of misinformation... his intentions were still about the same as this replay pack. To help expand what he saw as a boon to the community and to get something back in return as compensation for "hard work."
The real testament to how ridiculous this is lies in how this entire thread has been nothing but bickering. It very much is reminiscent of discussions regarding Combat Ex's donations.
I'm sorry if that realization of mine offends.
Transparency with the funds and straight up donations rather than withholding of replays would make this look a lot better.
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On April 26 2011 16:58 HawaiianPig wrote:But, but but, Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 05:24 Game wrote:
Disclosure:
This move is not a representation of the AoV iCCup Starleague staff, sponsors, or any participants, this is a sole effort to further the tournament.
Son of a 5am!
To HawaiianPig: Anyhow, I do concur that my approach here wasn't as well thought out as it should be. Not there this is much wrong with it, just more that I didn't think of the community I'd be posting into. Specifically the whiners and naysayers.
To Deja: You literally just asked me to give a screenshot of peoples personal account information for the likes of appeasing people I don't want to. Just sayin.
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
On April 26 2011 17:55 Game wrote:
I didn't think of the community I'd be posting into. Specifically the whiners and naysayers.
I did warn you
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To Game: You realize I didn't say that?
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On April 26 2011 17:47 HawaiianPig wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 17:18 538 wrote:On April 26 2011 16:51 HawaiianPig wrote:
Just throwing this out there: This all reminds me of Combat-Ex asking for donations. If you dont offer criticism just dont throw in things like that. It's like you want to be vindicated in a debate without taking the time to actually make a point. "I think Game sucks. Discuss". Sure the act is questionable - and it has been questioned by countless people and mods before surely, in this very thread too -, but Game is not hiding from debate, standing behind his reasoning, and is at least promising to turn the proceedings towards an other community tournament like the ISL, that he has already delivered, not a penny for himself. (Or maybe you dont realize how much of an offense it is comparing someone to Combat-Ex in the scene?) As it is, your post reminds me of something rather terrible. I opted to stay out of getting deeply into the debate because most of what I care to say has been said already.
Seems like you just wanted your voice heard, without investing much time or effort. That's simply not good forum etiquette, kinda implies your opinion is more important than others'. Just imagine what would happen if everyone just posted "I agree with A or B" instead of making an argument. That's not contributing anything to the conversation, it's just a flamebait. (Though increasing your post count and the thread size too)
I'm just arguing that next time you form an opinion of something, you shant necessarily post it. (If you agree with something you can at least quote what parts you exactly argue with, maybe even try to refute some claims that were made against said point. Otherwise, once again, maybe it's not worth mentioning at all)
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It's actually sad that JoeKim and noOne want that money, how selfish is that?
There are thousands of people online who do such stuff for free, even better things. How exactly have they been involved in all this, since afaik Game did most of the work.
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On April 26 2011 21:58 LML wrote:
It's actually sad that JoeKim and noOne want that money, how selfish is that?
There are thousands of people online who do such stuff for free, even better things. How exactly have they been involved in all this, since afaik Game did most of the work.
To Marius: nOoNe and JoeKim had different, but important roles. Not only did they weekly help with counter abuse and watching massive amounts of replay packs, but refereed a brunt of the tournament. My decisions were final, but they were the means to an end while I was casting or running Clan League for LRM) or what not. They were primary staff as well as helped me with planning. You can thank nOoNe for the format of the map pool, as well as some of the maps. You can thank him for me not cancelling the tournament when iCCup was being retarded (status quo). There are other things, but onto JoeKim. JoeKim mediated my mediator voice. I literally ran almost every major decision by him and talked them out with him, not as if he ran the tournament, but that's time consuming. I mean there are lots of things, but all in all nOoNe and JoeKim were very much involved in this tournament. Specifically nOoNe spent about 1/3 as many man hours as I did in this tournament, and that's a lot.
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will replay packs from post isl round of 56 be released to the public for free??
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In a way, I feel for Game. If you've not been a part of this community for a very long time, it must be hard to understand why you'd get such a harsh reaction. I think when this thread was closed, it was to save you from that criticism... Were it just left closed, you would have understood it's not a popular idea at TL. I guess when it was reopened, they just wanted you to see for yourself what happens when you do something like this.
At the same time though, you are so abrasive, and unwilling to accept criticism... I can't feel too badly. It's reality that people don't like your idea. That's not something I made up, or am concocting to defame you. To call these people nay-sayers and whiners and whatever other names you've been throwing out is just denial of what's happened. You had a bad idea. The community didn't like it. It's your fault, not the community's for not liking your idea.
So don't feel too bad for yourself Your snappy comments are what took this from being a generally not very good idea to being personal.
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On April 27 2011 01:33 Chef wrote:In a way, I feel for Game. If you've not been a part of this community for a very long time, it must be hard to understand why you'd get such a harsh reaction. I think when this thread was closed, it was to save you from that criticism... Were it just left closed, you would have understood it's not a popular idea at TL. I guess when it was reopened, they just wanted you to see for yourself what happens when you do something like this. At the same time though, you are so abrasive, and unwilling to accept criticism... I can't feel too badly. It's reality that people don't like your idea. That's not something I made up, or am concocting to defame you. To call these people nay-sayers and whiners and whatever other names you've been throwing out is just denial of what's happened. You had a bad idea. The community didn't like it. It's your fault, not the community's for not liking your idea. So don't feel too bad for yourself Your snappy comments are what took this from being a generally not very good idea to being personal.
That post was pointless. I already conceded that there could have been a better approach - first two paragraphs eliminated.
Last sentence: I don't feel bad for myself at all, nor is this personal. If there is anyone I feel bad for it is you, based on your delusional banter.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
I can say I totally support Game. He does the big thing for keeping foreign BW alive. Who knows how it's gonna result in the future. At least now we have a BM, but extremely skilled player of Scan. And a sometimes failing, but extremely BM skilled Heme, rofl.
Any money going into BW is precious. Though I hope even for more serious sponsorship from serious sponsors in the future.
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On April 27 2011 01:51 Game wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:33 Chef wrote:In a way, I feel for Game. If you've not been a part of this community for a very long time, it must be hard to understand why you'd get such a harsh reaction. I think when this thread was closed, it was to save you from that criticism... Were it just left closed, you would have understood it's not a popular idea at TL. I guess when it was reopened, they just wanted you to see for yourself what happens when you do something like this. At the same time though, you are so abrasive, and unwilling to accept criticism... I can't feel too badly. It's reality that people don't like your idea. That's not something I made up, or am concocting to defame you. To call these people nay-sayers and whiners and whatever other names you've been throwing out is just denial of what's happened. You had a bad idea. The community didn't like it. It's your fault, not the community's for not liking your idea. So don't feel too bad for yourself Your snappy comments are what took this from being a generally not very good idea to being personal. That post was pointless. I already conceded that there could have been a better approach - first two paragraphs eliminated. Last sentence: I don't feel bad for myself at all, nor is this personal. If there is anyone I feel bad for it is you, based on your delusional banter.
Then why do you feel the need to make responses like that? You are continually unable to show genuine humility. 'I concede... BUT ONE MORE THING BEFORE IM DONE blah blah blah. your post is pointless... blah blah... you're delusional.' I'm trying to tell you that you have a shitty attitude and that's what needs to be fixed if you want more people to support your projects.
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This is basically a donation to continue the tournament then, which is perfectly reasonable. But i think it might rub people up the wrong way because of how it's been put. Not to mention it's against the game's EULA. Also i agree with people that if there's one thing which is not lacking among the community, it's peoples time.. anything that simply requires a lot of time people are willing to do for free.
Shame kolll didn't win the tournament then this wouldn't even be needed..
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Well I think if this is business then just let people do their business... The guys who want to buy will buy it, the guys who don't want won't... just like selling apples in the market. You guys talk about mentality so much but this is just a buy/sell business, let them do it the same way it has been done for centuries...
One remark though, the seller shouldn't bad mount potential customers lol.
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All of this shenanigans from TL's forum posters is good for the fundraising of the next starleague, no sarcasm intended. Thanks for helping keep this thread alive.
Also, the next starleague is shaping out to be incredible. Note [AoV] in name.
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On April 27 2011 03:56 Shade[AoV] wrote:
All of this shenanigans from TL's forum posters is good for the fundraising of the next starleague, no sarcasm intended. Thanks for helping keep this thread alive.
Also, the next starleague is shaping out to be incredible. Note [AoV] in name.
fuck yes ^_^
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On April 27 2011 01:07 Game wrote:
.... when iCCup was being retarded (status quo).
Save this quote as answer to your future question.
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On April 27 2011 16:16 LG)cheloman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:07 Game wrote:
.... when iCCup was being retarded (status quo).
Save this quote as answer to your future question.
It's official, Game is like Archie... What mischief will he get into next?
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EPT
