• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:31
CEST 08:31
KST 15:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week0[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation13$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced6Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles6[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China9Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL66
StarCraft 2
General
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation RSL Season 1 - Final Week The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation TL Team Map Contest #4: Winners Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles
Tourneys
$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [G] Progamer Settings ASL20 Preliminary Maps [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Positive Thoughts on Setting Up a Dual-Caliber FX
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Summer Games Done Quick 2025! US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 587 users

[T] The Reality of Progaming - Page 2

Forum Index > BW General
251 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 11 12 13 Next All
Slunk
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany768 Posts
May 18 2010 21:21 GMT
#21
The title looked like a Rekrul thread.
Nice read though.
Yggdrasil Leaf
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
221 Posts
May 18 2010 21:24 GMT
#22
Gloomy times
"A person hears only what they understand" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
SagaZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
France3460 Posts
May 18 2010 21:24 GMT
#23
thks for the translation~
B teamers and practice partners have such a dificult live O.o
and kespa is in fact the organization of the sponsors... I didn't knew that, that explain alot of their positions ...
I really hope conditions change, more so if sc2 becames popular in korea
Be nice, buy wards and don't feed double buff.
Inkblood
Profile Joined February 2010
United States463 Posts
May 18 2010 21:28 GMT
#24
Thank you for the translation. Puts everything under a new light. Even if you already knew that most progamers weren't payed much of anything, the way the facts are laid out in this article is an eye opener.
kerpal
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom2695 Posts
May 18 2010 21:30 GMT
#25
wow.. powerful stuff. thanks.
Gann1
Profile Joined July 2009
United States1575 Posts
May 18 2010 21:33 GMT
#26
On May 19 2010 06:09 samachking wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2010 06:00 l10f wrote:
On May 19 2010 05:57 samachking wrote:
Thanks for the translation of the huge article. I enjoyed reading it. This is probably Savior I presume?


I think it's safe to assume the progamer "A" wasn't part of the incident. Who knows.


Well, its a team that has players with salaries above 200k USD, so A is from SKT/KTF or CJ I presume. + The early conditions resemble CJ's early days as GO.

I always thought this was a pretty crappy job for the average progamer by the amount of work/payoff involved, but this puts the pay more into perspective.

Could also be STX, they have some high salaried players and were the last team to get a sponsorship if I remember correctly.
I drop suckas like Plinko
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
May 18 2010 21:35 GMT
#27
Thanks for the translation, elton f ftw

I think a large part of the problem is that there is really no money streaming in except from the Sponsors. So these large corporations control the whole shebang, any match is just a huge advertisement in their eyes. They don't care about any of the players, as long as they make their commercials super exciting so tons of people will watch. Really, I don't think it would be difficult to attract the players away from KeSPA for SCII if Blizzard wanted to create a new system. The problem would be in getting any sort of support for it, unless it just ends up being the exact same thing- but controlled by Blizzard (which I would hope not to see). A different model needs to be created that isn't completely reliant upon the sponsors.
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
firebound12
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada274 Posts
May 18 2010 21:35 GMT
#28
wow.... this is sad Now I respect more the progamers who have to go through all that...

Will Blizzard fix those stuff in SCII? Is it why ultimately Kespa doesn't want to let go of the control over their players/matches?
violett
Profile Joined July 2007
Germany143 Posts
May 18 2010 22:05 GMT
#29
thx for translation, was a nice read.
even if it was already known, its interesting to hear it from a progamers perspective himself.
Piste
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
6174 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-18 23:09:56
May 18 2010 22:46 GMT
#30
This changes nothing. Those match fixing actions were illegal and killed e-sports for me. it's a choice to become a progamer, it's NOT a MUST.

edit: and savior doesn't need rolex's or 500$ sneakers.
Nuttyguy
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom1526 Posts
May 18 2010 22:46 GMT
#31
ty for the translation
this is reality, the truth hurts. -_-
Uthgar
Profile Joined March 2010
United States21 Posts
May 18 2010 22:59 GMT
#32
I think the sad truth here is that e-sports needs to become more like real sports in terms of its professionalism and business model. If it costs money to watch games live, you can bet people will pay, just like any other sport. Its so silly that people think that since so many kids want to be progamers, it makes them expendable. How many kids want to be the next Kobe or Lebron?
KristianJS
Profile Joined October 2009
2107 Posts
May 18 2010 23:09 GMT
#33
Great article, thanks for translation. e-sports in Korea is a shiny apple which is rotten on the inside it seems =(

I think the whole thing needs to be restructured. Reduce the number of games and start charging money for games instead. Inject more money into the system, give the players more breaks. And then the players need a Union!
You need to be 100% behind someone before you can stab them in the back
lone_hydra
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada1460 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-18 23:27:57
May 18 2010 23:27 GMT
#34
On May 19 2010 06:10 Xxio wrote:
I liked the comparison between a progamer's replay, or game, and a musician's composition.
I think things will change with SCII, unless KeSPA makes changes, other tournaments and organizations will be more than enough of an incentive to leave them.


Blizzard doesn't even want kespa to be apart of SC2 unless they dish out the doe. Knowing how greedy kespa is, the chance of them actually paying is slim to none. If progaming is to continue with SC2, then either kespa and sponsers need to stop being cheap bastards, or a new organization+sponsors step up, or no Korean SC2 progamming (teams and what not) save the odd tournament.
Fav Gamers: 2)Stork 5)Bisu
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
May 18 2010 23:31 GMT
#35
Sigh, thanks for this l10f.
Even back when the allegations and accusations were being made, people were bringing this up. It's nice that there's now another side to this sad, sad story.

I'm sorry for you, Mr. A :<
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
PanzerDragoon
Profile Joined March 2010
United States822 Posts
May 18 2010 23:41 GMT
#36
Great article



They desperately need bargaining power. What Kespa and the powerful Korean corporations behind it are doing is basically exploitation, pure and simple.

Of course corrupt companies like Samsung are never going to agree to something that hurts their bottom line, and they'll just buy off any politicians that would make such a push (or just use their capital to bury and discredit them). So the only real hope is that Blizzard basically crushes Kespa, and then they can have some sort of progamers union with fair wages, better contract/free agency rules, and some sort of forced practice maximum. And maybe an actual season, like other sports.

Thats not very likely to happen.
Setz3R
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States455 Posts
May 18 2010 23:56 GMT
#37
Hopefully everyone has seconds thoughts about the recent goings now. I really feel for pro gamers it really sucks that doing something that you LOVE for a living hurts this much for them .
twitch.tv/setz3r
guii
Profile Joined December 2009
Brazil31 Posts
May 19 2010 00:07 GMT
#38
Great Article! Congratz.

Well, I'm feeling kinda bad right now. I always says to my friends "Wouldn't be cool, get payed for play?!", but I never though it was like that.
I mean, I knew progammers trained about 10h ou more/day, but, lose just 1 day to see a concert and being punished going back to B-Team?! That was BS!

Now, i know why those progammers accepted losing on purpose. And now, I'm feeling bad for saying bad stuff to sAviOr.. Indeed sad story..

Altough it's lots of fun watching progammers play, the story behind the cameras it's... sad.

(..and sorry for my bad english)
Slow Motion
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6960 Posts
May 19 2010 00:18 GMT
#39
If you love the game so much, then why throw matches? Yes, I respect progamers who sacrificed to do something they love. But throwing matches for money is the opposite of that. If you love money more than the game, then you should have stayed in school. Otherwise, if you truly love the game as much as someone like Boxer, then you would never do anything dirty to compromise it.

I feel that many of these kids, like the people who go to Hollywood in hopes of making it big, aren't as much in love with acting or Starcraft as much as they are with the lifestyle and fame they associate with the industry. In short, this article makes me sympathetic to the conditions of progamers, but I still feel the utmost contempt for the cheaters.

As an aside, obviously we derive great entertainment from watching these kids play BW, but maybe the government should be stepping in and banning conditions where kids are stuck in a room playing video games all day every day. Maybe 16 year old reflexes and dexterity plus hours of hard practice is what necessary for us to see the most amazing Starcraft games, but as the situation is right now it just isn't worth it. These practice partners are going to be going into the workforce with poor education and vocational skills because they made a shortsighted decision as kids to be a progamer.
ohN
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States1075 Posts
May 19 2010 00:23 GMT
#40
Thanks for the translation.
Maybe if it was harder to get a programer license the current ones could get better treatment?
There's like 20ish people per team * 12 teams, thats a lot of money that needs to come from somewhere.
Maybe if each team had like 6-8 people max, living conditions would be much better?

In non-korean countries most programing "teams" are like 6-8 per game. Even less for some other and its only so many because alot of the games are like 5v5 (DotA, CS). SC is 1v1 and yet teams have like 20+ people?.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 11 12 13 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 29m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 241
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 300
Noble 117
PianO 104
Bale 23
JulyZerg 16
Dota 2
ODPixel211
NeuroSwarm94
League of Legends
JimRising 714
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor106
Other Games
summit1g8818
Stewie2K792
shahzam739
monkeys_forever422
SortOf65
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick38137
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH361
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• tankgirl 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota250
League of Legends
• Lourlo1505
• Stunt547
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
3h 29m
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
OSC
6h 29m
Replay Cast
17h 29m
RSL Revival
1d 3h
Classic vs Cure
FEL
1d 9h
OSC
1d 13h
RSL Revival
2 days
FEL
2 days
FEL
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
FEL
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-07-07
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.