P v T need SERIOUS HELP PLZ!
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nArAnjO
Peru2571 Posts
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HovZ
United States1917 Posts
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nArAnjO
Peru2571 Posts
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Casper...
Liberia4948 Posts
the most prominent counter to this is 1 gate goon robo fast double expansion. then mass units with no tech and no upgrades beyond legs and range. maybe 1 shuttle but more on that later. trouble spots: terran gets quick port and cliffs you. so get a shuttle faster and time it with around how long it would take him to get dropship. of course, ob would tell you if he was doing this long before hand. terran quick 3 fact vults after expo and cuts scvs to get more stuff fast. you need more skill then t to defeat this and also need to cut probes to get zealots/shuttle faster. shuttle is 100% needed here as are cannons for your 2nd exp. harder to identify with observer then the dropship route for obvious reasons. bottom line is to have more zealots then he has vults and more goons then he has tanks. if outnumbered get tech or shuttles. | ||
nArAnjO
Peru2571 Posts
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nArAnjO
Peru2571 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
Regards FrozenArbiter | ||
nArAnjO
Peru2571 Posts
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ErOs_Probe
Netherlands680 Posts
gororok@hotmail.com | ||
nArAnjO
Peru2571 Posts
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Talith
United States1102 Posts
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PunkSkeleton
Poland226 Posts
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nArAnjO
Peru2571 Posts
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Bleww
United States1080 Posts
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Elsi
United Kingdom8173 Posts
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Zaphod
Australia192 Posts
On February 05 2003 18:38 nArAnjO wrote: Hi, well i someone would be kind enough to help me on this match, i know most say P >> T , but, mines take out zealots by 10, and tanks take out goonz by 5, so when i finally arrive to strike them face to face i haf a minimal attack force and i get RAPED! =( , i just can't win against a decent terran, me being protoss, PLZ help me what should i do on this match(especially if they go mass tanks, powers from 2 or three bases, then all UNSTOPABBLE PUSH. Thanx i think u may be exaggertaing a bit here have u considered that u just might suck? sorry that isnt quite right, im just exaggerating | ||
Justoss
United States41 Posts
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animal
South Africa168 Posts
My preferred build is initial dt tech -> dt drop. dt's stop most T initial rushes/pushes, and puts you on the offensive, which is the most important step. While he's defending himself from your attacks, he's not attacking you, which is what you want. On a map such as Blade Storm where base distance is somewhat increased, I will gas before gate; LT I do more std. Building order is roughly something like std pylon, gas, gate, cyb, goon, citadel, put probe outside his base to scout rushes, goon, temple, dt, shuttle bay, gate, goon, dt, shuttle, obs building, goon range, goon, etc. etc. (Build depends heavily on gas availability and what happens with initial dt's in his base, you might have to goon more or get goon range earlier) General Strat: Probe scout after building your initial pylon. If you can get into his base, do laps and see if he's going marine/tank/vult if you can. Offensive gas him if he's slow. Cancel/rebuild it as many times as you can. After a while, put a second probe outside his base to see any attacks coming from the front. Attack with your initial goon just to annoy him. Tech heavily to dt, and move dt up to his base. If you can, use your goon to try to make sure he hasn't mined his ramp. If he doesn't, dt/goon up there and see if he has turret. If not; attack one of the entrance buildings and see if you can get it before he gets turrets. As soon as you get a shuttle, get your dt(s) into his base. Harrass all the way. Move goons back to own base, unless it looks like you can use dt's + goons to make a breach in the entrance and gg right there (possibly). Expand, get production going, mass units, expand again, harrass etc. Specific: There exists mainly 4 early scenarios that T uses: 1) Fast expand : Usually he'll get a few tanks, and burrow in with his natural. Go dt drop before expanding yourself. Usually t will have expo area well covered with 2 or so tanks; and maybe 1 odd tank covering his main, depending on when you hit him. He'll be more vulnerable than usual because he now has to cover 2 locations. DT Priority of attack = 1 turrets, 2 tanks / vultures, 3 scv's, 4 other buildings you can safely reach. If he's well covered, attack all the outlying buildings you can in his main until you have at least 2+ dt's. Depending on position/reinforcement you might run at his turret/tank and take out one of the two (make sure your dt's stand a bit away from each other or attack from different sides so they don't get splash damaged). If you decide you can't take his tank/turret, keep harassing buildings and increase your dt count in his base. If he moves more units to his main, see if he's natural is vulnerable etc. If he's not going drop, move your main goon force closer in case he temporarily leaves his natural (near-)defenceless in order to attack your dt's. 2) Drop : T will usually drop 2 tanks, 1tank+2vults, or 4 vultures. Move all goons you build to your mineral line. His drop tech should roughly be equal to inbetween your dt / drop tech, by which time you should have about 1-2dt, 3goons - depending. Your ramp is not protected since you should have a probe/dt somewhere near his base, spotting for frontal attacks, e.g. 4 vults. Quite often Terrans will take everything they have when dropping, leaving their entrance vulnerable to dt if you don't have shuttle yet. So he drops you first: If there are tanks, take them out asap. 2 tanks with dropship is usually > 2 goons. 3 (nonrange) goons can take the tanks (altho with some bad luck they might not). Don't be afraid to use some probes 1tank+2vult, take out the tank, then the vults, but make sure not to lose goons, or worse, set off mines and blow up probes. You should have obs by this time. Rather use 2 probes to clear mines that any number of non-ranged goons. 3) Frontal Rush : e.g. he sees you're protecting back, and rushes in the front with 4+vults. Usually you should spot this, either with your advance probe or advance dt. If you have your second dt, block your ramp with it, else attempt a goon block. You might be vulnerable at this time if he gets into your base and you don't have range or obs, altho most likely if he went fast vults he'll be just as vulnerable to your dt's. Then it's time to micro your ass off, and lose as few goons/probes to mines. 4) Push of whatever type : Around about dt#1 or #2, he begins to push you with say 1-2 tank, 2-4vults, 2-4odd marines, 2+ or so scv's. Usually when this is done, the T takes about everything he's got, in order to make sure you don't break out of the containment he's going to set up. If you're dt's are late, your advance probe will know he's coming. If you're dt pops out before he gets there, have your dt intercept him, but be careful of mines. If you're dt's are fast enough, a push won't happen as often, because the T would most likely use most of these units to secure his base from your dt(s). Depending on how he starts containment, you might consider dt dropping his base anyway, in order to force him to pull his units back. If not, try to get rid of containment asap. So you survived the initial strife, and you're hopefully not contained in your base. Next order of business is your expansions. If you stopped his initial rush or initial push, have an odd dt in his base poking around to annoy him, it's time to expo + get cannons as well as +1 attack. Take your natural+build at least 2 cannons there and at your main, and also make sure you have obs/shuttle by this time. Keep your shuttle between ferrying dt's and protecting your cliff. (Put some units on your cliff immediately, unless you have good obs of his base and know he's not dropping). Build 2+ more gateways and get storm + zealot legs + ht mana (Mana is good for just spawned ht's, cause they then start with more energy). Build 2 ht's or so, and beging to build more zeals than goons. Usually at this point you'd have lost most of your dt's in his base. Use your shuttle to drop a probe/dt or other units (or use obs) on the islands if there are, to see if he tries to expand there. Also have permanent checks on ALL the other positions, or at least an obs or 2 that patrols several positions. Increase your shuttle count to at least 2, preferably with speed. You should have about 2 groups of units by now. Next up, do your second expansion (I usually take another start location); and do some ht / dt drops. LTemple is quite protected, and it's likely he's put up 20 turrets in response to your dt's On other maps with larger bases he might very well have holes for you to drop in. Std dt action if you can. If you can't get into his base, storm his cliffs. If he has tanks below + floating buildings, take a zeal along, drop it first and run it to the cliff. Send your ht after. Zeal dies heroically while ht gets a storm or what off. (Also useful in-base) This is key, you must keep T from mining as much as you can In your second exp, build pylons, cannons (at least 2 cannons around every nexus) + maybe 3 or so at ramp, do gas + a few more gateways. Also go for multiple upgrades at this point. Usually this is the next point where T attacks with several tanks (10-16odd), vults (8+), M&M's, scv's and so on, or begins to push heavily. Let him push/move on you a bit, and play smart with your obs so you can see when he moves (and what). That's at least 3+ obs in the field over him. Pick your time to attack (Best = when he groups his tanks). If he knows what he's doing and spreads out nicely, let him push you, but spread your units all around him, e.g. 1 group above him, 1 below, 1 in the direction he's pushing. Then when you're ready, attack him. Focus on the tanks as much as you can. Storm them tanks into the slag that they are You should also have 2 shuttles to drop zeals+dt's+maybe 1 or so ht behind walls. If you did everything right: harrassed well with dt, expanded at the right times, have enough gates with constant production, you'll come out on top. Quite likely the battle in the middle ended even or maybe even slightly in his favour, BUT, you have the resource advantage and you're pumping units faster from many many gates. Keep expanding; if you're minerals go over 150 or so for every gateway you have, build more gateways or tech to a) 3 or so Corsairs with Disruption Web : Great for groups of tanks, bunker/tank combo's, or even better : nullifying base defenses for dt/ht drops b) Arbiters : With just the cloaking alone, he can push right up to you without knowing, so you're units have much less distance to run when attacking or to storm. Base Recalls can also be handy, although you have to be careful not to waste units. Usually the T will be able to send a second wave at you, but by the time of the 3rd, he'll run out of steam and you can plow over him. hf | ||
ErOs_Probe
Netherlands680 Posts
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soepie
Netherlands36 Posts
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