Stop Worrying! - Page 4

SC2 is a pretty good game guys :D

On September 27 2010 12:14 dukethegold wrote:
I say the lack of innovation and competition would kill the brood war scene. There are very few innovators left in pro-gaming scene and most just play standard - which is boring. There are only couple leaders, like Fantasy and Zero, and the rest are all imitators. The new generation of players are simply encouraged to follow the footsteps of the old without being encouraged to create new. Players are too concerned with winning and too afraid of losing to try anything new or be concerned with the desires of the fans.

Like Jaedong and Nada said, the skill gap between progamers are actually pretty close, so they do not dare to do anything creative/risky in fear of losses. The fans aren't helping either. They expect their champions to win against xxx or it's matchfixing rumor mill. If their champion does something gimmicky and loses, negative pressure would be exerted that cause the affected player to lose motivation in innovation. It's a vicious cycle.

For example, Fantasy. He is pretty much the ONLY player remaining in the scene who tries new stuff every other match. Look at all the hate he is getting from TL, for both victory and defeat.

Oh, and of course, it's basically Flash v.s. Jaedong fest right now. Without variation, it simply isn't entertaining.

I am pretty damn sure that the current e-sport scene is not gaining viewership, but rather steadily losing it. If you look at the current trend, most of those who attend a SC live-event are all teens or early 20s. For GSL, it's pretty much all young guys (not even girls). If you look back at the old vods, the age of Boxer and Nada, their fanbase is composed of fans of various generations and ages.

So yeah, I think it's dying.

What e-sport NEEDS is a leader, someone who truly shines, outspoken, charismatic, able to unite all e-sport fans and attract new fans across the generations by reaching out to the mainstream like Boxer once did. We need somebody with Flash's mentality, Stork's personality, Fantasy's creativity, and Bisu's face.

On September 28 2010 05:08 Iplaythings wrote:
Id usually take 10 minutes to get a game at best

Before beta this was rarely above 2 minutes, yep, sc2 killed my BW and made me turn to LoL =)

On September 28 2010 05:46 Ver wrote:
SC mapped out? Few innovators/innovations? Are we watching the same games here? The late 2009/2010 season has been one of the most innovative years ever! There's a large amount of exploring left in many of these systems.

For Terran alone (listing general systems, not the absurd amount of variations):

TvZ-
Safe 14cc on 2 player maps
a dozen different variations of bio -> mech and vice versa with a lot more room for further exploration (this is huge!)
Flexible Valkyrie first openings that can transition into many different possibilities
A totally new approach vs 2 hatch muta with aggressive marine pushes (changes a lot)
7 Rax (and overlord snipes from it)
4 rax -> triple port wraith
2 rax acad allins
3rd denial vs 3 hatch muta (very unexplored and complex)
2 base allin vs crazy zerg (3 hatch muta to ultra)
Revolutionary lategame defense based off of aggressive vessel raids, covering infantry, and massed tanks (probably the biggest change in years along with bio-mech transitions)
12pool Lair with a very different and expansive early/midgame
Improvements on overall mech play (several new midgame options)
Heavy and consistent Vulture/Valkyrie!? (totally unexplored)

TvP- Many different 3 base timings
Many variations in the 2 fact after cc system both from siege expand and from FD
12 Nexus variations and emphasis
1 fact mine double expand in response to 12 Nexus
New midgame Carrier transition ideas both before and after arbiters
Rax Expand!! (a huge system with tons more exploration but right now there are many variations already)

+ Show Spoiler [Some specific games] +

As long as the pro scene stays alive in courts BW is fine. SC2 is just new (and getting many temporary tournies/players because of this) and people need a break from BW. Give half a year/year and things should be looking better.

On September 28 2010 06:58 swanized wrote:

LOL

while I of course enjoy creative play, I never found a real problem with standard paly and dont really understand the complaints about it being boring, anyways <3 zero, <3 Fanta, <3 G5, and completely agree with OP

On September 27 2010 22:39 ShadeR wrote:
@^ Whilst i might disagree with you on how "obvious" it is that proBW will die soon. Isn't it a pity that we'll have to settle with SC2....

On September 28 2010 05:27 CurLy[] wrote:
SC2 is a pretty good game guys :D

On September 28 2010 08:59 funnybananaman wrote:
I believe there's still plenty of room for innovation in brood war, meta games are always changing. While there may not be as much room for variety as there used to be back in the old days, the fact is that thats because bw is played at such a high level across the board now that the game is really well understood by all top players. And is a high, if more consistent, standard of play really a bad thing? I think it makes sc able to be viewed as a real professional sport.

I mean, think of other sports: You could probably view chess in a similar way, most of the crazy innovation was done in the infancy of the game. The only difference is that was in like the middle ages and shit (and probably last 200 years) but now a high standard of play has been set so you don't see as much variety as i'm sure you used to. But that doesn't have to make it any less entertaining or awesome.

On September 28 2010 10:47 kawatan wrote:
there are more moves in chess than there are atoms in the known universe or some such quote i cant remember exactly but i feel this came from some eminent guy so bw being far more complicated than chess as i believe it to be is impossible to perfect

On September 28 2010 06:02 Ideas wrote:
<3 Ver



I won't settle. If BW dies, my SC days are over. unless SC3 comes out in 12 years and is actually as good as bw lol

Starcraft is not the same as it was two years ago. Two years ago we witnessed Bisu literally turn the Starcraft world on it's head as he took out Savior. Over the course of the year, the old players we forum veterans had known for years began to slip away - and were replaced with a bunch of rookies we had no emotional affiliation with... Well, that was until they took out our beloved players from the OSL/MSL. The new gamers had been accumulating since the Shinhan series of OSLs but were only just now spilling over into full league dominance. The names Bisu, Stork, Jaedong, Flash, Luxury, Yellow[arnc], Best, Kal, free, firebathero, Mind, Jangbi and Hwasin became familiar, and we grew to love them just like we had done with the previous generation.

Batoo OSL is a point where we have once attained a balance in the proscene. The players making it far into the leagues are not masses of random rookies that are unfamiliar to us, they are players that we know and love who have been growing over time.

On September 28 2010 14:22 Crunchums wrote:
The only thing I'm worried about is the lack of new blood coming into the BW proscene. From Batoo OSL writeup, emphasis mine:

The rate of incoming new players who can challenge the veterans has slowed to a crawl. Go look at the first page of TLPD players; very few of them were unknowns at that time, and none of the ones that are are a credible threat to win an individual league even if you got rid of Flash and Jaedong. You want to count Effort, fine, but Stats, Horang2, and Action aren't exactly tearing shit up. Maybe Baby can make some noise?
It's no wonder that this is happening - the skill level has risen so high that it must be insanely hard to even break into a team's proleague lineup, let alone hang with established players like Stork, Sea, fantasy, or free... and then there's Flash and Jaedong.
If pro BW dies I wouldn't be so quick to heap the blame onto SC2.

On September 28 2010 14:28 Ideas wrote:
it's funny because baby has been around for like 3 years now and everyone knows him lol. there's no way he's "new".

stats, snow and action seem to be the best of the newest generation.