Ever since the SC2Beta came out, I'm feeling quite uneasy. At first I was curious what the game was like and above all else, whether it was fun to play or not. I'm pretty sure most of us approached the game exactly the same way, apart from a significant group of high skill players, which from day one look at StarCraft 2 as an opportunity for a progaming career. Pretty fast, it became clear to me that the game is indeed quite well thought out, and as a pure entertainment value, its arguably as good as BroodWar. Hearing the opinion of the community or not, Blizzard will get the game right eventually.
With the progress of the beta, and the launch date of the game being announced, the focus to StarCraft 2 as a game, purely as a product designed for entertainment, shifted to StarCraft 2 - The ESPORT. Reading the latest developments of the KeSPA - Blizzard negotiations, as well as news regarding the match-fixing scandal made me suddenly realize that "shit got serious". At some point of time StarCraft:BroodWar stopped being a game, it just lost the initial purpose of its creating and became a sport, watched and enjoyed by many around the world, a sport that was able to draw the attention of sponsors and media companies. The rapid development of the professional StarCraft scene provoked many questions, but no one really paid enough attention to the issues because for 10 years all went so smoothly, that just now, with StarCraft 2 around the corner, many things became obvious :
The organization that was assembled "to run" esports in Korea, to set the regulations and define rules was not mature enough to do its job. The constant misunderstanding between KeSPA, the broadcaster companies and the fans was in the end used by Blizzard to their greatest benefit. It became clear that KeSPA doesn't have the public respect and the partners to hold things in a tight grip. Furthermore KeSPA's influence on the happening in the scene became extremely questionable. With the raging match-fixing scandal, fundamental flaws in the system, that KeSPA represents, were exposed. The lack of rules regarding the relationship between the teams and the sponsors with the players is obvious. It certainly isn't the main reason for the whole scandal, but it compromised KeSPA in its main goal- to protect the most valuable and vulnerable part of the esports - the players. KeSPA's effort to establish strict rules, just caused some drama, confusion and fun within the community (remember the "ppp" and "a" ?) . But the big failure of KeSPA in this case is actually the image the organization built for itself in the eyes of the fans. By acting inadequate and incompetent in a couple of key moments, KeSPA lost the support of the fans.
Another big problem for years is the so called KeSPA ranking. Put the weird formula for its calculation aside, the ranking itself is completely pointless. There is no other individual sport, where the personal ranking system, doesn't have any influence on the structure of the tournaments, sanctioned by it. In other words, the KeSPA ranking doesn't reward, or protect the best players, it just represent statistical evidence of good performance. MBC's effort to implement the ranking in the MSL came too little too late. Not only that but the change was accepted rather negative from the community. The only stage of OSL where the ranking is of some use are the prelims. Does it really matter if Jaedong is getting a BYE in the first round? With or without the ranking, things were basically going to be the same, but the benefits of useful and respected ranking system are proven already many times - motivation for the players, balanced distribution of the players in the tournament brackets. Again, by presenting and supporting a useless official ranking system, KeSPA is showing for many years, that it has no influence on the tournaments it was supposed to run.
For 10 years, the development of the professional StarCraft scene in Korea was driven by tryouts and failures. The structure of the two individual leagues, as well as the Proleague was constantly changed, and every years cycle consisted of crowning the champion and searching a sponsor for the next season. Although the leagues got the interest of constant partners like Shinhan Bank and Ever, the two broadcasting companies were not able to cooperate with each other and with KeSPA for a long period of time, which disturbed the healthy growth of professional StarCraft. The latest prove for that was MBC's struggle to find a sponsor for the MSL. And while MBC tend to fail more than OGN by hosting the tournaments, the OSL organizers showed many times in the past, they have no idea where esports must go. Its a well known fact, that historically, most of the dominant players were able to perform more consistently in the MSL, but failed to defend their championship in the OSL. Kim Carrier's curse is a stupid excuse - the main reason was that OGN changed the format of the tournament almost every season. The only slight effort in some long term thinking was the introduction of the Golden Mouse and shortly after the Golden Badge. Lets not forget the Golden Mouse was originally designed to just be the highlight of Boxers career, but as we all know, he never won that 3rd OSL. Summed up, everything only shows that people involved in esports just let things happen, instead of having a long term plan about the development of the scene. StarCraft 2 totally caught the broadcaster companies with their pants down.
Indeed for 10 years, the scene underwent a really fast paced evolution, but the fans of StarCraft are changing their mindset with it as well. The regular spectators of nowadays, which are enjoying the last years of professional SC:BW are going to have many similarities with the people who are going to follow StarCraft 2 in the years to come. But initially, the Broodwar scene accumulated a lot of spectators for a very different reason, a reason that wont exist when SC2 comes out - it was simply a very fun game, the all seriousness of being an esport wasn't even existing by that time. For sure the level of play was much below today's standards, but there was plenty of room for creativity, which made the whole progress of each game more or less unpredictable. Of course, SC2 being a completely different game, wont have the same theory database and there will be indeed some space for creativity, but the approach to the game and its technical features will speed up the evolution of the metagame, compared to SC:BW, dramatically. Having that said, from day one SC2 will produce highly skilled players, which will be entirely different from the guys, who played in space suits 10 years ago. But with different type of players, we have different type of fans. The "values" of StarCraft have changed, with them the things the regular fan appreciates, as well.
If you think this game is terrible, you must've start watching StarCraft around Batoo OSL
The problem is that fans tend to completely disregard the careers and the contributions of the "old-school" players, by comparing their absolute skill to the progamers of today. StarCraft is not a sport of absolute skill, being the complex game that it is, the changes in the metagame, as well as deeper and more common knowledge of the build order theory, caused a constant evolution of the level of play. If you line up Capablanca in his best days against some mid-tear 2600ish GM of today, the great José Raúl is gonna get destroyed - he will see moves that he will barely understand, moves that the regular modern day Grand Master just memorizes from the computer analysis. Because of the replays, the same thing happened with StarCraft, but with chess the process took more than 80 years.
That being said, the last generation of progamers just replicate in their playing style whats proven by the theory to be the best. They are completely robotic, and it should come as no surprise that the players with the deepest understanding about the game are from the old-school. Nothing from what I've said in the last two paragraph is new, but my point is that the short-term memory of fans, made us forget what made SC:BW so special, and what actually caused the being of esports. If I have to object the statement from the latest OSL article, I would say yet again, that EffOrt created no legacy - he is the legacy himself. As a player he is a product 10 years long refinement,and as fans who are prizing the amazing skills of Jaedong and Flash, we should never forget the godfathers, all the 1.00 players that pioneered the professional gaming.
No matter how much we complain about the current Blizzard policy, they will most like not going to change the direction they took. The fact of the matter is that Blizzard realized as well, that their original creation, StarCraft: Broodwar stopped being simply a game at some point and developed to esports. Now they just want to put their hands in the honey pot of broadcasting rights and ads money as well. All 3 aspects I've pointed out - the incompetence of KeSPA, the bad coordination of the broadcasters and the short-term memory of the fans, make esports fragile. Esports are a serious thing, being fans of starcraft we are serious as well - arguing about PvZ, TvZ and map imbalance all the time. But with SC2 around the corner and as customers of Blizzards product, we have something to remember - what made SC:BW so great.
I'm going to bump this. Will make a substantial comment with a response to my thread after I find some time. People should read this, and there is good discussion to be found from here.
I first heard about the "mystical" Korean gods of starcraft maybe 8 years ago in middle school, with nothing to fill that void in my head but ideas and imagination. It was not 6 months ago that i heard about starcraft 2, and watched a battle report by the testers.
This changed everything.
What used to be a game of massing carriers and microing 50 seige tanks at a time on fastest became a real battle. A war of minds in the form of a computer game. Since that moment of seeing the infinitely deeper knowledge and skill of starcraft than I ever thought possible, I just thought, "I want this". I bought a computer a few months ago specifically for SC2, and after hours of watching old korean pro vids on youtube and learning the names of the Korean gods such as Boxer, I felt I was prepared to take SC2 and do just as Boxer or any great pro has done. I figured that SC2 coming out seemed like a real chance to jump in the rushing river of being pro at the game, as I had little interest in starting SC1 from scratch and try to get good that way.
So, my question, is what defines a "programmer"? I've always thought programmers do programming and stuff, write code rather than just play the game. Is this true? I've heard so many references to "this or that programmer", when all they seem to be are pros at starcraft.
i think there's quite a bit of speculation in the article and to explain these things you must go a bit deeper (imo)... If sc2 will be the future, who knows... i certainly hope not -_-
So, my question, is what defines a "programmer"? I've always thought programmers do programming and stuff, write code rather than just play the game. Is this true? I've heard so many references to "this or that programmer", when all they seem to be are pros at starcraft.
Wait a sec here, are you mistaking "P_R_O_G_R_A_M_M_E_R" for "P_R_O_G_A_M_E_R"?
So, my question, is what defines a "programmer"? I've always thought programmers do programming and stuff, write code rather than just play the game. Is this true? I've heard so many references to "this or that programmer", when all they seem to be are pros at starcraft.
Progamer (professional gamer) plays a game for living. The game is his profession.
Programmer creates programs and writes code etc. for a living.
Two quite different things.
If sc2 will be the future, who knows... i certainly hope not -_-
BW has already reached its peak and had its time, there's no way BW would've ever become anything bigger. It's about time we move on to a game that can help esports become a lot bigger and not just in Korea.
On June 01 2010 05:51 disciple wrote: That being said, the last generation of progamers just replicate in their playing style whats proven by the theory to be the best. They are completely robotic, and it should come as no surprise that the players with the deepest understanding about the game are from the old-school.
The latest generation has certainly built on what has come before. But there is no way in hell that Flash's understanding of the game is shallower than Boxer's or Stork's is shallower than Garimto's.
On June 03 2010 17:00 Puosu wrote: BW has already reached its peak and had its time, there's no way BW would've ever become anything bigger. It's about time we move on to a game that can help esports become a lot bigger and not just in Korea.
Well, I'm perfectly fine with MSL, OSL and Proleague. So it doesn't have to become bigger. If ->you<- want to move on, do so, but don't speak for other people.
The way you see esports in Korea is to say the least : quite weird.
Especially the starcraft analysis and the player's performances.
I would say, nobody but pro gamers are qualified to actually give a proper definition of what they're doing.
Go tell flash he's a robot, it'll take him 30 seconds to prove you he isn't.
Not to mention the title "no concept for the future", just proves how little you know on how all these things are run over there.
It's not as easy as you make it sound. Making a TV programm is much more complicated than you think.
Actually, I challenge you to find me a single TV programm in the rest of the world that comes any close to what OGN or MBC are doing. Quality and content wise.
EDIT : What many fail to realise or even attempt to consider, is that there maybe is a chance Pro gaming won't evolve into anything bigger than what has been done in Korea. Mainly because it's about video games.
On June 03 2010 18:02 Boonbag wrote: EDIT : What many fail to realise or even attempt to consider, is that there maybe is a chance Pro gaming won't evolve into anything bigger than what has been done in Korea. Mainly because it's about video games.
You people are all so optimistic.
What point are you trying to make here? So what if it's about video games? A hundred and fifty years ago, football (Americans, read: soccer) was all about kicking a ball around. That didn't stop it from becoming an enormous worldwide phenomenon that it is today, with millions of spectators and superstars.
We aren't being optimistic, we just recognise the fact that as with all things historically, the prejudice that video games are childish and silly will eventually fall apart. Infact, one could argue that the process is occuring with video games much more quickly then in other cases. Nowadays, gaming is a lot more mainstream then it was 10 years ago.
So I see no reason why e-Sports can't become bigger then what it currently is in Korea. It can, but it will take some time and willpower to make that a reality.
On June 03 2010 18:02 Boonbag wrote: EDIT : What many fail to realise or even attempt to consider, is that there maybe is a chance Pro gaming won't evolve into anything bigger than what has been done in Korea. Mainly because it's about video games.
You people are all so optimistic.
What point are you trying to make here? So what if it's about video games? A hundred and fifty years ago, football (Americans, read: soccer) was all about kicking a ball around. That didn't stop it from becoming an enormous worldwide phenomenon that it is today, with millions of spectators and superstars.
We aren't being optimistic, we just recognise the fact that as with all things historically, the prejudice that video games are childish and silly will eventually fall apart. Infact, one could argue that the process is occuring with video games much more quickly then in other cases. Nowadays, gaming is a lot more mainstream then it was 10 years ago.
So I see no reason why e-Sports can't become bigger then what it currently is in Korea. It can, but it will take some time and willpower to make that a reality.
Actually, I disagree. The industry is making much more money as a form of entertainement. This has nothing to do with playing games beeing sports.
The very fact you see things this way may doom esports.
On June 03 2010 18:02 Boonbag wrote: I almost disagree entirely with the article.
The way you see esports in Korea is to say the least : quite weird.
Especially the starcraft analysis and the player's performances.
I would say, nobody but pro gamers are qualified to actually give a proper definition of what they're doing.
Go tell flash he's a robot, it'll take him 30 seconds to prove you he isn't.
Not to mention the title "no concept for the future", just proves how little you know on how all these things are run over there.
It's not as easy as you make it sound. Making a TV programm is much more complicated than you think.
Actually, I challenge you to find me a single TV programm in the rest of the world that comes any close to what OGN or MBC are doing. Quality and content wise.
EDIT : What many fail to realise or even attempt to consider, is that there maybe is a chance Pro gaming won't evolve into anything bigger than what has been done in Korea. Mainly because it's about video games.
You people are all so optimistic.
you are making no point. If you are going to object my "no concept for the future statement" at least present some evidence, and not just say " you have no idea". Your challenge is completely pointless, since content wise OGN and MBC are offering a unique product. If there's no one else doing it, it doesnt mean they are doing it right
On June 03 2010 18:02 Boonbag wrote: I almost disagree entirely with the article.
The way you see esports in Korea is to say the least : quite weird.
Especially the starcraft analysis and the player's performances.
I would say, nobody but pro gamers are qualified to actually give a proper definition of what they're doing.
Go tell flash he's a robot, it'll take him 30 seconds to prove you he isn't.
Not to mention the title "no concept for the future", just proves how little you know on how all these things are run over there.
It's not as easy as you make it sound. Making a TV programm is much more complicated than you think.
Actually, I challenge you to find me a single TV programm in the rest of the world that comes any close to what OGN or MBC are doing. Quality and content wise.
EDIT : What many fail to realise or even attempt to consider, is that there maybe is a chance Pro gaming won't evolve into anything bigger than what has been done in Korea. Mainly because it's about video games.
You people are all so optimistic.
you are making no point. If you are going to object my "no concept for the future statement" at least present some evidence, and not just say " you have no idea". Your challenge is completely pointless, since content wise OGN and MBC are offering a unique product. If there's no one else doing it, it doesnt mean they are doing it right
That's preciesly where you're wrong, the very fact they're doing it and nobody else should give you a few hints.
I'm giving you here first hand information, because back then, for any producer getting involved into the business, it beeing, gameq, ogn, whoever, it was headache as to how make all these things happen.
It's not about doing it better than them (I bet you my right arm you won't see anything coming close to OGN / MBC quality wise in the next 10 years), its the fact nobody else wants to.
Nobody but Korea and a bunch of westerner care about esports.
I'm making a point beeing that reading your article, cleary shows you have no idea how tv shows are beeing produced.
That is all. Now believe youre right all you want, that won't help esports.
All the mistakes you're pointing out are mistakes that come from T R Y I N G.
These mistakes are normal. I mean, dude, you're argument sounds like it comes from the mouth of a 10 years old :
"duh duh, they made mistakes they fail and suck for even trying !"
On June 03 2010 17:00 Puosu wrote: BW has already reached its peak and had its time, there's no way BW would've ever become anything bigger. It's about time we move on to a game that can help esports become a lot bigger and not just in Korea.
Well, I'm perfectly fine with MSL, OSL and Proleague. So it doesn't have to become bigger. If ->you<- want to move on, do so, but don't speak for other people.
Yeah if things get bigger or stay as they are, does it matter... As long as things don't die completely it doesn't really bother me at all.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i47.tinypic.com/33fe061.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i45.tinypic.com/2vb7djc.jpg)
The organization that was assembled "to run" esports in Korea, to set the regulations and define rules was not mature enough to do its job. The constant misunderstanding between KeSPA, the broadcaster companies and the fans was in the end used by Blizzard to their greatest benefit. It became clear that KeSPA doesn't have the public respect and the partners to hold things in a tight grip. Furthermore KeSPA's influence on the happening in the scene became extremely questionable. With the raging match-fixing scandal, fundamental flaws in the system, that KeSPA represents, were exposed. The lack of rules regarding the relationship between the teams and the sponsors with the players is obvious. It certainly isn't the main reason for the whole scandal, but it compromised KeSPA in its main goal- to protect the most valuable and vulnerable part of the esports - the players. KeSPA's effort to establish strict rules, just caused some drama, confusion and fun within the community (remember the "ppp" and "a" ?) . But the big failure of KeSPA in this case is actually the image the organization built for itself in the eyes of the fans. By acting inadequate and incompetent in a couple of key moments, KeSPA lost the support of the fans. ![[image loading]](http://i46.tinypic.com/2w65cuw.jpg)
For 10 years, the development of the professional StarCraft scene in Korea was driven by tryouts and failures. The structure of the two individual leagues, as well as the Proleague was constantly changed, and every years cycle consisted of crowning the champion and searching a sponsor for the next season. Although the leagues got the interest of constant partners like Shinhan Bank and Ever, the two broadcasting companies were not able to cooperate with each other and with KeSPA for a long period of time, which disturbed the healthy growth of professional StarCraft. The latest prove for that was MBC's struggle to find a sponsor for the MSL. And while MBC tend to fail more than OGN by hosting the tournaments, the OSL organizers showed many times in the past, they have no idea where esports must go. Its a well known fact, that historically, most of the dominant players were able to perform more consistently in the MSL, but failed to defend their championship in the OSL. Kim Carrier's curse is a stupid excuse - the main reason was that OGN changed the format of the tournament almost every season. The only slight effort in some long term thinking was the introduction of the Golden Mouse and shortly after the Golden Badge. Lets not forget the Golden Mouse was originally designed to just be the highlight of Boxers career, but as we all know, he never won that 3rd OSL. Summed up, everything only shows that people involved in esports just let things happen, instead of having a long term plan about the development of the scene. StarCraft 2 totally caught the broadcaster companies with their pants down.![[image loading]](http://i50.tinypic.com/534xeo.jpg)
Indeed for 10 years, the scene underwent a really fast paced evolution, but the fans of StarCraft are changing their mindset with it as well. The regular spectators of nowadays, which are enjoying the last years of professional SC:BW are going to have many similarities with the people who are going to follow StarCraft 2 in the years to come. But initially, the Broodwar scene accumulated a lot of spectators for a very different reason, a reason that wont exist when SC2 comes out - it was simply a very fun game, the all seriousness of being an esport wasn't even existing by that time. For sure the level of play was much below today's standards, but there was plenty of room for creativity, which made the whole progress of each game more or less unpredictable. Of course, SC2 being a completely different game, wont have the same theory database and there will be indeed some space for creativity, but the approach to the game and its technical features will speed up the evolution of the metagame, compared to SC:BW, dramatically. Having that said, from day one SC2 will produce highly skilled players, which will be entirely different from the guys, who played in space suits 10 years ago. But with different type of players, we have different type of fans. The "values" of StarCraft have changed, with them the things the regular fan appreciates, as well. 
