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On February 21 2011 05:15 xMiragex wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2011 05:14 l0st_romantic wrote:On February 21 2011 05:11 xMiragex wrote:On February 21 2011 04:58 TwoToneTerran wrote:On February 21 2011 04:34 Elefanto wrote:
Well, you can argue, bisu did change the flow of the game, how its played during his peak / prime,
like the bonjwas did before him.
What did Flash? He won everything, no doubt a fucking huge accomplishment and i have great respect for that, but that did/is he really contribute/ing to the game during his peak?
Nothing special, he does the same like every terran, just better. The mass tank thing was probably the biggest change in TvZ since the destination-mech craze, as well as inane amounts of match specific timing pushes no one's seen before (WHY DO THOSE GOLIATHS HAVE MEDIC MARINE BACKING). Also, in TvP he's kind of taken the 12nex bunker rush to a different extreme, invented that weird attack that's like a super fake double which every protoss and their mothers prepare for every game against him. It becomes more obvious how much he personally changes TvP when you see almost every protoss that beats him pulls out some crazy new strategy (4 gate push in broodwar, what the hell stork?!). It might not be as plainly obvious as when bisu sair dt'd savior to pieces, but I'd say Flash has changed the game just as not if not more than everyone since Savior. Mass tank thing was Midas and Fantasy's thing. I think what Twotone means here is the lategame mech switch that Flash pulled vs Kwanro on Roadrunner. That's what im referring to as well. Its the same thing, well obviously executed better.
Fantasy and Midas didn't invent that. Show me the first game you saw it appear in, please
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United States10328 Posts
On February 21 2011 05:18 l0st_romantic wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2011 05:15 xMiragex wrote:On February 21 2011 05:14 l0st_romantic wrote:On February 21 2011 05:11 xMiragex wrote:On February 21 2011 04:58 TwoToneTerran wrote:On February 21 2011 04:34 Elefanto wrote:
Well, you can argue, bisu did change the flow of the game, how its played during his peak / prime,
like the bonjwas did before him.
What did Flash? He won everything, no doubt a fucking huge accomplishment and i have great respect for that, but that did/is he really contribute/ing to the game during his peak?
Nothing special, he does the same like every terran, just better. The mass tank thing was probably the biggest change in TvZ since the destination-mech craze, as well as inane amounts of match specific timing pushes no one's seen before (WHY DO THOSE GOLIATHS HAVE MEDIC MARINE BACKING). Also, in TvP he's kind of taken the 12nex bunker rush to a different extreme, invented that weird attack that's like a super fake double which every protoss and their mothers prepare for every game against him. It becomes more obvious how much he personally changes TvP when you see almost every protoss that beats him pulls out some crazy new strategy (4 gate push in broodwar, what the hell stork?!). It might not be as plainly obvious as when bisu sair dt'd savior to pieces, but I'd say Flash has changed the game just as not if not more than everyone since Savior. Mass tank thing was Midas and Fantasy's thing. I think what Twotone means here is the lategame mech switch that Flash pulled vs Kwanro on Roadrunner. That's what im referring to as well. Its the same thing, well obviously executed better. Fantasy and Midas didn't invent that. Show me the first game you saw it appear in, please
well who did? from all accounts I've heard, Midas invented it...
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On February 21 2011 05:18 l0st_romantic wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2011 05:15 xMiragex wrote:On February 21 2011 05:14 l0st_romantic wrote:On February 21 2011 05:11 xMiragex wrote:On February 21 2011 04:58 TwoToneTerran wrote:On February 21 2011 04:34 Elefanto wrote:
Well, you can argue, bisu did change the flow of the game, how its played during his peak / prime,
like the bonjwas did before him.
What did Flash? He won everything, no doubt a fucking huge accomplishment and i have great respect for that, but that did/is he really contribute/ing to the game during his peak?
Nothing special, he does the same like every terran, just better. The mass tank thing was probably the biggest change in TvZ since the destination-mech craze, as well as inane amounts of match specific timing pushes no one's seen before (WHY DO THOSE GOLIATHS HAVE MEDIC MARINE BACKING). Also, in TvP he's kind of taken the 12nex bunker rush to a different extreme, invented that weird attack that's like a super fake double which every protoss and their mothers prepare for every game against him. It becomes more obvious how much he personally changes TvP when you see almost every protoss that beats him pulls out some crazy new strategy (4 gate push in broodwar, what the hell stork?!). It might not be as plainly obvious as when bisu sair dt'd savior to pieces, but I'd say Flash has changed the game just as not if not more than everyone since Savior. Mass tank thing was Midas and Fantasy's thing. I think what Twotone means here is the lategame mech switch that Flash pulled vs Kwanro on Roadrunner. That's what im referring to as well. Its the same thing, well obviously executed better. Fantasy and Midas didn't invent that. Show me the first game you saw it appear in, please
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Late_mechanic
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141543
I remember seeing Fantasy use it before Flash but i already had heard that Midas was doing it before then. I can't personally link you the first game he used it on but liquipedia SHOULD be correct.
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10387 Posts
On February 21 2011 04:58 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2011 04:34 Elefanto wrote:
Well, you can argue, bisu did change the flow of the game, how its played during his peak / prime,
like the bonjwas did before him.
What did Flash? He won everything, no doubt a fucking huge accomplishment and i have great respect for that, but that did/is he really contribute/ing to the game during his peak?
Nothing special, he does the same like every terran, just better. The mass tank thing was probably the biggest change in TvZ since the destination-mech craze, as well as inane amounts of match specific timing pushes no one's seen before (WHY DO THOSE GOLIATHS HAVE MEDIC MARINE BACKING). Also, in TvP he's kind of taken the 12nex bunker rush to a different extreme, invented that weird attack that's like a super fake double which every protoss and their mothers prepare for every game against him. It becomes more obvious how much he personally changes TvP when you see almost every protoss that beats him pulls out some crazy new strategy (4 gate push in broodwar, what the hell stork?!). It might not be as plainly obvious as when bisu sair dt'd savior to pieces, but I'd say Flash has changed the game just as not if not more than everyone since Savior.
Alright, lets not get ahead of ourselves with what Flash invented. The Mass Tank was Midas's thing, and Bachanic Pushes predate Flash. As far as I know, Flash invented the MnM off-timing push for TvZ, the Goliath +1 armor timing push, the anit-carrier build and the tank-heavier Bachanic push in TvP (haven't seen that one before) and popularized the fast upgrades turtle play in TvP. Flash brought about a lot of changes, so lets not discredit him either.
Forgot to credit Flash for the Strong FD lol, but what do you mean by "12nex bunker rush to a different extreme"? I think bunker rush->vulture was done before Flash, not sure though.
I guess it just comes down to opinion then, whether or not Bisu could rival Flash in terms of "peak play". I say that because he's shown so many holy god moments, like the famous mine defense against Flash, his multitasking defense against Baby on PR, his multi-location harassment ability, the ability to strike at perfect timings and defeat build order losses (in PvP), and the ability to comeback in disadvantaged situations w/ the perfect decisions (see vPure on PR, vGreat on Icarus for a couple of examples). In this regard, its subjective I guess so we can agree to disagree.
On February 21 2011 05:08 l0st_romantic wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2011 04:58 TwoToneTerran wrote:On February 21 2011 04:34 Elefanto wrote:
Well, you can argue, bisu did change the flow of the game, how its played during his peak / prime,
like the bonjwas did before him.
What did Flash? He won everything, no doubt a fucking huge accomplishment and i have great respect for that, but that did/is he really contribute/ing to the game during his peak?
Nothing special, he does the same like every terran, just better. The mass tank thing was probably the biggest change in TvZ since the destination-mech craze, as well as inane amounts of match specific timing pushes no one's seen before (WHY DO THOSE GOLIATHS HAVE MEDIC MARINE BACKING). Also, in TvP he's kind of taken the 12nex bunker rush to a different extreme, invented that weird attack that's like a super fake double which every protoss and their mothers prepare for every game against him. It becomes more obvious how much he personally changes TvP when you see almost every protoss that beats him pulls out some crazy new strategy (4 gate push in broodwar, what the hell stork?!). It might not be as plainly obvious as when bisu sair dt'd savior to pieces, but I'd say Flash has changed the game just as not if not more than everyone since Savior. Yep. Savior invented one build and playstyle that forced people to practice and adopt to. Bisu countered that build. Flash invented a whole system of builds, a management "plan" that allows for the Terran to utilize scan, turrets to block incoming obs/scout denial, to consistently have the informational and decision advantage over other races. One of the biggest advantages of Terran that Flash has realized is that as a T you don't need to just defend fewer bases, you also don't need to worry about other races seeing what the heck you're doing inside your base if you lay out turrets properly, while comsat is essentially an unblockable maphack. That's Flash's innovation, and it plays out at a much deeper level than learning how to do cute shit with corsairs or DTs versus one specific Zerg build order.
man, what the hell are you talking about? You keep saying Flash has a management "plan", a whole "system of builds"(I'm not exactly clear what you mean by this, pls explain more)? And then you degrade Bisu's original revolution to simply cute shit? Hey I can do that too. Bisu has a whole management "plan" and a "system of choices" in PvZ because he realized the importance of the corsair in his Revolution. With the Corsair, he can figure out what the Zerg is up to and hit tight timing windows to punish the Zerg for being too greedy, whether it be with DT, Zealots or Reavers. You make it seem like all the other players just play without thinking, when all of the top players play the art of denying info have a series of plans and decision-making trees throughout their game.
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I think it's clear at this point that most of the people in this thread have absolutely no idea what they are talking about and are not bothered to do a little research or speak from adequate experience.
Ignore this post if you want, but all you are doing is furthering a pointless debate full of half-baked opinions based on an inadequate history of watching VODs, limited understanding of the game, and limited understanding of how progamers actually think and play.
Sooner or later somebody like ArvickHero who actually knows what he is talking about is going to come along and smack everyone.
Don't get butthurt now.
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On February 21 2011 05:32 ArvickHero wrote:
Alright, lets not get ahead of ourselves with what Flash invented. The Mass Tank was Midas's thing, and Bachanic Pushes predate Flash. As far as I know, Flash invented the MnM off-timing push for TvZ, the Goliath +1 armor timing push, the anit-carrier build and the tank-heavier Bachanic push in TvP (haven't seen that one before) and popularized the fast upgrades turtle play in TvP. Flash brought about a lot of changes, so lets not discredit him either.
It's like how people credit fantasy with the whole mech revolution when Upmagic was making those builds demonstrably before him. There's specific credit to be had in taking an underused build and turning it into a complete metagame shift.
Forgot to credit Flash for the Strong FD lol, but what do you mean by "12nex bunker rush to a different extreme"? I think bunker rush->vulture was done before Flash, not sure though.
Same as above -- it had obviously been done before to some degree, but fine tuning and executing it the best presents innovation.
I guess it just comes down to opinion then, whether or not Bisu could rival Flash in terms of "peak play". I say that because he's shown so many holy god moments, like the famous mine defense against Flash, his multitasking defense against Baby on PR, his multi-location harassment ability, the ability to strike at perfect timings and defeat build order losses (in PvP), and the ability to comeback in disadvantaged situations w/ the perfect decisions (see vPure on PR, vGreat on Icarus for a couple of examples). In this regard, its subjective I guess so we can agree to disagree.
I understand where you're coming from, and feel free to just say "I disagree" after this, but "famous defense," "multitasking," "multi-location harass," and by far most specifically coming back from build order losses (or more specifically, bad situations) with perfectly timed attacks, ESPECIALLY in the mirror (TvT) -- doesn't this all sound like Flash last year? I mean you mentioned 2 specific games which I totally remember. Those are the games that make me understand and agree with Bisu fans sometimes, but Flash has literally DOZENS of those amazing comebacks against all races.
I know it's subjective, which is why I put that little clause at the beginning, but Flash seems to be everything you praise Bisu for taken to a greater extreme. The one thing I could faulter on is "multi-tasking," because that's really hard to quantify and point out sometimes, but everything else seems like what WON Flash his titles.
On February 21 2011 05:42 LunarC wrote:
I think it's clear at this point that most of the people in this thread have absolutely no idea what they are talking about and are not bothered to do a little research or speak from adequate experience.
Ignore this post if you want, but all you are doing is furthering a pointless debate full of half-baked opinions based on an inadequate history of watching VODs, limited understanding of the game, and limited understanding of how progamers actually think and play.
Sooner or later somebody like ArvickHero who actually knows what he is talking about is going to come along and smack everyone.
Don't get butthurt now.
You're a troll. You literally came into this thread just to insult people who don't agree with you and then give singing praise to make yourself look like less of a tool. The lowest quality of posting. Atleast Arvick and I can have a conversation and debate about it, all you do is make shitty blanket statements and tell people not to get "butthurt." 4chan incarnate.
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10387 Posts
On February 21 2011 06:44 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2011 05:32 ArvickHero wrote:
Alright, lets not get ahead of ourselves with what Flash invented. The Mass Tank was Midas's thing, and Bachanic Pushes predate Flash. As far as I know, Flash invented the MnM off-timing push for TvZ, the Goliath +1 armor timing push, the anit-carrier build and the tank-heavier Bachanic push in TvP (haven't seen that one before) and popularized the fast upgrades turtle play in TvP. Flash brought about a lot of changes, so lets not discredit him either. It's like how people credit fantasy with the whole mech revolution when Upmagic was making those builds demonstrably before him. There's specific credit to be had in taking an underused build and turning it into a complete metagame shift. Show nested quote +Forgot to credit Flash for the Strong FD lol, but what do you mean by "12nex bunker rush to a different extreme"? I think bunker rush->vulture was done before Flash, not sure though. Same as above -- it had obviously been done before to some degree, but fine tuning and executing it the best presents innovation.
Yea, but it was Fantasy and Midas who used it extensively before Flash, so there's no way you can't really credit the Mass Tanks transition to Flash. And I'm still not sure what you mean by that Bunker Rush to a different extreme (I think I'll check some old VODs if they still are up lol). Everything else listed Flash deserves proper credit for.
Show nested quote +I guess it just comes down to opinion then, whether or not Bisu could rival Flash in terms of "peak play". I say that because he's shown so many holy god moments, like the famous mine defense against Flash, his multitasking defense against Baby on PR, his multi-location harassment ability, the ability to strike at perfect timings and defeat build order losses (in PvP), and the ability to comeback in disadvantaged situations w/ the perfect decisions (see vPure on PR, vGreat on Icarus for a couple of examples). In this regard, its subjective I guess so we can agree to disagree. I understand where you're coming from, and feel free to just say "I disagree" after this, but "famous defense," "multitasking," "multi-location harass," and by far most specifically coming back from build order losses (or more specifically, bad situations) with perfectly timed attacks, ESPECIALLY in the mirror (TvT) -- doesn't this all sound like Flash last year? I mean you mentioned 2 specific games which I totally remember. Those are the games that make me understand and agree with Bisu fans sometimes, but Flash has literally DOZENS of those amazing comebacks against all races. I know it's subjective, which is why I put that little clause at the beginning, but Flash seems to be everything you praise Bisu for taken to a greater extreme. The one thing I could faulter on is "multi-tasking," because that's really hard to quantify and point out sometimes, but everything else seems like what WON Flash his titles.
Again, I never said that Bisu was better than Flash, but he could rival him at his "peak play". Yes, Flash is a consistent beast, and he's shown off all those amazing skills over more games, but its because he's so damn consistent, as opposed to Bisu. And I wouldn't necessarily say to a greater extreme, but Flash definitely deserves his credit for his godly skills. I still maintain that, if these players were at their peaks playing against each other, Bisu would rival Flash (not necessarily "beat", but it'd be a hell of a close game)
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Well I wouldn't say rival. Flash's peak TvP is undeniably better than Bisu's peak PvT, but that's just because of how they specialize in matchups in an odd way.
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On June 22 2010 10:25 DracoVolantus wrote:
short quiz:
player that can can win games only with scouting and proper macroing :>
that was when i did foresee that BISU IS BACK. later in same thread i wanted to put him #2 ^_^
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A players greatness is all relative to the times : ]
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On February 21 2011 06:44 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2011 05:42 LunarC wrote:
I think it's clear at this point that most of the people in this thread have absolutely no idea what they are talking about and are not bothered to do a little research or speak from adequate experience.
Ignore this post if you want, but all you are doing is furthering a pointless debate full of half-baked opinions based on an inadequate history of watching VODs, limited understanding of the game, and limited understanding of how progamers actually think and play.
Sooner or later somebody like ArvickHero who actually knows what he is talking about is going to come along and smack everyone.
Don't get butthurt now. You're a troll. You literally came into this thread just to insult people who don't agree with you and then give singing praise to make yourself look like less of a tool. The lowest quality of posting. Atleast Arvick and I can have a conversation and debate about it, all you do is make shitty blanket statements and tell people not to get "butthurt." 4chan incarnate.
TwoToneTerran, calm down. Firstly, the OP is no longer relevant because it's using old data. Also, sorry for tending to not post walls of text. I usually try to keep what I say succinct. Hence, I make statements like "Bisu's playstyle feels fragile when compared to Flash's playstyle, but I think that at Bisu's peak, his dominance could rival that of Flash." Here's the important bit: Bisu is not as consistent of a player as Flash is. That's due to the nature of his playstyle, his own nature as a player, and the nature of his race.
This is my opinion, and I did not dismiss anyone else's opinion in the process. I think my opinion was valid, and it was founded upon understanding what "peak play" is, which you didn't seem to understand. If you cannot understand what is meant by "peak play" and dismiss it as being a "blanket term", you would naturally spurn an opinion based on the concept. I found that to be an ass-backwards reason for dismissing someone's opinion.
When I mentioned Arvick, I was merely giving an example of someone that I felt knew enough about what he was talking about to give a good opinion. I could have mentioned you instead, but I'm human and your reason for dismissing what I said irked me, so I didn't mention your name.
Also, threads that are founded upon hating on a particular player is just bait for thoughtless posting, which is what I was talking about when I said what I said. You yourself seem to be well-informed, so I didn't mean to insult you personally. It's just that bumping this thread just attracts more and more inane comments from uninformed people.
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On February 20 2011 18:13 l0st_romantic wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2011 17:44 Lightwip wrote:On February 20 2011 15:53 l0st_romantic wrote:On February 20 2011 15:24 overt wrote:On February 20 2011 11:23 l0st_romantic wrote:On February 20 2011 04:47 renzy wrote:
All of you saying Bisu is going to drop 80 ELO points by May, you just wait. Bisu is going to return to what he was during the Golden Age of Protoss and go on a rampage and rape everyone. GO BISU! Won't happen. I think the next season of maps will be a lot more balanced, and reward late-game oriented, defensive play. This would be better for the development of BW strategy. Just wanted to say you're kind of spewing Bisu hate. While it's certainly possible that with the new maps Bisu will go down drastically in ELO I can calmly say that I don't think it's all that likely. "Imba maps" don't suddenly allow a player to catch fire and play like a freaking god. Bisu passed Jaedong in ELO. Granted, JD was slumping but still that's pretty huge. He's practically carrying SKT on his back in Winner's League picking up multiple kills in every game, sitting at the top of the list of most all-kills in SWL. Do you honestly think this is all because of "imba" maps? Bisu has been looking strong in most of his games and honestly I think he could take Flash in a bo5 right now. Sure, I'd still favor Flash but I think Bisu could definitely eek out a win over him. I hope that, after the new maps are released, if Bisu continues to play at such a high level you'll keep your word and rework your OP. Tears of the Moon (forces P to adopt 1 base strategies) is also good. Your other posts are just listing maps where Flash did well and/or Bisu did not do well. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6337366You love to discredit Bisu talking about how he is only good on certain maps. Yet pre-slump, he was by far the best player on the most balanced map by stats, and he is more capable of overcoming imba than you give him credit for. Which maps would you even say are protoss favored? Aztec, the map that Bisu stomps on zergs on with 50/50 odds on the map(partially due to the presence of 2 top protoss and 1 declining top zerg)? Circuit breaker? Icarus, with no good P odds? Benzene, whose ZvP only slightly favors P(in large part due to the fact that JD doesn't play on the map while Bisu does)? Bloody Ridge, where protoss gets 2 atrocious MUs? La Mancha, which is exactly the same? Honestly, EotS and Aztec are the only 2 good P maps among a sea of non-P maps. I think you just want maps that give terrans/Flash a massive boost and make things insanely difficult for protoss/Bisu. Lightwip, it's not about Protoss vs. Terran vs. Zerg. That's an artificial distinction. I would argue the biggest distinction between players is how they spend their time practicing. Do they spend it coming up with new strategies and theorizing on a proactive basis, or simply mass-gaming and taking other people's BOs? I'm sure it's a mix of both, but you and I can both agree that amongst progamers, there is definitely a distinction amongst this continuum. Stork vs. Bisu is a classic example; a better one would be Flash vs. Fantasy or Savior vs. Jaedong. It's not about finding maps which are better for one race. It's about finding maps which suit a style of player. Does that make sense?
Yet the examples you give of maps that "advance BW strategy" (paraphrased) are disproportionately unfavorable for Protoss, and the one map you choose to highlight was infamous as one of the worst Protoss graveyards. This is in the midst of a thread created to attack a specific Protoss player. One in which, the OP happened to be egregiously wrong and yet you keep blundering on, hoping that that will retroactively cover up the egg on your face. All these factors don't give you the greatest credibility when you claim "it's not about P vs. T vs. Z, it's about the types of players", or whatever else.
If you want to see one base play so much, an abnormally high (rather than low, as in ToTM) number of mineral patches in the main should do it. Maybe even an extra gas, a la Desperado. If you want to see lots of lategame, defense-oriented play, take away the threat of early harass by making a ridiculously long push distance. How about the novel concept of every base besides the main, nat, and maybe a mineral only being an island expansion? (Obviously speaking of 2-player maps, as a 4-player map that technically fit this description wouldn't be that out of the ordinary.) Or a map with a wide, featureless, unbuildable center that takes up over half the total map area, with all expansions clustered around the edges? All of these features would affect the metagame, build orders, and encourage new strategies, definitely more so than the innovative genius that is only having seven mineral patches in the main. But you're welcome to try and argue that they wouldn't, which I suspect you will, because you can already feel that they won't produce the matchup statistics you want. Regardless of your arguing till you're blue in the face that you don't care about such things.
Edit: No, I'm not actually seriously clamoring for these types of maps, I recognize the unfairness and imbalances. Though, if they're going to give us another Roadrunner, I'd ask a map with an abnormally large main with an unbuildable ring about the edge as compensation. 
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On February 21 2011 11:35 LunarC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2011 06:44 TwoToneTerran wrote:On February 21 2011 05:42 LunarC wrote:
I think it's clear at this point that most of the people in this thread have absolutely no idea what they are talking about and are not bothered to do a little research or speak from adequate experience.
Ignore this post if you want, but all you are doing is furthering a pointless debate full of half-baked opinions based on an inadequate history of watching VODs, limited understanding of the game, and limited understanding of how progamers actually think and play.
Sooner or later somebody like ArvickHero who actually knows what he is talking about is going to come along and smack everyone.
Don't get butthurt now. You're a troll. You literally came into this thread just to insult people who don't agree with you and then give singing praise to make yourself look like less of a tool. The lowest quality of posting. Atleast Arvick and I can have a conversation and debate about it, all you do is make shitty blanket statements and tell people not to get "butthurt." 4chan incarnate. TwoToneTerran, calm down. Firstly, the OP is no longer relevant because it's using old data. Also, sorry for tending to not post walls of text. I usually try to keep what I say succinct. Hence, I make statements like "Bisu's playstyle feels fragile when compared to Flash's playstyle, but I think that at Bisu's peak, his dominance could rival that of Flash." Here's the important bit: Bisu is not as consistent of a player as Flash is. That's due to the nature of his playstyle, his own nature as a player, and the nature of his race. This is my opinion, and I did not dismiss anyone else's opinion in the process. I think my opinion was valid, and it was founded upon understanding what "peak play" is, which you didn't seem to understand. If you cannot understand what is meant by "peak play" and dismiss it as being a "blanket term", you would naturally spurn an opinion based on the concept. I found that to be an ass-backwards reason for dismissing someone's opinion. When I mentioned Arvick, I was merely giving an example of someone that I felt knew enough about what he was talking about to give a good opinion. I could have mentioned you instead, but I'm human and your reason for dismissing what I said irked me, so I didn't mention your name. Also, threads that are founded upon hating on a particular player is just bait for thoughtless posting, which is what I was talking about when I said what I said. You yourself seem to be well-informed, so I didn't mean to insult you personally. It's just that bumping this thread just attracts more and more inane comments from uninformed people.
If you have an opinion, then state it respectfully and thoughtfully. Don't open your post with an unambiguous insult and then point to your champion to "come along and smack everyone." There's no point in opening a post the way you did and then champion someone like they're the only right one in a very subjective conversation. You can't tell me your post added anything to the thread, can you? I mean I'm cool with complimenting arvick, he's a cool dude, but not at the expense of insulting, in your own words, everyone in the process.
I'm just saying, that post of yours was the exact same bad posting you're decrying yourself.
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So how 'bout that MVP?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6mXk4.jpg)
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5003 Posts
proleague awards are pretty minor actually, wait for player of the year awards before going rampant.
oh wait bisu still haven't gotten past the RO8 in a league yet -_-
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On August 05 2011 11:32 Rainmaker5 wrote:So how 'bout that MVP?
Wow that's one good looking MVP and soon to be player of the year. Damn Bisu Damn. Who's hot? Bisu's hot!
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On August 05 2011 11:43 renzy wrote:Wow that's one good looking MVP and soon to be player of the year. Damn Bisu Damn. Who's hot? Bisu's hot!
Sorry, but no way Bisu is ever getting player of the year when he can't make it past RO8 in any individual leagues.
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He hasn't made it past a Ro16 since early 2009.
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On August 05 2011 11:36 Milkis wrote:
proleague awards are pretty minor actually, wait for player of the year awards before going rampant.
oh wait bisu still haven't gotten past the RO8 in a league yet -_-
still grasping at straws, trying to justify your hate for bisu with a diminishing supply of faults
anti-bisu of the gaps imo.
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I like the way ArvickHero quotes that Bisu game against Pure on PR when that game had Bisu end up in said disadvantageous position by getting out multitasked by Pure.
Yeah, lol.
[/shameless antifan]
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EPT
