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eXp)LasGo
Czech Republic44 Posts
we have just finished program to modify shortcuts(hotkeys) keys in broodwar: in this way like u set u want 'A' key for Drone instead of 'D'. works surely with B-net. it patches file patch_rt.mpq that contains language localization data.. ![[image loading]](http://www.lasgo.wz.cz/images/keycraft.JPG) note works only for ENG BW version we want w8 with publication till it is not considered as hack.. | ||
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Shmi
Sweden139 Posts
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Ashur
Czech Republic646 Posts
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LazySCV
United States2942 Posts
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Hautamaki
Canada1311 Posts
I wish you the best of luck though Lasgo, I think it would be great if it became universally standard. | ||
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Ashur
Czech Republic646 Posts
I will read licence to BNet now... | ||
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
On April 27 2004 02:54 LaZyScV wrote: Ooh.. I want that!  It's considered cheating by Blizzard. Just about everything is considered cheating by Blizzard. Not that they matter... I just wonder if BWScanner will pick up on this? I don't see how it would, but you never know. Maybe now Protoss players won't have to go left-hand mouse. | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
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Ashur
Czech Republic646 Posts
On the other side, due to relation to LAN, it is working ONLY on english version of BW. It will be NOT working on German version (already ap called DoxStar) or any other. But Koreans have already their own, or they are using StarKey ![[image loading]](http://www.progamers.cz/images/Starcraft/2003-4-30/image_4546.gif) | ||
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Yuljan
2196 Posts
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0x64
Finland4552 Posts
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
As for my personal opinion, I DO think this is a 3rd party program..how could you not? It's editing the game files to let you play an easier and different way than it should be played. I think it's gay, and anyone who would use something like it to be a fag. | ||
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CaRn1FeX
Germany203 Posts
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Ashur
Czech Republic646 Posts
It is also supported and created by Blizzard in W3,FT... I am not speculating about permission at WCG, i really do not care about WCG, if they ban it or not, i dont care. It is for everyday usage over BN, to help people with small hands (Hautamaki or people that do not want to learn and search where that damned hotkey "P" lies. Thing about this, plz. | ||
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rplant
United States1178 Posts
Since they won't, we have to depend on people like Lasgo and Ashur to develop stuff like this for us.  <3Looks like a great start. Hopefully you'll make it so settings can be saved so it's easy to migrate them from pc to pc (I play bw at several). I know you could just run around with a patch_rt.mpq but those are pretty big. Btw, do the computers at wcg qualifiers have internet connections? | ||
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Yang
Lithuania231 Posts
Btw, pro's also use their own hotkeys. | ||
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Yang
Lithuania231 Posts
It is the same, just blizzard didn't make such an option. If blizzard couldn't do this for us, why we can't do it for ourselfes? | ||
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ZorAptoR
Switzerland926 Posts
btw. as everyone can change to english keys, everybody should also be abled to modify keys with the prog ?! | ||
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Chibi[OWNS]
United Kingdom10597 Posts
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booooo
Singapore372 Posts
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jacen
Austria3644 Posts
On April 27 2004 04:48 booooo wrote: anyone know if they allow koreans to use customized keyboard like that starkey keyboard picture shown above? blizzard has NO WAY to detect starkey. afaik the top buttons are onlyhardwired version of 2 other keys. so its not detectable. on the other hand, u could try modifying ur keyboard drivers so that u switch the buttons as u like, and create profiles which are automatically loaded on bw startup. but i think thats a rather complicated sollution for that problem @ topic: lasgo: keep up the good work this prog sounds good. | ||
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Eye-Loser
United States172 Posts
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Frits
11782 Posts
eye-loser... the only ppl who actually need bwcoach to get better are newbie =] | ||
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Sirakor
Great Britain455 Posts
On April 27 2004 03:30 0x64 wrote: I wouldnt use it, but I wouldnt mind my opponent using it. same here... i dont quite see what the big deal is... anyone is able to install/use different keyboard layouts on their comp or even program their own and use that if u wanted. There surely is no problem with that, I mean how can u ban someone for being french or dutch or german or... whatever, just because they're using their native keyboard layout? Exactly, you cant. | ||
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ram
Lithuania602 Posts
players that changed keys will have an advantage at bnet, but players that didn't, will have a big advantage at tourneys, because players that changed keys will be used to their bindings and will f*ck up... I won't change my keys, because i want to go to korea and beat boxer at ogn final -______-; but too sad ima z... | ||
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Casper...
Liberia4948 Posts
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Casper...
Liberia4948 Posts
but i see nothing wrong with using a program which simply reconfigures the keyboard layout | ||
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Countdown
1217 Posts
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Sirakor
Great Britain455 Posts
On April 27 2004 06:32 Countdown wrote: I won't use it. Play the game it was meant to be played. u suggesting that people should be forced to play the game with an english keyboard layout even though they might eg be used to having a dutch one? simply changing the keyboard layout in the regional settings of your OS will 'remap' keys, ie hotkeys will be the same, but the key is in a different place. That is perfectly legitimate, so I dont see why another way of remapping it would make any difference whatsoever. Plus... if after 6yrs anyone is still too retarded to find and press a specific key on their keyboard, then they will suck at BW, no matter how many keys they remap... | ||
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
I'd use that program for sure. | ||
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GroT
Belgium3003 Posts
everyone can benefit from maphack too changing your keys make the game less challenging and gives you an unfair advantage over someone who doesn't, that's why it's a cheat according to me you could start argueing that having a better mouse than your opponent gives you an unfair advantage over him too, but that's just lacking of common sense | ||
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
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FreeZEternal
Korea (South)3396 Posts
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orzhady
Sweden180 Posts
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SojT
United States789 Posts
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chicken`
Germany3478 Posts
just make a program with which u can only change that hotkey ^^;; | ||
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FreeZEternal
Korea (South)3396 Posts
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Oxygen
Canada3581 Posts
I think the BW community is SO obsessed with everything being FAIR (OMG YOU MAPHACKED YOU FUCKING HACKER DIE!! - not that I maphack, I think it's lame) that they're not even having fun and just playing the game. I don't even care if my opponent hacks. Seriously, go ahead and maphack, change your hotkeys, and whatever else you can do. I really, honestly don't care. BW is getting so amazingly paranoid over the fact that people might have an ADVANTAGE!!! OMG PLZ SAY NO!!!! HIS PROBE HOTKEY IS S INSTEAD OF P?!?!? HACK!!! HACK!! HACK!!! The main goal right now in BW (at least, from what I see) is not to have fun, try new strats (that's kind of hard though -_-) and get better, but to catch hackers, be sure you're not being hacked against, and make sure as hell your opponent doesn't have an advantage of some kind over you. | ||
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Basic!
United States218 Posts
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~da_pixxel
Slovakia65 Posts
it's a third party until it's not made by blizzard itself or with their official blessing therefore blizzard will not be arguing with us whether it is a hack or not (blizz say it is), but telling blizzard to make the players able to change their keys in w3 style might bring success. ..and then they could possibly include all those stuff that w3 has taken from bw (auto-cloning, multiple buildings @ 1 hotkey, etc..) but tell blizzard something.. | ||
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
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Oxygen
Canada3581 Posts
..and then they could possibly include all those stuff that w3 has taken from bw (auto-cloning, multiple buildings @ 1 hotkey, etc..) Waaaaaaaaait. You want that to be implemented into BW? Are you insane? EDIT: Of course it's a third party program. Consider it a hack. I'm just saying, keep it all in perspective. | ||
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NoNameLoser
United States1508 Posts
And for all those who still think blizzard didnt mean it in the game play = unfair, blizzard fired the team that created SC a few years ago, they dont even give a fuck and IMO BW balance is just pure luck or some genious' work who we never heard about, nothing to do with blizzard. | ||
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Radiohead
Norway201 Posts
it's okay to use it in warcraft because that game isnt based on skills anyway. Hand technique is an important part of bw, and this program takes it away =[ i consider it a cheat. | ||
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Sirakor
Great Britain455 Posts
On April 27 2004 07:17 Basic! wrote: i'd use it more for like changing "z" for zealot cause it gets kinda hard when you're using 5-9 gates, z just seems so far causing me to misclick :[ install a german keyboard layout. apart from special ascii chars, all chars are in the same place except X <-> Y, which should make ur zeal building much easier. In Windope you can use Shift+alt to switch between keyboard layouts u have currently installed. As for the rest of you... does anyone actually read my posts? Whoever has a problem with programs such as keycraft, please answer the following questions: 1. would using different regional settings on your comp (such as timezone and keyboard settings) be cheating? (ROFLMAO to whoever answers this with yes...) 2. if u said 'no' to 1., why the fuck would anyone be cheating who uses a program that does exactly the same thing as the regional options menue in ur OS does? 3. do you really think anyone who has been unable to learn some hotkeys and press the right key during the last SIX years has any chance of ever becoming good at this game? 4. do you think ppl who have played this game for a long time and gotten used to their hotkeys would go through the trouble of learning a new system? Unless u can provide some sensible answers to these, stfu and go whine somewhere else... | ||
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luminosity_
Canada378 Posts
"we want w8 with publication till it is not considered as hack.." Spends so much time in making the program, but then waits for community input before releasing it.  | ||
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Sadist
United States7225 Posts
On April 27 2004 07:58 Radiohead wrote: this program destroys the technical aspect of bw :\\ it's okay to use it in warcraft because that game isnt based on skills anyway. Hand technique is an important part of bw, and this program takes it away =[ i consider it a cheat. hand technique, lol. Letting someone change keys is no problem, if they use it online and cant use it at a lan big deal, sucks for them they'll be used to their modified hotkeys and will struggle to get used to their original ones. Its not cheating ;\ so long as its the exact same keys just in different places. Anyone who says it gives someone an unfair advantage online is retarded, so you have to reach over to touch the P key big deal. Odds are people who have been playing long enough and are good enough wont bother using this, all this does is help newbies out who dislike the hotkey layout, and if they go to a LAN and cant use it, who cares | ||
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Sadist
United States7225 Posts
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Excalibur_Z
United States12235 Posts
That said, I do think this is a "hostile" third-party program, and the reason is this. It is not readily accessible to everyone. In all the examples people have given, such as changing action keys in Quake, modifying hotkeys in War3, that's all fine because it can be done with the game. Changing action keys in Quake is built right into the interface, and modifying hotkeys in War3 is done by changing a text file which Blizzard has said they support. However until something this simple is added to Starcraft, it's not supported by Blizzard, and it remains a third-party program. While I don't really have a problem with it as long as everyone is playing on equal footing, don't be surprised if your account is deleted while using this program. | ||
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Sirakor
Great Britain455 Posts
On April 27 2004 08:08 Sadist wrote: oh and i always wondered, since apparently there are versions of starcraft in different languages, or like keyboards in different languages or something, at wcg do you just bring all your drivers or something and install all your stuff? or if there are no lets say "German" versions of BW in the german language, would you have to play with the english keys at wcg in korea? no u dont. players are allowed to bring their native keyboards and use their native keyboard layout. | ||
Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
On April 27 2004 06:37 Sirakor wrote: u suggesting that people should be forced to play the game with an english keyboard layout even though they might eg be used to having a dutch one? simply changing the keyboard layout in the regional settings of your OS will 'remap' keys, ie hotkeys will be the same, but the key is in a different place. That is perfectly legitimate, so I dont see why another way of remapping it would make any difference whatsoever. Plus... if after 6yrs anyone is still too retarded to find and press a specific key on their keyboard, then they will suck at BW, no matter how many keys they remap... Stop using Holland as an example. We use internation keyboards and English BW :p Use Germany instead, they have everything synchronized (which sucks donkeydick). When you have a German in your f list it will say: "Ihr freund xxxxx hat battle.net verlassen" or whatever lolz | ||
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Resaca
Spain29 Posts
keys,etc,all differents ,why i cant have my own keys? It isnt hack it only is other help how MX logitech mouses ,keyboard for BW,icemat ,etc... If i go to WCG ,then i need install spanish BW ,but if i play with my keys i only need install file patch_rt.mpq (1Mb) & local.dll (48KB) ,what is the problem? Who know it? . Lasgo can to make tutorial about how play with own keys in lan tournaments in program help. Then lasgo u can to make keycraft for all languages ,i think it is very easy . With program WinMPQ.exe u can extract all files stat_txt.tbl ID 0 =Eng ID 1034 = Spanish ID 1031 = Germany ID 1036 = French ID 1040 = Italian ID 1041 = Portugal Then u have all information for make in all languages ,if u want help i can to make it for spanish keys i think i have all keys pos in memory then in file it is = only add and subtract , it if u extract file stat_txt.tbl of patch_rt.mpq and modify it i dont know how work u program but think do it. | ||
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Sirakor
Great Britain455 Posts
french: ![[image loading]](http://www.goucher.edu/library/decker/helpfiles/images/FrenchKeyLower.jpg) slovenian: ![[image loading]](http://www.hermessoft.com/newproject/keyboards/kbd/sloveni1.gif) and many more... or write ur own... thats perfectly legit, does not change ANYTHING within sc at all... just like using a different mouse or a bigger screen. hey thats a cool idea... I want everyone to be banned for cheating who has a bigger screen than me. Having a bigger screen makes micro easier coz units are bigger, so thats an unfair advantage. Ban them all! | ||
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ObsoleteLogic
United States3676 Posts
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Arbiter[frolix]
United Kingdom2674 Posts
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
On April 27 2004 06:41 GroT wrote: it's not cheating cause everyone can benefit from it? everyone can benefit from maphack too changing your keys make the game less challenging and gives you an unfair advantage over someone who doesn't, that's why it's a cheat according to me you could start argueing that having a better mouse than your opponent gives you an unfair advantage over him too, but that's just lacking of common sense Well, if you were going to make that argument work, you would first have to prove that all races are even on hotkey placement, which they most certainly are not. Protoss has a huge disadvantage with P for pylon and probe being on the far right side of the keyboard (English KB, anyway). Terran has to reach across the board to hit I for mines, Zerg has to reach over for O. Not to mention 7-0 hotkeys are a bitch to hit when you're trying to quickly macro. Note the layout of the StarKey board's numbers =\ Far more ergonomic. Customizing your keyboard settings is no different than customizing your mouse or display settings =\ You cannot effectively argue that it is, because there is nothing to found the argument. | ||
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NerO
United States2071 Posts
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BumpOnaLog
Canada318 Posts
hotkey from s to c. omg i need 12 hydras 5ssh 6ssh 7ssh 8ssh 9ssh woot mass scourge!!! | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2609 Posts
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Nihil_isT
Czech Republic125 Posts
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ram
Lithuania602 Posts
On April 27 2004 09:02 BumpOnaLog wrote: If this is allowed in lans, i would change the damn scourge production hotkey from s to c. omg i need 12 hydras 5ssh 6ssh 7ssh 8ssh 9ssh woot mass scourge!!! haha that's so common: when im waiting for a single larva from my 1 of 2 hats in ZvZ to build two lings for quick and fatal defense. press sss several times because im nervous and boom larva comes out and i get two scourge instead! yeeei i can kill his ovie and loose drones -__-; big deal... | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2609 Posts
On April 27 2004 09:21 Nihil_isT wrote: I would consider hack only the program where you could programme single button to do multiple actions....I don't mind only changing hotkeys... It's basically the same thing. I don't remember anything in the EULA specifing how you could and could not change your keys. Oh, and btw I just realised that it's not a 3rd party program because it doesn't work in conjuction with SC, it just recodes one of it's files. Windows can do exactly the same thing, and I think we can all agree that Blizzard allows *that*. And I don't see how this would affect a LAN. If your paying and they don't let you play just sue their ass and you'll get at least as much as the prize money anway. | ||
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Honk2000
Germany698 Posts
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Resaca
Spain29 Posts
Ilegal Hacks is only programs for cheat ,and configure u own keys no is cheat. BW is strategy game ,keys no affect strategy in game then no cheat . | ||
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jacen
Austria3644 Posts
On April 27 2004 08:08 Sadist wrote: or if there are no lets say "German" versions of BW in the german language, would you have to play with the english keys at wcg in korea? thats whats happening the last years if u played some game in your foreign version, noone at wcg gave a shit. only english/international versions there (thats the reason y wcg attendes have to be older than 16 to compete in cs and ut) On April 27 2004 08:11 Sirakor wrote: no u dont. players are allowed to bring their native keyboards and use their native keyboard layout. sure u can, but u have to press p for a probe in bw instead of s for "sonde" in the german version. a friend of mine was in that position, it suck that u cant remap ur keyboard in that situation | ||
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AnOther
565 Posts
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jacen
Austria3644 Posts
On April 27 2004 09:25 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Oh, and btw I just realised that it's not a 3rd party program because it doesn't work in conjuction with SC, it just recodes one of it's files. Windows can do exactly the same thing, and I think we can all agree that Blizzard allows *that*. a program is considered 3rd party if it affects the basic game files in ANY WAY. so if u take the editor and would code the changes for your own, the editor would be considered as a 3rd party program, sind u ARE NOT ALLOWED to alter the game code on the hd OR the memors, once its loaded. even mpq browsers are 3rd party programs, but they cant be detected unless u change something. replay browsers and other replay related stuff arent 3rd party, since replays are NOT basic game files (since they are only files generated by the game itself). technically lasgos observer pack is a 3rd party program. but let me tell u 1 thing I REALLY DONT CARE ABOUT THAT DAMN "IS IT HACK OR NOT?" DISCUSSION! thats so childish .... really. tl.net is really grate, but even here some ppl think progaming is their destiny (in fact, none of the ppl whining about it would ever win the slighest money prize in bw :/ ) | ||
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Yang
Lithuania231 Posts
In vod i remember showing xellos fast hand. It was TvZ and he never bring hand to 'm' hotkey.. btw, not everyone plays six years bw, so such arguments, as 'if u have not learned hotkeys six years... ' makes no sense.. | ||
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T_T
Vatican City State593 Posts
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jacen
Austria3644 Posts
On April 27 2004 10:37 T_T wrote: he probably uses his thumb. boxer does it this way. what finger did u use for m? lift the right hand off the mouse and do it with it? -_- i also use the thumb for m ... | ||
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MiniRoman
Canada3953 Posts
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GroT
Belgium3003 Posts
On April 27 2004 08:38 HnR)Louder wrote: Well, if you were going to make that argument work, you would first have to prove that all races are even on hotkey placement, which they most certainly are not. Protoss has a huge disadvantage with P for pylon and probe being on the far right side of the keyboard (English KB, anyway). Terran has to reach across the board to hit I for mines, Zerg has to reach over for O. Not to mention 7-0 hotkeys are a bitch to hit when you're trying to quickly macro. Note the layout of the StarKey board's numbers =\ Far more ergonomic. Customizing your keyboard settings is no different than customizing your mouse or display settings =\ You cannot effectively argue that it is, because there is nothing to found the argument. you make a very solid case, well done | ||
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
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ChOGoSu
Macedonia31 Posts
Gj guys | ||
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ZorAptoR
Switzerland926 Posts
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
On April 27 2004 10:56 ZorAptoR wrote: just make a poll here on tl.net, scgamers and wgt and see what the community decides, cause in the end lan tourneys adapt their rules to the common gaming styles... except wcg | ||
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chicken`
Germany3478 Posts
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Taguchi
Greece1575 Posts
id probably not use it because of needing to adjust to something new but id not mind it being used by an opponent | ||
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Piccolo
Chile621 Posts
- It is hack than Elky play with sunglasses? - It is hack if i change my keys in SC?? OF CORSE NOT! Let's see... if the game doesn't have that option... but you find a config.ini that you can edit... C'MON! everybody would edit that file to make the game more confortable. I wouldnt use it, becouse i'm already used to the original keys... but i don't have any problem if some oponent like to use it. I like to configure my own controls for almost every game... SF, MK, KOF, and belive me... if i could change the keys years ago when i was starting to play sc... i would done it. I don't fucking care if it's a 3rd party program, don't give the oponent any advantage, only comodity. I'm pretty confortable with the original keys... so i don't mind if you use it or not. Also, i think it's great and a big option that i would like it to have when i started to play... Sorry for my sorry english... ^^ | ||
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cjh
Canada857 Posts
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rplant
United States1178 Posts
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Ashur
Czech Republic646 Posts
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Ne[M]esiS
Peru3 Posts
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
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NuclearAntelope
United States1369 Posts
![[image loading]](http://teambelgium.isgsa.org/boxerkeyboard.jpg) boxer never really misses a key ever, because he ripped out the non sc ones. lets just call that a cheat also because he has a lesser chance of hitting the wrong key than PlayerX huh? | ||
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Yang
Lithuania231 Posts
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radiaL
Andorra2690 Posts
Even though I am against modifying anything about StarCraft,I have to admit the program looks great Lasgo, you should let that guy work on all your interfaces! | ||
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pyogenes
Brazil1401 Posts
On April 27 2004 03:32 hasuwar wrote: Here's how I look at this: Do you think they'd let you take a program into WCG to modify the game so you could play in some special way so you only have to press 2 keys to do everything? No. As for my personal opinion, I DO think this is a 3rd party program..how could you not? It's editing the game files to let you play an easier and different way than it should be played. I think it's gay, and anyone who would use something like it to be a fag. its not pressing only 2 keys to do everything its changing the keys you already press to another key. i wouldnt mind if my opponent used this. i know id be using it too, ( i use custom keys in war3) i think alot of micro/macro will improve and bring skill level hgiher if this is released. | ||
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Refrain[FriZ]
Canada4337 Posts
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
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0_0
United States2090 Posts
Is it fair if someone has contacts that give you better than 20/20 vision? Is it fair if elky wears his sunglasses to shade out the glare of the screen? Is it fair if someone has a energy drink before a tournament(increase reflexes etc?) Is it fair if you're playing at your house in a good/nice/cool environment while someone else is playing at a stuffy pc bang surrounded by people, and cramped? Hell no, its life, get a fuckin grip, and stop bitching about everything that could improve or change bw. lol | ||
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0x64
Finland4552 Posts
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][-][eretic
Canada395 Posts
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
On April 27 2004 14:24 0_0 wrote: Of course its not a hack. I wouldn't use it because it'd take too much time to get used to and I play sc only for fun, but I'd understand other people wanting to get really good at sc using it. People who say its unfair: Is it fair if someone has contacts that give you better than 20/20 vision? it's not 3rd party software modifying the game Is it fair if elky wears his sunglasses to shade out the glare of the screen? it's not 3rd party software modifying the game Is it fair if someone has a energy drink before a tournament(increase reflexes etc?) it's not 3rd party software modifying the game Is it fair if you're playing at your house in a good/nice/cool environment while someone else is playing at a stuffy pc bang surrounded by people, and cramped? it's not 3rd party software modifying the game | ||
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
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BroOd
Austin10831 Posts
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
when you choose your mouse, your keyboard, your monitor, etc., those are things you have to do to play sc. you must have some, and you have options. blizzard doesnt intend sc to be played on one mouse or one keyboard. but i think it's pretty obvious that hacks are different. you don't have to choose some hacks to play sc. you can play sc without hacks. coincidentally, this is exactly how blizzard intends it. | ||
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DJEtterStyle
United States2766 Posts
On April 27 2004 16:03 hasuwar wrote: Glad I refreshed the thread first..I was going to write exactly what Stimey just wrote. All of you idiots that are referring to keyboards and mouses and regional settings are IDIOTS. THOSE ARE NOT EDITING FILES FOR STARCRAFT, STFU So buying a special keyboard that places all the SC keys in the places I like best is ok, but remapping my keyboard to accomplish the same thing is 100% wrong? Quite the double standard. | ||
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Ashur
Czech Republic646 Posts
Hack = Program, that changes memory data [fe. reveals map] = advantage 3rd party program = Program, that modifies data DURNING connection between games or BNet. Yes, this application is giving a little bit advantage to nonskilled players. Blizzard is suggesting everything a hack, what it not its own creation.. In fact, if we release it, it is not our point of being that it will be used on any competition or not, you cannot say, you only guess (i think so too, no matter . This application is here to help all the people to play better, to improve themselves in BW and have more fun from gaming.Customizing keys are in all games, take a look to history, like ZX Spectrum? Every game used to have ::DEFINE KEYS:: Think about this. | ||
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x[ReaPeR]x
United States3447 Posts
I would possibly use it but I cannot be certain of tournament endorsement so I'm probably not going to. This program should be released, many people would have fun with it. | ||
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
OHHHH wait! This just in! If you hardcode maphack into the exe, it's legit! since a hack is only something that modifies the game while running! Letting other players have an advantage over me is not letting me have more fun, kinda like..you guessed it, letting someone maphack vs me, getting an advantage, is no fun either, no matter how marginal | ||
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DJEtterStyle
United States2766 Posts
On April 27 2004 17:32 hasuwar wrote: Letting other players have an advantage over me is not letting me have more fun, kinda like..you guessed it, letting someone maphack vs me, getting an advantage, is no fun either, no matter how marginal Then we'd better disallow the use of any hardware (gamepads or keyboards) that help people gain an advantage over you. That means, of course, that there should be a standardized SC keyboard, probably the Korean version, that every SC player will have to use because, damn it, my German keyboard has P over on the left, so I have an advantage over your silly American keyboard. This tool, because it will be available to EVERYONE for FREE, will let everyone have the same advantage that the people who invest money into game-enhancing hardware already have. How can that possibly be a bad thing? | ||
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TeCh)keke
Canada159 Posts
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
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DJEtterStyle
United States2766 Posts
On April 27 2004 17:58 hasuwar wrote: Djetter, you are such an idiot. Go read some other posts.. USING A DIFFERENT KEYBOARD IS NOT EDITING THE FILES. STOP POSTING. Double standards. The method that Lasgo uses to attain INCREASED EQUALITY doesn't matter. Is it any different if I edit Windows files to modify my keys? Or if I buy a keyboard to place the keys where I want without modifying anything? The result in Brood War will be 100% identical. You're just dogmatically reciting the Blizzard anthem that any modification of the program whatsoever is a hack. Open your eyes. Is every killing murder? Or are there shades of grey? I kept personal attacks out of my posts, and I'd ask you to do the same. Also, if you don't possess the intellectual means with which to defend your "point," don't even try. | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
It's not considered a cheat, since everybody uses it (even in professional sports when u sees better shoes on football or better protections for goal keepers or better rackets in tennis or better motor engines in formula1 and many more... U're just stupid if u considers it a hack... -_- | ||
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NoNameLoser
United States1508 Posts
The point is it simplifies what can be done legitimatelly according to the terms and rest is irrelevant because there are many ways of doing it. Its like arguing that lurkers on hold are a cheat but you can always press stop continuously and achieve same result - thus if something can be done legitimatelly in one way, simplifying it doesnt make it a cheat. I wont be surprised if some smart fella throws at me a statement that all units should be controlled with one click. Yeah thats in the same boat. | ||
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Ilintar
Poland794 Posts
Go download RemapKey for WinXP, remap your keyboard layout and stop whining. This program does basically that, only in BW. I was judge during the Polish Championships held recently, and one of the members of the winning 2v2 team used a remapped keyboard. I allowed that... why should I not if I allow people with keyboard w/taken out keys? Blizzard has made KeyCraft an official part of The Frozen Throne, and it does EXACTLY that - modify hotkeys. It wasn't present from the start, but once some people made KeyCraft for W3, Blizzard implemented it. So that shows they don't believe remapping hotkeys is cheating, at least. | ||
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gunkyman
United States98 Posts
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Pob
880 Posts
On April 27 2004 17:16 Ashur wrote: Customizing keys are in all games, take a look to history, like ZX Spectrum? Every game used to have ::DEFINE KEYS:: Think about this.where the option to play starcraft with the kempston joystick though o.0 btw this program is not a hack , good job lasgo | ||
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Abang_Zealot
Indonesia866 Posts
release this now ^^ sounds pretty good. | ||
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karelen
Sweden2407 Posts
1. blizzard did the same thing for wc3. 2. you can do basically the same thing without this program ( which is a hassle ). end of discussion. those of you that dont like it, dont use it. great work guys, release asap | ||
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0wNaG3
Canada95 Posts
I been a Terran player all my life mainly because they keys are closer together and easier for me. Maybe now I can start getting better with P and Z. Please release Its people like you guys who make the sc community oh so much better. | ||
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
When you use a keyboard with a different key position configuration if you do not install its driver it will not work properly. Thus you do edit 'files'. Neither this program nor keyboard drivers modify any file in Starcraft that BLizzard does not already permit to modify. Blizzard allows the file patch_rt.mpq. This is also why Blizzard allows MOD's till today. By insulting fellow forums members you only belittle yourself. Third party programs need to modify stacraft files other than .mpq to be considered a 'hack'. Blizzard has debated for a while to disallow modificiation of this file group but has yet to make a decision on the issue. MOD creators have been making MODS 4 years so far without sanction from BLizzard. In fact ~ they sponsor several sites that host these MODS that have tampered with the same file Ashur's and Lasgo program changes. This program, in so far the function it promises, is to present day legal any way you look at it. As for the "idiots" you make mention ~ they, we, are the same people that game with you, read your posts and watch your RWA's. Entropy Aka Physician  | ||
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
Alright, I can respect mod makers. If blizzard condones that, cool. Point me to where it says that it's open season to edit the files like that. I emailed Blizzard yesterday about this kind of program, I'm still waiting for a response. As for me calling people idiots, they are. All of the people who tried to relate a faster mouse, a better mouse, a different keyboard, to a program that edits starcraft files to change hotkeys within the game are idiots | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12235 Posts
On April 27 2004 22:57 hasuwar wrote: I don't think I've ever played a game with anyone from TL.net :O Alright, I can respect mod makers. If blizzard condones that, cool. Point me to where it says that it's open season to edit the files like that. I emailed Blizzard yesterday about this kind of program, I'm still waiting for a response. As for me calling people idiots, they are. All of the people who tried to relate a faster mouse, a better mouse, a different keyboard, to a program that edits starcraft files to change hotkeys within the game are idiots You've played against me -__________-;;;;; Also it seems the circular logic which I attempted to close with my post earlier in the thread continues =[ | ||
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
 From http://www.blizzard.com/inblizz/genfaq.shtml: How does Blizzard feel about StarCraft Total Conversions, or Diablo mods? We've seen some very polished and fun conversions for our games, and have no problems with total conversions, so long as they are for personal use and do not infringe our End User License Agreement included in our games, nor the rights of any other parties including copyrights, trademarks or other rights. If you have any other legal questions regarding Blizzard Entertainment or our products, please see our Legal FAQ at http://www.blizzard.com/legalfaq.shtml There is only one way to make a MOD or total conversion ~ modifying, tampering, changing, editing the mpq group files It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak aloud and remove all doubt. I shall remain silent now my fellow gamers lest I fall in Hasuwar's same predicament. | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12235 Posts
On April 27 2004 23:09 hasuwar wrote: If I did, you don't use that name, you didn't say who you were, and we didn't play as a result of talking on tl.net Oh yeah I was using ZergTerranAbuse (partner TerranZergAbuse) and I can't remember if I introduced myself. Your partner was DarkReligion. We played out of coincidence. And we won 2-1  | ||
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Amnesty
United States2054 Posts
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
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fender-pro
Estonia208 Posts
On April 27 2004 17:58 hasuwar wrote: Djetter, you are such an idiot. Go read some other posts.. USING A DIFFERENT KEYBOARD IS NOT EDITING THE FILES. STOP POSTING. Man, he just answered on ur utterance about disadvantage u'll get if someone changes button's site, not about editing. You better read ur own posts before insulting ppl. When u r talking about considering this stuff as a 3rd party program, i can understand ur point, coz i don't know shit in it. But "getting advantage over me" is quite funny to read coz u already play with many, many guys who have set their keyboards pretty much more comfortable than ur one. And afterall, as someone already said: understanding of the game, good strats and timing r things, which do u better. | ||
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
blizzard didnt make this feature for sc. if you get used to this feature, u wont be able to use it in any offline competition. good offline players will not use it. but you will use it against them. you will press things faster than they will ever be able to press. maybe it won't matter much, but that shouldn't be for us to decide. maybe some newbie thinks map hack wouldn't matter much either, for example. the point is, you're using it because it helps your game. other people can't use it because blizz and all offline competition won't allow it so they don't want to get used to it. you using it gives you an advantage and forces opponents to use it to compete. wait i think i already posted this point. oh well i guess i needed to again. if blizzard supported this and give it publicity and included it in the next patch, it wouldn't be a hack. the sc standard is blizzard. when sc makes a new patch, everyone plays it. no one debates which version to play. there are no 1.04 or 1.03 or 1.00 leagues anymore are there? and just the same, there will be no league for people who want to use this hack, just a minority of people using it, gaining whatever insigificant advantage against whoever plays them and probably will never quite be sure how you press such difficult keys so quickly yet suck (since anyone who might ever play an offline competition will not bother fucking with software to get keys how they want). | ||
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rplant
United States1178 Posts
Using a customized patch_rt.mpq is like having a preset config.ini for CS... | ||
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
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Klogon
MURICA15980 Posts
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
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rplant
United States1178 Posts
]Lots of people don't bother changing their keys even when the game has a built in facility for it. The people who do may have an "advantage" because the value they place on the convenience of custom keys outweighs the minor (for them) hassle of configuring them. Similarly, those people who feel that downloading a hotkey customizer is too much of a hassle can simply not use it in the same way that people who didn't want to configure the gamei launcher wouldn't play gamei. WTF!?!?! People who play on gamei get to play with more skilled people! That gives them an advantage!!!! People are being forced to download unrelated software in order to improve at the game!!!?!!? Call it whatever you want, I'm not going to bother with semantics especially when people have their own definitions for everything--some people were even saying this isn't a third party program. When it comes down to it, all this program will do is allow people to configure controls in the same way that you can for similar games made by the same company, and many many other computer games. No big deal in my opinion, and it's nice to see someone release this when the company that developed the game won't ever do it. [/ ] | ||
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Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
hack lol, whatever, don't be so fucking paranoid all the time | ||
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Yang
Lithuania231 Posts
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Yang
Lithuania231 Posts
+ it would give to game more balance, because every race will play their best and hotkeys would not limit their actions. Now zerg imho has much better hotkey placement than terr. | ||
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
 ..he was using those examples to contrast starcraft and wc3.. | ||
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fender-pro
Estonia208 Posts
On April 28 2004 01:57 hasuwar wrote: Stimey is the only one who DOES understand what this program does.. ..he was using those examples to contrast starcraft and wc3.. Ofcourse HE does.. coz he shares YOUR opinion. | ||
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Amnesty
United States2054 Posts
If i remapped them for BW reasons, i wouldnt need to change any BW file. Secondly, some people think people will gain an advantage. It seems to me the people who are happy as clam with the defaults have an advantage over the people who find the defualts awkward as hell. Bw shouldnt be a dextarity contest. Thirdly, there are other ways through hardware people can gain an actual advantage. But because its hardware, its not a hack so you have to STFU and let them continue on. Drawing the line here, i just find it strange. And im not talking about the special SC keyboard either. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2609 Posts
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Ilintar
Poland794 Posts
As I pointed out, this argument is flawed. "blizzard didnt make this feature for sc." Blizzard didn't make this feature for W3 either, only when some other person did it and it got accepted did Blizzard integrate it in TFT. Hasuwar, your "modifying files" argument is totally wrong from the technical point of view and yet you're calling other people idiots. Installing mouse drivers is modifying system files too. Installing RemapKey or other keymapping utility that allows you to remap your keys (eg. have 8 9 0 instead of q w e) for BW modifies system files too. Does it have to modify SC files? One of the olders ways of disconnecting has to do with dropping your internet connection... it doesn't modify any SC files, yet is commonly regarded as abuse. And, as someone pointed out, people have been making total conversions / MOD's and Blizzard hasn't deemed them as a hack. People have been changing StarCraft sounds, Blizz even gave a utility to help them and it's not considered as hack, though you could argue it gives players an advantage if eg. the sound of burying lurkers would be much louder or simply different (a beep accompanying it). The world is not black and white, like someone said, there are shades of gray. And insulting other people just because they do not agree with you is not a sign of maturity. | ||
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IceLeY
Germany121 Posts
In the german version the commands in the starport menu 'build science vessel' and 'select waypoint' have the same key. | ||
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Piccolo
Chile621 Posts
I wouldn't use it, because i am already used to the standard, but i don't mind if my oponent use it, even if he raise his apm from 120 to 180... I DON'T care, I like my oponents to play as confortable as i feel, if they can be faster with another configuration... go for it! i don't mind... starcraft is a RTS... Strategy! not a DDR Machine where you have to be that fast... of corse speed will help you... so if you can be faster with another configuration... go for it, i don't mind... I don't think i can be faster with another key configuration... and if i could... i don't care. SC/BW it's a game... i don't care to lose, i'm not going to live of this, and if i lose, my pc it's not gonna explode. I hate when i beat some guy in Street Fighter and he blame the button configuration... so if you want to set your own... and that is going to raise your level, make you faster, make you accurate, please do it. This program will not just help to raise the level of multiplayer game, but also to help the game to stay alive a little longer, to make it more competitive, and to finish excuses like "i lost because the "P" for probe it's far away..." "I can't use my french keyboard", etc. So bring it on! | ||
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Resaca
Spain29 Posts
On April 27 2004 17:32 hasuwar wrote: Man, that makes perfect sense. Okkayyyy, durrrr, the program is not made by blizzard nor supported and it gives players an advantage. It edits starcraft files, but since it only edits them while the game isn't running, it's not a hack. OHHHH wait! This just in! If you hardcode maphack into the exe, it's legit! since a hack is only something that modifies the game while running! u have learn more about hacks and cheats then u dont say stupities. | ||
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Pob
880 Posts
From http://www.blizzard.com/inblizz/genfaq.shtml: How does Blizzard feel about StarCraft Total Conversions, or Diablo mods? We've seen some very polished and fun conversions for our games, and have no problems with total conversions, so long as they are for personal use and do not infringe our End User License Agreement included in our games, nor the rights of any other parties including copyrights, trademarks or other rights. If you have any other legal questions regarding Blizzard Entertainment or our products, please see our Legal FAQ at http://www.blizzard.com/legalfaq.shtml k.... yet they still closed down the warcraft 3 total conversion ? maybe they did cos it sucked so much... | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2609 Posts
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Hoops
417 Posts
Will it help someone in a game? Yes, as did people using an optical mouse when I had a broken ball mouse. Does it matter that it will effect lan play? I recall a poll on wgtour that showed something like 70% of wgtour players had never been to a lan, I'd have to double check to be sure about this. This tells me that most of us have no desire to ever play at a land, and essentially nobody here is ever going to make money playing bw. The 1% of TL that has made some amounts of money playing are not going to be suddenly raped by people who have modified keys, especially since this option has been available to the BW community for some time now. There is also a dossier on wgtour about how to change key configurations already. This just makes doing so easier. It has also been explained that most pro's do no use normal keyboards, so arguing from that stand point is completely flawed. Everyone wants to be the next boxer or nada or what ever it seems. Well if you do you'll never get there playing with a normal keyboard in the first place. This is a video game and most people play it for fun. Hacking defeats the nature of the game. Other hacks alter the actual game, or they effect your connections to bnet. These hacks effect your opponents enjoyment of the game. It is not particularly fun to expo and have an army ready to counter it, or have an unscouted drop find out that the enemy had his whole army ready to stop it. It's not fun to have an e-bay crush your buildings, or have an enemy who makes 50 cannons all on top of each other. Similarly many bugs in the game that were abused took the fun out of playing. Drone floating to islands in a zvz for example effects the nature of the game. Drop hackers are annoying and once again make playing bw less enjoyable others. In contrast this much like a bigger monitor, better mouse, faster/smaller keyboard, or say having a way to talk to your ally instead of typing improves your enjoyment of the game without effecting your enemy. Having a high speed connection helps improve your game because you can play on low latency and that makes your micro better. APM live could be considered a hack. BW Coach could be called a hack. Largo's op3 could be called a hack (new version that isn't sort of a MH). Reality is non of these take away from the enjoyment of the game by the other player and non give you some super human advantage. Everything that makes playing a little bit easier is NOT a bad thing. This game is not perfect. There is room for improvement, after all the game is 6 years old. The game has not seen any major changes to it like this since replays were added (and some of you are STILL complaining about that). Honestly go back to the original warcraft or something. You know I think patrol and attack move take skill out of the game. Units shouldn't attack anything unless you tell them to. That way everyone will have to micro manage every single aspect of the game. Perhaps workers shouldn't return to the building and it would be great if we had to micro everyone of them to the minerals and back to the main. | ||
Waxangel
United States33362 Posts
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
for those of you who think you would get to use your own computer at wcg, or any reputable offline event, grow a flower. if you think i said this hack (3rd party SOFTWARE used for convenience in-game playing easier/better the opponent will not have unless they use it) lets you use macros, please read any one of my posts more carefully before deciding to disagree with it. none of you have said shit to my arguments, despite i have pretty much answered all of yours multiple times. if you think this is not a hack simply because it lets you do what you could do in other games or "should be able to do" in sc or "already can do without using a hack", uh, those arguments are all completely unsound and i think ive already given counter-examples to disprove all of those logics so wtf.. go harvest some chicken. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2609 Posts
On April 28 2004 08:55 STIMEY d okgm fish wrote: there are different key configurations for other countries. there are ways to do this in windows. neither of those is hack. this program is. geniuses. there is a hack way to do this, and a non-hack way. also when you choose to use other country's keysz its not ideal, they all have tradeoffs. if you remap your keys with windows you have to reboot. for those of you who think you would get to use your own computer at wcg, or any reputable offline event, grow a flower. if you think i said this hack (3rd party SOFTWARE used for convenience in-game playing easier/better the opponent will not have unless they use it) lets you use macros, please read any one of my posts more carefully before deciding to disagree with it. none of you have said shit to my arguments, despite i have pretty much answered all of yours multiple times. if you think this is not a hack simply because it lets you do what you could do in other games or "should be able to do" in sc or "already can do without using a hack", uh, those arguments are all completely unsound and i think ive already given counter-examples to disprove all of those logics so wtf.. go harvest some chicken. According to your logic Notepad is a hack... That program has been out a good deal longer than starcraft. Your arguments doesn't hold up, let it go. | ||
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rplant
United States1178 Posts
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
if u use notepad to play sc, then.. wait. let me just stop right there wtf does notepad have to do with sc? notepad is 3rd party adding features to sc while u play? hhuh.. wait.. no uhm... notepad... | ||
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rplant
United States1178 Posts
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2609 Posts
On April 28 2004 09:06 STIMEY d okgm fish wrote: uh.. rplant. if you think my logic says notepad is a hack... u suck at thinking. if u use notepad to play sc, then.. wait. let me just stop right there wtf does notepad have to do with sc? notepad is 3rd party adding features to sc while u play? hhuh.. wait.. no uhm... notepad... Notepad = As a basic text editor could probably be used to change key config in patch_rt.mpq Starkey = Can be used to change key config in patch_rt.mpq Difference? It's a hell of a lot more work to use a basic kind of editior. Here's a link where you can edit them yourself, allthough it uses helpfull editing programs so it's easier. http://www.starcraftgamers.com/articles.php?i=a&id=1 So basically, this program does the same thing as other editing tools, only it automates the difficult parts for you. If your really good at programing you can probably do this with almost no tools, using Notepad as an editor. A somewhat computer literate person can probably do it with the help of that guide and the avalible editing tools. Anyone can do it with keycraft. But it's still the same thing. | ||
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
lasgo says its not just simple editing a file tho. hm. | ||
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Resaca
Spain29 Posts
Then the question is : is keycraft a cheat? NO , it is a utility for configure a program ,much programs have utilities for make it better but no all are of program creator . u can use in lan tournament ? yes ,i go with my own patch_rt.mpq and locall.dll files and i put it in starcraft directory then i have configured starcraft for my ,other ppl install and configure u mouse ,keyboard,install u version starcraft why cant i put my own configuration ? i have played lan tournaments in Spain and in any i have used my own keys in other i played with BW spanish keys in other with BW england keys ,result? same position in all tournaments if u think u will win with keycraft u are wrong it only is a very little help ,if u think u will do a lot of apm more u wrong u will do 10-12 apm more , starcraft is a strategy game NO apm skill game . Then what is problem? problem is that anyone make a program for do it easy only by hobby . Lasgo and ashur want to do it ,why stupid child put problems ? all ppl have to thank they by u work and dont say stupidities . I dont understand why ppl lost time to do things for this stupid community ,always problems never thanks  (((((( | ||
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koehli
Germany350 Posts
On April 28 2004 08:55 STIMEY d okgm fish wrote: use other country's keysz its not ideal, they all have tradeoffs. if you remap your keys with windows you have to reboot. Can you be my "C0mPuT0rZZZ !!!!11!!1!" teacher please? If you wouldn't have told me, I would have just done without reboot, which is obviously bad manners.... Thanks for spreading your wisdom over the internet it's always good to listen to people who really know what they're talking about. | ||
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Yang
Lithuania231 Posts
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personaljesus
Canada121 Posts
Navigating the keyboard is not part of bw "skill" no matter what people say. That's not memorizing hotkeys, it's having to use cumbersome hotkeys that aren't in ideal positions for everybody. Why not let everyone choose what hotkey they want to use for something? Every game you play these days you customize the keys for. Does everyone in the world hack at counter-strike because they have slightly different keys than you? Granted, this is a program not sanctioned by blizzard to do that, but it still does the same thing, and the only reason you can't do it in SC is because it's so old and bliz doesn't care about it anymore. anyone who thinks this is a hack is an anal moron. Good work lasgo | ||
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
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Hoops
417 Posts
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lastas
Sweden1219 Posts
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Magalhas
Portugal126 Posts
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Petza_Gr
Greece299 Posts
he only moans says "idiot" and how noone understands him...wow! take a rest man.. Its not a fucking hack.. As twisted said noone good at this game will alter his/her keys anyway..stop moaning.. | ||
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EAGER-beaver
Canada2799 Posts
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
Btw im playing this game for 6 years and im very used to play w/ the default keys, but I would for sure for your information to use this starkey cause having P for Probe or Pylon is really annoying... Even if i'm used to i don't see why i wouldn't change it since it could help me a lil faster than before. And according to all litles helps it could improves ur style a lot. Like i said before, editing ur keys is just professionnal. Cheat or not it's a thing that everbody should have just because of the little help it gives. Stimey : U means that changing something in starcraft is a hack and not a cheat (means that it helps a litle ur "skills") ? If yes then i'm agree with you. | ||
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Hoops
417 Posts
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0wNaG3
Canada95 Posts
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Maksim
United States22 Posts
BAN | ||
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NoNameLoser
United States1508 Posts
On April 28 2004 21:11 Maksim wrote: HACK BAN i couldn agree more,  | ||
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
[/satan] | ||
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Esports World Cup
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EPT
