G.O.A.T: Boxer or Nada? - Page 3

On October 30 2010 12:49 kawatan wrote:


yeah, boxers still better looking though.

On October 30 2010 13:08 kawatan wrote:


...than before.

sure the dude has made great canyon length strides in an effort to prettify himself -- but you can only go so far.

plus he cant sing and dance like boxer can:

On October 30 2010 14:55 GolemMadness wrote:
I don't understand people's replies to this. Yeah, Boxer's the most influential and founded everything and all that, but none of that is relevant in this thread. This isn't most popular, most influential, etc. It's best. Clearly Boxer is not the best player ever.

NaDa is better than Boxer for a simple reason:

Perfection.

It is a cliche statement saying that Terran was easiest race to learn but the hardest to master, and if their is a master in every single aspect of the terran race it is NaDa.

But, let us not forget who made NaDa, indirectly, what he is today, and this is BoxeR. In fact, every terran player owes BoxeR their right or left index fingers, because without him, we would be no where but the bottom of StarCraft Universe with no consistent winning strategies. The man created the Terran Wall for the love of God. The simple little thing almost every terran learns in Terran Versus Protoss, was something that was unheard of.

NaDa, took BoxeR's ideas and perfected him. I have watched hundreds of NaDa Replays, and hundreds of BoxeR's and I have come to the conclusion of a few things.

BoxeR's strengths were his creative prowess, and his unbelievably incredible micro. He didn't have to have millions of units to take down another player, he needed the right units. But his macro sucked, and espicially this is noticeable in his Terran Versus Protoss matchup which he has won 48% of the time.

NaDa on the other hand, took the safe builds, e.g. Fact Port, Double Fact, Fact Expo, in TvP, (which imo is his best and most famous matchup) to name a few, and perfected them with brilliant micro, and a macro that wasn't close to being matched till iloveoov came along, and that's a whole 'nother subject.

NaDa is the reason why Terrans dominated StarCraft not in just pro-leagues, but in battle.net in general, (and they did among decent and average players) was because Zerg and Protoss could not match the macroing power of a Terran. WHICH was brought on by NaDa, and his perfected strategies and timing, that damn near every terran fucking copied off of him. I did, i religiously used his Fact Port to the best of my advantage.

Someone who will reply to this saying in the foreign department, that Terran didn't dominate, but what I Am saying, as a player who has played since 2000, when the Pro Leagues were being dominated by NaDa, the ranks of c3 to b5 had been dominated by Terrans. And I don't have the statistics with me, but I will search for them on WGTour's website.

BoxeR and NaDa are both masters of the Terran Race, but NaDa (without thinking about iloveoov for a second) might of been the closest to perfect, and please don't talk to me about Xellos, cause NaDa deserves the nickname Perfect Terran more then that guy ever has.

On October 30 2010 12:39 hacklebeast wrote:
I interpert "best" as "most skilled," and I think that boxer had less "skill" than any progamer with 3+ titles.

He was my favorite though. So if "best" is "best to watch," than SlayerS_BoxeR all the way.

On October 30 2010 13:34 SimonB wrote:

Am I? Boxer had those 11 months or so back in 2000, but after that Nada defined terran. Pretty quickly you saw all terrans look more and more like Nada. Oov brought another step forward away from Boxer, and that was that for his gimmicky style.

Today, you can look at a Nada game from '01-'03 and you can see the roots of Flash's style, but you look at a Boxer game from then or before and it's completely alien to modern SC (or really anything from the last five years).

Boxer means only slightly more to me than Garimto (which really shouldn't be an insult, but most Boxer fanboys will take it as such).

On October 30 2010 12:26 dani_caliKorea wrote:
Boxer = most influential
Nada = the greatest
Oov = most dominant?

On October 30 2010 16:03 dukethegold wrote:


First of all, wtf are you talking about? Boxer was on top of Kespa ranking for 17 MONTHS STRAIGHT! THE LONGEST IN HISTORY! Nada only had 16 months straight on top of Kespa, Savior only managed to stay on Kespa #1 for 8 months straight, while your homie boy Flash only overtook Jaedong since this year's march!

(Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=58797 )

Second of all, have you ever heard something called "progression"? Of course the gameplay would not remain the same throughout the entire decade! But do you even know what the hell Boxer invented for Terran? He invented the MOTHERFUCKING TERRAN WALL IN! He also was the very first to use dropship play against anybody! Without him, Terran v.s. Terran would be a one and half hour tank v.s. tank into suiciding tank into battlecruiser turtlefest into snooze. That alone would kill the brood war scene before it became a proper sport! He also was the FIRST to demonstrate micro play! Prior to that it was just army v.s. army. He brought MECHANICS to Brood War and made it look like something of a competitive sport. He was playing Terran before the balance overhauling 1.08 patch and when Terran was universally considered to be a trash race. He changed that and inspired a new generation of Terran players. Can you even imagine a game succeeding at its infancy when the general public considers one of the three playable races to be unplayable? He is the father, the Emperor of Terran because he was the one who laid down the basic mechanics and builds necessary to win against other races. Whoever came after him, be it Nada, Oov or Flash build upon those basics, the basics to enable a Terran to win a game. You got a difficult case ahead of you if you want to argue that the modifier is more influential than the inventor.

Gimmicky? I will have you know that before Boxer, gimmicky doesn't even exist in brood war. He opened up the minds of millions and made future players realize that there are endless possibilities in brood war. I assume you are the type of person who likes to watch standard play v.s. standard play, mirror build v.s. mirror build. I have no problem with that. But let me tell you, I'd shoot myself if somebody force me to watch a show consisted of nothing but that, and I think a large percentage of bw fans would agree with me.

Now then, I don't think you know your starcraft lore AT ALL. Nada and your homie boy Flash can be Warcraft 3 players instead and their lack of presence would not affect Brood War at all in comparison to Boxer's contribution. Let me make this clear, without Boxer, there is no "pro" in professional e-sport scene. Boxer was amongst the very first to play Starcraft in a competitive manner. Granted, Nada was also there, but he was doing next to nothing notable during Boxer's reign. Nada peaked later on. While everybody else was playing the game, Boxer was the person with the help of OGN to make Brood War KNOWN to the mainstream public, which does not mean your adolescent year old nerd population, but means the population that include your father and your grandfather and great grandfather. He made Brood War's presence known to the public by appearing on numerous television shows, radio shows, National Assembly, Air Force Academy, meeting with the politicians to advocate for government support, and made a deep impression upon the general public, making brood war known the people across different generations. That's why Boxer is the world's ONLY e-sport ICON. Not idol like your homie boy Flash, but ICON. Because he is the sole embodiment of e-sport and the sole bridge between e-sport and the mainstream. I have friends who can't even beat the A.I. in brood war but know who Boxer is and I know some Korean adults in their 30s who know who Boxer is. Without Boxer, you can say there is no professional BW.

Not to mention that Boxer literally founded SKT from scratch and was the primary cause behind the creation of ACE. His contributions are so numerous that it is undeniable that he is the most influential starcraft player in history.

I recommend people who know nothing about Boxer to read this article:
http://senseofstar.blogspot.com/2006/11/slayersboxer.html

On October 30 2010 13:16 travis wrote:


isn't jaedong the most dominant? or savior even?